New York lawmakers look to ban cops who resign, are fired for misconduct, from being rehired elsewhere

[Mac-7]

truth is that crime spikes don’t affect the police as much as the citizens. It is the citizens being robbed. Not the cops. It is the citizens being raped. Not cops. A vast majority of people murdered aren’t cops.

So that tells you that you ought to coddle criminals and bash the cops?

i think libs have it backwards

 

[SavannahMann]

do you believe that law enforcement and their officers are the only occupation that can't do their job properly without full immunity for when they screw up or commit misconduct, along with the resultant consequences?

How many other occupations are routinely murdered on the job?

A lot more people die in other occupations than cops.

Top 25 most dangerous jobs in the United States

Roofers, power lineman, construction jobs are among the most dangerous jobs in the United States based on data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics Census of Fatal Occupational Injuries and studied by AdvisorSmith.

www.ishn.com

Cops are 21 on the list. Odd thi Most common fatal accidents: Violence and other injuries by persons or animals ng is that those other occupations don’t make more money. I mean. The most dangerous job should make a million a year right?

While everybody else on the list has transportation incidences, slips and falls and the reason for deaths, only the cops have this: "Most common fatal accidents: Violence and other injuries by persons or animals " We know what most of the animals look like. Say his name!

If your wife doesn’t come home from work. Do your children feel better because Mommy was crushed by a large excavator? If your Son is killed in an automobile accident. How much solace does the family feel if the other driver was just distracted and not drunk?

If your daughter is murdered by a madman, does it make anyone feel better if she was a waitress and not a cop?

The truth is that crime spikes don’t affect the police as much as the citizens. It is the citizens being robbed. Not the cops. It is the citizens being raped. Not cops. A vast majority of people murdered aren’t cops.

Last week a Soldier was killed at Fort Bragg. A training accident. She jumped out of a helicopter and died during the parachute training jump.

Fort Bragg paratrooper dies in accident during training jump

A news release from the division says Jenks was performing a static-line jump from a UH-60 Blackhawk helicopter on Monday when the accident occurred.

www.walb.com

Do you think her family felt better or worse because she wasn’t in combat? Do you think it mattered one damn bit to them that she was home and safe before she died?

As of today a majority of cops who died this year died from COVID. 55 so far. Last year was the same. Of the 360 deaths of police 232 were from COVID.

2020

461 law enforcement officers were killed in the line of duty in 2020.

www.odmp.org

So last year and so far this year the greatest threat facing the cops was a virus. Do you think their families would have preferred they were killed serving a warrant? How do you think the families feel hearing that their loved one was just weak and in no way reflective of the deadliness of the virus?

If you add up the accidental deaths from 2020 you find the cops were more likely to die from an accident than gunfire. But hey we have to focus on the wrong thing to make our point don’t we?

You don’t give a fuck about cops. So don’t pretend that you do.

I don't doubt all that made sense to you, but I think you're batshit crazy.

Ok. What did not make sense to you?

Nor much.

The truth is that more cops have died this year from COVID. Last year they were five or six times more likely to die from COVID.

So why is nobody screaming about the cops dying from COVID? Isn’t that the biggest threat?

 

[Mac-7]

do you believe that law enforcement and their officers are the only occupation that can't do their job properly without full immunity for when they screw up or commit misconduct, along with the resultant consequences?

How many other occupations are routinely murdered on the job?

A lot more people die in other occupations than cops.

Top 25 most dangerous jobs in the United States

Roofers, power lineman, construction jobs are among the most dangerous jobs in the United States based on data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics Census of Fatal Occupational Injuries and studied by AdvisorSmith.

www.ishn.com

Cops are 21 on the list. Odd thi Most common fatal accidents: Violence and other injuries by persons or animals ng is that those other occupations don’t make more money. I mean. The most dangerous job should make a million a year right?

While everybody else on the list has transportation incidences, slips and falls and the reason for deaths, only the cops have this: "Most common fatal accidents: Violence and other injuries by persons or animals " We know what most of the animals look like. Say his name!

If your wife doesn’t come home from work. Do your children feel better because Mommy was crushed by a large excavator? If your Son is killed in an automobile accident. How much solace does the family feel if the other driver was just distracted and not drunk?

If your daughter is murdered by a madman, does it make anyone feel better if she was a waitress and not a cop?

The truth is that crime spikes don’t affect the police as much as the citizens. It is the citizens being robbed. Not the cops. It is the citizens being raped. Not cops. A vast majority of people murdered aren’t cops.

Last week a Soldier was killed at Fort Bragg. A training accident. She jumped out of a helicopter and died during the parachute training jump.

Fort Bragg paratrooper dies in accident during training jump

A news release from the division says Jenks was performing a static-line jump from a UH-60 Blackhawk helicopter on Monday when the accident occurred.

www.walb.com

Do you think her family felt better or worse because she wasn’t in combat? Do you think it mattered one damn bit to them that she was home and safe before she died?

As of today a majority of cops who died this year died from COVID. 55 so far. Last year was the same. Of the 360 deaths of police 232 were from COVID.

2020

461 law enforcement officers were killed in the line of duty in 2020.

www.odmp.org

So last year and so far this year the greatest threat facing the cops was a virus. Do you think their families would have preferred they were killed serving a warrant? How do you think the families feel hearing that their loved one was just weak and in no way reflective of the deadliness of the virus?

If you add up the accidental deaths from 2020 you find the cops were more likely to die from an accident than gunfire. But hey we have to focus on the wrong thing to make our point don’t we?

You don’t give a fuck about cops. So don’t pretend that you do.

I don't doubt all that made sense to you, but I think you're batshit crazy.

Ok. What did not make sense to you?

Nor much.

The truth is that more cops have died this year from COVID. Last year they were five or six times more likely to die from COVID.

So why is nobody screaming about the cops dying from COVID? Isn’t that the biggest threat?

X
Savannahman is correct about police deaths

excluding wuflu victims the cops had 128 line of duty deaths in 2020

whereas cops killed 181 blacks

and if anything I wish the numbers were even more skewed in the cops favor

because resisting arrest should be risky business for people of all colors

181 Black People Have Been Killed by Police Since George Floyd's Death

Black people accounted for 18.7 percent of police killings since May 25, 2020.

www.newsweek.com

 

[JoeB131]

They could force police to wear tattoos like the Nazis made the Jews wear so they could be easily identified and returned to their original owner.

But if their owner does not want them back, maybe tell them to go take a "shower"

Jews were owned by people? I think you are mixing your metaphors.

Now, let's look at this law in context.

Timothy Loehmann was fired from the Independence, OH Police Department for emotional immaturity and incompetence. The Cleveland PD picked him right up, didn't even bother to call for a reference. He proceeded to shoot 12 year old Tamir Rice for playing with a toy in the park.

Darren Wilson was fired from Jennings, MO police department, only to be picked up by Furgeson, MO. He then shot Mike Brown when the guy had his hands up. (And, no, I don't want to relitigate the case.)

A more logical solution here would be to have police licenses, just like we have a license to be a nurse or a doctor.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

First of all, possession of a CCW is not an occupation and isn't comparable to what we're talking about regarding the police losing qualified immunity although I do understand the point you're trying to make. Just don't agree with it though.

Secondly when referring to you and your dad's career, if you're speaking of indemnity where your employer agrees to bear the costs of any litigation or other expenses incurred by their workers, said worker can be sued in their official capacity or in their individual capacity, being indemnified only addresses the finances, not whether or not you can be sued.

From a judgment recovery/enforcement perspective in the event of a lawsuit win, the employer is generally the one with the deepest pockets therefore suing the person in their official capacity provides you with the best chance of recovering on judgement unless you just want to hold a judgment against the individual defendant for various reasons.

Thirdly let's go back to having a CCW. Simply possessing a CCW license does not confer upon the holder immunity from prosecution if they use their weapon, which is how you made it sound above. If you use your firearm to shoot and kill someone and you do so while out in public as opposed to on your own property, even if you're lawfully carrying your weapon with your CCW license, the police still have to make a determination of what actually happened and that usually requires an investigation. And they don't just return your weapon to you. If it was used in a fatal shooting, it's now evidence that will be confiscated at least until they have made a decision if charges are going to be filed, in which case it will be retained as evidence in the trial or return it to do if they decline to prosecute.

The way thing are currently, when an officer screws up or kills someone it's his employer who pays out on the lawsuits, the officers suffer no financial harm. And as far as I know the immunity extends to them not being prosecuted as well. So from a risk management perspective, what motivation do they have to be the best and most ethical civil servants possible? If they do things by the book or if they don't it's no skin off their nose all the way up to killing someone.

The following excerpt is for individuals who carry a firearm as part of their job in Washington State (CJTC firearm training manual). Why should it be any different for law enforcement?

The first problem we are having here is you're conflating criminal with civil law. They are not the same. If a person illegally uses their firearm, that's a crime. However if a person legally uses their firearm in a justified shooting, they can still face civil lawsuits by the attacker or his family if you kill them.

The point I'm making with a CCW is that police officers are held to the same standards of law that we citizens are with the exception of financial liability. You must show that you had reason to believe you were in jeopardy of serious bodily harm or death, or you exercised that right to aid another person. In other words I'm at a store. Some armed maniac comes in demanding all the money from the cashier. I have every reason to believe that the cashier is in jeopardy of serious bodily harm or death, so I use my weapon to kill the robber. Perfectly legal.

Can the police confiscate my weapon? Yes they can, but it must be returned to me in X amount of hours (I forget the time frame now) according to our laws. However in an open and shut case like the store robbery which is all on video, it's likely they'll just return your weapon because there is no need to investigate anything.

So our police officers (held to the same laws that I am) do care who they shoot and make damn sure they are within the constraints of the law. That's on top of the public retaliation a police officer could face putting his and his families life in jeopardy. We have a public that is ignorant of our laws, and these uneducated neanderthals are the ones who participate in protests and riots. The innocent officer may still lose his job, may not find another job in police work simply because of name association, and end his or her career. They have everything to lose, so taking away immunity only makes it worse.

 

[SavannahMann]

do you believe that law enforcement and their officers are the only occupation that can't do their job properly without full immunity for when they screw up or commit misconduct, along with the resultant consequences?

How many other occupations are routinely murdered on the job?

A lot more people die in other occupations than cops.

Top 25 most dangerous jobs in the United States

Roofers, power lineman, construction jobs are among the most dangerous jobs in the United States based on data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics Census of Fatal Occupational Injuries and studied by AdvisorSmith.

www.ishn.com

Cops are 21 on the list. Odd thi Most common fatal accidents: Violence and other injuries by persons or animals ng is that those other occupations don’t make more money. I mean. The most dangerous job should make a million a year right?

While everybody else on the list has transportation incidences, slips and falls and the reason for deaths, only the cops have this: "Most common fatal accidents: Violence and other injuries by persons or animals " We know what most of the animals look like. Say his name!

If your wife doesn’t come home from work. Do your children feel better because Mommy was crushed by a large excavator? If your Son is killed in an automobile accident. How much solace does the family feel if the other driver was just distracted and not drunk?

If your daughter is murdered by a madman, does it make anyone feel better if she was a waitress and not a cop?

The truth is that crime spikes don’t affect the police as much as the citizens. It is the citizens being robbed. Not the cops. It is the citizens being raped. Not cops. A vast majority of people murdered aren’t cops.

Last week a Soldier was killed at Fort Bragg. A training accident. She jumped out of a helicopter and died during the parachute training jump.

Fort Bragg paratrooper dies in accident during training jump

A news release from the division says Jenks was performing a static-line jump from a UH-60 Blackhawk helicopter on Monday when the accident occurred.

www.walb.com

Do you think her family felt better or worse because she wasn’t in combat? Do you think it mattered one damn bit to them that she was home and safe before she died?

As of today a majority of cops who died this year died from COVID. 55 so far. Last year was the same. Of the 360 deaths of police 232 were from COVID.

2020

461 law enforcement officers were killed in the line of duty in 2020.

www.odmp.org

So last year and so far this year the greatest threat facing the cops was a virus. Do you think their families would have preferred they were killed serving a warrant? How do you think the families feel hearing that their loved one was just weak and in no way reflective of the deadliness of the virus?

If you add up the accidental deaths from 2020 you find the cops were more likely to die from an accident than gunfire. But hey we have to focus on the wrong thing to make our point don’t we?

You don’t give a fuck about cops. So don’t pretend that you do.

I don't doubt all that made sense to you, but I think you're batshit crazy.

Ok. What did not make sense to you?

Nor much.

The truth is that more cops have died this year from COVID. Last year they were five or six times more likely to die from COVID.

So why is nobody screaming about the cops dying from COVID? Isn’t that the biggest threat?

X
Savannahman is correct about police deaths

excluding wuflu victims the cops had 128 line of duty deaths in 2020

whereas cops killed 181 blacks

and if anything I wish the numbers were even more skewed in the cops favor

because resisting arrest should be risky business for people of all colors

181 Black People Have Been Killed by Police Since George Floyd's Death

Black people accounted for 18.7 percent of police killings since May 25, 2020.

www.newsweek.com

Ok. We are making progress. If you subtract the accidental things. Vehicle accidents. Motorcycle accidents. Duty related illness. Whatever that is. You are left with 69 cops who were killed because of the intentional actions of another person.

By contrast you have more than a thousand who were shot and killed by police.

People shot to death by U.S. police, by race 2024 | Statista

The trend of fatal police shootings in the U.S. seems to only be increasing each year, with 1,097 civilians, 225 of whom were Black, killed by police in 2022.

www.statista.com

Oh and that shows at least 241 blacks were shot by police in 2020. Granted some of those may have been killed before Floyd.

But as I said. Making progress.

The largest group is Whites. White folks are apparently a bigger threat.

But hey. We have to worry about the folks less likely to kill cops. Just as we have to worry about cops getting shot. Despite the fact that shootings take up a small percentage of deaths. We have to pretend it is the greatest threat imaginable.

So what can we do to reduce police deaths? The easiest thing is to have cops wear seatbelts. 19 cops died in vehicle accidents. Cops rarely wear seatbelts because they want to be ready to jump out of the car. Five. Perhaps ten cops a year could live with seatbelts.

I’ll skip the obvious. And focus on what you are focused on. Gunfire. For that we have to have those investigations I have been advocating for decades. We have to examine every event and figure out what can be done better. Reconstruct the events so we can learn what works and what doesn’t.

This way we can change the training to reflect strategies that work better to save lives.

And before you say it is bullshit. We learn all the time. At the start of Vietnam we continued the same battlefield care we used in World War 1 and through to Korea. One of the first things the medics did was pop the wounded guy with morphine. We had to take care of the pain.

During Vietnam we learned that this was actually killing our troops. It caused them to go into shock. We learned how to save more lives. That didn’t stop. It continued.

I remember the Democrats coming perilously close to complaining the body counts of American Dead were artificially low because of advanced lifesaving treatments during Iraq II.

We learned. And we are still learning. Coming up with new techniques to save lives.

How much we learn depends on our willingness to be brutally honest and examine accepted beliefs. We will never eliminate the deaths of cops. We can reduce the deaths. We will never eliminate the deaths of citizens. But we can reduce those numbers. Just as we have reduced the numbers of deaths of our troops.

We have to be willing to think outside the box. What we are doing now is building a better box to keep every one in.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I’ll skip the obvious. And focus on what you are focused on. Gunfire. For that we have to have those investigations I have been advocating for decades. We have to examine every event and figure out what can be done better. Reconstruct the events so we can learn what works and what doesn’t.

Well how do you figure they created policy policy and training now? Through past events. That's why police bark those orders at a suspect and demand they do what the officer says.

 

[Mac-7]

do you believe that law enforcement and their officers are the only occupation that can't do their job properly without full immunity for when they screw up or commit misconduct, along with the resultant consequences?

How many other occupations are routinely murdered on the job?

A lot more people die in other occupations than cops.

Top 25 most dangerous jobs in the United States

Roofers, power lineman, construction jobs are among the most dangerous jobs in the United States based on data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics Census of Fatal Occupational Injuries and studied by AdvisorSmith.

www.ishn.com

Cops are 21 on the list. Odd thi Most common fatal accidents: Violence and other injuries by persons or animals ng is that those other occupations don’t make more money. I mean. The most dangerous job should make a million a year right?

While everybody else on the list has transportation incidences, slips and falls and the reason for deaths, only the cops have this: "Most common fatal accidents: Violence and other injuries by persons or animals " We know what most of the animals look like. Say his name!

If your wife doesn’t come home from work. Do your children feel better because Mommy was crushed by a large excavator? If your Son is killed in an automobile accident. How much solace does the family feel if the other driver was just distracted and not drunk?

If your daughter is murdered by a madman, does it make anyone feel better if she was a waitress and not a cop?

The truth is that crime spikes don’t affect the police as much as the citizens. It is the citizens being robbed. Not the cops. It is the citizens being raped. Not cops. A vast majority of people murdered aren’t cops.

Last week a Soldier was killed at Fort Bragg. A training accident. She jumped out of a helicopter and died during the parachute training jump.

Fort Bragg paratrooper dies in accident during training jump

A news release from the division says Jenks was performing a static-line jump from a UH-60 Blackhawk helicopter on Monday when the accident occurred.

www.walb.com

Do you think her family felt better or worse because she wasn’t in combat? Do you think it mattered one damn bit to them that she was home and safe before she died?

As of today a majority of cops who died this year died from COVID. 55 so far. Last year was the same. Of the 360 deaths of police 232 were from COVID.

2020

461 law enforcement officers were killed in the line of duty in 2020.

www.odmp.org

So last year and so far this year the greatest threat facing the cops was a virus. Do you think their families would have preferred they were killed serving a warrant? How do you think the families feel hearing that their loved one was just weak and in no way reflective of the deadliness of the virus?

If you add up the accidental deaths from 2020 you find the cops were more likely to die from an accident than gunfire. But hey we have to focus on the wrong thing to make our point don’t we?

You don’t give a fuck about cops. So don’t pretend that you do.

I don't doubt all that made sense to you, but I think you're batshit crazy.

Ok. What did not make sense to you?

Nor much.

The truth is that more cops have died this year from COVID. Last year they were five or six times more likely to die from COVID.

So why is nobody screaming about the cops dying from COVID? Isn’t that the biggest threat?

X
Savannahman is correct about police deaths

excluding wuflu victims the cops had 128 line of duty deaths in 2020

whereas cops killed 181 blacks

and if anything I wish the numbers were even more skewed in the cops favor

because resisting arrest should be risky business for people of all colors

181 Black People Have Been Killed by Police Since George Floyd's Death

Black people accounted for 18.7 percent of police killings since May 25, 2020.

www.newsweek.com

Ok. We are making progress. If you subtract the accidental things. Vehicle accidents. Motorcycle accidents. Duty related illness. Whatever that is. You are left with 69 cops who were killed because of the intentional actions of another person.

By contrast you have more than a thousand who were shot and killed by police.

People shot to death by U.S. police, by race 2024 | Statista

The trend of fatal police shootings in the U.S. seems to only be increasing each year, with 1,097 civilians, 225 of whom were Black, killed by police in 2022.

www.statista.com

Oh and that shows at least 241 blacks were shot by police in 2020. Granted some of those may have been killed before Floyd.

But as I said. Making progress.

The largest group is Whites. White folks are apparently a bigger threat.

But hey. We have to worry about the folks less likely to kill cops. Just as we have to worry about cops getting shot. Despite the fact that shootings take up a small percentage of deaths. We have to pretend it is the greatest threat imaginable.

So what can we do to reduce police deaths? The easiest thing is to have cops wear seatbelts. 19 cops died in vehicle accidents. Cops rarely wear seatbelts because they want to be ready to jump out of the car. Five. Perhaps ten cops a year could live with seatbelts.

I’ll skip the obvious. And focus on what you are focused on. Gunfire. For that we have to have those investigations I have been advocating for decades. We have to examine every event and figure out what can be done better. Reconstruct the events so we can learn what works and what doesn’t.

This way we can change the training to reflect strategies that work better to save lives.

And before you say it is bullshit. We learn all the time. At the start of Vietnam we continued the same battlefield care we used in World War 1 and through to Korea. One of the first things the medics did was pop the wounded guy with morphine. We had to take care of the pain.

During Vietnam we learned that this was actually killing our troops. It caused them to go into shock. We learned how to save more lives. That didn’t stop. It continued.

I remember the Democrats coming perilously close to complaining the body counts of American Dead were artificially low because of advanced lifesaving treatments during Iraq II.

We learned. And we are still learning. Coming up with new techniques to save lives.

How much we learn depends on our willingness to be brutally honest and examine accepted beliefs. We will never eliminate the deaths of cops. We can reduce the deaths. We will never eliminate the deaths of citizens. But we can reduce those numbers. Just as we have reduced the numbers of deaths of our troops.

We have to be willing to think outside the box. What we are doing now is building a better box to keep every one in.

I repeat, the current ratio of dead dirtbags to slain cops is ok with me

hopefully the cops will win every shootout and the felons will lose

in an allegedly colorblind society only racist care what the racial breakdown of the culprits happens to be

so the cries of institutional racism and white privilage fall on deaf ears with me

 

[Mac-7]

have to be willing to think outside the box. What we are doing now is building a better box to keep every one in.

Ok

here is my idea for police reform

accept only recruits who can pass the US Army Physical Fitness Test

and as part of the police basic training course place heavy emphasis on Mixed Martial Arts, particularly Brazilian Jujutsu .

pay those officers more for their physical skill and the dangers of being street police

And apply the same stands and PT test to female officers

if they cant measure up restrict them and tubby males to a lower paying desk job

retire street cops after 20 years at full pay and desk jockeys at 67

There is more but this is enough for now

I think officers who physically fit with martial arts skills will not fear the typical Black Lies Matter jerkoff and will be less likely to shoot them

 

[SavannahMann]

do you believe that law enforcement and their officers are the only occupation that can't do their job properly without full immunity for when they screw up or commit misconduct, along with the resultant consequences?

How many other occupations are routinely murdered on the job?

A lot more people die in other occupations than cops.

Top 25 most dangerous jobs in the United States

Roofers, power lineman, construction jobs are among the most dangerous jobs in the United States based on data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics Census of Fatal Occupational Injuries and studied by AdvisorSmith.

www.ishn.com

Cops are 21 on the list. Odd thi Most common fatal accidents: Violence and other injuries by persons or animals ng is that those other occupations don’t make more money. I mean. The most dangerous job should make a million a year right?

While everybody else on the list has transportation incidences, slips and falls and the reason for deaths, only the cops have this: "Most common fatal accidents: Violence and other injuries by persons or animals " We know what most of the animals look like. Say his name!

If your wife doesn’t come home from work. Do your children feel better because Mommy was crushed by a large excavator? If your Son is killed in an automobile accident. How much solace does the family feel if the other driver was just distracted and not drunk?

If your daughter is murdered by a madman, does it make anyone feel better if she was a waitress and not a cop?

The truth is that crime spikes don’t affect the police as much as the citizens. It is the citizens being robbed. Not the cops. It is the citizens being raped. Not cops. A vast majority of people murdered aren’t cops.

Last week a Soldier was killed at Fort Bragg. A training accident. She jumped out of a helicopter and died during the parachute training jump.

Fort Bragg paratrooper dies in accident during training jump

A news release from the division says Jenks was performing a static-line jump from a UH-60 Blackhawk helicopter on Monday when the accident occurred.

www.walb.com

Do you think her family felt better or worse because she wasn’t in combat? Do you think it mattered one damn bit to them that she was home and safe before she died?

As of today a majority of cops who died this year died from COVID. 55 so far. Last year was the same. Of the 360 deaths of police 232 were from COVID.

2020

461 law enforcement officers were killed in the line of duty in 2020.

www.odmp.org

So last year and so far this year the greatest threat facing the cops was a virus. Do you think their families would have preferred they were killed serving a warrant? How do you think the families feel hearing that their loved one was just weak and in no way reflective of the deadliness of the virus?

If you add up the accidental deaths from 2020 you find the cops were more likely to die from an accident than gunfire. But hey we have to focus on the wrong thing to make our point don’t we?

You don’t give a fuck about cops. So don’t pretend that you do.

I don't doubt all that made sense to you, but I think you're batshit crazy.

Ok. What did not make sense to you?

Nor much.

The truth is that more cops have died this year from COVID. Last year they were five or six times more likely to die from COVID.

So why is nobody screaming about the cops dying from COVID? Isn’t that the biggest threat?

X
Savannahman is correct about police deaths

excluding wuflu victims the cops had 128 line of duty deaths in 2020

whereas cops killed 181 blacks

and if anything I wish the numbers were even more skewed in the cops favor

because resisting arrest should be risky business for people of all colors

181 Black People Have Been Killed by Police Since George Floyd's Death

Black people accounted for 18.7 percent of police killings since May 25, 2020.

www.newsweek.com

Ok. We are making progress. If you subtract the accidental things. Vehicle accidents. Motorcycle accidents. Duty related illness. Whatever that is. You are left with 69 cops who were killed because of the intentional actions of another person.

By contrast you have more than a thousand who were shot and killed by police.

People shot to death by U.S. police, by race 2024 | Statista

The trend of fatal police shootings in the U.S. seems to only be increasing each year, with 1,097 civilians, 225 of whom were Black, killed by police in 2022.

www.statista.com

Oh and that shows at least 241 blacks were shot by police in 2020. Granted some of those may have been killed before Floyd.

But as I said. Making progress.

The largest group is Whites. White folks are apparently a bigger threat.

But hey. We have to worry about the folks less likely to kill cops. Just as we have to worry about cops getting shot. Despite the fact that shootings take up a small percentage of deaths. We have to pretend it is the greatest threat imaginable.

So what can we do to reduce police deaths? The easiest thing is to have cops wear seatbelts. 19 cops died in vehicle accidents. Cops rarely wear seatbelts because they want to be ready to jump out of the car. Five. Perhaps ten cops a year could live with seatbelts.

I’ll skip the obvious. And focus on what you are focused on. Gunfire. For that we have to have those investigations I have been advocating for decades. We have to examine every event and figure out what can be done better. Reconstruct the events so we can learn what works and what doesn’t.

This way we can change the training to reflect strategies that work better to save lives.

And before you say it is bullshit. We learn all the time. At the start of Vietnam we continued the same battlefield care we used in World War 1 and through to Korea. One of the first things the medics did was pop the wounded guy with morphine. We had to take care of the pain.

During Vietnam we learned that this was actually killing our troops. It caused them to go into shock. We learned how to save more lives. That didn’t stop. It continued.

I remember the Democrats coming perilously close to complaining the body counts of American Dead were artificially low because of advanced lifesaving treatments during Iraq II.

We learned. And we are still learning. Coming up with new techniques to save lives.

How much we learn depends on our willingness to be brutally honest and examine accepted beliefs. We will never eliminate the deaths of cops. We can reduce the deaths. We will never eliminate the deaths of citizens. But we can reduce those numbers. Just as we have reduced the numbers of deaths of our troops.

We have to be willing to think outside the box. What we are doing now is building a better box to keep every one in.

I repeat, the current ratio of dead dirtbags to slain cops is ok with me

hopefully the cops will win every shootout and the felons will lose

in an allegedly colorblind society only racist care what the racial breakdown of the culprits happens to be

so the cries of institutional racism and white privilage fall on deaf ears with me

Remember that when the next cop gets killed. When you are here trying to show how dangerous the cops jobs are. I’ll post a link to this reply.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Ok

here is my idea for police reform

accept only recruits who can pass the US Army Physical Fitness Test

and as part of the police basic training course place heavy emphasis on Mixed Martial Arts, particularly Brazilian Jujutsu .

pay those officers more for their physical skill and the dangers of being street police

And apply the same stands and PT test to female officers

if they cant measure up restrict them and tubby males to a lower paying desk job

retire street cops after 20 years at full pay and desk jockeys at 67

There is more but this is enough for now

I think officers who physically fit with martial arts skills will not fear the typical Black Lies Matter jerkoff and will be less likely to shoot them

We don't need police reform, we need citizen reform. Nearly all of these deaths happen because the suspect refuses to obey the orders of a police officer. You can reform the police all you like, but as long as lowlifes keep fighting with the police, then the only two choices an officer has is protect himself or allow the suspect to run away, even if it's a bank robber or murderer.

 

[Mac-7]

Ok

here is my idea for police reform

accept only recruits who can pass the US Army Physical Fitness Test

and as part of the police basic training course place heavy emphasis on Mixed Martial Arts, particularly Brazilian Jujutsu .

pay those officers more for their physical skill and the dangers of being street police

And apply the same stands and PT test to female officers

if they cant measure up restrict them and tubby males to a lower paying desk job

retire street cops after 20 years at full pay and desk jockeys at 67

There is more but this is enough for now

I think officers who physically fit with martial arts skills will not fear the typical Black Lies Matter jerkoff and will be less likely to shoot them

We don't need police reform, we need citizen reform. Nearly all of these deaths happen because the suspect refuses to obey the orders of a police officer. You can reform the police all you like, but as long as lowlifes keep fighting with the police, then the only two choices an officer has is protect himself or allow the suspect to run away, even if it's a bank robber or murderer.

Do you object to only hiring physically fit men to be cops on the street?

 

[donttread]

There is n

I expect this to be a contentious topic but one that should occur nonetheless

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/new-york-lawmakers-look-to-ban-cops-who-resign-are-fired-for-misconduct-from-being-rehired-elsewhere

Lawmakers in New York introduced joint legislation Saturday that would ban police officers who are forced to resign or are fired over disciplinary issues from being rehired in another jurisdiction in the state.

"Accountability is a must," state Sen. Brian Benjamin, a Democrat who is proposing the bill, told CBS News.

Police officers must be held to a higher standard because of their "power and the privilege to enforce the law," he said.

New York City Council Speaker Corey Johnson, who introduced a collaborative bill at the local level, said, "wandering officers" were "twice as likely to commit physical and sexual misconduct," the New York Daily News reported...

No amount of control will be enough for these people. These elites who disdain guns and cops except when they are routinely protected by guns and cops.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

o you object to only hiring physically fit men to be cops on the street?

Of course I do. I also think female cops should not be on the street. Have one or so in a patrol car for female suspects, but that's about it.

However the problem is not police having the muscle to take down criminals, the problem is suspects not listening to the police forcing them to defend themselves, and in some cases with deadly force.

 

[donttread]

Ok

here is my idea for police reform

accept only recruits who can pass the US Army Physical Fitness Test

and as part of the police basic training course place heavy emphasis on Mixed Martial Arts, particularly Brazilian Jujutsu .

pay those officers more for their physical skill and the dangers of being street police

And apply the same stands and PT test to female officers

if they cant measure up restrict them and tubby males to a lower paying desk job

retire street cops after 20 years at full pay and desk jockeys at 67

There is more but this is enough for now

I think officers who physically fit with martial arts skills will not fear the typical Black Lies Matter jerkoff and will be less likely to shoot them

We don't need police reform, we need citizen reform. Nearly all of these deaths happen because the suspect refuses to obey the orders of a police officer. You can reform the police all you like, but as long as lowlifes keep fighting with the police, then the only two choices an officer has is protect himself or allow the suspect to run away, even if it's a bank robber or murderer.

Exactly. We also need media reform , how dishonset is it to use half truths and made up phrases to selectively inform people that trust you? Near the bottom of the "that's low" barrel. There will be bad cops , there will be cops who panic ( like the recent case of the vetern officier who pulled the wrong weapon and killed a guy she had intended to tase. That is a tragic accident with no malise. Still they call for her head and will probably break stuff and hurt people if it isn't given to them. The narrative is that young black men are being hunted in the streets. The truth is that somewhere between 1,000 and 1,100 people are killed by the police each year. 94 % of them are armed, even more are resisting and most are white. Systemic racism as it applies to this subject has been disproven by Harvard and others. Turns out when a cop thinks someone is about to shoot them they don't give white guys free passes. Whom could of guessed?

 

[Mac-7]

However the problem is not police having the muscle to take down criminals, the problem is suspects not listening to the police forcing them to defend themselves, and in some cases with deadly force.

I disagree

the fundamental problem is stupid bleeding heart liberals who will never understand the problem

and that problem will never go away

so we have to beat them at their own game

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I disagree

the fundamental problem is stupid bleeding heart liberals who will never understand the problem

and that problem will never go away

so we have to beat them at their own game

That's hard to do given the fact all of these problems happen in liberal cities. You don't see any problems with police that are dominated by Republicans.

Besides the left not understanding the problem, they are uncivilized people. They riot before the incident is even investigated yet. They are also ignorant of our laws.

If they really cared about black lives in these liberal cities, they would have police officers do assemblies with students in junior high school and high school. They can explain to their audience of children why they do what they do. They can demonstrate how they were trained and why. You'd save a hell of a lot more lives in lower income areas that way than you could protesting or rioting. All that does is get you hurt, killed or imprisoned.

 

[SavannahMann]

That's hard to do given the fact all of these problems happen in liberal cities. You don't see any problems with police that are dominated by Republicans.

Yeah. That’s the propaganda.

OC sheriff’s deputies who lied on reports testify that they didn’t know it was illegal

The two deputies failed to book evidence, but falsified their reports to make it appear they had. A prosecutor gave them a lenient plea deal because they claimed they didn’t know such actions…

www.ocregister.com

Orange County. Republican Stronghold in Southern California. No way misconduct could happen there.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

First of all, possession of a CCW is not an occupation and isn't comparable to what we're talking about regarding the police losing qualified immunity although I do understand the point you're trying to make. Just don't agree with it though.

Secondly when referring to you and your dad's career, if you're speaking of indemnity where your employer agrees to bear the costs of any litigation or other expenses incurred by their workers, said worker can be sued in their official capacity or in their individual capacity, being indemnified only addresses the finances, not whether or not you can be sued.

From a judgment recovery/enforcement perspective in the event of a lawsuit win, the employer is generally the one with the deepest pockets therefore suing the person in their official capacity provides you with the best chance of recovering on judgement unless you just want to hold a judgment against the individual defendant for various reasons.

Thirdly let's go back to having a CCW. Simply possessing a CCW license does not confer upon the holder immunity from prosecution if they use their weapon, which is how you made it sound above. If you use your firearm to shoot and kill someone and you do so while out in public as opposed to on your own property, even if you're lawfully carrying your weapon with your CCW license, the police still have to make a determination of what actually happened and that usually requires an investigation. And they don't just return your weapon to you. If it was used in a fatal shooting, it's now evidence that will be confiscated at least until they have made a decision if charges are going to be filed, in which case it will be retained as evidence in the trial or return it to do if they decline to prosecute.

The way thing are currently, when an officer screws up or kills someone it's his employer who pays out on the lawsuits, the officers suffer no financial harm. And as far as I know the immunity extends to them not being prosecuted as well. So from a risk management perspective, what motivation do they have to be the best and most ethical civil servants possible? If they do things by the book or if they don't it's no skin off their nose all the way up to killing someone.

The following excerpt is for individuals who carry a firearm as part of their job in Washington State (CJTC firearm training manual). Why should it be any different for law enforcement?

The first problem we are having here is you're conflating criminal with civil law. They are not the same. If a person illegally uses their firearm, that's a crime. However if a person legally uses their firearm in a justified shooting, they can still face civil lawsuits by the attacker or his family if you kill them.

Ray I'm not conflating civil and criminal law you just appear to be oblivious to the fact that a single event or a series of events can be a violation of BOTH civil and criminal law.

If a private citizen illegally uses their weapon, it's a crime for which they can be prosecuted and incarcerated, however they can still be sued in a wrongful death lawsuit or for whatever damages they caused. A lot of criminals don't have anything to attach (money/assets to pay a damages judgment)

If a private citizen uses their weapon and it's determined that it was justified by the local authorities then no criminal charges will be filed but you are correct that the shooter can still be sued by the shooting victim if they survive or by their family if they do not. But don't forget just because the State declines to prosecute, the federal government can still investigate and charge the shooter if they feel that a violation of the victim's civil rights occurred.

If a police officer uses their weapon to kill someone, tradition has been that NOTHING happens to them personally, not financially nor criminally ( being prosecuted) even when their employer pays out millions to the shooting victims family in an wrongful death lawsuit (think Breonna Taylor). I don't know why you think this is comparable to CCW holders. More importantly, maybe you never go anywhere but I'm licensed to carry in more than half of the states in the U.S. and the laws are different in the individual states. It wasn't until I read about the Zimmerman case that I ever heard of using Stand Your Ground as an affirmative defense that allows you to just go on your merry way after having just killed someone but the state of Florida has some REALLY bad case law and precedents, it's also one of the states that I'm licensed in.

The point I'm making with a CCW is that police officers are held to the same standards of law that we citizens are with the exception of financial liability.

That statement is not even close to being true. There was a time when the state of Florida had posted on their website "A permit to carry a concealed weapon is NOT a permit to USE it. You must know the applicable laws regarding ......" I have tried to find that text many times but cannot. I can't remember if it was a part of the same quote or a different segment but they went on further to state that being issued a concealed carry permit does not confer police power upon the holder.

You must show that you had reason to believe you were in jeopardy of serious bodily harm or death, or you exercised that right to aid another person. In other words I'm at a store. Some armed maniac comes in demanding all the money from the cashier. I have every reason to believe that the cashier is in jeopardy of serious bodily harm or death, so I use my weapon to kill the robber. Perfectly legal.

Whether or not that is "perfectly legal" is debatable but it's stupid as hell. One of my mentors is also the firearm instructor and trainer who certifies me for my annual firearm re-qualifications and he has on more than one occasion stressed upon us that you don't risk your life over money/property. The businesses if they're operating properly are insured for whatever is being taken and your attempt to intervene could put the employees at even greater risk.

Can the police confiscate my weapon? Yes they can, but it must be returned to me in X amount of hours (I forget the time frame now) according to our laws. However in an open Iand shut case like the store robbery which is all on video, it's likely they'll just return your weapon because there is no need to investigate anything.

Well if you happen to find yourself in that exact scenario I hope you're right but I wouldn't bet anything I value on that being the case.

So our police officers (held to the same laws that I am) do care who they shoot and make damn sure they are within the constraints of the law. That's on top of the public retaliation a police officer could face putting his and his families life in jeopardy. We have a public that is ignorant of our laws, and these uneducated neanderthals are the ones who participate in protests and riots. The innocent officer may still lose his job, may not find another job in police work simply because of name association, and end his or her career. They have everything to lose, so taking away immunity only makes it worse.

You know who Pollyanna is right?

I've never participated in a riot but I have attended a few protests and rallies, one was the "I Will Not Comply" rally held on the state Capitol grounds in protest of a new and controversial gun control law passed in 2014. I've also marched with Black Lives Matter in downtown Seattle. You might be surprised to know that we had a police escort and I liaison with some of the Seattle PD officers when working at times.

If this message board is a microcosm of society, I agree that there are a lot of uneducated individuals both here and IRL but some of us are intelligent enough to know that knowledge can be found in many unexpected places and none of us are so knowledgeable about anything that we can't benefit from the wisdom and experiences of others.

And although the police and CCW holders DO NOT operate under identical standards and laws, I will concede that when talking a lawful self-defense claim the criteria is universal however do you honestly think you can shoot a fleeing criminal in the back and not be charged? Yet the police get away with that time and time again.

The immunity needs to go.

 

[Coyote]

This seems to be such a simple step its surprising that this measure is not already in place. So basically a cop sacked for misconduct in New York can join the police force in New Jersey. A recipe for disaster.

And what's more, the force he joins has no info on his past misconduct.