new phase of armored war in Ukraine?

[DudleySmith]

Why would you talk to Frank like that ? He's not a leftist.

Right wingers are wrong on this issue, but most are just happy to stump for the Party regardless of national interest, and besides Frank gives out shots all the time, so I doubt he's going to commit suicide or anything. I thank a lot of his posts; on this issue he's wrong is all.

 

[beagle9]

Right wingers are wrong on this issue, but most are just happy to stump for the Party regardless of national interest, and besides Frank gives out shots all the time, so I doubt he's going to commit suicide or anything. I thank a lot of his posts; on this issue he's wrong is all.

Got it... Yes differing opinion's are good, but JANE FONDA fan's ???? That's just wrong wraught thar..... ROTFLMBO

 

[DudleySmith]

Got it... Yes differing opinion's are good, but JANE FONDA fan's ???? That's just wrong wraught thar..... ROTFLMBO

lol hey they running around babbling about 'war mongers n stuff' as if the GOP is suddenly all about 'World Peace N Stuff'. They're just mindlessly bashing Biden is all; they should be demanding he actually show real support for stopping Putin's imperial fantasies.

 

[beagle9]

lol hey they running around babbling about 'war mongers n stuff' as if the GOP is suddenly all about 'World Peace N Stuff'. They're just mindlessly bashing Biden is all; they should be demanding he actually show real support for stopping Putin's imperial fantasies.

Uhhhhhh ummmmmm ok... I guess.. lol

 

[Flopper]

It is being reported by Crux that Russia is sending T-14s into Ukraine and Germany and Denmark may supply Ukrainian army with Leopard 2. Two of the best tanks today. But the Russians already know how to use theirs. How much training will Ukrainian crews need to master the Leopard 2? So it is hard to predict who wins.

You're assuming these Russians are well trained. That may or may not be true. Remember, Putin has a couple hundred thousand conscripts that he is trying to train so he can hopefully get new troops on the ground before winter hits hard. I see the war as a battle between might and commitment. It seems likely that might, being the Russians will win the war, that is claim victory. But what would they have won, a country that they will have to occupy for years fighting gorilla forces, a country that will have to be rebuilt at the cost of hundreds of billions that Russians will have to provide. Even when the Ukraine was part of the USSR, relations where never that good.

The US and NATO would be unlikely to recognized a Russia victory. I wonder if US and UN allies would continue to supply Ukraine forces through bordering NATO countries such as Poland, Hungry, and Romania. I think Ukrainians will continue to fight as long we supply them.

 

[DudleySmith]

Uhhhhhh ummmmmm ok... I guess.. lol

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2019/11/22/jane-fonda-spent-night-jail-her-mugshot-defined-feminist-rebellion/

lol the GOP's new role model!

 

[AlexanderPK]

You're assuming these Russians are well trained. That may or may not be true. Remember, Putin has a couple hundred thousand conscripts that he is trying to train so he can hopefully get new troops on the ground before winter hits hard. I see the war as a battle between might and commitment. It seems likely that might, being the Russians will win the war, that is claim victory. But what would they have won, a country that they will have to occupy for years fighting gorilla forces, a country that will have to be rebuilt at the cost of hundreds of billions that Russians will have to provide. Even when the Ukraine was part of the USSR, relations where never that good.

The US and NATO would be unlikely to recognized a Russia victory. I wonder if US and UN allies would continue to supply Ukraine forces through bordering NATO countries such as Poland, Hungry, and Romania. I think Ukrainians will continue to fight as long we supply them.

What if they won't claim the territory. They'll just destroy infrastructure and all the military of the Western and rump Ukraine and that will jump start the influx of refugees to Europe, which likes Ukrs, does it not? It will have to accommodate them and help those who stayed to somehow survive. Out of love for the needy, which seem to be the main reason it's been supporting Ukraine's fight for freedom. Russia all the while will be slowly acquiring regions that are crucial to it and that are mostly Russian in its essence: Odessa, Nikolaev, Kharkov, Transnistria etc, rooting out Nazies and their idiology. They'll hopefully remain more or less intact and won't need much of rebuilding. There'll be no guerrilla war, it's not 1941 after all and Russians are not Germans. Buchas are Banderites' doing, people will come to eventually. ;-)

 

[Flopper]

What if they won't claim the territory. They'll just destroy infrastructure and all the military of the Western and rump Ukraine and that will jump start the influx of refugees to Europe, which likes Ukrs, does it not? It will have to accommodate them and help those who stayed to somehow survive. Out of love for the needy, which seem to be the main reason it's been supporting Ukraine's fight for freedom. Russia all the while will be slowly acquiring regions that are crucial to it and that are mostly Russian in its essence: Odessa, Nikolaev, Kharkov, Transnistria etc, rooting out Nazies and their idiology. They'll hopefully remain more or less intact and won't need much of rebuilding. There'll be no guerrilla war, it's not 1941 after all and Russians are not Germans. Buchas are Banderites' doing, people will come to eventually. ;-)

If Russia continues the fight till it claims all Ukraine, I believe fighting will continue as long as the West supplies the Ukraine army. However, what seems to make more sense for Russia is to claim all of the far Eastern Ukraine, particularly the area near the sea, then end the war if the West will stop suppling arms to the Ukraine army. I think for Russia to try to take western Ukraine would be foolish. The closer the fighting comes to NATO, the more they will supply the Ukraine army and greater the chance of war with NATO and thus the US. I don't think Putin nor the Russian people want that.

 

[para bellum]

lol hey they running around babbling about 'war mongers n stuff' as if the GOP is suddenly all about 'World Peace N Stuff'. They're just mindlessly bashing Biden is all; they should be demanding he actually show real support for stopping Putin's imperial fantasies.

^x2.

This is where they lost me. LIfelong republican here, and my side is acting like a bunch of democrats. It's one false narrative after another, calling Ukrainians the nazis while Putin engages in genocide.

Biden is completely intimidated, the tiny handful of weapons we have provided have only been effective because the Russian army is so colossally incompetent.

This could have been over months ago if Biden wasn't such a coward, and people on this board who claim to be republicans are making him out to be some kind of a hawk!

FFS. What happened?

Being on the wrong side of history and boosting Biden's stature is just about the dumbest thing I have ever witnessed from (what used to be) my side.

 

[beagle9]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2019/11/22/jane-fonda-spent-night-jail-her-mugshot-defined-feminist-rebellion/

lol the GOP's new role model!

Why would you say this ?

 

[Flopper]

^x2.

This is where they lost me. LIfelong republican here, and my side is acting like a bunch of democrats. It's one false narrative after another, calling Ukrainians the nazis while Putin engages in genocide.

Biden is completely intimidated, the tiny handful of weapons we have provided have only been effective because the Russian army is so colossally incompetent.

This could have been over months ago if Biden wasn't such a coward, and people on this board who claim to be republicans are making him out to be some kind of a hawk!

FFS. What happened?

Being on the wrong side of history and boosting Biden's stature is just about the dumbest thing I have ever witnessed from (what used to be) my side.

Yes, it could have been over months ago or half the planet could be a pile of smoking rubble. I think Biden is doing exactly what our military and intelligence services are recommending. Pushing Putin in a corner and hoping he doesn't cross the line is a gamble that is just not worth it. When Putin gets what he wants in the Ukraine which is mostly the seaports and the eastern corridor to the sea, Putin will stop the fighting. This is extremely costly for Russia and Putin is losing support in Russia bit by bit.

 

[DudleySmith]

^x2.

This is where they lost me. LIfelong republican here, and my side is acting like a bunch of democrats. It's one false narrative after another, calling Ukrainians the nazis while Putin engages in genocide.

Biden is completely intimidated, the tiny handful of weapons we have provided have only been effective because the Russian army is so colossally incompetent.

This could have been over months ago if Biden wasn't such a coward, and people on this board who claim to be republicans are making him out to be some kind of a hawk!

FFS. What happened?

Being on the wrong side of history and boosting Biden's stature is just about the dumbest thing I have ever witnessed from (what used to be) my side.

It's all about The Party for both sides, screw the country. We did nothing under Obama, and it only encouraged Putin to grab more; calling anybody who opposes his military invasions 'warmongers' is just stupid. We know who the warmonger is, and it isn't the U.S.

 

[beagle9]

^x2.

This is where they lost me. LIfelong republican here, and my side is acting like a bunch of democrats. It's one false narrative after another, calling Ukrainians the nazis while Putin engages in genocide.

Biden is completely intimidated, the tiny handful of weapons we have provided have only been effective because the Russian army is so colossally incompetent.

This could have been over months ago if Biden wasn't such a coward, and people on this board who claim to be republicans are making him out to be some kind of a hawk!

FFS. What happened?

Being on the wrong side of history and boosting Biden's stature is just about the dumbest thing I have ever witnessed from (what used to be) my side.

What's throwing us off (the republican's), is the very fact that if a Democrat is supporting something, then you can bet your bottom dollar that there is something very wrong in the situation, especially concerning Ukraine where a VP once said to them that "if they didn't fire the prosecutor, then they weren't getting the money", otherwise a quid pro quo and on and on it all went. So excuse us if we don't trust a damned thing the Democrat's do, say or support.

Get the Democrat's out of it in November, especially Joe lie-den, and maybe we could get behind something that we might trust again.

 

[para bellum]

What's throwing us off (the republican's), is the very fact that if a Democrat is supporting something, then you can bet your bottom dollar that there is something very wrong in the situation

I only quoted this part of your post because the rest is something we already know. This part is where you lose me. This is deciding based on our own broken domestic politics whether or not innocent Ukrainian civilians are worth saving.

We used to say "politics ends at the water's edge". I know the dems no longer believe in that, but I still do, and I thought republicans did too.

There is plenty of room to be critical of Biden, and still take the principled position on Ukraine. A handful of MRLS launchers and some towed howitzers are a little more than a veneer of support.

 

[Dayton3]

I only quoted this part of your post because the rest is something we already know. This part is where you lose me. This is deciding based on our own broken domestic politics whether or not innocent Ukrainian civilians are worth saving.

We used to say "politics ends at the water's edge". I know the dems no longer believe in that, but I still do, and I thought republicans did too.

There is plenty of room to be critical of Biden, and still take the principled position on Ukraine. A handful of MRLS launchers and some towed howitzers are a little more than a veneer of support.

true to a point, but enough MLRS launchers and the tide could easily turn.

 

[para bellum]

true to a point, but enough MLRS launchers and the tide could easily turn.

Hell, just providing ATACMS would go a long way to deterring Putin. Limit them to military targets, but if those happens to include the Kerch Bridge or Sevastopol Bay or MIllerovo Air Base- well, so be it.

When Russia launches a missile at Ukraine, it should get one right back.

 

[beagle9]

I only quoted this part of your post because the rest is something we already know. This part is where you lose me. This is deciding based on our own broken domestic politics whether or not innocent Ukrainian civilians are worth saving.

We used to say "politics ends at the water's edge". I know the dems no longer believe in that, but I still do, and I thought republicans did too.

There is plenty of room to be critical of Biden, and still take the principled position on Ukraine. A handful of MRLS launchers and some towed howitzers are a little more than a veneer of support.

What exactly do we know about Ukraine? That's my problem with it all. All I know is what is said, and then what I've actually heard with my ears about Biden and his son being caught up in corruption in that place willingly, and for money.

Without proper investigation's we are done. Being the world police for politician's is a super scary thing, because we are only as good as we appear on the surface, but beneath we might be (now) "rotten to the core".

 

[para bellum]

What exactly do we know about Ukraine? That's my problem with it all. All I know is what is said, and then what I've actually heard with my ears about Biden and his son being caught up in corruption in that place willingly, and for money.

Without proper investigation's we are done. Being the world police for politician's is a super scary thing, because we are only as good as we appear on the surface, but beneath we might be (now) "rotten to the core".

I get that. I know the corruption of Biden's "family business" model of politics. He's not the only one either. I've read the State emails, and learned who all the people surrounding him were, and I know they are the same people surrounding him today. I hate all that as much as you do.

I can't allow that to taint my feelings towards the victims of this senseless war, who have nothing to do with Biden's corruption or Putin's geopolitical grievances.

 

[beagle9]

I only quoted this part of your post because the rest is something we already know. This part is where you lose me. This is deciding based on our own broken domestic politics whether or not innocent Ukrainian civilians are worth saving.

We used to say "politics ends at the water's edge". I know the dems no longer believe in that, but I still do, and I thought republicans did too.

There is plenty of room to be critical of Biden, and still take the principled position on Ukraine. A handful of MRLS launchers and some towed howitzers are a little more than a veneer of support.

Listen, so you have this knowledge maybe of Ukraine being the good guy's, but we don't have proof of this actually being the case. Just because Putin decided to up the stakes by going into Ukraine because of the war that was started between the two in 2014, doesn't help us to know anything about that war as citizen's of the USA. Hell we can't trust our own anymore here, but we are somehow supposed to side with one or the other in a far away place in which our politicians and elite are somehow tied up in ? Otherwise tied up in something that we've had some bad information about so far, otherwise when it came to the VP Biden and his son Hunter.

Thinking that you can just get people to stare down a nuclear power or to make war with it without truly laying it all out on the table for all to see, uhhhhhhh isn't a very good strategy to win American's hearts and mind's completely over to the Ukranian's side, otherwise without them scratching their heads thinking no we don't need an indirect nuclear conflict as a result of taking sides without truly having the truth (without a doubt) before going full bore war whether proxy or other.

So far we don't have that truth, because if we did we would be staring Putin down, and standing on the truth in order to back him down eventually.

 

[beagle9]

I get that. I know the corruption of Biden's "family business" model of politics. He's not the only one either. I've read the State emails, and learned who all the people surrounding him were, and I know they are the same people surrounding him today. I hate all that as much as you do.

I can't allow that to taint my feelings towards the victims of this senseless war, who have nothing to do with Biden's corruption or Putin's geopolitical grievances.

I agree, and I think about the poor folk's who are suffering at the point of a war that no one truly knows the truth about, otherwise except by what a crooked politician tells us these days. After what they done to Trump for 4 year's, I have absolutely no care for the Democrat's or care for anyone who supports them today.

The good Lord shall have a place for the innocent for whom are taken from this world at the hand's of evilness, otherwise an evilness that has since run amuck.

He'll also have a place for those who are evil and hurts man in his site, so as a man goes about slapping himself on the back saying I'm the end all of the thing's of this world as we know it, when in fact he's nothing but filthy rags in God's site, and he will end nothing by his hand in this world unless it is allowed for him to do so.

Remember death as we know it in this world, is nothing but a transition from this world to the next.

Remember also that "Man can kill man in the first death within the world, but it is that we shall fear he who has the keys to hell, and can take one's life for the second death.