Non-Citizens Caught Voting in a Swing State in 2012??

[WelfareQueen]

Yes it is

But if you prevent thousands of legitimate voters from voting in an attempt to stop 17 who shouldn't be voting, that is much worse

Where are legitimate voters being denied the right to vote? And to be clear....I want all eligible citizens to vote....and all non-eligible citizens not to vote.

12 Very Real Voter-Suppression Tactics Experts Now Worry Will Come Back - Emily Badger - The Atlantic Cities

1. Changing polling locations. An election official can make this call just days before an election.

2. Changing polling hours or eliminating early voting days. This may be particularly problematic in urban counties where long polling lines are most likely, as Henry Grabar reported last fall.

3. Reducing the number of polling places. This raises the same problem as above, particularly when the eliminated polling places had disproportionately served minority communities.

4. At-large elections. At-large elections for school-board members or city councils often dilute the voting power of minorities who have greater influence in single-candidate district elections. In an at-large election, a cohesive voting block with 51 percent of the vote can elect 100 percent of the officials.

5. Packing majority-minority districts. Election maps drawn to push all of a community's minorities in one or a handful of districts can dilute their voting power.

6. Dividing minority districts. Similarly, election maps can slice minority communities into multiple districts so that they have no cumulative influence in any one place. The line between these two tactics is a fine one (and also illustrates why the VRA was useful for assessing facts on the ground).

7. Voter ID laws: This increasingly popular tactic, sometimes likened to a modern-day poll tax, has the potential to disenfranchise voters who don't have a driver's license, or who don't have the money or ability to obtain one (a disproportionate share of these people are minorities). Such laws can also have a disproportionate impact in cities, where many people don't own cars.

8. Onerous candidate qualifications. In 2007, a Texas provision tried to limit those people eligible to become water district supervisors to landowners who were registered to vote.

9. Changing multi-lingual voter assistance. Making it harder for non-English language speakers to vote is a good way to dilute their power.

10. Changing election dates. Another trick that may not require legislative approval.

11. Creating new elections. In 2006, the DOJ objected to a plan in the Houston area that would have eliminated some joint elections and required voters to travel to multiple polling places.

12. Canceling elections. We're not even really sure how Kilmichael, Mississippi, thought they could get away with this.

Thank you for the link. It actually gave me something to look at and evaluate. The only illegal means of voter suppression identified and deemed bad are a poll tax, a literacy test, or a means test. All have been outlawed.

So you can be poor and illiterate and still vote (Obama's core voting bloc) and a fee cannot be levied to allow you to vote. The only requirement is you be of voting age and a U.S. citizen.

The variables listed in the article you mentioned can happen in all elections. To say they are a function of voter suppression is an assumption not born out by the facts. If they were a legitimate means of preventing eligible voters from casting a ballot they would be outlawed. Dates of elections change. Early voting rules may change. What cannot change is this. If you are 18 or older and a U.S. citizen you can cast a ballot. No one can legitimately stop you. If you are prevented from voting and you meet those two requirements you have an argument. If you are too stupid to show up to the polls on time, or follow the basic procedures to cast your ballot, tough shit. You probably shouldn't be voting in the first place.

 

[Moonglow]

17 were caught.

Check it out everyone, they think there was only 17.

That is what we are dealing with when we are talking about the thinking power of the hypocritical, double talking, left.

I am sure it was only 17 and those were the only ones.

Wow, how can we classify such stupidity? Is there an English word that can describe the left and this level of stupidity? Should we work on such a word?

The word is, republicanism.

 

[g5000]

The people for whom acquiring a Voter ID is difficult tend to be the poor and the elderly.

The poor mostly vote Democratic. So if you were an asshole Republican, you would do everything you can to prevent them from being able to vote. Thus, Voter ID.

It also happens that large voter turnouts favor the Democrats.


The end result of all this is that the GOP has become as un-American as it gets in its pursuit of suppressing the voting process which a lot of our ancestors shed a lot of blood for.

The GOP stopped earning MY vote years ago. The Democrats never earned my vote except one time, and that was only because William F. Buckley asked me to vote for Joe Lieberman so we could get rid of Lowell Weicker, which I happily did.

Now, I am a non-voter on the national level. The GOP has allowed itself to be overrun by bigots, idiots, liars, psychopaths, and hypocrites.

 

[rightwinger]

The people for whom acquiring a Voter ID is difficult tend to be the poor and the elderly.

The poor mostly vote Democratic. So if you were an asshole Republican, you would do everything you can to prevent them from being able to vote. Thus, Voter ID.

It also happens that large voter turnouts favor the Democrats.


The end result of all this is that the GOP has become as un-American as it gets in its pursuit of suppressing the voting process which a lot of our ancestors shed a lot of blood for.

The GOP stopped earning MY vote years ago. The Democrats never earned my vote except one time, and that was only because William F. Buckley asked me to vote for Joe Lieberman so we could get rid of Lowell Weicker, which I happily did.

Now, I am a non-voter on the national level. The GOP has allowed itself to be overrun by bigots, idiots, liars, psychopaths, and hypocrites.

Voter ID starts out as a simple concept. Then the parameters of what constitutes a valid ID begins to be played with. People in cities don't drive cars and don't have drivers licenses. Obtaining a non-driver ID still requires you to go to the nearest DMV which is convenient to drivers not non-drivers.

Issue every citizen an ID and then you can require one to vote

 

[g5000]

Issue every citizen an ID and then you can require one to vote

REAL ID Act of 2005.

DHS Determines 13 States Meet REAL ID Standards:

Secure driver's licenses and identification documents are a vital component of a holistic national security strategy. Law enforcement must be able to rely on government-issued identification documents and know that the bearer of such a document is who he or she claims to be.

 

[rightwinger]

Issue every citizen an ID and then you can require one to vote

REAL ID Act of 2005.

DHS Determines 13 States Meet REAL ID Standards:

Secure driver's licenses and identification documents are a vital component of a holistic national security strategy. Law enforcement must be able to rely on government-issued identification documents and know that the bearer of such a document is who he or she claims to be.

I'm cool with it

Carry a single card in your wallet. Acts as ID, drivers license, social security card, health insurance card, credit card......anything you need identification for
Prevents identity theft. Plug it into your computer and you can vote from home

Having a document that proves your identity does not give the government the right to arbitrarily demand you produce it

 

[ShawnChris13]

Voter ID is not the same as zieg heil! Quick! The nazis are coming because they want you to have an ID!

No. You need an ID to purchase tobacco, alcohol, and numerous other items. Is that fascism? No. Create a program that offers IDs to the poor and have those with sufficient income buy their own. Scare tactics like using the nazis is a deflection and conjecture.

Oh no everybody has a social security number! The nazis are coming! With a number to use to identify citizenship they're going to track your movements!

It's safe to assume with proven documented evidence that the government is already tracking your activities on the web. Which many transactions require anyways. Using your drivers license as proven identification tied to your social security number with today's technology isn't going to create a military state.

 

[depotoo]

So, which way did the 17 vote? Do you know?

who cares who they voted for? What a totally expected biased question from you. If you really cared about voter fraud you would care less whether they voted for the Dem or the Rep. on the ticket. Voter fraud by anyone is wrong.

 

[RKMBrown]

You retards will grasp at anything to try and prove voter fraud doesn't happen

Strawman. You will not find anyone here who claims voter fraud does not happen. Stop listening to the voices in your head and come out here to reality.

Its illegal and it needs to be stopped by making people present an ID I did in Ga and I do in NC and it doesn't bother me one bit.

Ohio does require Voter ID, dipshit.

Good. Every state should require it and every state should clean up the voter rolls. Why not make a database according to everyone's SS # and when they die it erases them from the voting rolls as well.Course I am of the opinion it doesn't matter who votes it matters who is counting the votes.

Yeah but if we verify SS# then Obama won't be able to vote and he'll get caught with his fake SS#, if we don't verify the numbers then cheating at voting would be no harder than it is to get the IRS to send you a welfare check at the end of the year for child tax credits.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Before I go ape shit on you...you will have to clarify that

You first. People like you love to use that term so broadly. Now, go apeshit on me. I'll get my poncho.

Minorities are not legitimate voters?

You got some splain'n to do

If by minorities you mean "illegal immigrants," I believe you're the one in need of an explanation, sir.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

17 were caught.

Check it out everyone, they think there was only 17.

That is what we are dealing with when we are talking about the thinking power of the hypocritical, double talking, left.

I am sure it was only 17 and those were the only ones.

Wow, how can we classify such stupidity? Is there an English word that can describe the left and this level of stupidity? Should we work on such a word?

 

[RKMBrown]

17 were caught.

Check it out everyone, they think there was only 17.

That is what we are dealing with when we are talking about the thinking power of the hypocritical, double talking, left.

I am sure it was only 17 and those were the only ones.

Wow, how can we classify such stupidity? Is there an English word that can describe the left and this level of stupidity? Should we work on such a word?

Libtardation works.

 

[Wry Catcher]

While I conceed voter fraud is a non-problem and simply voter suppression, I don't see why proposing a voter ID or other valid ID requirement is so out of line. If voter drives can help get people registered to vote, surely they can help them get those IDs, or existing state ID cards.

You know ... I am not sure if it is law or not in the precincts where I have voted ... But we have always had to show identification.
We pass the poll worker our identification ... They look up our name in the registry ... They call out and spell the name if necessary to another poll worker who writes it in two separate logs and we sign the registry next to our name.
Then they give us a qualification card to hand to the poll worker to identify any closed primary concerns or ballot initiatives that do or do not apply to our particular precinct ... The card sets the choices for the electronic voting machine.

They won't let you vote here without identification ... And the address on your identification has to match the address in the registry.
That would make it pretty hard to register in different precincts if you can only register where you live.
If people can find the time to go and vote ... They can find the time to go and get identification.

It is not difficult ... And has always been that way here.
It is simple do to something in order to avoid possible fraud ... Especially when there is no way to prove the fraud if you have no way of proving who is standing there.

.

Of course it's simple, unless the legislature and/or Governor is under the control of the GOP and knows it will lose the election on ideas, and needs to pass bills making voting more difficult. Let's not pretend this effort by the GOP is an effort to protect democracy. It's not, and anyone who states it is, is a LIAR!

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Liberals don't think it is a big deal when dead people vote and their guy/gal wins. But, when their guy loses, it's time to cry about hanging chads, claim voter machines were manipulated, and make sure that the military vote is disqualified.

Illegal votes are just fine with Liberals when it's their side winning.

You truly are a clueless partisan hack.

The issue is not the integrity of the voting process, something the left is as concerned about as the right.

The issue is the fact that these minuscule, isolated, non-representative irregularities are not justification for enacting unwarranted, burdensome elections laws such as ‘voter ID’ in an effort to ‘fix’ a ‘problem’ that doesn’t exist, at the expense of the voting rights of American citizens.

 

[Theowl32]

Liberals don't think it is a big deal when dead people vote and their guy/gal wins. But, when their guy loses, it's time to cry about hanging chads, claim voter machines were manipulated, and make sure that the military vote is disqualified.

Illegal votes are just fine with Liberals when it's their side winning.

You truly are a clueless partisan hack.

The issue is not the integrity of the voting process, something the left is as concerned about as the right.

The issue is the fact that these minuscule, isolated, non-representative irregularities are not justification for enacting unwarranted, burdensome elections laws such as ‘voter ID’ in an effort to ‘fix’ a ‘problem’ that doesn’t exist, at the expense of the voting rights of American citizens.

Yeah, of course not. You are such a miserable pile of crap, hypocritical, bloviated, gas bag. The people you claim to care so much for cannot do or accomplish anything in this country with a photo ID.
They cannot get a job, cash a check, or receive all of those "free gifts" the government gives them like food stamps. Not that you care, cause it is rather obvious you don't. Meanwhile, humor us some more and tell us how you think there were only 17 incidents of illegals voting in a key swing state was merely isolated.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

You first. People like you love to use that term so broadly. Now, go apeshit on me. I'll get my poncho.

Minorities are not legitimate voters?

You got some splain'n to do

If by minorities you mean "illegal immigrants," I believe you're the one in need of an explanation, sir.

No, minorities who are American citizens, who are legally registered to vote, in many cases for decades. American citizens who, through no fault of their own, lack the documentation needed to secure a state-issued photo ID, often as a consequence of racism, segregation, or discrimination in general where birth records are no longer available, were never provided, or where existing documentation was not properly promulgated and cannot be used.

The burden of proof concerning voter fraud lies with the state, not the voter; and if the state has no specific evidence regarding a particular voter’s attempt to commit fraud, then that voter should be allowed to vote if he’s properly registered absent a burdensome ID requirement.

 

[Theowl32]

Every honest person with an IQ over 85 understands that the effort of the GOP and their fellow travelers cannot win on ideas (the new GOP is bereft of ideas) and must win by suppressing the vote of those who don't fit in their tent.

Remember when this person said this?

Then I responded and said this?

The right have many ideas. The fact that you think no right winger ever suggested or proposed anything instead of the fraud known as Obamacare is yet another blatant lie put out by this liar in chief, repeated by the lying praetorian media that protects everything democrat, and then shapes the simpleton minds like yours.

Let’s start with 5 comprehensive health reform proposals that have actually been introduced in Congress—some well before President Obama even was nominated for president, and all months before the House (11/7/09) or Senate (12/24/09) voted on what eventually became Obamacare.

Ten Steps to Transform Health Care in America Act (S. 1783) introduced by Senator Mike Enzi (R-WY) July 12, 2007.

Every American Insured Health Act introduced by Senators Richard Burr (R-NC) and Bob Corker (R-TN) with co-sponsors Tom Coburn (R-OK), Mel Martinez (formerly R-FL) and Elizabeth Dole (formerly R-NC) on July 26, 2007.

Senators Bob Bennett (R-UT) and Ron Wyden (D-OR) introduced the Healthy Americans Act on January 18, 2007 and re-introduced the same bill on February 5, 2009.

Patients’ Choice Act of 2009 introduced by Senators Tom Coburn (R-OK) and Richard Burr (R-NC) and Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) and Devin Nunes (R-CA) on May 20, 2009.

H.R. 2300, Empowering Patients First Act introduced July 30, 2009 by Rep. Tom Price (R-GA).

--------------------------------------------------------

You knew nothing about any of these plans, cause you choose not to research any of the lies that comes from your parties mouth, nor the lies put out by the left wing media. Yet you claim FOX News lies?

More ideas for Obamacare......that you claim were not there.

Likewise, conservative market-oriented health policy scholars have developed a rich menu of potential replacement plans for Obamacare:

Individual Pay or Play proposed in 2005 by John Goodman; this is a minimalist version of a broader reform envisaged by Goodman built on converting the tax exclusion into universal tax credits.

Health Status Insurance originally proposed by John Cochrane in 1995

Universal Health Savings Accounts proposed by John Goodman and Peter Ferrara in 2012. This combines fixed tax credits with individual pay or play and health status insurance concepts along with Roth-style Health Savings Accounts


Fixed tax credits. A variety of proposals have centered on using fix tax credits to replace the current inefficient and unfair tax exclusion for employer-provided health benefits. Two good explanations of how that would work are here:

James C. Capretta and Robert E. Moffit, “How to Replace Obamacare,” National Affairs, no. 11 (Spring 2012).

James C. Capretta. Constructing an Alternative to Obamacare: Key Details for a Practical Replacement Program. American Enterprise Institute, December 2012.


Income-Related Tax Credits proposed by Mark Pauly and John Hoff in Responsible Tax Credits (2002) and endorsed by the American Medical Association. More recently, 8 scholars from Harvard, University of Chicago, and USC–Jay Bhattacharya, Amitabh Chandra, Michael Chernew, Dana Goldman, Anupam Jena, Darius Lakdawalla,Anup Malani and Tomas Philipson—releasedBest of Both Worlds: Uniting Universal Coverage and Personal Choice in Health Care (2013) which also is built around a model of individual health insurance subsidized with income-related tax credits.


Flexible Benefits Tax Credit For Health Insurance by Lynn Etheredge in 2001.


Universal Health Insurance Exchanges proposed in 2013 by former CBO director Douglas Holtz-Eakin and Avik Roy (covers Medicare and Medicaid in addition to privately insured).


What about the Bush plan in 2007? Conover said that Dubya proposed:

A sweeping health reform plan that would have replaced the current tax exclusion for employer-provided coverage with standard tax deductions for all individuals and families. The Bush plan called for a tax deduction that would have applied to payroll taxes as well as income taxes. Moreover, if one were worried about non-filers, the subsidy could easily have instead been structured as a refundable tax credit in which case even those without any income taxes would have gotten an additional amount. This is the kind of policy detail that easily could have been negotiated had the Democrats been in a cooperative mood in 2007. They were not.


Republican Alternatives to Obamacare - Forthright with Sue Lani Madsen



Anyone remember that?


I wonder if they still believe the lying administration, via MSNBC, that the republicans never proposed alternative plans to the confirmed sham known as the Obamacare (the single payer trojan horse).


I bet they still do believe it.

Especially 65000, who still proudly brags that he voted for this incompetent commie in chief. He....still.....brags about it.

 

[BDBoop]

Oh, god; my sides.



"Slippery slope ..."

 

[zeke]

Hey owlsie. How come your rethugs heroes didn't put all these good ideas into a piece of legislation that they could have passed when they had enough control to pass them?

Or why if these ideas are so good, why didn't the Rethugs SELL the ideas like the Dems sold Obamacare?

You know what dude. The only thing you Rethugs offer is bull shit and excuses. If only your party had some sort or SUCCESS to point to and say; this is how something is done successfully.

But no, it's just more excuses and bullshit.

 

[BullKurtz]

Never ceases to amaze the amount of stupid asses on this board. A whole 17, and spread across the state and parties.

Look asshole, your side lost because it went out of it's way to alienate minorities and women. Go ahead and double down on that strategy.

Laughing about voter fraud gives a clear view into the prog mind....party first, nation not even 10th. Look asshole, the "women and minorities" you speak of are welfare bums and moonbat leftists with make-work government jobs. You've let in 12,000,000 mehicans so they'll vote for your shit-bird candidates. But what you're forgetting is that 8 years of Clinturd was followed by 8 years of Bush to clean up Willy's sewage and so will Soetoro be followed by 8-12 years of the GOP...hell, you may never get the White House back.