New Book Entitled "Waco" Examines the 1993 Assault on the Branch Davidian Compound--Fresh Air NPR Program

[martybegan]

Right. Um, guy, there were three investigations of Waco, including the one by Republican John Danforth, that completely debunked all the conspiracy theories.

The front door was missing because the house burned down. Duh.


I'm glad they didn't grow up to be a bunch of welfare cheats like their parents were.

I think half of them were Koresh's kids he fathered on his various brides. So it was kind of on him to take care of them.



Just the crazy Trump cultists...
The J6 Traitors are getting their comeuppance.

No traitors there, just show trial victims mostly.

meanwhile anti-fa types get slapped on the wrist, like those two morons in NYC.

 

[candycorn]

I'm glad they didn't grow up to be a bunch of welfare cheats like their parents were.

I think half of them were Koresh's kids he fathered on his various brides. So it was kind of on him to take care of them.

Glad that kids didn't grow up?

 

[candycorn]

Back then maybe. Right now with the J6 show trials not many people on the right trust either the feds law enforcement or the DOJ, or the impartiality of the federal criminal judiciary.

The DOJ is showing that the 1/6 insurrectionists broke the law and are being held accountable.

 

[JoeB131]

The ATF was facing a budget crisis and a big bust raid of the Branch Dividians would put them over. The warrant was based on Branch Dividian followers sending away for (legal) brochures that showed how to restore rusty military junk. There was no evidence of the rusty military junk after the ATF raid but it didn't matter when the media supported the Clinton agenda even though the federal government used poison gas to kill about 90 men women and children in the raid.


arrent alleged that quirky

The Davidians were doing a lot more than that. They were selling semi-automatic rifles at gun shows along with conversion kits to make them fully auto. They were also letting Koresh have sex with children as young as 10.

Was the use of CS gas (really, just tear gas... which most of us who served in the military were exposed to and not a big deal.) a good idea? Not really ,the Davidians had gas masks.

But at the end of the day, the Davidians started the fires and killed themselves, not the government.

 

[JoeB131]

No traitors there, just show trial victims mostly.

meanwhile anti-fa types get slapped on the wrist, like those two morons in NYC.

Works for me.

Glad that kids didn't grow up?

Yup, we already have plenty of religious crazies in this country.

 

[martybegan]

Works for me.


Yup, we already have plenty of religious crazies in this country.

Yes, because Molotov Cocktailing a police van and giving out other incendiary devices to people is far better than walking around the Capitol (parading).......

 

[candycorn]

Works for me.


Yup, we already have plenty of religious crazies in this country.

And you knew that these kids were going to be "religious crazies"?

 

[Seymour Flops]

The author was on Fresh Air today plugging his book about the 1993 ATF assault on the Branch Davidian Compound. Here is the link:

https://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/

The author (whose analysis I disagree with somewhat) does proffer some new perspectives into the siege I hadn't considered before. For one thing, he points out that the BD's were figuring this was going to be the "the end" so when most survived the initial assault, they were left with more questions than answers. I had never considered what a member of a suicide cult would do if, when the end of times battle was engaged, they survived.

First, it's hard to do a logical analysis on a crazy mindset. That said, the Davidians may not have been a suicide cult such that they made a pact to all die together by their own or each other's hands. It may have been more like the Alamo, where they thought the most likely scenario was anihilation, and were willing to suffer that rather than surrender.

Or the rank and file may have gone along with the idea of a fight to the death to avoid going against Koresh,* but assumed that there would be a surrender. If that were the case, then they really would have been surprised at how easily the ATF was repelled. The heavily armed forces of evil they expected turned out to be a bunch of Barney Fifes meet Gomer Pyles.

But, you may well be right, that they expected to die that very day. If so, that would not deter cult members from their loyalty to the cult. Cults are noted for believing predictions, even after all the earlier predictions turned out to be spectacular failures. Google "Al Gore to Greta Thunberg" for more information on that,

While I don't think there is any charitable way to shade (as the author does) the BDs as being righteous--when the feds say, "put down your weapons, come out with your hands up" you do it--the author is right that there should have never been a siege, never been this standoff, and never been this type of assault. The ATF/FBI/US Marshalls could have arrested Koresh at any point in the days, weeks, and months leading up to the assault. This wasn't Bin Laden...he went to Wal*Mart like 4 days before the siege started.

Tapes From Sect Compound Reveal Talk of Setting Fire (Published 1994)

www.nytimes.com

No, they were not righteous. They were a personality cult in which the leader was a pedophile, that they handed their children over to. Yes, the ATF should have arrested him, or at least not tipped off the news of the coming raid. Kinda makes you wonder when you hear our employees refusing to answer questions due to "ongoing investigation." No one was ever prosecuted for that deadly leak.

Anyway, if you're interested in what the author has to say about the tragic assault that should have never taken place...give it a listen. Just one note, after this weekend, the episode will likely go behind a paywall so if you want to listen...do it soon.

Hm. I didn't know that was a thing. If so, then maybe some of the posters who obnoxiously post links with paywalls are doing it innocently when the paywall is not active.

 

[candycorn]

First, it's hard to do a logical analysis on a crazy mindset. That said, the Davidians may not have been a suicide cult such that they made a pact to all die together by their own or each other's hands. It may have been more like the Alamo, where they thought the most likely scenario was anihilation, and were willing to suffer that rather than surrender.

Or the rank and file may have gone along with the idea of a fight to the death to avoid going against Koresh,* but assumed that there would be a surrender. If that were the case, then they really would have been surprised at how easily the ATF was repelled. The heavily armed forces of evil they expected turned out to be a bunch of Barney Fifes meet Gomer Pyles.

But, you may well be right, that they expected to die that very day. If so, that would not deter cult members from their loyalty to the cult. Cults are noted for believing predictions, even after all the earlier predictions turned out to be spectacular failures. Google "Al Gore to Greta Thunberg" for more information on that,

Well, that was his assessment.

I do know there are suicide cults but never considered what a true believer would think if, the day after found them still alive. Just one of those things I never thought of.

No, they were not righteous. They were a personality cult in which the leader was a pedophile, that they handed their children over to. Yes, the ATF should have arrested him, or at least not tipped off the news of the coming raid. Kinda makes you wonder when you hear our employees refusing to answer questions due to "ongoing investigation." No one was ever prosecuted for that deadly leak.

Hm. I didn't know that was a thing. If so, then maybe some of the posters who obnoxiously post links with paywalls are doing it innocently when the paywall is not active.

As far as I can tell, the WHYY (the local NPR station in Philly) is putting up the paywall; not NPR corporate.

 

[martybegan]

And you knew that these kids were going to be "religious crazies"?

Remember JoeBlow thinks anyone who is religious is a religious crazy.

 

[whitehall]

Police Officers know that a "return" has to be filed after execution of a search warrant showing what was discovered to justify the warrant. Apparently the ATF never filed a return because they recovered nothing that was originally alleged. The Clinton Feds with the cooperation of the media relied on political gibberish and bullshit rather than the facts that allegedly supported the initial warrant. If they could get away with the ultimate incineration of 80 men women and children back then nobody is safe. Ironically the same Feds that tore up the Constitution in the notorious "Ruby Ridge" standoff were involved in Waco.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes, because Molotov Cocktailing a police van and giving out other incendiary devices to people is far better than walking around the Capitol (parading).......

Uh, guy, five people died and 140 capitol cops were injured. That was a lot more than parading. I've been to parades, and usually no one dies and no one is injured.

We had 10 years to peacefully address their concerns. We didn't. Don't come whining to me when people finally got fed up.

That's a lot different than joining an angry mob because your side lost an election, and your attempts to cheat weren't working.

Remember JoeBlow thinks anyone who is religious is a religious crazy.

Uh, you think there's an invisible man up in the sky telling you to do stuff. How is that not "Crazy"? Because it's a collective delusion and you call him "God"?

 

[JoeB131]

Police Officers know that a "return" has to be filed after execution of a search warrant showing what was discovered to justify the warrant. Apparently the ATF never filed a return because they recovered nothing that was originally alleged.

Uh, guy, they didn't recover anything because they never got into the building to conduct their search.

Are you fucking stupid?

After the building burned down, they recovered a lot of things... including.

Department Of Treasury Memorandum | Waco - The Inside Story | FRONTLINE | PBS

www.pbs.org

The FBI determined that 46 semiautomatic firearms had been modified to fire in full automatic mode:

22 M-16 Type Rifles

20 AK-47 Type Rifles

2 Heckler and Koch SP-89

2 M-11/Nine

The FBI also determined that two AR-15 lower receivers had been modified to fire in full automatic mode.

Silencers

21 Sound suppressors or silencers

Hand Grenades

4 Live M-21 Practice Hand Grenades

The possession of lawfully manufactured machineguns, silencers, or grenades requires the owner to register the weapon with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms. None of the compound's residents were registered to own such a weapon, therefore it would have been illegal for them to possess these weapons.

 

[surada]

Only in your mind.

Well, there were issues about caches of weapons and children being molested.. memories of the Jim Jones cult. It was badly handled.

 

[martybegan]

Uh, guy, five people died and 140 capitol cops were injured. That was a lot more than parading. I've been to parades, and usually no one dies and no one is injured.

We had 10 years to peacefully address their concerns. We didn't. Don't come whining to me when people finally got fed up.

That's a lot different than joining an angry mob because your side lost an election, and your attempts to cheat weren't working.


Uh, you think there's an invisible man up in the sky telling you to do stuff. How is that not "Crazy"? Because it's a collective delusion and you call him "God"?

None of those deaths were due to any action by the protesters.

Parading is the "crime" they are being charged with.

 

[JoeB131]

None of those deaths were due to any action by the protesters.

Parading is the "crime" they are being charged with.

Okay, I think the guy who got bear-sprayed and beaten would disagree with you, if he wasn't dead.

 

[martybegan]

Okay, I think the guy who got bear-sprayed and beaten would disagree with you, if he wasn't dead.

Which one?

Be specific.

 

[Blaster]

It was cold blooded murder.

 

[gipper]

Well, there were issues about caches of weapons and children being molested.. memories of the Jim Jones cult. It was badly handled.

You condemn us as conspiracy theorists, but believe state approved propaganda. WTF!

 

[JoeB131]

Which one?

Be specific.

No need. The guy who bear sprayed officer Sidnick just got 80 months in prison.

It was cold blooded murder.

By Koresh? I agree. But they were all stupid enough to follow him.