No veils in France

[Si modo]

A veil is not a mask.

Yes it is.

No, it's a veil.

That's why the English language has two different words.

To describe to different items.

If it covers her face, it's a mask, when applying the law, Sunni.

Same in France, thus the phrase "across their faces" in the first sentence of the article.

 

[manifold]

A veil is not a mask.

Yes it is.

No, it's a veil.

That's why the English language has two different words.

To describe to different items.

Saying a veil isn't a mask is like saying it's not TV, it's HBO.

All veils are masks
Not all masks are veils

That's the difference skippy. Now you know.

 

[Si modo]

Few people seem to have any problem with 'draconian' laws that require certain body parts remain covered in public. So what is so offensive about a law that requires certain body parts remain uncovered in public?

That's an interesting point. We all know that there are 'decency' laws.

If I look at this as a freedom of expression issue, who is to say that someone who wants to expose certain body parts in public is not just expressing themselves? Then, I can argue that if someone with 'intestinal issues' likes to go bare-heinied in public, I really don't want to sit on the park bench they just sat on. The public health issue of all who use that bench outweighs the freedom of their expression. I don't think anyone has to prove that is a real public safety/health issue - 'intestinal issues' can happen to anyone and anyone can sit on a public seat.

Same argument here - if the there is a real public safety issue with covering one's face for cultural/religious reasons, then I can see that. I'm not so sure the public safety issue is real, unless it's clear that the intent is to conceal identity to intimidate or commit a crime.

 

[Sunni Man]

Saying a veil isn't a mask is like saying it's not TV, it's HBO.

All veils are masks
Not all masks are veils

That's the difference skippy. Now you know.

Now I know that you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.

TV is an physical object.

HBO is a video service company.

Now you know Skippy.

 

[hipeter924]

I think the government has no right to your body, what you wear on it is your business, and if you don't want to wear anything that's up to you, businesses and institutions still hold the right to refuse entry. Essentially the Burka means different things to different people, to some Arab women it is a mark of decency, to some western leaning Arabs its a mark of slavery and submission.

PS: If we are to start banning veils, why not bad fashion statements, there are are worse signs of slavery and submission than the veil, how about company and school uniforms?

 

[tigerbob]

draconian?

hyperbole much?

sentence much?

Still not a rebuttal though.

Seriously Mani? You were actually expecting a rebuttal over that one word?

OK, if your argument is with that one, specific word, try 'severe' instead.

 

[xsited1]

No veils in France

Why don't they ban underarm body hair for French women while they're at it?

 

[tigerbob]

Except for Muslim women, in the US in most locals it is ILLEGAL to wear a mask covering your face with out a legal or medical requirement. Exception being Halloween.

A veil is not a mask.

I agree there is a distinction, but isn't that a bit pedantic? The reasons for wearing them may be different, but both are intended to cover the face.

 

[tigerbob]

Few people seem to have any problem with 'draconian' laws that require certain body parts remain covered in public. So what is so offensive about a law that requires certain body parts remain uncovered in public?

But you're basically talking about cultural distinctions. Sunbathe topless in most of Europe and nobody will bat an eye. Sunbathe topless in most of North America and you'll be at least asked to cover up.

If there is a security reason for asking a person to remove a veil (such as in an airport) then that clearly overrides cultural norms. But legislating that nobody can have their face covered anywhere in public seems over-officious.

 

[Jos]

Will this new law apply to Brides veils too?

 

[tigerbob]

Will this new law apply to Brides veils too?

Presumably so, but only if she insists on wearing it in public at all times indefinitely.

 

[Colin]

Burka issue
Women in France who wear a burka are counted as 1.900 according to French Domestic Ministry. To another study they only count 376 women.
It's just a political maneuver to placate the rise of right in France.
The Roma also had to experience this.

The French government claims that it is a security issue.

Yet, not one single felony related crime has ever been committed by a woman wearing a burka in France.

Of course it's a security risk. In 2006 in Britain, a muslim terrorist evaded arrest by wearing a burka. Had it been against the law to cover one's face in this way, it would never have happened.

A MALE suspect in a major anti-terrorist investigation in Britain escaped capture by allegedly disguising himself as a Muslim woman dressed in a burka, The Times can reveal.
The man, who was wanted in connection with serious terrorist offences, evaded arrest for several days as police searched for him across the country.

The fact that a fugitive remained at large after disguising himself in an Islamic dress which covered his face will further fuel the debate sparked by Jack Straw, Leader of the House of Commons, about the wearing of the veil.

Details of the man’s true identity were circulated to ports and airports to try to prevent him leaving the country.

Suspect in terror hunt used veil to evade arrest - Times Online

Good on the French. It's a pity our politicians have no balls!

 

[del]

Burka issue
Women in France who wear a burka are counted as 1.900 according to French Domestic Ministry. To another study they only count 376 women.
It's just a political maneuver to placate the rise of right in France.
The Roma also had to experience this.

The French government claims that it is a security issue.

Yet, not one single felony related crime has ever been committed by a woman wearing a burka in France.

Except for Muslim women, in the US in most locals it is ILLEGAL to wear a mask covering your face with out a legal or medical requirement. Exception being Halloween.

bullshit

 

[Anguille]

being banned from wearing it in a public park seems a bit draconian.

draconian?

hyperbole much?

sentence much?

Oh yeah! And then some!!!!!!!

 

[Anguille]

Burka issue
Women in France who wear a burka are counted as 1.900 according to French Domestic Ministry. To another study they only count 376 women.
It's just a political maneuver to placate the rise of right in France.
The Roma also had to experience this.

The French government claims that it is a security issue.

Yet, not one single felony related crime has ever been committed by a woman wearing a burka in France.

Of course it's a security risk. In 2006 in Britain, a muslim terrorist evaded arrest by wearing a burka. Had it been against the law to cover one's face in this way, it would never have happened.

A MALE suspect in a major anti-terrorist investigation in Britain escaped capture by allegedly disguising himself as a Muslim woman dressed in a burka, The Times can reveal.
The man, who was wanted in connection with serious terrorist offences, evaded arrest for several days as police searched for him across the country.

The fact that a fugitive remained at large after disguising himself in an Islamic dress which covered his face will further fuel the debate sparked by Jack Straw, Leader of the House of Commons, about the wearing of the veil.

Details of the man’s true identity were circulated to ports and airports to try to prevent him leaving the country.

Suspect in terror hunt used veil to evade arrest - Times Online

Good on the French. It's a pity our politicians have no balls!

Please! It's Sarko who has no balls. Nor anyone else who thinks fighting over what women can or cannot wear is in some way addressing any sort of problem.

 

[Anguille]

Burka issue
Women in France who wear a burka are counted as 1.900 according to French Domestic Ministry. To another study they only count 376 women.
It's just a political maneuver to placate the rise of right in France.
The Roma also had to experience this.

The French government claims that it is a security issue.

Yet, not one single felony related crime has ever been committed by a woman wearing a burka in France.

Except for Muslim women, in the US in most locals it is ILLEGAL to wear a mask covering your face with out a legal or medical requirement. Exception being Halloween.

That's nice they make an exception for pagans too.

 

[Anguille]

As usual, women are put in the middle of a tug of war.

This isn't about national security. It's about imposing dress codes on the least powerful in French society - minority women.

 

[tigerbob]

As usual, women are put in the middle of a tug of war.

This isn't about national security. It's about imposing dress codes on the least powerful in French society - minority women.

You need to run for Mayor of South Park.

 

[Anguille]

As usual, women are put in the middle of a tug of war.

This isn't about national security. It's about imposing dress codes on the least powerful in French society - minority women.

You need to run for Mayor of South Park.

Je m'en fous de South Park.

 

[tigerbob]

As usual, women are put in the middle of a tug of war.

This isn't about national security. It's about imposing dress codes on the least powerful in French society - minority women.

You need to run for Mayor of South Park.

Je m'en fous de South Park.

Je m'en bats les couilles.