None of our founding fathers said the pledge of alliegance.

[Dr.House]

Ok what have I said in this thrrad that is untrue?

Or do you want to show you ass some more?

Claiming the founding fathers were unamerican for not saying the pledge is BS...

You're still interested in my ass, huh?

Creepy....

 

[HUGGY]

None of our founding fathers said the pledge of alliegance.

Traitors!!!!!

Just sayin...

 

[uscitizen]

Ok what have I said in this thrrad that is untrue?

Or do you want to show you ass some more?

Claiming the founding fathers were unamerican for not saying the pledge is BS...

You're still interested in my ass, huh?

Creepy....

With a face like yours it is hard to tell what is ass.

And I see you have not learned how to recognize sarcasm yet.

 

[The T]

Ok what have I said in this thrrad that is untrue?

Or do you want to show you ass some more?

Claiming the founding fathers were unamerican for not saying the pledge is BS...

You're still interested in my ass, huh?

Creepy....

 

[The T]

How does saying the pledge have anything to do with Mindlessly following Bush into Iraq?

We can say the pledge and not blindly support the President. Because the pledge is to the flag of a nation who's government is We the people, Not one man. When you say the pledge you are not praising the president, or even supporting him. I look at it as pledging to protect, defend, and love the People and constitution that make America, America.

Those are valid reasons to cite the pledge. But that is you, not everyone else. The mindless following of Bush into Iraq can only occur when mindless nationalism is prevalent.

I agree, I just do not think the Pledge is mindless Nationalism. It's a pledge to the Idea of America and constitutional Government. Not to the State. IMO anyways.

American Exceptionalism in regard to Liberty, and self governance.

 

[Big Fitz]

Imagine how unamerican they were.

Intellectually bankrupt strawman argument.

They didn't drive cars either. Or use the internet.

Means nothing.

But you keep the delusion and see how far that bullshit gets you.

so driving a car or using the internet makes you an American?

I hope Bin Laden doesn't drive and log on!

Figures you are incapable of comprehending. Citizenship, is not tied to driving or using the internet anymore than it is the saying of the pledge of allegiance.

I know you retards are big on retroactive laws and may not comprehend that people in the past do not have hindsight of the future anymore than you knowing what happened tomorrow. So trying to use redacto in absurdum on people who were dead for decades before the creation of the pledge is cretinousto even entertain with more than mockery.

NOW, what your hatred for the Pledge shows clearly is that you have a disdain to hostility for what the flag represents. An innate and reflexive dislike for the ideas behind that symbol. You've long since decided that life, liberty and property is the problem with the world, not the solution.

But you know what? thanks to the freedoms afforded to you by that symbol you hate, you're allowed to hate it. But you are not free to be judged unworthy by your neighbor. Your ingratitude to this nation's forefathers is easy to see, and easier still to disgust.

So take your elitist fucktard opinion on the pledge, and hit the bricks. You may have the right to live here, but we, who do love this nation have no obligation to regard your kind as anything more than scumballs. One freedom you do not have here is to be free of the consequences of your actions and word.

 

[editec]

LOL!

It's true.

They did sign a kind of pledge of alligiance though.

And unlike most of those oaths of alligiance, which are basically meaningless sunshine patriotism, when they signed the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, they put their individual asses on the line.

 

[Big Fitz]

LOL!

It's true.

They did sign a kind of pledge of alligiance though.

And unlike most of those oaths of alligiance, which are basically meaningless sunshine patriotism, when they signed the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, they put their individual asses on the line.

oh no no no no.... that's not equivalent to a pledge of allegiance.

 

[The T]

LOL!

It's true.

They did sign a kind of pledge of alligiance though.

And unlike most of those oaths of alligiance, which are basically meaningless sunshine patriotism, when they signed the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, they put their individual asses on the line.

And what citizen won't in regard to their own Liberty and defending it?

-Ponder-

 

[bodecea]

LOL!

It's true.

They did sign a kind of pledge of alligiance though.

And unlike most of those oaths of alligiance, which are basically meaningless sunshine patriotism, when they signed the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, they put their individual asses on the line.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if we pledged those famous lines in part 1 everyday? Would be more meaningful, IMO.

 

[editec]

LOL!

It's true.

They did sign a kind of pledge of alligiance though.

And unlike most of those oaths of alligiance, which are basically meaningless sunshine patriotism, when they signed the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, they put their individual asses on the line.

And what citizen won't in regard to their own Liberty and defending it?

-Ponder-

Most of them.

A passing glance into history is more than enough evidence to support that statement, amigo.

It takes an enormous amount of injustice before most people will rise up against an oppressive government.

You're probably just the exception that proves the rule.

Good luck with that.

Every revolution has those early adapters who end up on the cutting edge of revolution.

The reason you cannot tell me their names is because they're seldom around after the revolution to take any bows.

The late adapters are more typically the survivors who then tell us that the great revolution that freed us all was their great idea.

Then typically they start the whole repression cycle up all over again.

So have fun storming the castle, T.

 

[loosecannon]

Intellectually bankrupt strawman argument.

They didn't drive cars either. Or use the internet.

Means nothing.

But you keep the delusion and see how far that bullshit gets you.

so driving a car or using the internet makes you an American?

I hope Bin Laden doesn't drive and log on!

Figures you are incapable of comprehending. Citizenship, is not tied to driving or using the internet anymore than it is the saying of the pledge of allegiance.

I know you retards are big on retroactive laws and may not comprehend that people in the past do not have hindsight of the future anymore than you knowing what happened tomorrow. So trying to use redacto in absurdum on people who were dead for decades before the creation of the pledge is cretinousto even entertain with more than mockery.

NOW, what your hatred for the Pledge shows clearly is that you have a disdain to hostility for what the flag represents. An innate and reflexive dislike for the ideas behind that symbol. You've long since decided that life, liberty and property is the problem with the world, not the solution.

But you know what? thanks to the freedoms afforded to you by that symbol you hate, you're allowed to hate it. But you are not free to be judged unworthy by your neighbor. Your ingratitude to this nation's forefathers is easy to see, and easier still to disgust.

So take your elitist fucktard opinion on the pledge, and hit the bricks. You may have the right to live here, but we, who do love this nation have no obligation to regard your kind as anything more than scumballs. One freedom you do not have here is to be free of the consequences of your actions and word.

Go **** yourself, and YOU don't have the balls to say that to my face.

The pledge is a tool invented by socialists, modeled after fealty oaths of serfdom, and was an icon of the emerging fascist climate in the USA before WWII. In fact it was copied by Italian and German fascists.

In more modern times it is a brainwashing tool used to instill nationalist pride.

The star spangled banner is what you are mistaking for the pledge of allegiance. It is indeed a salute to the flag.

The pledge is something other.

 

[blu]

Intellectually bankrupt strawman argument.

They didn't drive cars either. Or use the internet.

Means nothing.

But you keep the delusion and see how far that bullshit gets you.

so driving a car or using the internet makes you an American?

I hope Bin Laden doesn't drive and log on!

Figures you are incapable of comprehending. Citizenship, is not tied to driving or using the internet anymore than it is the saying of the pledge of allegiance.

I know you retards are big on retroactive laws and may not comprehend that people in the past do not have hindsight of the future anymore than you knowing what happened tomorrow. So trying to use redacto in absurdum on people who were dead for decades before the creation of the pledge is cretinousto even entertain with more than mockery.

NOW, what your hatred for the Pledge shows clearly is that you have a disdain to hostility for what the flag represents. An innate and reflexive dislike for the ideas behind that symbol. You've long since decided that life, liberty and property is the problem with the world, not the solution.

But you know what? thanks to the freedoms afforded to you by that symbol you hate, you're allowed to hate it. But you are not free to be judged unworthy by your neighbor. Your ingratitude to this nation's forefathers is easy to see, and easier still to disgust.

So take your elitist fucktard opinion on the pledge, and hit the bricks. You may have the right to live here, but we, who do love this nation have no obligation to regard your kind as anything more than scumballs. One freedom you do not have here is to be free of the consequences of your actions and word.

please read up on the origin on the pledge

 

[Navy1960]

Again fact is Jefferson nor any of our founding fathers ever said THE Pledge of Alliegiance.

I hope to have educated a few on the history of the Pledge.

so What should happen to those who say the pledge and then violate their "oath"?
ie try and deny liberty to all Americans.
Or violate the flag with autographs or somesuch?

Chief Justice John Marshall administered the first executive oath of office ever taken in the new federal city in the new Senate Chamber (now the Old Supreme Court Chamber) of the partially built Capitol building. The outcome of the election of 1800 had been in doubt until late February because Thomas Jefferson and Aaron Burr, the two leading candidates, each had received 73 electoral votes.

Thomas Jefferson: First Inaugural Address. U.S. Inaugural Addresses. 1989

You do know that the pledge is a pledge is loyality much like a loyality oath correct? So Jefferson would have been very familier with the Pledge of Allegiance. It's quite clear the Pledge itself did not come into being until 1892 and I dont think anyone has questioned that, but your assertion on the founding fathers would be incorrect in that oaths of loyality have been common throughout history. The only difference between the two is one is not legally binding. To answer your question it depends, if someone violated the pledge then nothing will happen , according to the Supreme Court, because it is a pledge of loyality not a legally binding written oath.

 

[rightwinger]

The founding fathers never wore a flag pin or stood for the national anthem...

Obviously hated America

 

[Navy1960]

The founding fathers never wore a flag pin or stood for the national anthem...

Obviously hated America

That's true, but they did prey and also went so far as to print a congressional bible for distrubition, as well as take oaths of office and pledge oaths to their individual colonies as well as the United States. I fail to see the point here, if someone in todays time period right , wishes to express a sense of love of country by wearing a flag pin or for that matter, singing the national anthem which didnt really come into being until the 20th century. Your talking though about how each generation celebrates or expresses their love of this nation.

At the start of each new Congress, in January of every odd-numbered year, the entire House of Representatives and one-third of the Senate performs a solemn and festive constitutional rite that is as old as the Republic. While the oath-taking dates back to the First Congress in 1789, the current oath is a product of the 1860s, drafted by Civil War-era members of Congress intent on ensnaring traitors.

U.S. Senate: Art & History Home > Origins & Development > Institutional Development > Oath of Office

On June 14, 1777, in order to establish an official flag for the new nation, the Continental Congress passed the first Flag Act: "Resolved, That the flag of the United States be made of thirteen stripes, alternate red and white; that the union be thirteen stars, white in a blue field, representing a new Constellation."
USFlag.org: A website dedicated to the Flag of the United States of America - Evolution of the United States Flag

I see nothing wrong at all with how people of different generations celebrate their love for this nation and frankly, wearing of pins, or buttons, is as old as the Republic itself and because someone chooses to do so does not make it a requirement for others to.


My God! How little do my countrymen know what precious blessings they are in possession of, and which no other people on earth enjoy! ~Thomas Jefferson

Patriotism is not a short frenzied burst of emotion, but the long and steady dedication of a lifetime. Thomas Jefferson

Patriotism is as much a virtue as justice, and is as necessary for the support of societies as natural affection is for the support of families.

Benjamin Rush, letter to His Fellow Countrymen: On Patriotism, October 20, 1773

Point is I think that the Founding Fathers would be quite familier with celebrations of patriotism and love of country in things such as the national anthem or wearing of flag pins and would also defend those who choose not to. Thats the real beauty of this nation.

 

[Samson]

The founding fathers never wore a flag pin or stood for the national anthem...

Obviously hated America

I see nothing wrong at all with how people of different generations celebrate their love for this nation and frankly, wearing of pins, or buttons, is as old as the Republic itself and because someone chooses to do so does not make it a requirement for others to.

Agreed.

But I do have to wonder what motivates the same people who are appalled when the public cannot accept the behaviour of a gay pride parade, but who cannot themselves stand for the national anthem.

 

[The T]

the founding fathers never wore a flag pin or stood for the national anthem...

Obviously hated america

*lame*

 

[The T]

the founding fathers never wore a flag pin or stood for the national anthem...

Obviously hated america

*lame*

 

[rightwinger]

The founding fathers never wore a flag pin or stood for the national anthem...

Obviously hated America

That's true, but they did prey and also went so far as to print a congressional bible for distrubition, as well as take oaths of office and pledge oaths to their individual colonies as well as the United States. I fail to see the point here, if someone in todays time period right , wishes to express a sense of love of country by wearing a flag pin or for that matter, singing the national anthem which didnt really come into being until the 20th century. Your talking though about how each generation celebrates or expresses their love of this nation.

At the start of each new Congress, in January of every odd-numbered year, the entire House of Representatives and one-third of the Senate performs a solemn and festive constitutional rite that is as old as the Republic. While the oath-taking dates back to the First Congress in 1789, the current oath is a product of the 1860s, drafted by Civil War-era members of Congress intent on ensnaring traitors.

U.S. Senate: Art & History Home > Origins & Development > Institutional Development > Oath of Office

On June 14, 1777, in order to establish an official flag for the new nation, the Continental Congress passed the first Flag Act: "Resolved, That the flag of the United States be made of thirteen stripes, alternate red and white; that the union be thirteen stars, white in a blue field, representing a new Constellation."
USFlag.org: A website dedicated to the Flag of the United States of America - Evolution of the United States Flag

I see nothing wrong at all with how people of different generations celebrate their love for this nation and frankly, wearing of pins, or buttons, is as old as the Republic itself and because someone chooses to do so does not make it a requirement for others to.


My God! How little do my countrymen know what precious blessings they are in possession of, and which no other people on earth enjoy! ~Thomas Jefferson

Patriotism is not a short frenzied burst of emotion, but the long and steady dedication of a lifetime. Thomas Jefferson

Patriotism is as much a virtue as justice, and is as necessary for the support of societies as natural affection is for the support of families.

Benjamin Rush, letter to His Fellow Countrymen: On Patriotism, October 20, 1773

Point is I think that the Founding Fathers would be quite familier with celebrations of patriotism and love of country in things such as the national anthem or wearing of flag pins and would also defend those who choose not to. Thats the real beauty of this nation.

As a matter of fact, the founders rejected such symbology and rebelled against the king. The "patriots" of the day were the torries loyal to the existing monarchy