North Carolina approves amendment banning gay marriage

[Sunni Man]

Morality is on the rise, NOT the decline from my 2012 lens.

You really think that morality is on the rise here in America?

50+% children born out of wedlock.

Teen pregnancies at record numbers.

1 in 4 teens has an STD

A woman is raped somewhere basically every 3 minutes.

Domestic violence against women is epidemic.

Murder and suicide are at record numbers.

Pedophilia is rampant and showing no decline in numbers.

Street gangs control large areas of major cities.

3+ million people are in prison and inmate population is increasing

Shall I continue??

 

[KevinWestern]

If you look at just the history of the 13 colonies up to the civil war you are correct. I was taking a long view of slavery throughout human history.

Did you know we had both white and black slave owners in this country? Black Slave Owners Civil War Article by Robert M Grooms

How about we take this approach:

If you apply your current “moral standards” to American society in 1800 to American society in 2012, which society wins out?

If 1800 wins out, that means morality is on the decline. If 2012 wins out, that means morality is on the incline.

Simple as that… right?


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What are you getting at?

go back to the post I originally responded to and look at what I'm specifically discussing, your post makes currently no sense and seems to have no relevance in the context of my discussion (but i'm open for you to explain what you are getting at more, maybe i'm misreading your post)

Pilgrim, I see what you mean... apologies for the confusion.

My post should have been more so directed to Sunni, Big, Sniper, Katz, ect...

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[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Gays are "murdering" future generations? Please explain.

If my wife and I chose not to have kids, am I a murderer too?

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Can gays create life? However I figured someone would go extreme with my comment.

Actually yes, gays and Lesbians can have children. Their reproductive organs work just like the rest of us.

Only lesbians can "have" children themselves (with a sperm donor). Gay men must adopt or find a woman willing to be implanted with their sperm and carry a baby to term.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

More laws and bigger govt to control American citizens ...

It's the Republican way.

 

[Dr.Drock]

He said it was the norm in recent human history, which is true. You said 'no, it wasn't', but then proceed to change the argument and say you were excluding recent human history and just talking about 'this country', which we must assume you mean the United States after 1776.

Then you tell us you really don't know what you are talking about, which was really unnecessary to add.

Here is the first time slavery was brought up in this discussion as it had to do with morals

Irrelevant.

Lol back to your quote ravaging I see.

And I'm sure the next time the mods catch you doing this, after a dozen warnings, it'll be their fault when you get banned because they're "abusing their powers."

But don't worry I won't point it out, I hope you stick around for the entertainment value you provide me .

 

[KevinWestern]

Morality is on the rise, NOT the decline from my 2012 lens.

You really think that morality is on the rise here in America?

50+% children born out of wedlock.

Teen pregnancies at record numbers.

1 in 4 teens has an STD

A woman is raped somewhere basically every 3 minutes.

Domestic violence against women is epidemic.

Murder and suicide are at record numbers.

Pedophilia is rampant and showing no decline in numbers.

Street gangs control large areas of major cities.

3+ million people are in prison and inmate population is increasing

Shall I continue??

Well Sunni, personally I don't think those things come close to trumping the systematic genocide of 22 million black men, women, & children by the collective American people - all in the name of profit, of course.

And you don't think pedophilia, murder, STD's, rape, and domestic violence against women existed to any degree in the 1800's?


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[KevinWestern]

Except that it wasn't horrendously immoral and unforgiveable practice hundreds of years ago. It was perfectly normal. It was only unforgiveable if slaves were abused. And that, a concept that existed only in America. Why couldn't these landowners just use tractors, combines and harvesters like everyone does today? Surely instead of Jewish slaves, the Egyptians could just have hired a few crane operators to build the pyramids.

Who cares what people thought of it THEN, this is a conversation taking place in 2012.

As a person living in 2012, I consider our slave society 200 years ago incredibly immoral. Much more immoral than anything taking place in America today.

Morality is on the rise, NOT the decline, from my 2012 lens. Maybe if you ask a 1786 person he'll think differently...

...but we're all modern people at this discussion, right?

Ever hear of a bell curve?

Yes, I have actually, what's your point?

 

[Dr.Drock]

Morality is on the rise, NOT the decline from my 2012 lens.

You really think that morality is on the rise here in America?

50+% children born out of wedlock.

Teen pregnancies at record numbers.

1 in 4 teens has an STD

A woman is raped somewhere basically every 3 minutes.

Domestic violence against women is epidemic.

Murder and suicide are at record numbers.

Pedophilia is rampant and showing no decline in numbers.

Street gangs control large areas of major cities.

3+ million people are in prison and inmate population is increasing

Shall I continue??

You have pointed out some huge flaws in this country. Street gangs and drug populations are because of the immoral drug war so i put that blame on gov't, not the people.

Hate is declining though, hate in the form of racism and homophobia.

 

[High_Gravity]

Can gays create life? However I figured someone would go extreme with my comment.

Actually yes, gays and Lesbians can have children. Their reproductive organs work just like the rest of us.

Only lesbians can "have" children themselves (with a sperm donor). Gay men must adopt or find a woman willing to be implanted with their sperm and carry a baby to term.

Well there are gays and lesbians that had children before they realized they were gay but you are correct also, gays and lesbians are fully capable of having children if they want to.

 

[M14 Shooter]

That's not the standard.
-Everyone may marry someone of the opposite gender.
-No one may marry someone of the same gender.
These restrictions and conditions apply to everyone, and thus, equal protection is satisfied.

Which was the same standard for inter-racial marriage.

-Everyone may marry someone of the same race.
-No-one may marry someone of a different race.

The restrictions applied to everyone.

But equal protection was NOT satisfied.

Tell me: When SSM is not allowed, who is being discrininiated against, and how?

 

[pfuzzy57]

So we shouldn't vote? We should just ask the minorities what it is they'd like us to do?

When a vote denies legal rights to some and not to others we should all be concerned.

Maybe people with your particular condition will be the next to be excluded.

Marriage is nothing but a property contract as far as the state is concerned. Allowing some and not others to enter into that contract is reprehensible in a country where individual freedoms are supposed to be the basis of government.

I hate to mention this but Americans are still a very religious people and to them marriage is between a man and a woman and is considered a religious state of "HOLY MATRIMONY" all the state can do is issue a license to allow a couple to marry. Why wouldn't the term "civil unions" allow gays all the benefitis they seek?

I wonder about this as well. If you're not religious, why do you need to get "married"? You can give a power of attorney to anyone you want, be it brother, sister, partner, or whomever, and legally that person has the very same benefits as a married couple would, such as acting in your benefit if you are incapacitated, financial decisions, etc.

Why is that so offensive to the gay community?

 

[PredFan]

More laws and bigger govt to control American citizens ...

It's the Republican way.

Yeah, you lefties hate when we usurp on your territory don't you?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

That's false, at least in this country people thought they were doing the moral thing because blacks couldn't control/govern themselves, and others thought slavery was immoral. Slavery has a lot to do with morals and always has at least in this country.

I disagree with you on that Drock. Buying slaves and using slavery was as normal in our recent human history as is paying people compensation for work today.

Did some people find it immoral? Of corse, but it was the norm in the world....and all races were slave owners/enslaved its not some "White/black" thing, no race was exempt from slavery in the history of humankind.

Wow, my public education exposed. I never knew there were black people who owned white men and women and held them in slavery. Thanks for filling in that gap in US Historyy for me.

You are very welcome.

Would you like some information in a link to read about the Black Americans who were slave owners in the United States? Black Slave Owners Civil War Article by Robert M Grooms

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

That's false, at least in this country people thought they were doing the moral thing because blacks couldn't control/govern themselves, and others thought slavery was immoral. Slavery has a lot to do with morals and always has at least in this country.

I disagree with you on that Drock. Buying slaves and using slavery was as normal in our recent human history as is paying people compensation for work today.

Did some people find it immoral? Of corse, but it was the norm in the world....and all races were slave owners/enslaved its not some "White/black" thing, no race was exempt from slavery in the history of humankind.

How about we start here...

Do you think slavery is moral, or immoral?

Highly Immoral

 

[Katzndogz]

Gays are "murdering" future generations? Please explain.

If my wife and I chose not to have kids, am I a murderer too?

.

Can gays create life? However I figured someone would go extreme with my comment.

Actually yes, gays and Lesbians can have children. Their reproductive organs work just like the rest of us.

They just can't have a child together. They need the participation of a third party.

 

[garyganu]

Actually yes, gays and Lesbians can have children. Their reproductive organs work just like the rest of us.

Only lesbians can "have" children themselves (with a sperm donor). Gay men must adopt or find a woman willing to be implanted with their sperm and carry a baby to term.

Well there are gays and lesbians that had children before they realized they were gay but you are correct also, gays and lesbians are fully capable of having children if they want to.

I thought that gays say that they were born that way. How could they realize that they are gay after having children?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Only lesbians can "have" children themselves (with a sperm donor). Gay men must adopt or find a woman willing to be implanted with their sperm and carry a baby to term.

Well there are gays and lesbians that had children before they realized they were gay but you are correct also, gays and lesbians are fully capable of having children if they want to.

I thought that gays say that they were born that way. How could they realize that they are gay after having children?

I don't know. If someone wants to be gay or is born gay does it really make a difference? Either way they are into people of the same sex.

 

[High_Gravity]

Only lesbians can "have" children themselves (with a sperm donor). Gay men must adopt or find a woman willing to be implanted with their sperm and carry a baby to term.

Well there are gays and lesbians that had children before they realized they were gay but you are correct also, gays and lesbians are fully capable of having children if they want to.

I thought that gays say that they were born that way. How could they realize that they are gay after having children?

I really can't answer that, I don't know, social pressure maybe? my girlfriend has a gay friend who was married and has 2 children from that marriage.

 

[KevinWestern]

I wonder about this as well. If you're not religious, why do you need to get "married"? You can give a power of attorney to anyone you want, be it brother, sister, partner, or whomever, and legally that person has the very same benefits as a married couple would, such as acting in your benefit if you are incapacitated, financial decisions, etc.

To respond, I am 0% religious and are currently married (to my wife). We wanted to get married because we love each other, and wanted to build a life around each other.

But you suggest...Power of attorney?

In polite words, buzz off…. the church doesn’t own the monopoly on “marriage”. My wife and I are living proof of it.


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[High_Gravity]

Can gays create life? However I figured someone would go extreme with my comment.

Actually yes, gays and Lesbians can have children. Their reproductive organs work just like the rest of us.

They just can't have a child together. They need the participation of a third party.

That or sometimes shit happens, I was watching an episode of True Life on MTV where a Lesbian woman slept with a man while she was on a break from her girlfriend and ended up getting pregnant.