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Well good for you,you being the only researcher and all.yes they do what yu live in a cave?They researched it and figured out they have emotions and have feelings. Ultrasounds are unbelievable now. So proving a fetus is a living being. Is the first step!this is a dumb thread. There is no neurological test for
"experience" ------the only way to know has a person
"feels" is by asking "how do you feel"? One can infer
but not actually determine "experience" Withdrawal
is a reflex. Electric potentials thru nerve fibers does not
prove conscious perception ------even a facial expression
consistent with "pain" ---does not prove conscious perception..
I would be very surprised if the electrical potentials that
happen ---across the nerve fibers leading from the finger-
tip to the spinal cord and up to the brain did NOT happen
in the fetus------SO??? that does not prove the fetus
has consciousness. Even a later EVOKED potential
across the brain does not prove consciousness.
For the record-----amebas exhibit withdrawal on
"touch"
"they researched it" "they proved it" HOW?----emotions do not show up on either imaging or electrical studies
Know they don't ---------ask me------I have done research in
evoked potentials--------
Science will prove abortion is murder, and with that I bet liberals will hate science.Well good for you,you being the only researcher and all.yes they do what yu live in a cave?They researched it and figured out they have emotions and have feelings. Ultrasounds are unbelievable now. So proving a fetus is a living being. Is the first step!this is a dumb thread. There is no neurological test for
"experience" ------the only way to know has a person
"feels" is by asking "how do you feel"? One can infer
but not actually determine "experience" Withdrawal
is a reflex. Electric potentials thru nerve fibers does not
prove conscious perception ------even a facial expression
consistent with "pain" ---does not prove conscious perception..
I would be very surprised if the electrical potentials that
happen ---across the nerve fibers leading from the finger-
tip to the spinal cord and up to the brain did NOT happen
in the fetus------SO??? that does not prove the fetus
has consciousness. Even a later EVOKED potential
across the brain does not prove consciousness.
For the record-----amebas exhibit withdrawal on
"touch"
"they researched it" "they proved it" HOW?----emotions do not show up on either imaging or electrical studies
Know they don't ---------ask me------I have done research in
evoked potentials--------
Brain scan clearly show emotions ,pain reaction to out side stimulus,this has been done years ago nothing new.Even in unborn human babies,shocking as that my be.
One can hope,I just go with the common sense angle,it sure isn't a Labrador in there,left alone always comes out a person,every single time.Its really that simpleScience will prove abortion is murder, and with that I bet liberals will hate science.Well good for you,you being the only researcher and all.yes they do what yu live in a cave?They researched it and figured out they have emotions and have feelings. Ultrasounds are unbelievable now. So proving a fetus is a living being. Is the first step!
"they researched it" "they proved it" HOW?----emotions do not show up on either imaging or electrical studies
Know they don't ---------ask me------I have done research in
evoked potentials--------
Brain scan clearly show emotions ,pain reaction to out side stimulus,this has been done years ago nothing new.Even in unborn human babies,shocking as that my be.
this is a dumb thread. There is no neurological test for
"experience" ------the only way to know has a person
"feels" is by asking "how do you feel"? One can infer
but not actually determine "experience" Withdrawal
is a reflex. Electric potentials thru nerve fibers does not
prove conscious perception ------even a facial expression
consistent with "pain" ---does not prove conscious perception..
I would be very surprised if the electrical potentials that
happen ---across the nerve fibers leading from the finger-
tip to the spinal cord and up to the brain did NOT happen
in the fetus------SO??? that does not prove the fetus
has consciousness. Even a later EVOKED potential
across the brain does not prove consciousness.
For the record-----amebas exhibit withdrawal on
"touch"
Oh yes we know the Jewish view, its a human being when it takes its first breath, (I hate calling it a it) isn't that right?
who is "we"??? Induced abortion is illegal in jewish law----unless the procedure is necessary to the life and well being of the mother. In English----the correct pronoun for
"baby" is "it" for fetus "it" in fact even for "child" ---"it". The fact that you "hate" grammar is obvious.
You seem to imagine you know jewish law-------wrong again--- persons adherent to jewish law are bound by that law
not only to not allow un-necessary abortion-----they are
bound to jump thru hoops to avoid-----accidental abortion
(the thing usually called miscarriage)
[
Oh so Israel is not like the golden standard for Jews then.
See I know they offer free abortions in Israel well just because the person wants one. I noted this on the ACLU website a few years ago, the Pres of the ACLU is Jewish as you know, the Jewish women were on the website pushing for government paid abortions in the US.
not only do you know nothing about jewish law-----you know
nothing about Israeli law. Abortion on demand does not exist in Israel----neither is it "free" That which IS true----if a woman has a good reason for an abortion-----she can get it-----without much struggle. Generally she is also instructed by buy an IUD-----and the doctor inserts it after
the abortion A reason for an abortion in Israel can be the
EMOTIONAL HEALTH of the mother------there has to be a reason-------SEE? your reading of islamo Nazi pig and sow
propaganda has you confused. There are probably less abortions done in Israel per capita that are done in the dung heap that spawned you. As to the "free" bullshit story of the islamo Nazi pig and sow literature you read----NOPE-----people in Israel pay for a universal type health insurance--------a program which the USA is trying to APE
One can hope,I just go with the common sense angle,it sure isn't a Labrador in there,left alone always comes out a person,every single time.Its really that simpleScience will prove abortion is murder, and with that I bet liberals will hate science.Well good for you,you being the only researcher and all.yes they do what yu live in a cave?"they researched it" "they proved it" HOW?----emotions do not show up on either imaging or electrical studies
Know they don't ---------ask me------I have done research in
evoked potentials--------
Brain scan clearly show emotions ,pain reaction to out side stimulus,this has been done years ago nothing new.Even in unborn human babies,shocking as that my be.
this is a dumb thread. There is no neurological test for
"experience" ------the only way to know has a person
"feels" is by asking "how do you feel"? One can infer
but not actually determine "experience" Withdrawal
is a reflex. Electric potentials thru nerve fibers does not
prove conscious perception ------even a facial expression
consistent with "pain" ---does not prove conscious perception..
I would be very surprised if the electrical potentials that
happen ---across the nerve fibers leading from the finger-
tip to the spinal cord and up to the brain did NOT happen
in the fetus------SO??? that does not prove the fetus
has consciousness. Even a later EVOKED potential
across the brain does not prove consciousness.
For the record-----amebas exhibit withdrawal on
"touch"
Oh yes we know the Jewish view, its a human being when it takes its first breath, (I hate calling it a it) isn't that right?
who is "we"??? Induced abortion is illegal in jewish law----unless the procedure is necessary to the life and well being of the mother. In English----the correct pronoun for
"baby" is "it" for fetus "it" in fact even for "child" ---"it". The fact that you "hate" grammar is obvious.
You seem to imagine you know jewish law-------wrong again--- persons adherent to jewish law are bound by that law
not only to not allow un-necessary abortion-----they are
bound to jump thru hoops to avoid-----accidental abortion
(the thing usually called miscarriage)
[
Oh so Israel is not like the golden standard for Jews then.
See I know they offer free abortions in Israel well just because the person wants one. I noted this on the ACLU website a few years ago, the Pres of the ACLU is Jewish as you know, the Jewish women were on the website pushing for government paid abortions in the US.
not only do you know nothing about jewish law-----you know
nothing about Israeli law. Abortion on demand does not exist in Israel----neither is it "free" That which IS true----if a woman has a good reason for an abortion-----she can get it-----without much struggle. Generally she is also instructed by buy an IUD-----and the doctor inserts it after
the abortion A reason for an abortion in Israel can be the
EMOTIONAL HEALTH of the mother------there has to be a reason-------SEE? your reading of islamo Nazi pig and sow
propaganda has you confused. There are probably less abortions done in Israel per capita that are done in the dung heap that spawned you. As to the "free" bullshit story of the islamo Nazi pig and sow literature you read----NOPE-----people in Israel pay for a universal type health insurance--------a program which the USA is trying to APE
ah your not up on the new laws, free for what women from 20 to 33, no reason needed and gov funded.
One can hope,I just go with the common sense angle,it sure isn't a Labrador in there,left alone always comes out a person,every single time.Its really that simpleScience will prove abortion is murder, and with that I bet liberals will hate science.Well good for you,you being the only researcher and all.yes they do what yu live in a cave?"they researched it" "they proved it" HOW?----emotions do not show up on either imaging or electrical studies
Know they don't ---------ask me------I have done research in
evoked potentials--------
Brain scan clearly show emotions ,pain reaction to out side stimulus,this has been done years ago nothing new.Even in unborn human babies,shocking as that my be.
Oh yes we know the Jewish view, its a human being when it takes its first breath, (I hate calling it a it) isn't that right?
who is "we"??? Induced abortion is illegal in jewish law----unless the procedure is necessary to the life and well being of the mother. In English----the correct pronoun for
"baby" is "it" for fetus "it" in fact even for "child" ---"it". The fact that you "hate" grammar is obvious.
You seem to imagine you know jewish law-------wrong again--- persons adherent to jewish law are bound by that law
not only to not allow un-necessary abortion-----they are
bound to jump thru hoops to avoid-----accidental abortion
(the thing usually called miscarriage)
[
Oh so Israel is not like the golden standard for Jews then.
See I know they offer free abortions in Israel well just because the person wants one. I noted this on the ACLU website a few years ago, the Pres of the ACLU is Jewish as you know, the Jewish women were on the website pushing for government paid abortions in the US.
not only do you know nothing about jewish law-----you know
nothing about Israeli law. Abortion on demand does not exist in Israel----neither is it "free" That which IS true----if a woman has a good reason for an abortion-----she can get it-----without much struggle. Generally she is also instructed by buy an IUD-----and the doctor inserts it after
the abortion A reason for an abortion in Israel can be the
EMOTIONAL HEALTH of the mother------there has to be a reason-------SEE? your reading of islamo Nazi pig and sow
propaganda has you confused. There are probably less abortions done in Israel per capita that are done in the dung heap that spawned you. As to the "free" bullshit story of the islamo Nazi pig and sow literature you read----NOPE-----people in Israel pay for a universal type health insurance--------a program which the USA is trying to APE
ah your not up on the new laws, free for what women from 20 to 33, no reason needed and gov funded.
really? from age 20 to 33? 40 year old women need not apply ? and they do not need to be on the insurance
plan? why the age restrictions? what are "what women"? you have a link???-------the government just pays? can tourists get it too?
Oh so Israel is not like the golden standard for Jews then.
See I know they offer free abortions in Israel well just because the person wants one. I noted this on the ACLU website a few years ago, the Pres of the ACLU is Jewish as you know, the Jewish women were on the website pushing for government paid abortions in the US.
not only do you know nothing about jewish law-----you know
nothing about Israeli law. Abortion on demand does not exist in Israel----neither is it "free" That which IS true----if a woman has a good reason for an abortion-----she can get it-----without much struggle. Generally she is also instructed by buy an IUD-----and the doctor inserts it after
the abortion A reason for an abortion in Israel can be the
EMOTIONAL HEALTH of the mother------there has to be a reason-------SEE? your reading of islamo Nazi pig and sow
propaganda has you confused. There are probably less abortions done in Israel per capita that are done in the dung heap that spawned you. As to the "free" bullshit story of the islamo Nazi pig and sow literature you read----NOPE-----people in Israel pay for a universal type health insurance--------a program which the USA is trying to APE
ah your not up on the new laws, free for what women from 20 to 33, no reason needed and gov funded.
really? from age 20 to 33? 40 year old women need not apply ? and they do not need to be on the insurance
plan? why the age restrictions? what are "what women"? you have a link???-------the government just pays? can tourists get it too?
Just google abortion in Israel. I am not quoting from any specific article. I imagine one needs to be a citizen to qualify for their healthcare.
Oh so Israel is not like the golden standard for Jews then.
See I know they offer free abortions in Israel well just because the person wants one. I noted this on the ACLU website a few years ago, the Pres of the ACLU is Jewish as you know, the Jewish women were on the website pushing for government paid abortions in the US.
not only do you know nothing about jewish law-----you know
nothing about Israeli law. Abortion on demand does not exist in Israel----neither is it "free" That which IS true----if a woman has a good reason for an abortion-----she can get it-----without much struggle. Generally she is also instructed by buy an IUD-----and the doctor inserts it after
the abortion A reason for an abortion in Israel can be the
EMOTIONAL HEALTH of the mother------there has to be a reason-------SEE? your reading of islamo Nazi pig and sow
propaganda has you confused. There are probably less abortions done in Israel per capita that are done in the dung heap that spawned you. As to the "free" bullshit story of the islamo Nazi pig and sow literature you read----NOPE-----people in Israel pay for a universal type health insurance--------a program which the USA is trying to APE
ah your not up on the new laws, free for what women from 20 to 33, no reason needed and gov funded.
really? from age 20 to 33? 40 year old women need not apply ? and they do not need to be on the insurance
plan? why the age restrictions? what are "what women"? you have a link???-------the government just pays? can tourists get it too?
Just google abortion in Israel. I am not quoting from any specific article. I imagine one needs to be a citizen to qualify for their healthcare.
Ok I will google -------The law as far as I know is as I stated---using the state insurance----if a woman has a reason 'for abortion ----the situation is covered.. In fact the doc has
to justify it for REASON-----you claim that if a woman is between the ages of 20-33---she gets it on demand---cost free---just for being a citizen of Israel-----ok ----I got it
Well with excuses like that who needs a reason:
Israel’s abortion law now among world’s most liberal
Despite its conservative leanings, government approves free pregnancy termination for nearly all women, and it barely causes a ripple
By Debra KaminJanuary 6, 2014, 4:08 am
Israel, a nation with a forceful religious lobby and a conservative prime minister, is poised to offer its female citizens some of the most liberal abortion coverage in the world.
The nation’s Health Ministry commission, led by Dr. Yonatan Halevy, last week announced its state-subsidized “health basket,” the package of medications and services that all Israeli citizens are entitled to under the nation’s health care system. It was approved by the cabinet on Sunday. The health basket is analyzed and amended on an annual basis, and among the many additional treatments to be offered to Israelis in 2014 are free-of-charge abortions for women ages 20-33.
Outside of those regulations, women can apply for abortions for reasons ranging from an emotional or mental threat caused by the pregnancy or for not being married to the baby’s father. All women who seek to end a pregnancy must appear before a three-member committee to state their case, but 98 percent of requests are approved. Women under the age of 20 or over the age of 40 were also previously eligible for subsidized abortions, regardless of the reason.
With the newly amended health care package, however, funding will now be available for more than 6,000 additional women seeking to terminate their pregnancies, at the cost at some NIS 16 million ($4.6 million). No medical reason for the abortion is required.
“We want large families in Israel. We definitely encourage birth,” he says. “But when pregnancy occurs and it is undesired or inadvertent, I think we should supply the means to end the pregnancy properly.”
Read more: Israel's abortion law now among world's most liberal | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/israels-abortion-law-now-among-worlds-most-liberal/#ixzz3RI6kulFW
Follow us: @timesofisrael on Twitter | timesofisrael on Facebook
Sounds rather strick to me Irosie.
A research study came out today that states a baby in the womb in the utero stage can feel happiness, fear, and anger. By 8 weeks they have the sense of touch. By 13 they experience the sense of taste. A german researcher named Ludwig Janus states.
Do you have a link for the study?
Rules of the board says you need a link and a brief commit to open new threads or you risk having it shut down.
Just saying in case you didn't know it............
A research study came out today that states a baby in the womb in the utero stage can feel happiness, fear, and anger. By 8 weeks they have the sense of touch. By 13 they experience the sense of taste. A german researcher named Ludwig Janus states.
Do you have a link for the study?
Rules of the board says you need a link and a brief commit to open new threads or you risk having it shut down.
Just saying in case you didn't know it............
Unborn Babies Feel Anger and Joy Psychotherapist s Study Says LifeNews.com
And they kick too!
No they researched and took a guess.They researched it and figured out they have emotions and have feelings. Ultrasounds are unbelievable now. So proving a fetus is a living being. Is the first step!this is a dumb thread. There is no neurological test for
"experience" ------the only way to know has a person
"feels" is by asking "how do you feel"? One can infer
but not actually determine "experience" Withdrawal
is a reflex. Electric potentials thru nerve fibers does not
prove conscious perception ------even a facial expression
consistent with "pain" ---does not prove conscious perception..
I would be very surprised if the electrical potentials that
happen ---across the nerve fibers leading from the finger-
tip to the spinal cord and up to the brain did NOT happen
in the fetus------SO??? that does not prove the fetus
has consciousness. Even a later EVOKED potential
across the brain does not prove consciousness.
For the record-----amebas exhibit withdrawal on
"touch"
No they researched and took a guess.They researched it and figured out they have emotions and have feelings. Ultrasounds are unbelievable now. So proving a fetus is a living being. Is the first step!this is a dumb thread. There is no neurological test for
"experience" ------the only way to know has a person
"feels" is by asking "how do you feel"? One can infer
but not actually determine "experience" Withdrawal
is a reflex. Electric potentials thru nerve fibers does not
prove conscious perception ------even a facial expression
consistent with "pain" ---does not prove conscious perception..
I would be very surprised if the electrical potentials that
happen ---across the nerve fibers leading from the finger-
tip to the spinal cord and up to the brain did NOT happen
in the fetus------SO??? that does not prove the fetus
has consciousness. Even a later EVOKED potential
across the brain does not prove consciousness.
For the record-----amebas exhibit withdrawal on
"touch"
Well with excuses like that who needs a reason:
Israel’s abortion law now among world’s most liberal
Despite its conservative leanings, government approves free pregnancy termination for nearly all women, and it barely causes a ripple
By Debra KaminJanuary 6, 2014, 4:08 am
Israel, a nation with a forceful religious lobby and a conservative prime minister, is poised to offer its female citizens some of the most liberal abortion coverage in the world.
The nation’s Health Ministry commission, led by Dr. Yonatan Halevy, last week announced its state-subsidized “health basket,” the package of medications and services that all Israeli citizens are entitled to under the nation’s health care system. It was approved by the cabinet on Sunday. The health basket is analyzed and amended on an annual basis, and among the many additional treatments to be offered to Israelis in 2014 are free-of-charge abortions for women ages 20-33.
Outside of those regulations, women can apply for abortions for reasons ranging from an emotional or mental threat caused by the pregnancy or for not being married to the baby’s father. All women who seek to end a pregnancy must appear before a three-member committee to state their case, but 98 percent of requests are approved. Women under the age of 20 or over the age of 40 were also previously eligible for subsidized abortions, regardless of the reason.
With the newly amended health care package, however, funding will now be available for more than 6,000 additional women seeking to terminate their pregnancies, at the cost at some NIS 16 million ($4.6 million). No medical reason for the abortion is required.
“We want large families in Israel. We definitely encourage birth,” he says. “But when pregnancy occurs and it is undesired or inadvertent, I think we should supply the means to end the pregnancy properly.”
Read more: Israel's abortion law now among world's most liberal | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/israels-abortion-law-now-among-worlds-most-liberal/#ixzz3RI6kulFW
Follow us: @timesofisrael on Twitter | timesofisrael on Facebook
Sounds rather strick to me Irosie.
if your "strick" means "strict" I never said it was strict---
I said that the woman and doctor must provide a REASON.
The reason can be "I cannot bear another child because...."
and she can cite a reason why doing so would cause her
emotional distress or some problem that would harm
her SENSE of well being. It need not be an actual threat
to her life-----just a threat to her well being. What she
cannot do is use abortion as a convenient form of birth
control. It is a very liberal policy You got a problem
with that? Since unlike you I know the situation in its
practical terms------what comes out of it is that women
are very much discouraged using abortion as birth
control------their docs insist that they use conventional
methods of birth control-----they favor IUD's
Maybe now they are doing depoprovera-----I will try
to find out. The system works fine---especially for the
WELL BENG of the women. The argument of
"well-being" for the pregnant woman overcomes even
the religious objection. ------usually.
In the system in the USA----doctors doing abortions
charge lots-------and have no idea what the woman
has done before-------and has no responsibility to know
if he prefers not to This policy leads to problems for
careless and naïve women-----the lack of availability
for poor unmarried girls is a danger to them----and
USING THE FAMILY insurance policy is a problem for
married women. It is true that Israel is a very soft touch
for pregnant women-------you object?
Brain scans most certainly do and have and will in the future,,keep telling yourself false hoods is kinda crazy.One can hope,I just go with the common sense angle,it sure isn't a Labrador in there,left alone always comes out a person,every single time.Its really that simpleScience will prove abortion is murder, and with that I bet liberals will hate science.Well good for you,you being the only researcher and all.yes they do what yu live in a cave?
Know they don't ---------ask me------I have done research in
evoked potentials--------
Brain scan clearly show emotions ,pain reaction to out side stimulus,this has been done years ago nothing new.Even in unborn human babies,shocking as that my be.
wrong again imaging does not show emotions----
including functional PET-----there are correlations----that's it---
Well with excuses like that who needs a reason:
Israel’s abortion law now among world’s most liberal
Despite its conservative leanings, government approves free pregnancy termination for nearly all women, and it barely causes a ripple
By Debra KaminJanuary 6, 2014, 4:08 am
Israel, a nation with a forceful religious lobby and a conservative prime minister, is poised to offer its female citizens some of the most liberal abortion coverage in the world.
The nation’s Health Ministry commission, led by Dr. Yonatan Halevy, last week announced its state-subsidized “health basket,” the package of medications and services that all Israeli citizens are entitled to under the nation’s health care system. It was approved by the cabinet on Sunday. The health basket is analyzed and amended on an annual basis, and among the many additional treatments to be offered to Israelis in 2014 are free-of-charge abortions for women ages 20-33.
Outside of those regulations, women can apply for abortions for reasons ranging from an emotional or mental threat caused by the pregnancy or for not being married to the baby’s father. All women who seek to end a pregnancy must appear before a three-member committee to state their case, but 98 percent of requests are approved. Women under the age of 20 or over the age of 40 were also previously eligible for subsidized abortions, regardless of the reason.
With the newly amended health care package, however, funding will now be available for more than 6,000 additional women seeking to terminate their pregnancies, at the cost at some NIS 16 million ($4.6 million). No medical reason for the abortion is required.
“We want large families in Israel. We definitely encourage birth,” he says. “But when pregnancy occurs and it is undesired or inadvertent, I think we should supply the means to end the pregnancy properly.”
Read more: Israel's abortion law now among world's most liberal | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/israels-abortion-law-now-among-worlds-most-liberal/#ixzz3RI6kulFW
Follow us: @timesofisrael on Twitter | timesofisrael on Facebook
Sounds rather strick to me Irosie.
if your "strick" means "strict" I never said it was strict---
I said that the woman and doctor must provide a REASON.
The reason can be "I cannot bear another child because...."
and she can cite a reason why doing so would cause her
emotional distress or some problem that would harm
her SENSE of well being. It need not be an actual threat
to her life-----just a threat to her well being. What she
cannot do is use abortion as a convenient form of birth
control. It is a very liberal policy You got a problem
with that? Since unlike you I know the situation in its
practical terms------what comes out of it is that women
are very much discouraged using abortion as birth
control------their docs insist that they use conventional
methods of birth control-----they favor IUD's
Maybe now they are doing depoprovera-----I will try
to find out. The system works fine---especially for the
WELL BENG of the women. The argument of
"well-being" for the pregnant woman overcomes even
the religious objection. ------usually.
In the system in the USA----doctors doing abortions
charge lots-------and have no idea what the woman
has done before-------and has no responsibility to know
if he prefers not to This policy leads to problems for
careless and naïve women-----the lack of availability
for poor unmarried girls is a danger to them----and
USING THE FAMILY insurance policy is a problem for
married women. It is true that Israel is a very soft touch
for pregnant women-------you object?
My opinion is life begins at inception, but I am not going to push my beliefs on others. The big problem is if these women are getting pregnant that means they are not using condoms (I realize some condoms can get a hole in and some sperm may get free) so that opens them up to VD's, HIV and even cervical Ca, not only an unwanted pregnancy. I am not for the return of backstreet abortions by any means, and yes pretty much anyone here can get an abortion. They, the man and woman should have to pay for it, then they won't mind dishing out the few bucks next time for condoms. I have no idea what an abortion costs. Do you?
