Now I Know How Christians Feel

[NLT]

When they are mocked for their religious beliefs.

Most of you know that I am a Muslim. I am a non practicing Muslim, and am not majorly devout, however, I have held my faith for a good 6 years now.

In my city, the council passed a motion to build a mosque, which will accommodate the Muslims in the city, who currently have to cram into a tiny little room that the university has kindly allowed them use of when they wish to pray.

On Saturday, there was a rally against this proposed mosque, and a counter rally in support of it. I attended the counter rally, and was horrified by the hatred shown toward those who just want to allow Muslims their own special place of worship.

Back at work, I discovered that my 'friends', who were also very much opposed to the mosque, bitching and complaining that 'those people want to take over the world', and 'they messed up their own country, now they want to screw up ours', and just making jokes about how when the mosque is built, we won't be allowed to serve bacon anymore.

As well as questioning why I wanted the mosque built (none of their business), their attitude toward Muslims appalled me. They don't know that while they make fun of Muslims, they are actually making fun of me. When they say they don't want Muslims in the city, does that mean they wouldn't want me, someone who has lived here for all my 32 years?

As someone who is too scared to openly show my faith, or even learn more about it for fear my faith will be discovered by those who will mock it, I can certainly understand how Christians feel when they are jeered and mocked for their beliefs.
While most of the so called Christians who attended the rally on Saturday are certainly not Christians (Jesus would be appalled at their hatred), there are many who have shown that they are ready to welcome in people of all faiths, which is pleasing - its a lot of loud mouthed fools that just make it so hard for me to feel welcome.

Today I have never felt so rejected and unwanted. I cannot imagine what Christians have had to deal with when they cop shit from atheists.

How do you guys manage to deal with the hatred?

so you can always cut off a head or two in protest

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Quick question

If you're Orthodox doesn't that mean you follow Scripture rather literally?

Because even Jesus had to be baptized.

Are we somehow exempt while He wasn't? Wouldn't that put us above Him?

I was baptized as a child. All Greek Orthodox children are at a very young age.

You are so precious. Sometimes I wonder if you know how much God loves you. You are just such a unique person, Sealy! When you read the story about John the Baptist calling the people to come and repent of their sins and be baptized do you think about how it would be impossible for a baby to repent or be baptized according to Scripture? What would be the purpose when as a baby had you died you would immediately have been with God, Sealy? God does not ask babies to repent but those of the age of reason - who know the difference between right and wrong. Does that make sense? With that said, it would be right for you to be baptized and know what you are doing when you receive forgiveness for your sins and accept Jesus as your Savior. I didn't get baptized right away - it was some months later I believe.

Us Greek Orthodox don't believe you have to go through the baptism ceremony again. To be Born Again as an adult just means the day you come to believe/accept/follow Jesus on your own. Is it really mandatory that I go through the ritual at a church or in front of another holy man? I think not.

Anyways doesn't matter because I wiped out my baptism by becoming an atheist. Last time I watched a baptism the priest said 5 times to the god father, "do you renounce satan?" and inside I was laughing because I thought, "what if that was me up there? What would I say to him? Would I say I do, or would I start an argument with him and say, "well actually I don't believe in Satan". lol

You do not have to be baptized in a church! You could be baptized in the Jordan river! In a swimming pool, in your local lake! A Christian brother baptized me in a lake here locally as I was rededicating my life to God in a deeper walk and I wanted to be baptized again.

OMG do you know my brother just bought 60 acres and it backs up to the East Jordan River up north Michigan? Funny you said the Jordan river. LOL. Should I have him dunk me in it?

By the way, his kids ask me why I don't go to church. I don't have the heart to tell them I don't believe. That's not my place. Plus my brother would probably get PISSED!

P.S. I don't think you need to be dunked at all. That's just a ritual men made up. Men need rituals. Ceremony. It's part of the show. But back when I believed, I believed anyone could accept the lord in their heart and that's it. No church, no priest needed.

Turns out no god is needed either. Go figure. LOL.

The property sounds wonderful, Sealy. Children love living near a river so they can fish, swim, play. I'm happy for your brother!

 

[emilynghiem]

I go by the Bible and what it tells me, Emily. Thank you.

I go by where we agree in Christ which includes the Bible but also
includes others who don't necessarily speak that language.

As long as we stay reconciled in Christ, then God's truth is established among us.
You can check that against the Bible.
I also check any conflict that comes up, make sure it is resolved in full,
so that the truth will come out of the process. Thank you Jeremiah

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I go by the Bible and what it tells me, Emily. Thank you.

I go by where we agree in Christ which includes the Bible but also
includes others who don't necessarily speak that language.

As long as we stay reconciled in Christ, then God's truth is established among us.
You can check that against the Bible.
I also check any conflict that comes up, make sure it is resolved in full,
so that the truth will come out of the process. Thank you Jeremiah

Compare Scripture with Scripture. False doctrines, like false witnesses, do not agree among themselves. William Gurnall said that. Thank God for wise servants of God that can tell it like it is and expose the lies by stating the truth so splendidly!

 

[emilynghiem]

Question to the Born Again Christians -

If there's one thing I can't stand is born agains. I credit them for waking me up though. I was a faithful Greek Orthodox and I ran into a born again who asked me, "are you sure you know where you are going to go when you die?" Of course setting me up for the fact that I wasn't baptized as an adult. This is their angle. They tell you how your religion has it wrong, even if it's a Christian faith. They have a hook to steal other Christians from other sects away. Brilliant really. If you didn't make the choice yourself as a child to get baptized, you have to do it again as an adult. Even if you believe as an adult after being baptized as a child, that aint good enough. You MUST be born again and that means you MUST go through the ritual of being baptized. Preferrably by one of their preachers because lets face it. If the Greek orthordox got this wrong, what else do they have wrong, right? LOL.

Quick question

If you're Orthodox doesn't that mean you follow Scripture rather literally?

Because even Jesus had to be baptized.

Are we somehow exempt while He wasn't? Wouldn't that put us above Him?

Interesting:

Why Was Jesus Baptized?

Why did Jesus, who was even more aware of His own sinlessness than John was, want to submit Himself to an act that testified to confession and repentance of sin? Some interpreters suggest that He intended His baptism to be a sort of initiatory rite for His high priesthood, reflecting the ceremony which prepared the Old Testament priests for their ministry. Others suggest that Jesus wanted to identify Himself with the Gentiles, who were initiated into Judaism as proselytes by the act of baptism. Still others take Jesus’ baptism to be His recognition and endorsement of John’s authority, His accrediting of John as a true prophet of God and the genuine forerunner of His own ministry. A fourth view is that the Lord intended to be baptized vicariously for the sins of mankind, making His baptism, along with His atoning death on the cross, a part of His sin-bearing, rederuptive work.

 

[emilynghiem]

I go by the Bible and what it tells me, Emily. Thank you.

I go by where we agree in Christ which includes the Bible but also
includes others who don't necessarily speak that language.

As long as we stay reconciled in Christ, then God's truth is established among us.
You can check that against the Bible.
I also check any conflict that comes up, make sure it is resolved in full,
so that the truth will come out of the process. Thank you Jeremiah

Compare Scripture with Scripture. False doctrines, like false witnesses, do not agree among themselves. William Gurnall said that. Thank God for wise servants of God that can tell it like it is and expose the lies by stating the truth so splendidly!

I agree with you that the point of agreeing in Christ is to correct error, not justify it.
Why do you insist that agreeing in Christ is something wrongful instead of something righteous?

Have you seen other people abuse this to push false things?
If so, that is another area that can be corrected by this same method of rebuke and correction in Christ.
Matthew 18:15-20

If people have been bearing false testimony, the proper way to correct that is to address each other one on one, and establish the truth in the mouths of 2-3 witnesses. This builds a consensus, and by all members of the church body agreeing point by point, correcting error one at a time, then the truth is established collectively. We all become joined in Christ, where all error is removed in the process.

Jeremiah I am curious where baptism occurs at different parts of the process for different people. sealybobo had an infant baptism but not one as an adult choosing to be baptized into the fold. I had a spriinkling baptism by a Tibetan monk I sought help from when I first went through a sudden "spiritual rebirth" process in 1990 and first understood that the meaning of Jesus in the Bible was true. I had never studied either Buddhism Christianity or any other religion, but the message I got was that what Jesus represented was coming to complete fruition. So I understand there will be a time when I and others go through a final baptism ceremony that symbolizes full reconciliation between the secular gentiles and the rest of the fold.

I envisioned this as some kind of marriage ceremony.

I understand there is an initial baptism at the beginning and a later baptism
but not sure what form, time or place this occurs.

I didn't plan my initial baptism, it just happened, and then I figured out later it was the equivalent of a sprinkling baptism. The impression I have about the future baptism is that it will be with another person, possibly my spiritual husband, and will symbolize a greater marriage or reconciliation than just individually but represent whole sectors of the population joining as one.
Not sure how that is going to play out, but I figured I would know when I get to that point, it would happen as it is meant to happen. The same way my "sprinkling baptism" happened, this will also come about when the time is right. Very curious about this and what all it will mean.

 

[guno]

When they are mocked for their religious beliefs.

Most of you know that I am a Muslim. I am a non practicing Muslim, and am not majorly devout, however, I have held my faith for a good 6 years now.

In my city, the council passed a motion to build a mosque, which will accommodate the Muslims in the city, who currently have to cram into a tiny little room that the university has kindly allowed them use of when they wish to pray.

On Saturday, there was a rally against this proposed mosque, and a counter rally in support of it. I attended the counter rally, and was horrified by the hatred shown toward those who just want to allow Muslims their own special place of worship.

Back at work, I discovered that my 'friends', who were also very much opposed to the mosque, bitching and complaining that 'those people want to take over the world', and 'they messed up their own country, now they want to screw up ours', and just making jokes about how when the mosque is built, we won't be allowed to serve bacon anymore.

As well as questioning why I wanted the mosque built (none of their business), their attitude toward Muslims appalled me. They don't know that while they make fun of Muslims, they are actually making fun of me. When they say they don't want Muslims in the city, does that mean they wouldn't want me, someone who has lived here for all my 32 years?

As someone who is too scared to openly show my faith, or even learn more about it for fear my faith will be discovered by those who will mock it, I can certainly understand how Christians feel when they are jeered and mocked for their beliefs.
While most of the so called Christians who attended the rally on Saturday are certainly not Christians (Jesus would be appalled at their hatred), there are many who have shown that they are ready to welcome in people of all faiths, which is pleasing - its a lot of loud mouthed fools that just make it so hard for me to feel welcome.

Today I have never felt so rejected and unwanted. I cannot imagine what Christians have had to deal with when they cop shit from atheists.

How do you guys manage to deal with the hatred?

Mocking and laughing at christ insanity is not persecution of Christians

 

[emilynghiem]

Question to the Born Again Christians -

If there's one thing I can't stand is born agains. I credit them for waking me up though. I was a faithful Greek Orthodox and I ran into a born again who asked me, "are you sure you know where you are going to go when you die?" Of course setting me up for the fact that I wasn't baptized as an adult. This is their angle. They tell you how your religion has it wrong, even if it's a Christian faith. They have a hook to steal other Christians from other sects away. Brilliant really. If you didn't make the choice yourself as a child to get baptized, you have to do it again as an adult. Even if you believe as an adult after being baptized as a child, that aint good enough. You MUST be born again and that means you MUST go through the ritual of being baptized. Preferrably by one of their preachers because lets face it. If the Greek orthordox got this wrong, what else do they have wrong, right? LOL.

Quick question

If you're Orthodox doesn't that mean you follow Scripture rather literally?

Because even Jesus had to be baptized.

Are we somehow exempt while He wasn't? Wouldn't that put us above Him?

I was baptized as a child. All Greek Orthodox children are at a very young age.

You are so precious. Sometimes I wonder if you know how much God loves you. You are just such a unique person, Sealy! When you read the story about John the Baptist calling the people to come and repent of their sins and be baptized do you think about how it would be impossible for a baby to repent or be baptized according to Scripture? What would be the purpose when as a baby had you died you would immediately have been with God, Sealy? God does not ask babies to repent but those of the age of reason - who know the difference between right and wrong. Does that make sense? With that said, it would be right for you to be baptized and know what you are doing when you receive forgiveness for your sins and accept Jesus as your Savior. I didn't get baptized right away - it was some months later I believe.

Us Greek Orthodox don't believe you have to go through the baptism ceremony again. To be Born Again as an adult just means the day you come to believe/accept/follow Jesus on your own. Is it really mandatory that I go through the ritual at a church or in front of another holy man? I think not.

Anyways doesn't matter because I wiped out my baptism by becoming an atheist. Last time I watched a baptism the priest said 5 times to the god father, "do you renounce satan?" and inside I was laughing because I thought, "what if that was me up there? What would I say to him? Would I say I do, or would I start an argument with him and say, "well actually I don't believe in Satan". lol

Dear sealybobo no I don't think you can wipe out what you have already received in the spirit of Christ.
Even my friend Ray Hill who is an atheist but preached as a Baptist up until the age of 19, still teaches abundance of free grace as a natural gift in life. As an Atheist who doesn't relate to a personified God or Jesus.
The process about forgiveness and grace remains true, for all people,
regardless if you or your constituents are theistic, nontheistic, or whatever you call yourself or God made you to be.

We are still under the same natural and spiritual laws that apply to all people
regardless what tribe or culture or language we relate to.

As for believing in Satan, it depends how you define what is Satan or what is God.
Everyone has seen selfishness and ego destroy people and relationships.
(And literally, the satanic cults and practices have gotten people killed, abusing FEAR and ill will to attack.)
You don't have to call that Satan for the spirit of selfish competition and division to befall humanity.
Whatever you call these forces of self-destruction, it's referring to the same process.

We don't have to agree yet where these forces come from, and yet we can still agree
that "unforgiveness" and fear add pressure that can make the problems worse, while forgiveness compassion
and charity towards others help empower people to overcome negative influences and ill will.
The point is to keep faith and find ways for the good to overcome the bad.
This way, we act and speak truth with love, to uplift unite and strengthen each other,
and not out of fear which can distract and divide and make things worse.

 

[emilynghiem]

Mocking and laughing at christ insanity is not persecution of Christians

It does cause harm to only publicize "bad examples" instead of promoting the right groups that save lives -- if you confuse the two and prevent people from getting lifesaving help in time (like people who discouraged Ebola victims from getting help from authorities, spreading rumors they were killing off the locals, and thus caused greater deaths from lack of emergency treatment).

Christian Healing Ministries - Christian Healing Ministries
Healing is Yours. Alternative Medicine Healing Ministry.
Here are two examples of lifesaving outreach.

Had public knowledge of and access to effective practice of Christian healing therapy
been out and established sooner,
maybe Flanagan could have gotten help BEFORE he killed two reporters in Virginia,
and more shootings could be prevented like those in Colorado, Charleston, Louisiana, etc.
involving mentally or criminally ill shooters.

Instead it is more popular in the media to bash Christians as a false religion to control people,
where lives are lost to mental illness that could have been saved
using the very methods Christians use for deep spiritual healing therapy to identify,
treat, and cure mental illness and dangerous addictions.

I strongly feel the spike in media attention to the issue of
mental illness will lead to promoting formal research and development
to save more lives in the future

The backlash against Christianity is part of the problem. I blame this division for obstructing public knowledge of free and natural methods of curing dangerous illnesses that deserves serious medical studies and publicity in the media as free help.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I'm sure some Christians do feel reviled. As I see it, and I know I could be wrong, Christians and Muslims have exactly the same problem. The entire Muslim religion and all it's adherents seem to be judged by the words and actions of a radical group who who use their religion to spread hate and anger and destruction. People can't seem to separate that group from the overwhelming majority who practice their loving religion with no ill will to anyone. Radical Christians who bastardize the gentle Christian religion show more hatred than anything else with their crucifixion complex and holier than thou attitudes. If that is all that is seen of Christianity, people will judge all of us Christians by that. I don't know how to make people see that the worst is not what either of the religions stand for, but until we figure out how to do that, there will be problems.

The first generation to understand the right of everyone else to be wrong regarding the beliefs swirling through history like smoke around unanswerable questions of origins and afterlife gets to watch their grandchildren leave for the stars.

True Story! ​

 

[emilynghiem]

I'm sure some Christians do feel reviled. As I see it, and I know I could be wrong, Christians and Muslims have exactly the same problem. The entire Muslim religion and all it's adherents seem to be judged by the words and actions of a radical group who who use their religion to spread hate and anger and destruction. People can't seem to separate that group from the overwhelming majority who practice their loving religion with no ill will to anyone. Radical Christians who bastardize the gentle Christian religion show more hatred than anything else with their crucifixion complex and holier than thou attitudes. If that is all that is seen of Christianity, people will judge all of us Christians by that. I don't know how to make people see that the worst is not what either of the religions stand for, but until we figure out how to do that, there will be problems.

Simple solution, BULLDOG
let all the judgmental retributive types from all religions get together and denounce, condemn and rebuke each other.
have at it. those who judge and kill by the sword are subjected to the same. Let them decide their own punishments.

Then all the ones who believe in restorative justice and corrections work on solutions together.
there can still be accountability, and restitution for wrongs proportional to the damages incurred.

But separate the sheep from the goats where each gets the justice they deserve.

 

[hortysir]

Question to the Born Again Christians -

If there's one thing I can't stand is born agains. I credit them for waking me up though. I was a faithful Greek Orthodox and I ran into a born again who asked me, "are you sure you know where you are going to go when you die?" Of course setting me up for the fact that I wasn't baptized as an adult. This is their angle. They tell you how your religion has it wrong, even if it's a Christian faith. They have a hook to steal other Christians from other sects away. Brilliant really. If you didn't make the choice yourself as a child to get baptized, you have to do it again as an adult. Even if you believe as an adult after being baptized as a child, that aint good enough. You MUST be born again and that means you MUST go through the ritual of being baptized. Preferrably by one of their preachers because lets face it. If the Greek orthordox got this wrong, what else do they have wrong, right? LOL.

Quick question

If you're Orthodox doesn't that mean you follow Scripture rather literally?

Because even Jesus had to be baptized.

Are we somehow exempt while He wasn't? Wouldn't that put us above Him?

I was baptized as a child. All Greek Orthodox children are at a very young age.

Thanks


I was baptized when I was eight but I think it makes such a stronger connection when you do it again at an older age when you can more fully understand the gravity of it all

 

[BULLDOG]

I'm sure some Christians do feel reviled. As I see it, and I know I could be wrong, Christians and Muslims have exactly the same problem. The entire Muslim religion and all it's adherents seem to be judged by the words and actions of a radical group who who use their religion to spread hate and anger and destruction. People can't seem to separate that group from the overwhelming majority who practice their loving religion with no ill will to anyone. Radical Christians who bastardize the gentle Christian religion show more hatred than anything else with their crucifixion complex and holier than thou attitudes. If that is all that is seen of Christianity, people will judge all of us Christians by that. I don't know how to make people see that the worst is not what either of the religions stand for, but until we figure out how to do that, there will be problems.

Simple solution, BULLDOG
let all the judgmental retributive types from all religions get together and denounce, condemn and rebuke each other.
have at it. those who judge and kill by the sword are subjected to the same. Let them decide their own punishments.

Then all the ones who believe in restorative justice and corrections work on solutions together.
there can still be accountability, and restitution for wrongs proportional to the damages incurred.

But separate the sheep from the goats where each gets the justice they deserve.

Great idea. How you gonna do that?

 

[sealybobo]

When they are mocked for their religious beliefs.

Most of you know that I am a Muslim. I am a non practicing Muslim, and am not majorly devout, however, I have held my faith for a good 6 years now.

In my city, the council passed a motion to build a mosque, which will accommodate the Muslims in the city, who currently have to cram into a tiny little room that the university has kindly allowed them use of when they wish to pray.

On Saturday, there was a rally against this proposed mosque, and a counter rally in support of it. I attended the counter rally, and was horrified by the hatred shown toward those who just want to allow Muslims their own special place of worship.

Back at work, I discovered that my 'friends', who were also very much opposed to the mosque, bitching and complaining that 'those people want to take over the world', and 'they messed up their own country, now they want to screw up ours', and just making jokes about how when the mosque is built, we won't be allowed to serve bacon anymore.

As well as questioning why I wanted the mosque built (none of their business), their attitude toward Muslims appalled me. They don't know that while they make fun of Muslims, they are actually making fun of me. When they say they don't want Muslims in the city, does that mean they wouldn't want me, someone who has lived here for all my 32 years?

As someone who is too scared to openly show my faith, or even learn more about it for fear my faith will be discovered by those who will mock it, I can certainly understand how Christians feel when they are jeered and mocked for their beliefs.
While most of the so called Christians who attended the rally on Saturday are certainly not Christians (Jesus would be appalled at their hatred), there are many who have shown that they are ready to welcome in people of all faiths, which is pleasing - its a lot of loud mouthed fools that just make it so hard for me to feel welcome.

Today I have never felt so rejected and unwanted. I cannot imagine what Christians have had to deal with when they cop shit from atheists.

How do you guys manage to deal with the hatred?

How come you haven't chimed in at all? Maybe Jeremiah can convert you to Christianity, I can convince you that athiesm is the truth or maybe Emily can convert you to whatever religion she's involved in.

 

[sealybobo]

Question to the Born Again Christians -

If there's one thing I can't stand is born agains. I credit them for waking me up though. I was a faithful Greek Orthodox and I ran into a born again who asked me, "are you sure you know where you are going to go when you die?" Of course setting me up for the fact that I wasn't baptized as an adult. This is their angle. They tell you how your religion has it wrong, even if it's a Christian faith. They have a hook to steal other Christians from other sects away. Brilliant really. If you didn't make the choice yourself as a child to get baptized, you have to do it again as an adult. Even if you believe as an adult after being baptized as a child, that aint good enough. You MUST be born again and that means you MUST go through the ritual of being baptized. Preferrably by one of their preachers because lets face it. If the Greek orthordox got this wrong, what else do they have wrong, right? LOL.

Quick question

If you're Orthodox doesn't that mean you follow Scripture rather literally?

Because even Jesus had to be baptized.

Are we somehow exempt while He wasn't? Wouldn't that put us above Him?

I was baptized as a child. All Greek Orthodox children are at a very young age.

Thanks


I was baptized when I was eight but I think it makes such a stronger connection when you do it again at an older age when you can more fully understand the gravity of it all

Well given the chance to do it as an adult I think is a great idea. How many people would not come back if they had to do that? I think it's a great idea to make people who were born into it reconfirm as adults. Make people say I believe Jesus is the son of God, Mary was a virgin and that they take it all literally. If you can't say it, don't call yourself a Christian. Where is the line? Are people who don't take the bible stories literally really Christians?

 

[sealybobo]

If there's one thing I can't stand is born agains. I credit them for waking me up though. I was a faithful Greek Orthodox and I ran into a born again who asked me, "are you sure you know where you are going to go when you die?" Of course setting me up for the fact that I wasn't baptized as an adult. This is their angle. They tell you how your religion has it wrong, even if it's a Christian faith. They have a hook to steal other Christians from other sects away. Brilliant really. If you didn't make the choice yourself as a child to get baptized, you have to do it again as an adult. Even if you believe as an adult after being baptized as a child, that aint good enough. You MUST be born again and that means you MUST go through the ritual of being baptized. Preferrably by one of their preachers because lets face it. If the Greek orthordox got this wrong, what else do they have wrong, right? LOL.

Quick question

If you're Orthodox doesn't that mean you follow Scripture rather literally?

Because even Jesus had to be baptized.

Are we somehow exempt while He wasn't? Wouldn't that put us above Him?

I was baptized as a child. All Greek Orthodox children are at a very young age.

You are so precious. Sometimes I wonder if you know how much God loves you. You are just such a unique person, Sealy! When you read the story about John the Baptist calling the people to come and repent of their sins and be baptized do you think about how it would be impossible for a baby to repent or be baptized according to Scripture? What would be the purpose when as a baby had you died you would immediately have been with God, Sealy? God does not ask babies to repent but those of the age of reason - who know the difference between right and wrong. Does that make sense? With that said, it would be right for you to be baptized and know what you are doing when you receive forgiveness for your sins and accept Jesus as your Savior. I didn't get baptized right away - it was some months later I believe.

Us Greek Orthodox don't believe you have to go through the baptism ceremony again. To be Born Again as an adult just means the day you come to believe/accept/follow Jesus on your own. Is it really mandatory that I go through the ritual at a church or in front of another holy man? I think not.

Anyways doesn't matter because I wiped out my baptism by becoming an atheist. Last time I watched a baptism the priest said 5 times to the god father, "do you renounce satan?" and inside I was laughing because I thought, "what if that was me up there? What would I say to him? Would I say I do, or would I start an argument with him and say, "well actually I don't believe in Satan". lol

Dear sealybobo no I don't think you can wipe out what you have already received in the spirit of Christ.
Even my friend Ray Hill who is an atheist but preached as a Baptist up until the age of 19, still teaches abundance of free grace as a natural gift in life. As an Atheist who doesn't relate to a personified God or Jesus.
The process about forgiveness and grace remains true, for all people,
regardless if you or your constituents are theistic, nontheistic, or whatever you call yourself or God made you to be.

We are still under the same natural and spiritual laws that apply to all people
regardless what tribe or culture or language we relate to.

As for believing in Satan, it depends how you define what is Satan or what is God.
Everyone has seen selfishness and ego destroy people and relationships.
(And literally, the satanic cults and practices have gotten people killed, abusing FEAR and ill will to attack.)
You don't have to call that Satan for the spirit of selfish competition and division to befall humanity.
Whatever you call these forces of self-destruction, it's referring to the same process.

We don't have to agree yet where these forces come from, and yet we can still agree
that "unforgiveness" and fear add pressure that can make the problems worse, while forgiveness compassion
and charity towards others help empower people to overcome negative influences and ill will.
The point is to keep faith and find ways for the good to overcome the bad.
This way, we act and speak truth with love, to uplift unite and strengthen each other,
and not out of fear which can distract and divide and make things worse.

This week when encountering blacks and Muslims I extended a smile or an opening of a door as a gesture of kindness. Then some black guy was nice to me the next day. Made me realize a gay black Hispanic Muslim woman is just like me. They just want to be happy.

How bout the lady who won't give gays marriage licences? See how religion makes people crazy?

 

[Avatar4321]

Question to the Born Again Christians -

If there's one thing I can't stand is born agains. I credit them for waking me up though. I was a faithful Greek Orthodox and I ran into a born again who asked me, "are you sure you know where you are going to go when you die?" Of course setting me up for the fact that I wasn't baptized as an adult. This is their angle. They tell you how your religion has it wrong, even if it's a Christian faith. They have a hook to steal other Christians from other sects away. Brilliant really. If you didn't make the choice yourself as a child to get baptized, you have to do it again as an adult. Even if you believe as an adult after being baptized as a child, that aint good enough. You MUST be born again and that means you MUST go through the ritual of being baptized. Preferrably by one of their preachers because lets face it. If the Greek orthordox got this wrong, what else do they have wrong, right? LOL.

Quick question

If you're Orthodox doesn't that mean you follow Scripture rather literally?

Because even Jesus had to be baptized.

Are we somehow exempt while He wasn't? Wouldn't that put us above Him?

Interesting:

Why Was Jesus Baptized?

Why did Jesus, who was even more aware of His own sinlessness than John was, want to submit Himself to an act that testified to confession and repentance of sin? Some interpreters suggest that He intended His baptism to be a sort of initiatory rite for His high priesthood, reflecting the ceremony which prepared the Old Testament priests for their ministry. Others suggest that Jesus wanted to identify Himself with the Gentiles, who were initiated into Judaism as proselytes by the act of baptism. Still others take Jesus’ baptism to be His recognition and endorsement of John’s authority, His accrediting of John as a true prophet of God and the genuine forerunner of His own ministry. A fourth view is that the Lord intended to be baptized vicariously for the sins of mankind, making His baptism, along with His atoning death on the cross, a part of His sin-bearing, rederuptive work.

Why Jesus was baptized is an interesting topic. The answer can be summed up here:

2 Nephi 31

 

[Avatar4321]

Got that one wrong. Care to try and sum up Muhammad's message in one sentence?

The Quran itself summarises Muhammad's message in one sentence, many times over.
It says " Obey Allah and the messenger". What that really means is obey the messenger, Muhammad.
Fight his wars for him and die for him otherwise he will set Allah on you.

Same with Christianity only you don't even have to obey god in Christianity. Just when you break the rules make sure you say sorry. And how many non christians have christians killed in the name of their lord?

Hell, they even kill themselves over it.

European wars of religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just saying sorry isn't repentance. Confession is a step toward repentance but not the entire process

When we apologize to God from our heart? We are forgiven. If we need to apologize to someone or make restitution He will let us know in His own time.

Repentance requires turning away from sin. If you lie, you stop and start telling the truth. If you are mean, you start being kind. Etc. Repentance is following God to choose the good. Not just admitting past mistakes. It's correcting them with the power of the atonement.

 

[hortysir]

Quick question

If you're Orthodox doesn't that mean you follow Scripture rather literally?

Because even Jesus had to be baptized.

Are we somehow exempt while He wasn't? Wouldn't that put us above Him?

I was baptized as a child. All Greek Orthodox children are at a very young age.

You are so precious. Sometimes I wonder if you know how much God loves you. You are just such a unique person, Sealy! When you read the story about John the Baptist calling the people to come and repent of their sins and be baptized do you think about how it would be impossible for a baby to repent or be baptized according to Scripture? What would be the purpose when as a baby had you died you would immediately have been with God, Sealy? God does not ask babies to repent but those of the age of reason - who know the difference between right and wrong. Does that make sense? With that said, it would be right for you to be baptized and know what you are doing when you receive forgiveness for your sins and accept Jesus as your Savior. I didn't get baptized right away - it was some months later I believe.

Us Greek Orthodox don't believe you have to go through the baptism ceremony again. To be Born Again as an adult just means the day you come to believe/accept/follow Jesus on your own. Is it really mandatory that I go through the ritual at a church or in front of another holy man? I think not.

Anyways doesn't matter because I wiped out my baptism by becoming an atheist. Last time I watched a baptism the priest said 5 times to the god father, "do you renounce satan?" and inside I was laughing because I thought, "what if that was me up there? What would I say to him? Would I say I do, or would I start an argument with him and say, "well actually I don't believe in Satan". lol

Dear sealybobo no I don't think you can wipe out what you have already received in the spirit of Christ.
Even my friend Ray Hill who is an atheist but preached as a Baptist up until the age of 19, still teaches abundance of free grace as a natural gift in life. As an Atheist who doesn't relate to a personified God or Jesus.
The process about forgiveness and grace remains true, for all people,
regardless if you or your constituents are theistic, nontheistic, or whatever you call yourself or God made you to be.

We are still under the same natural and spiritual laws that apply to all people
regardless what tribe or culture or language we relate to.

As for believing in Satan, it depends how you define what is Satan or what is God.
Everyone has seen selfishness and ego destroy people and relationships.
(And literally, the satanic cults and practices have gotten people killed, abusing FEAR and ill will to attack.)
You don't have to call that Satan for the spirit of selfish competition and division to befall humanity.
Whatever you call these forces of self-destruction, it's referring to the same process.

We don't have to agree yet where these forces come from, and yet we can still agree
that "unforgiveness" and fear add pressure that can make the problems worse, while forgiveness compassion
and charity towards others help empower people to overcome negative influences and ill will.
The point is to keep faith and find ways for the good to overcome the bad.
This way, we act and speak truth with love, to uplift unite and strengthen each other,
and not out of fear which can distract and divide and make things worse.

This week when encountering blacks and Muslims I extended a smile or an opening of a door as a gesture of kindness. Then some black guy was nice to me the next day. Made me realize a gay black Hispanic Muslim woman is just like me. They just want to be happy.

How bout the lady who won't give gays marriage licences? See how religion makes people crazy?

Yea. People that stick to their beliefs, regardless of how you stand on the subject, are crazy

 

[featherlite]

Question to the Born Again Christians -

If there's one thing I can't stand is born agains. I credit them for waking me up though. I was a faithful Greek Orthodox and I ran into a born again who asked me, "are you sure you know where you are going to go when you die?" Of course setting me up for the fact that I wasn't baptized as an adult. This is their angle. They tell you how your religion has it wrong, even if it's a Christian faith. They have a hook to steal other Christians from other sects away. Brilliant really. If you didn't make the choice yourself as a child to get baptized, you have to do it again as an adult. Even if you believe as an adult after being baptized as a child, that aint good enough. You MUST be born again and that means you MUST go through the ritual of being baptized. Preferrably by one of their preachers because lets face it. If the Greek orthordox got this wrong, what else do they have wrong, right? LOL.

Quick question

If you're Orthodox doesn't that mean you follow Scripture rather literally?

Because even Jesus had to be baptized.

Are we somehow exempt while He wasn't? Wouldn't that put us above Him?

I was baptized as a child. All Greek Orthodox children are at a very young age.

Thanks


I was baptized when I was eight but I think it makes such a stronger connection when you do it again at an older age when you can more fully understand the gravity of it all

Well given the chance to do it as an adult I think is a great idea. How many people would not come back if they had to do that? I think it's a great idea to make people who were born into it reconfirm as adults. Make people say I believe Jesus is the son of God, Mary was a virgin and that they take it all literally. If you can't say it, don't call yourself a Christian. Where is the line? Are people who don't take the bible stories literally really Christians?

If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead...you will be saved.
Its not done at gunpoint Sealy and no human has the power to give it to you, make you do it or... take it away from you.