North Carolina approves amendment banning gay marriage

[bigrebnc1775]

To a fundamentalist, genocide will never be as bad as not hating gays.

I'm a fundamentalist, I consider genocide worse than hating the lifestyle of gays. It's abnormal it's death to the human race. Gay's are murdering future generations with their life style.

Gays are "murdering" future generations? Please explain.

If my wife and I chose not to have kids, am I a murderer too?

.

Can gays create life? However I figured someone would go extreme with my comment.

 

[starcraftzzz]

Yes Sunni Man, and BigrebNC - incredibly insightful. Perhaps we should go back to a time in America when the church had a stronger hold on society, homosexuality was scoffed at, and our "morals" were shining in full strength.... you know, like when we used to ship black humans from Africa like commodities, and work them on the fields for 16 hour days until they died of heat exhaustion. I heard they packed the slave ships full with about 400 slaves apiece, and 2/3 of the "cargo" died on every single journey.

Or how about we go back to the days of Columbus, when the Native Central Americans were forced to provide him an allotment of gold every single month. If an individual didn't meet his/her quota, Columbus would chop off their hands. We sure knew how to be gracious "guests" back then... pure moral excellence, right?

But forget all that, I will take your word that we're all "much less" moral now - in fact, in a state of decay - given that we now have less people treating gays like dirt.

I like to stay away from personal attacks, but I just need to say: You guys are ******* idiots.

.

To a fundamentalist, genocide will never be as bad as not hating gays.

I'm a fundamentalist, I consider genocide worse than hating the lifestyle of gays. It's abnormal it's death to the human race. Gay's are murdering future generations with their life style.

Yes because 0 straight people have lots of sex or have unprotected sex; just look at africa 40% of them have HIV because they are all gay...

 

[Katzndogz]

So you're saying slavery wasn't an immoral activity because WHITE people at the time considered it a form of commerce? How does that even make sense?

..."it's just commerce" - I'm sure Jesus gave his blessings...

And what about the black people on those slave ships (ie the commodities) - did they just consider slavery as harmless "commerce" as well?

I understand that you are a racist (or maybe just a self loathing white person)

But, slavey has been accepted and practiced throughout history by all races and ethnicities all over the world.

And was not invented by "white people" as you intimate.

Again, people then just saw slavery as a business; and attached no morality to it.

To people of today that seems incredulous, but that's just how it was.

Sunni, I'm never claimed that whites invented slavery (but thanks for putting words in my mouth), nor am I a racist or a "self loathing" white (but go on - keep calling me names in an feeble attempt to bolster your rapidly failing argument).

My argument was simply that we - as Americans - participated in some horrendously immoral and unforgivable practices hundreds of years ago, and I find it disturbing that you instead consider this time "a period of greater moral decay" because there are less people who hate gays. Never mind the genocide, not hating gays is much worse. It's a preposterous argument.



.

Except that it wasn't horrendously immoral and unforgiveable practice hundreds of years ago. It was perfectly normal. It was only unforgiveable if slaves were abused. And that, a concept that existed only in America. Why couldn't these landowners just use tractors, combines and harvesters like everyone does today? Surely instead of Jewish slaves, the Egyptians could just have hired a few crane operators to build the pyramids.

 

[starcraftzzz]

I'm a fundamentalist, I consider genocide worse than hating the lifestyle of gays. It's abnormal it's death to the human race. Gay's are murdering future generations with their life style.

Gays are "murdering" future generations? Please explain.

If my wife and I chose not to have kids, am I a murderer too?

.

Can gays create life? However I figured someone would go extreme with my comment.

Are you unaware that gay people have sperm and vaginas?

 

[KevinWestern]

I understand that you are a racist (or maybe just a self loathing white person)

But, slavey has been accepted and practiced throughout history by all races and ethnicities all over the world.

And was not invented by "white people" as you intimate.

Again, people then just saw slavery as a business; and attached no morality to it.

To people of today that seems incredible, but that's just how it was.

That's false, at least in this country people thought they were doing the moral thing because blacks couldn't control/govern themselves, and others thought slavery was immoral. Slavery has a lot to do with morals and always has at least in this country.

I disagree with you on that Drock. Buying slaves and using slavery was as normal in our recent human history as is paying people compensation for work today.

Did some people find it immoral? Of corse, but it was the norm in the world....and all races were slave owners/enslaved its not some "White/black" thing, no race was exempt from slavery in the history of humankind.

How about we start here...

Do you think slavery is moral, or immoral?

 

[Dr.Drock]

I understand that you are a racist (or maybe just a self loathing white person)

But, slavey has been accepted and practiced throughout history by all races and ethnicities all over the world.

And was not invented by "white people" as you intimate.

Again, people then just saw slavery as a business; and attached no morality to it.

To people of today that seems incredible, but that's just how it was.

That's false, at least in this country people thought they were doing the moral thing because blacks couldn't control/govern themselves, and others thought slavery was immoral. Slavery has a lot to do with morals and always has at least in this country.

I disagree with you on that Drock. Buying slaves and using slavery was as normal in our recent human history as is paying people compensation for work today.

Did some people find it immoral? Of corse, but it was the norm in the world....and all races were slave owners/enslaved its not some "White/black" thing, no race was exempt from slavery in the history of humankind.

No it wasn't as normal. Even slave owners talked about the morality of slave owning. And I'm sure most slaves had an opinion on the morality of being kidnapped, tortured, abused, and often killed.

I'm just talking about this country, dunno enough about slavery in other countries to comment, but in this country there's always been a moral component to it from the slave owners to the slaves to the people who opposed slavery.

 

[Dr.Drock]

I'm a fundamentalist, I consider genocide worse than hating the lifestyle of gays. It's abnormal it's death to the human race. Gay's are murdering future generations with their life style.

Gays are "murdering" future generations? Please explain.

If my wife and I chose not to have kids, am I a murderer too?

.

Can gays create life? However I figured someone would go extreme with my comment.

Quite obviously, yes they can.

If we were still neanderthals running around in the woods eating worms and boogers to stay alive maybe, but not in 2012 and you know that.

 

[KevinWestern]

I understand that you are a racist (or maybe just a self loathing white person)

But, slavey has been accepted and practiced throughout history by all races and ethnicities all over the world.

And was not invented by "white people" as you intimate.

Again, people then just saw slavery as a business; and attached no morality to it.

To people of today that seems incredulous, but that's just how it was.

Sunni, I'm never claimed that whites invented slavery (but thanks for putting words in my mouth), nor am I a racist or a "self loathing" white (but go on - keep calling me names in an feeble attempt to bolster your rapidly failing argument).

My argument was simply that we - as Americans - participated in some horrendously immoral and unforgivable practices hundreds of years ago, and I find it disturbing that you instead consider this time "a period of greater moral decay" because there are less people who hate gays. Never mind the genocide, not hating gays is much worse. It's a preposterous argument.



.

Except that it wasn't horrendously immoral and unforgiveable practice hundreds of years ago. It was perfectly normal. It was only unforgiveable if slaves were abused. And that, a concept that existed only in America. Why couldn't these landowners just use tractors, combines and harvesters like everyone does today? Surely instead of Jewish slaves, the Egyptians could just have hired a few crane operators to build the pyramids.

Who cares what people thought of it THEN, this is a conversation taking place in 2012.

As a person living in 2012, I consider our slave society 200 years ago incredibly immoral. Much more immoral than anything taking place in America today.

Morality is on the rise, NOT the decline, from my 2012 lens. Maybe if you ask a 1786 person he'll think differently...

...but we're all modern people at this discussion, right?

 

[SniperFire]

That's false, at least in this country people thought they were doing the moral thing because blacks couldn't control/govern themselves, and others thought slavery was immoral. Slavery has a lot to do with morals and always has at least in this country.

I disagree with you on that Drock. Buying slaves and using slavery was as normal in our recent human history as is paying people compensation for work today.

Did some people find it immoral? Of corse, but it was the norm in the world....and all races were slave owners/enslaved its not some "White/black" thing, no race was exempt from slavery in the history of humankind.

No it wasn't as normal. Even slave owners talked about the morality of slave owning. And I'm sure most slaves had an opinion on the morality of being kidnapped, tortured, abused, and often killed.

I'm just talking about this country, dunno enough about slavery in other countries to comment.

He said it was the norm in recent human history, which is true. You said 'no, it wasn't', but then proceed to change the argument and say you were excluding recent human history and just talking about 'this country', which we must assume you mean the United States after 1776.

Then you tell us you really don't know what you are talking about, which was really unnecessary to add.

 

[koshergrl]

I think you can judge whether or not morality is on the rise when you look at the increase in immoral crime rates, the spread (and increase in types of) of STDs, the increase in child molestation, abuse, murder, the increase in numbers of abortions....

Those are all indicative of a decrease in morality, not an increase.

Of course, if you don't think child abuse and murder is immoral, if you don't think teen pregnancy is a symptom of immorality, and you think increased incidence and variety of STDs is moral, you might still feel morality is on the rise.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

That's false, at least in this country people thought they were doing the moral thing because blacks couldn't control/govern themselves, and others thought slavery was immoral. Slavery has a lot to do with morals and always has at least in this country.

I disagree with you on that Drock. Buying slaves and using slavery was as normal in our recent human history as is paying people compensation for work today.

Did some people find it immoral? Of corse, but it was the norm in the world....and all races were slave owners/enslaved its not some "White/black" thing, no race was exempt from slavery in the history of humankind.

No it wasn't as normal. Even slave owners talked about the morality of slave owning. And I'm sure most slaves had an opinion on the morality of being kidnapped, tortured, abused, and often killed.

I'm just talking about this country, dunno enough about slavery in other countries to comment, but in this country there's always been a moral component to it from the slave owners to the slaves to the people who opposed slavery.

If you look at just the history of the 13 colonies up to the civil war you are correct. I was taking a long view of slavery throughout human history.

Did you know we had both white and black slave owners in this country? Black Slave Owners Civil War Article by Robert M Grooms

 

[Dr.Drock]

I disagree with you on that Drock. Buying slaves and using slavery was as normal in our recent human history as is paying people compensation for work today.

Did some people find it immoral? Of corse, but it was the norm in the world....and all races were slave owners/enslaved its not some "White/black" thing, no race was exempt from slavery in the history of humankind.

No it wasn't as normal. Even slave owners talked about the morality of slave owning. And I'm sure most slaves had an opinion on the morality of being kidnapped, tortured, abused, and often killed.

I'm just talking about this country, dunno enough about slavery in other countries to comment.

He said it was the norm in recent human history, which is true. You said 'no, it wasn't', but then proceed to change the argument and say you were excluding recent human history and just talking about 'this country', which we must assume you mean the United States after 1776.

Then you tell us you really don't know what you are talking about, which was really unnecessary to add.

Here is the first time slavery was brought up in this discussion as it had to do with morals

Quote: Originally Posted by KevinWestern
Yes Sunni Man, and BigrebNC - incredibly insightful. Perhaps we should go back to a time in America when the church had a stronger hold on society, homosexuality was scoffed at, and our "morals" were shining in full strength.... you know, like when we used to ship black humans from Africa like commodities, and work them on the fields for 16 hour days until they died of heat exhaustion.

The point was about slavery in this country, not others.

Kevin, Sunni, Plymco and I are having a grown up discussion. I'm sure there's a thread somewhere about dog eating or the muppets promoting communism that's more up your alley.

 

[KevinWestern]

I disagree with you on that Drock. Buying slaves and using slavery was as normal in our recent human history as is paying people compensation for work today.

Did some people find it immoral? Of corse, but it was the norm in the world....and all races were slave owners/enslaved its not some "White/black" thing, no race was exempt from slavery in the history of humankind.

No it wasn't as normal. Even slave owners talked about the morality of slave owning. And I'm sure most slaves had an opinion on the morality of being kidnapped, tortured, abused, and often killed.

I'm just talking about this country, dunno enough about slavery in other countries to comment, but in this country there's always been a moral component to it from the slave owners to the slaves to the people who opposed slavery.

If you look at just the history of the 13 colonies up to the civil war you are correct. I was taking a long view of slavery throughout human history.

Did you know we had both white and black slave owners in this country? Black Slave Owners Civil War Article by Robert M Grooms

How about we take this approach:

If you apply your current “moral standards” to American society in 1800 to American society in 2012, which society wins out?

If 1800 wins out, that means morality is on the decline. If 2012 wins out, that means morality is on the incline.

Simple as that… right?


.

 

[Dr.Drock]

I disagree with you on that Drock. Buying slaves and using slavery was as normal in our recent human history as is paying people compensation for work today.

Did some people find it immoral? Of corse, but it was the norm in the world....and all races were slave owners/enslaved its not some "White/black" thing, no race was exempt from slavery in the history of humankind.

No it wasn't as normal. Even slave owners talked about the morality of slave owning. And I'm sure most slaves had an opinion on the morality of being kidnapped, tortured, abused, and often killed.

I'm just talking about this country, dunno enough about slavery in other countries to comment, but in this country there's always been a moral component to it from the slave owners to the slaves to the people who opposed slavery.

If you look at just the history of the 13 colonies up to the civil war you are correct. I was taking a long view of slavery throughout human history.

Did you know we had both white and black slave owners in this country? Black Slave Owners Civil War Article by Robert M Grooms

No I didn't know that I'll give it a read, thanks for the link.

 

[Katzndogz]

I think you can judge whether or not morality is on the rise when you look at the increase in immoral crime rates, the spread (and increase in types of) of STDs, the increase in child molestation, abuse, murder, the increase in numbers of abortions....

Those are all indicative of a decrease in morality, not an increase.

Of course, if you don't think child abuse and murder is immoral, if you don't think teen pregnancy is a symptom of immorality, and you think increased incidence and variety of STDs is moral, you might still feel morality is on the rise.

How right you are! These are the markers of morality, not slavery. In actuality we are far more immoral than we were 200 years ago with an immorality close to savagery and barbarism. Slavery was merely a marker of industrial progress having nothing whatever to do with morality at all.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

No it wasn't as normal. Even slave owners talked about the morality of slave owning. And I'm sure most slaves had an opinion on the morality of being kidnapped, tortured, abused, and often killed.

I'm just talking about this country, dunno enough about slavery in other countries to comment, but in this country there's always been a moral component to it from the slave owners to the slaves to the people who opposed slavery.

If you look at just the history of the 13 colonies up to the civil war you are correct. I was taking a long view of slavery throughout human history.

Did you know we had both white and black slave owners in this country? Black Slave Owners Civil War Article by Robert M Grooms

How about we take this approach:

If you apply your current “moral standards” to American society in 1800 to American society in 2012, which society wins out?

If 1800 wins out, that means morality is on the decline. If 2012 wins out, that means morality is on the incline.

Simple as that… right?


.

What are you getting at?

go back to the post I originally responded to and look at what I'm specifically discussing, your post makes currently no sense and seems to have no relevance in the context of my discussion (but i'm open for you to explain what you are getting at more, maybe i'm misreading your post)

 

[SniperFire]

No it wasn't as normal. Even slave owners talked about the morality of slave owning. And I'm sure most slaves had an opinion on the morality of being kidnapped, tortured, abused, and often killed.

I'm just talking about this country, dunno enough about slavery in other countries to comment.

He said it was the norm in recent human history, which is true. You said 'no, it wasn't', but then proceed to change the argument and say you were excluding recent human history and just talking about 'this country', which we must assume you mean the United States after 1776.

Then you tell us you really don't know what you are talking about, which was really unnecessary to add.

Here is the first time slavery was brought up in this discussion as it had to do with morals

Irrelevant.

 

[KevinWestern]

If my wife and I chose not to have kids, am I a murderer too?

If abortion was involved; then yes, you and her committed murder.

I would NEVER abort my child. Again, another twist up of my words, and taking thing out of context as a last ditch effort to save your sinking argument.

Big was obviously not referring to abortions when he said that gays were “murdering entire generations”.

.

 

[SniperFire]

Sunni, I'm never claimed that whites invented slavery (but thanks for putting words in my mouth), nor am I a racist or a "self loathing" white (but go on - keep calling me names in an feeble attempt to bolster your rapidly failing argument).

My argument was simply that we - as Americans - participated in some horrendously immoral and unforgivable practices hundreds of years ago, and I find it disturbing that you instead consider this time "a period of greater moral decay" because there are less people who hate gays. Never mind the genocide, not hating gays is much worse. It's a preposterous argument.



.

Except that it wasn't horrendously immoral and unforgiveable practice hundreds of years ago. It was perfectly normal. It was only unforgiveable if slaves were abused. And that, a concept that existed only in America. Why couldn't these landowners just use tractors, combines and harvesters like everyone does today? Surely instead of Jewish slaves, the Egyptians could just have hired a few crane operators to build the pyramids.

Who cares what people thought of it THEN, this is a conversation taking place in 2012.

As a person living in 2012, I consider our slave society 200 years ago incredibly immoral. Much more immoral than anything taking place in America today.

Morality is on the rise, NOT the decline, from my 2012 lens. Maybe if you ask a 1786 person he'll think differently...

...but we're all modern people at this discussion, right?

Ever hear of a bell curve?

 

[High_Gravity]

I'm a fundamentalist, I consider genocide worse than hating the lifestyle of gays. It's abnormal it's death to the human race. Gay's are murdering future generations with their life style.

Gays are "murdering" future generations? Please explain.

If my wife and I chose not to have kids, am I a murderer too?

.

Can gays create life? However I figured someone would go extreme with my comment.

Actually yes, gays and Lesbians can have children. Their reproductive organs work just like the rest of us.