No One Has a Right to Health Care

[Contumacious]

A right to healthcare would seem to improve life and pursuit of happiness. As they say "two out of three ain't bad".

I really dont' see any legal barriers to someone getting healthcare other than laws that forbid one person from buying insurance in another state or country. I don't see anyone standing up for that right but maybe that is because so many politician are recieving money form insurance companies to deny us the right to buy healthcare in another state or country.

THEN ABOLISH ALL LAWS REGULATING HEALTHCARE .

THE COSTS WILL BE REDUCED BY 75%.


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[bendog]

if there is a right to healthcare, food, housing, transportation etc.. simply because you were born, and that care comes at the expense of others, then I say we have a right to tell you if you are allowed to have children or not. very simple.

Agreed, and that's why Bernie's a tool. It's all class warfare to him. The real reason to reform healthcare was, basically, the most expensive place to treat was the ER, and even then, if people had gone to a family doc and gotten little Johnny an Z pac instead of waiting for meningitis or had Dad get so generic Lotrel rather than a stroke, it'd be cheaper.

It's another question to ask whether Obamacare was the best way to get there

 

[Contumacious]

Even prior to the ACA nobody was denied access to healthcare. If you walked into a publicly funded hospital with a stab wound or drug overdose they were required to take care of you.

Then why do I remember that story of a couple people in Arizona who died because they weren't given heart transplants they couldn't afford?

IT IS VERY POSSIBLE THAT THE REASON HEALTHCARE WAS UNAFFORDABLE IS BECAUSE OF THE MASSIVE INVOLVEMENT OF GOVERNMENT IN HEALTHCARE .

 

[Tommy Tainant]

It seems that there is always money to kill people but never any money to help people.

Tony Benn

 

[Contumacious]

Even prior to the ACA nobody was denied access to healthcare. If you walked into a publicly funded hospital with a stab wound or drug overdose they were required to take care of you.

And if you were unable or unwilling to pay, the hospital absorbed those costs and passed them on to everyone else.

Isn't this the strategy behind forcing eveyone to buy health insurance? Let the healthy who never need this pay for the sick who do. It just seems like your scenario is exactly like obama-fucking-care.

FEDGOV HAS NO AUTHORITY TO COMPEL ANYONE TO BUY ANYTHING.

j'ustice' Roberts had no authority to rule that Americans could be forced to participate in the scam by making the scheme a tax

 

[Maryland Patriot]

It seems that there is always money to kill people but never any money to help people.

Tony Benn

there is nothing stopping you from contributing more of your income to support non workers.

 

[Contumacious]

I don't recall the streets being riddled with sickly or dead people before ACA. There has always been Medicaid and Charities to take care of the poor.

riiiiiiiight.... it was only that more than 50% of our bankruptcies were the result of unanticipated medical expenses.

and the minute people got sick and actually needed their insurance, they got canceled...

and when people lost their jobs (assuming the job provided coverage) they had to pay COBRA which was essentially unaffordable to anyone who just lost a job.

riiiiiiiiiiiight ........because government regulations and programs made healthcare prohibitively expensive

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Even prior to the ACA nobody was denied access to healthcare. If you walked into a publicly funded hospital with a stab wound or drug overdose they were required to take care of you.

And if you were unable or unwilling to pay, the hospital absorbed those costs and passed them on to everyone else.

Isn't this the strategy behind forcing eveyone to buy health insurance? Let the healthy who never need this pay for the sick who do. It just seems like your scenario is exactly like obama-fucking-care.

Im sorry but that statement is just about the dumbest thing I have ever read. A bloke told me once that as he hadnt got kids he shouldnt pay taxes for schools. That comment is on the same level. I hope that you are never sick.

 

[Contumacious]

I don't give a crap whether it is a "right". I don't care if some people think it is "moral".

Providing at least preventive, diagnostic and basic health care services identifies problems early and saves money in the long run. It's good economics.

Expand the current, already-working personal Medicare/Medicare Supplement/Medicare Advantage program to all.

Take a massive cost/administration monkey off the backs of American business. Take a massive cost/administration monkey off the backs of insurers by relieving them of paying for the lower-end services. Rid us of the SEVEN (7) different delivery/payment systems we have right now, none of which coordinate directly with the other. Maintain a robust, dynamic, competitive insurance environment.

Both parties have completely failed us on this.
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Providing at least preventive, diagnostic and basic health care services identifies problems early and saves money in the long run, it's not good economics if taxpayers and producers are required to pay for them under penalty of law.

Hopefully , you will agree that when those taxpayers and producers violently oppose your scheme that you will agree that its a good defensive mechanism


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[Contumacious]

Even prior to the ACA nobody was denied access to healthcare. If you walked into a publicly funded hospital with a stab wound or drug overdose they were required to take care of you.

And if you were unable or unwilling to pay, the hospital absorbed those costs and passed them on to everyone else.

Isn't this the strategy behind forcing eveyone to buy health insurance? Let the healthy who never need this pay for the sick who do. It just seems like your scenario is exactly like obama-fucking-care.

Im sorry but that statement is just about the dumbest thing I have ever read. A bloke told me once that as he hadnt got kids he shouldnt pay taxes for schools. That comment is on the same level. I hope that you are never sick.

I know you socialists believe that compelling participation at gun point is a good thing.

Funny how you are opposed to the people owning firearms - but you are for government officials owning firearms in order to to steal from us.

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[Maryland Patriot]

Even prior to the ACA nobody was denied access to healthcare. If you walked into a publicly funded hospital with a stab wound or drug overdose they were required to take care of you.

And if you were unable or unwilling to pay, the hospital absorbed those costs and passed them on to everyone else.

Isn't this the strategy behind forcing eveyone to buy health insurance? Let the healthy who never need this pay for the sick who do. It just seems like your scenario is exactly like obama-fucking-care.

Im sorry but that statement is just about the dumbest thing I have ever read. A bloke told me once that as he hadnt got kids he shouldnt pay taxes for schools. That comment is on the same level. I hope that you are never sick.

and if he cant afford a car I hope he never needs a ride.
maybe we should make car ownership a right.

 

[OldLady]

No One Has a Right to Health Care
by Jacob G. Hornberger February 3, 2016

Democratic Presidential candidate Bernie Sanders says that everyone has a right to health care. Unfortunately, none of his presidential opponents, Democrat or Republican, is going to challenge him on the point. They’re too scared that they’d lose votes by challenging a standard socialist shibboleth in America.

Sanders’ assertion only goes to show how American socialists (i.e., progressives) have warped and perverted the concept of rights within the minds of the American people. The fact is that no one has a right to health care any more than he has a right to a home, a car, food, spouse, or anything else.

The correct concept of rights was enunciated by Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence, the document that Americans ironically celebrate every Fourth of July. Jefferson observed that people have been endowed with certain unalienable rights, among which are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Yes. And when you have a disease that can be cured and save your LIFE, sorry if you can't afford the treatment. Tough shit, per Contumacious. The money in his/her pocket belongs to him/her and no one can have ANY OF IT.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

if there is a right to healthcare, food, housing, transportation etc.. simply because you were born, and that care comes at the expense of others, then I say we have a right to tell you if you are allowed to have children or not. very simple.

So how does that work ? You advocate abortion but the child has already been born. Mad.

 

[OldLady]

Even prior to the ACA nobody was denied access to healthcare. If you walked into a publicly funded hospital with a stab wound or drug overdose they were required to take care of you.

An E.R. charges a thousand dollars for a visit, where people with pneumonia, gastroenteritis, panic attacks, etc. go when a doctor's visit would be vastly less expensive, if they had the insurance coverage. Who's really paying?

 

[Arianrhod]

Even prior to the ACA nobody was denied access to healthcare. If you walked into a publicly funded hospital with a stab wound or drug overdose they were required to take care of you.

And if you were unable or unwilling to pay, the hospital absorbed those costs and passed them on to everyone else.

Isn't this the strategy behind forcing eveyone to buy health insurance? Let the healthy who never need this pay for the sick who do. It just seems like your scenario is exactly like obama-fucking-care.

It isn't, and there are any number of threads in the ObamaCare forum about this, if you'd care to have a look or start your own thread. I'd especially recommend Greenbeard's posts. He's quite informative.

 

[OldLady]

A right to healthcare would seem to improve life and pursuit of happiness. As they say "two out of three ain't bad".

Agreed.. that's why contrary to public opinion, we don't deny access to healthcare.

The welfare state compels taxpayers and producers to pay for healthcare - but socialized medicine will bankrupt the nation. I mean the US is already bankrupt t---the national debt is over 18 TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTrillion $$$$$.

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It's true a mighty lot of people are getting very rich on sick people. That's where a lot of attention needs to be spent, fast.

 

[Contumacious]

We need single payer just like 90% of the rest of the first world. The op has an opinion and he thinks everyone should live a tough and hard life as people did in the 18th century, but we don't have too. We the people can make things better for ourselfs and this is why we must elect clinton or sanders!

STUPID RETARD

What Soviet Medicine Teaches Us

In 1918, the Soviet Union became the first country to promise universal "cradle-to-grave" healthcare coverage, to be accomplished through the complete socialization of medicine. The "right to health" became a "constitutional right" of Soviet citizens.

The proclaimed advantages of this system were that it would "reduce costs" and eliminate the "waste" that stemmed from "unnecessary duplication and parallelism" — i.e., competition.

These goals were similar to the ones declared by Mr. Obama and Ms. Pelosi — attractive and humane goals of universal coverage and low costs. What's not to like?

The system had many decades to work, but widespread apathy and low quality of work paralyzed the healthcare system. In the depths of the socialist experiment, healthcare institutions in Russia were at least a hundred years behind the average US level. Moreover, the filth, odors, cats roaming the halls, drunken medical personnel, and absence of soap and cleaning supplies added to an overall impression of hopelessness and frustration that paralyzed the system. According to official Russian estimates, 78 percent of all AIDS victims in Russia contracted the virus through dirty needles or HIV-tainted blood in the state-run hospitals.

Irresponsibility, expressed by the popular Russian saying "They pretend they are paying us and we pretend we are working," resulted in appalling quality of service, widespread corruption, and extensive loss of life. My friend, a famous neurosurgeon in today's Russia, received a monthly salary of 150 rubles — one-third of the average bus driver's salary.

In order to receive minimal attention by doctors and nursing personnel, patients had to pay bribes. I even witnessed a case of a "nonpaying" patient who died trying to reach a lavatory at the end of the long corridor after brain surgery. Anesthesia was usually "not available" for abortions or minor ear, nose, throat, and skin surgeries. This was used as a means of extortion by unscrupulous medical bureaucrats.

 

[Arianrhod]

Even prior to the ACA nobody was denied access to healthcare. If you walked into a publicly funded hospital with a stab wound or drug overdose they were required to take care of you.

An E.R. charges a thousand dollars for a visit, where people with pneumonia, gastroenteritis, panic attacks, etc. go when a doctor's visit would be vastly less expensive, if they had the insurance coverage. Who's really paying?

Since more people have insurance now, those costs are dropping. Again, plenty of information about that in the ObamaCare forum (see Greenbeard's posts/threads in particular).

As for why people go to the ER for those things, they very often become critical after the doctor's gone home for the day; the ER is open 24/7. If you're struggling to breathe on a Friday evening because of pneumonia or asthma, it's a little inconvenient to wait until Monday morning.

There are walk-in clinics in some places, but they too keep "business hours." When the walk-in clinic and your doctor's office are closed, who ya gonna call?

 

[Contumacious]

It's those damn veterans lazing about in hospitals that started this welfare thing. Then to add insult, Washington, that's George, wanted to give some of the officers pensions. Add to that some of the states began taking care of their indigent even to taking care some of the younger kids that couldn't work. Of course, the kids that could work were rented out to employers during the day. A nation that begins like that is on its way to welfare heaven.

I always think it's funny how the loserterian always uses the founders as one huge block of I hate government and we need super small government. lol There were founders that thought we needed a very powerful government and most thought that the federal government needed the power to tax and be above the states...This is why we have the Constitution we have today!!! And any attempt from the ones that didn't want this was defeated!!! If they believed that this power only belonged at the state level...Wouldn't they have done nothing in 1787????

LISTEN , YOU SOCIALIST MOTHERFUCKER


WE DON'T HAVE A CONSTITUTION TODAY

THE 1787 Constitution was substituted in 1935 by the welfare/warfare police state "constitution" wherein the government bureaucrats have sole authority to declare what is good for us.


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[OldLady]

Even prior to the ACA nobody was denied access to healthcare. If you walked into a publicly funded hospital with a stab wound or drug overdose they were required to take care of you.

An E.R. charges a thousand dollars for a visit, where people with pneumonia, gastroenteritis, panic attacks, etc. go when a doctor's visit would be vastly less expensive, if they had the insurance coverage. Who's really paying?

Since more people have insurance now, those costs are dropping. Again, plenty of information about that in the ObamaCare forum (see Greenbeard's posts/threads in particular).

As for why people go to the ER for those things, they very often become critical after the doctor's gone home for the day; the ER is open 24/7. If you're struggling to breathe on a Friday evening because of pneumonia or asthma, it's a little inconvenient to wait until Monday morning.

There are walk-in clinics in some places, but they too keep "business hours." When the walk-in clinic and your doctor's office are closed, who ya gonna call?

I agree. I was replying to ZackB's ridiculous statement that publicly funded hospitals have to treat you. There are a lot of uninsured people using the ER for their medical complaints because they can't afford a doctor's visit. And that ends up costing tax payers a lot more.