Netanyahu had better be careful...

[sealybobo]

I don't believe he will make the deal either - he's always been fairly hardline on this point. But if he doesn't, he can't expect the present U.S. administration to be as endlessly supportive as the last.

by the way, many of the men and women who died were arabs. Is their blood somehow worth less than a Jew's?

worth less? no. but they lost and in every instance but israel, to the victors go the spoils, especially when you win a defensive war.

Israel needs to give the Palistinians a state of their own and wash their hands of them. That will show they want piece. And if Palistinians still **** with Israel, bomb the **** out of them.

But maybe that part of their territory is important for some reason. I don't know all the facts. All I know is that Israel is starting to look like the bad guy. Even on liberal radio.

I love Ron Reagan. To me, he is the greatest Reagan ever. He is right on the money. And he isn't afraid to say when Obama or the Dems have sold out or bent over or capitulated or whatever you want to call it.

 

[jillian]

Israel needs to give the Palistinians a state of their own and wash their hands of them. That will show they want piece. And if Palistinians still **** with Israel, bomb the **** out of them.

I actually agree with you 100%. The question then arises as to the borders of that state and that's where it gets complicated.

But maybe that part of their territory is important for some reason. I don't know all the facts. All I know is that Israel is starting to look like the bad guy. Even on liberal radio.

.... ESPECIALLY on liberal radio. For some reason, the left has this idea of suicide bombers as romantic and being the underdog....

I love Ron Reagan. To me, he is the greatest Reagan ever. He is right on the money. And he isn't afraid to say when Obama or the Dems have sold out or bent over or capitulated or whatever you want to call it.

I really like him too. Doesn't mean I agree with him on everything.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm talking about Jewish soldiers who died capturing Jerusalem. I have no concern over Arab lives that died trying to prevent Israel from capturing Jerusalem. That's like worrying about all of the Nazis who died trying to keep the Allies out of the concentration camps.

All I'm saying is Bibi had better tread cautiously. It is irrelevant if the US supports Israel or not. Israel can find other "vendors" in which to purchase weapons from other than the US if it needs to. But I'm not worried about that because no American President will ever do that to Israel, lest they wish to only serve one term or have their party lose power in Congress.

I think this is bad/dangerous for America.

Which is why Judea and Samaria are better off being provinces of Israel rather than their country run by Arabs.

There must be alterior reasons for Israel wanting to keep the Palistinian territory. Location maybe?

I just googled Israel map. No way they want to give up Gaza. It borders the sea.

And the West bank is bordered with Jordan. Are the Israeli's patrolling that border? They might be worried about Jordan giving aid to the Palistinians?

Please let me know. I'm curious.

 

[jillian]

I think this is bad/dangerous for America.

Which is why Judea and Samaria are better off being provinces of Israel rather than their country run by Arabs.

There must be alterior reasons for Israel wanting to keep the Palistinian territory. Location maybe?

I just googled Israel map. No way they want to give up Gaza. It borders the sea.

And the West bank is bordered with Jordan. Are the Israeli's patrolling that border? They might be worried about Jordan giving aid to the Palistinians?

Please let me know. I'm curious.

They already gave up the Gaza... but then hamas decided that was weakness so decided to use the gaza as a staging point for missile launches.

Israel went back in after 3,000 missiles.

jordan would like to see the issue resolved, actually. the relationship between israel and jordan is a fairly good one as arab/israeli relations go, but jordan has to deal with it's own fundie population and this is a thorn in everyone's side. frankly, egypt and jordan need it to resolve in order to keep iran from getting more powerful. that's why they are working wioth the U.S. more now and didn't demand that Israel get out of Gaza the last time.

 

[Shogun]

Perhaps you should be careful, Dave... Too many quotable lines like that will cause you more trouble than your pompous ego can handle. Remember, you are still a laughable minority here in the US. Validating the suspicion that you already pull America's strings will result in a backlash the likes of which your fat ass isn't capable of dealing with.

and, of course you dont care about arabs, you ******* jewish racist. It's not difficult at all to see why Germany found it so easy to believe that you zionist bastards are the evil scum of the earth given your own testimony.

Pop quiz hot shot:

How many of the countries on these two maps below are Islamic countries, how many are Arab Islamic countries and how many are Jewish countries?

We do not need a Palestinian state. No one needs a Palestinian state. We have already given land to the Arab Muslims in exchange for peace. We gave them Jordan. Is there peace? No. We gave them Sinai back. Is there peace? No. We gave them Lebanon back. Is there peace? No. We gave them Gaza back. Is there peace? NO!

Albert Einstein said, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

So why are we trying to give land to the Arabs for peace? Did we give Germany more European land in exchange for peace? Did we give Japan more land for peace? NO! We beat them both until they were too bloody to continue.

It's AIPAC.

Well, it's not. Because if Israel attacks Iran, Iran will close the Strait of Hormuz. 60% of the world's oil flows in and out of there. America has said if Iran does that, it will be an act of war.

Listen to me you little twerp. The Jews aren't "******* with" the Arabs. The Jews only respond in bombings when the Arabs launch rockets and mortars at our schools and homes. This is isn't Chicken or the Egg, which comes first. If the Arabs are smuggling, illegally, weapons into Gaza, Israel will bomb Gaza. If the Arabs are launching rockets and mortars into Israel, Israel will bomb.

Do you know that you're IQ is actually larger than the number of Israeli airstrikes in the West Bank? The WB hasn't been attacked by Israel in several years. And that is because they don't attack Israel.

NetenYahoo, give those people some land and get away from them. You don't mix Never will. After ww2, we stole israel from the arabs and gave it to the jews. Now the Jews have to give a little piece back. They'll live.

You are probably the biggest moron I have ever encountered on here. The land has been JEWISH land for thousands of years. The land was JEWISH land before World War 2 according to the League of Nations and the Balfour Declaration. The land was controlled by Ottomans before that, Egyptians before that, Christians before that. You have to go back all the way to 1098 to find the last time that this land was controlled by Arabs and when it was, Israel was NOT declared an Arab Islamic land - the leaders of the ancient Arab Empire made several pacts with the Jews to make Jerusalem a holy city of several religions and left Israel to be run by the Jews. You do not know your history, Sealy. Go to your local Borders, pick up a ******* book and learn something.

Hey dave.. I really don't care HOW you want to attempt to validate your anti-gentile racism, dude. Seriously. No amount of muslim nations in the Mid East deflates the very real FACT that israel was carved from land whose people you now treat like *******. YOU may want a jew only state every bit as much as nazis wanted a caucasian only nation but, unfortnately for you, crying antisemite won't make your racist desire any less reprehensable to those here in an ACTUAL democratic state. I've told you before, every white guy in Europe doesn't invalidate the FACT that the nation you currently enjoy was created by white people from Europe. I take it you haven't discovered that jewish founding American father yet.


And, Jillian... Please! MAKE ME LAUGH AT YOU SOME MORE! Do you think it's not glaringly obvious WHY you won't apply the same anti-racist standard you demand in the US to your pet jewish nation? Puh-LEASE!

 

[Shogun]

I'm talking about Jewish soldiers who died capturing Jerusalem. I have no concern over Arab lives that died trying to prevent Israel from capturing Jerusalem. That's like worrying about all of the Nazis who died trying to keep the Allies out of the concentration camps.

All I'm saying is Bibi had better tread cautiously. It is irrelevant if the US supports Israel or not. Israel can find other "vendors" in which to purchase weapons from other than the US if it needs to. But I'm not worried about that because no American President will ever do that to Israel, lest they wish to only serve one term or have their party lose power in Congress.

Your whole post is ******* absurd, but lets just focus on those two sentences.

If you have no concern about human life, whatever the ethnicity / religion / whatever you want to call it, then you've got to appreciate that one hell of a lot of people are going to find your views...what's the word...intolerant doesn't quite do it....ermmm...inhuman isn't quite damning enough....ermmm...barbaric is about the best I can come up with.

Your views as expressed on this matter are about as unlikely to generate support for Israel as Shogun's are to generate support for Palestinians.

I did not say I have no concern over human life - it is absurd for me to care about Arab lives lost trying to prevent Israel from reaching its holiest site. Would you care about the life of someone who tried to rape and murder your wife and daughter? That is, in essence, equal to what the Arabs did in 1967. Jerusalem has been the spiritual center of the Jewish people for over 3,000 years. Long before Christianity and long before Islam. Under Arab control in the mid-late first millenium, it was STILL a spiritual center for the Jewish people. In fact, the Jews call it the Golden Age - where many scholars and philosophers of Judaism thrived. Jerusalem is as central to the Jewish religion as the idea of G-d is. If you remove Jerusalem from Judaism - you remove Judaism from the world. And we already had someone try that 60something years ago. He failed and so shall anyone who tries to remove G-d's people from their given land.

Obama will not succeed in Israel if this is his main goal. He will fail and he will lose support of the Jewish people, lose support of Florida AND Nevada and who knows what else? He will only be one term.

Again, if anyone wants to ACTUALLY see what racism looks like feel free to enjoy more of DavidS's impotent little "jews are the world" rants. The day he recieves all that he projects at arabs is the day you'll see him screaming like a ***** about being picked on. Must be nice to have a nation of christians in your pocket...

 

[Shogun]

Seely bobo, this issues ENDS with temple mount. Don't let these racist bitches kid you. Neither Jill nor Dve will be content until every non-jew is purged from isreal and temple mount is razed to the ground for the sake of a jewish temple. They are like the ******* borg since 1948.

 

[sealybobo]

Seely bobo, this issues ENDS with temple mount. Don't let these racist bitches kid you. Neither Jill nor Dve will be content until every non-jew is purged from isreal and temple mount is razed to the ground for the sake of a jewish temple. They are like the ******* borg since 1948.

1. Why didn't we give the Jews half of Germany? Germany deserved to lose land after what they did in WW1 and 2.

2. Who owned the land before Israel settled there? Were the Palistinians there first? Not that it really matters because the American indians were here first and that didn't stop us.

I try very hard to not be racist. I try to see things from both sides. I see Israel's side of this. BUT, I also see the Palistinians side of this too.

Ron Reagan said last night, "if the jews and Americans keep confronting this problem from the perspective that Jews are 100% good and Palistinians are 100% bad, then this will never be resolved, because that is not reality.

But I do side more with the Israeli's. Think about how Arabs/muslims are in Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc. They can be ******* crazy. I know, that's a racist thing to say.

I also know that the Israeli's **** with the Palistinians with checkpoints and such. Its like they are being held hostage/captive. I heard a story one day about a kid who's school was just 30 feet on the other side of a checkpoint. He was in a wheel chair. So his brother had to push him around an entire block everyday to get to school.

So the Jews have to maybe go the extra mile and show that they are not oppressors.

But I also know that there are two sides to every story. I'm sure the jews didn't put up that barrier for no reason. They must have a reason.

Anyways, I, and America, have our own problems to worry about.

So Jill and DVE, is there a chance that Palistinian will ever be its own state or do the Israeli's insist on owning them forever?

I'm trying to put myself in Obama's shoes. I'm sure he is not an expert on Israeli/Palistinian conflicts. Neither am I. So what is the solution guys?

 

[Shogun]

Seely bobo, this issues ENDS with temple mount. Don't let these racist bitches kid you. Neither Jill nor Dve will be content until every non-jew is purged from isreal and temple mount is razed to the ground for the sake of a jewish temple. They are like the ******* borg since 1948.

1. Why didn't we give the Jews half of Germany? Germany deserved to lose land after what they did in WW1 and 2.

2. Who owned the land before Israel settled there? Were the Palistinians there first? Not that it really matters because the American indians were here first and that didn't stop us.

I try very hard to not be racist. I try to see things from both sides. I see Israel's side of this. BUT, I also see the Palistinians side of this too.

Ron Reagan said last night, "if the jews and Americans keep confronting this problem from the perspective that Jews are 100% good and Palistinians are 100% bad, then this will never be resolved, because that is not reality.

But I do side more with the Israeli's. Think about how Arabs/muslims are in Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc. They can be ******* crazy. I know, that's a racist thing to say.

I also know that the Israeli's **** with the Palistinians with checkpoints and such. Its like they are being held hostage/captive. I heard a story one day about a kid who's school was just 30 feet on the other side of a checkpoint. He was in a wheel chair. So his brother had to push him around an entire block everyday to get to school.

So the Jews have to maybe go the extra mile and show that they are not oppressors.

But I also know that there are two sides to every story. I'm sure the jews didn't put up that barrier for no reason. They must have a reason.

Anyways, I, and America, have our own problems to worry about.

So Jill and DVE, is there a chance that Palistinian will ever be its own state or do the Israeli's insist on owning them forever?

I'm trying to put myself in Obama's shoes. I'm sure he is not an expert on Israeli/Palistinian conflicts. Neither am I. So what is the solution guys?

1. Good question. Ironically, it's the same thing the president of Iran keeps asking amidst the blathering of accusations based on a twisted translation. Careful, Jill doesn't like this line of thinking.

2. Israel was carved out of land belinging to Palis who were, themselves, part of the Ottoman Empire before it fell. Brittain took ownership after they defeated the Ottomans. This lead directly to Balfour... which, if you read quotes from source material is CLEAR who lived there before the mass importation of jews. Further, everyone involved KNEW what kind of reaction would be seen after palis were displaced by jews. This conflict wasn't unpredicted and it sure as **** wasn't necessary. Indeed, i've made the point before: if israel were carved from Texas instead of Palestine we'd be hearing about how much Texans just want to see dead jews.

Which leads me to point out who is the actual racists among us. On Monday Jill made a statement about hate crime laws and how she strongly disagrees with anyone judging people according to race or religion. I laughed and challenged her to make the same statement about zionist policy in israel. Can you guess her reaction? Total balk. She simply won't support equality in israel like she demands in the US. Think about that. The US became a plural nation comprised of many cultures, INCLUDING JEWS, after we, as a nation, decided to shed the dead skin of our racist *****. She enjoys all of this as a jew living in a nation created by WHITES. But, when it comes to extending the same democratic equality to israel, protecting both jews AND palis under a single common state, she screams antisemtie and runs from the ******* thread like an octopus shooting ink. If America can come to eventual peace with IT'S range of racial and cultural demographics then so to can Jill's little jewish re-enactment of the Aryan nation.

Everyone can be ******* crazy. THAT is the human fact. None of us are CHOSEN or SUPER human. You'll see Jill cry ******* fould against suicide bombers... but those won't bat a ******* eye when Dave worships the killer of Rabin... a jew who DARED shake hands with Arafat for the sake of peace. Again, which of us are actually racist?


The ONLY solution is a single state that embraces both jews and palis. Anything less is national segregation. A proverbial white only water fountain. Again, if jews were WELCOMING of palis then this would be a whole different ballgame. But, much like South Afrika, zionist jews seem to think that they are owed something while they ironically treat palis like germans treated them. Ask Jill or Dave.. they won't hesitate to tell you that the bullshit behind the whole "must acknowledge israel as a JEWISH state" means exactly that: a JEWISH state the likes of which we haven't seen since the third ******* reich's infatuation with an ARYAN NATION.


You think they'd accept a US that acts towards them like they enable israel to act toward non-jews? ya RIGHT! Better to have your cake and eat it too!

 

[jillian]

So Jill and DVE, is there a chance that Palistinian will ever be its own state or do the Israeli's insist on owning them forever?

I'm trying to put myself in Obama's shoes. I'm sure he is not an expert on Israeli/Palistinian conflicts. Neither am I. So what is the solution guys?

israel doesn't own them. they have their own govt. but which govt does israel deal with? the more moderate "fatah" or the terrorist hamasniks? hamas has sworn to destroy israel.

neither recognizes israel's "right to exist"... as if anyone needs to recognize the right of a sovereign nation to exist... but whatever.

in answer to your question. if the pals want a country, they will have to accept that israel is going to exist as a jewish state with defensible borders. if they can't do that, there's not a lot of room for give.

if they get past that little concept, they could have had their own country a long time ago.

I actually think Netanyu has a better chance at peace than Barak and Rabin ever did because the israeli's know he won't sell out their security... sort of like nixon having the anti-commie street cred to open china.

oh.. .and you might find shogie not such a good source on the region... he thinks the jews should be in utah and israel shouldn't exist.

 

[Shogun]

"as a jewish state"

period. point. blank.

 

[sealybobo]

Seely bobo, this issues ENDS with temple mount. Don't let these racist bitches kid you. Neither Jill nor Dve will be content until every non-jew is purged from isreal and temple mount is razed to the ground for the sake of a jewish temple. They are like the ******* borg since 1948.

1. Why didn't we give the Jews half of Germany? Germany deserved to lose land after what they did in WW1 and 2.

2. Who owned the land before Israel settled there? Were the Palistinians there first? Not that it really matters because the American indians were here first and that didn't stop us.

I try very hard to not be racist. I try to see things from both sides. I see Israel's side of this. BUT, I also see the Palistinians side of this too.

Ron Reagan said last night, "if the jews and Americans keep confronting this problem from the perspective that Jews are 100% good and Palistinians are 100% bad, then this will never be resolved, because that is not reality.

But I do side more with the Israeli's. Think about how Arabs/muslims are in Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc. They can be ******* crazy. I know, that's a racist thing to say.

I also know that the Israeli's **** with the Palistinians with checkpoints and such. Its like they are being held hostage/captive. I heard a story one day about a kid who's school was just 30 feet on the other side of a checkpoint. He was in a wheel chair. So his brother had to push him around an entire block everyday to get to school.

So the Jews have to maybe go the extra mile and show that they are not oppressors.

But I also know that there are two sides to every story. I'm sure the jews didn't put up that barrier for no reason. They must have a reason.

Anyways, I, and America, have our own problems to worry about.

So Jill and DVE, is there a chance that Palistinian will ever be its own state or do the Israeli's insist on owning them forever?

I'm trying to put myself in Obama's shoes. I'm sure he is not an expert on Israeli/Palistinian conflicts. Neither am I. So what is the solution guys?

Which leads me to point out who is the actual racists among us. On Monday Jill made a statement about hate crime laws and how she strongly disagrees with anyone judging people according to race or religion. I laughed and challenged her to make the same statement about zionist policy in israel. Can you guess her reaction? Total balk. She simply won't support equality in israel like she demands in the US. Think about that. The US became a plural nation comprised of many cultures, INCLUDING JEWS, after we, as a nation, decided to shed the dead skin of our racist *****. She enjoys all of this as a jew living in a nation created by WHITES. But, when it comes to extending the same democratic equality to israel, protecting both jews AND palis under a single common state, she screams antisemtie and runs from the ******* thread like an octopus shooting ink. If America can come to eventual peace with IT'S range of racial and cultural demographics then so to can Jill's little jewish re-enactment of the Aryan nation.

Everyone can be ******* crazy. THAT is the human fact. None of us are CHOSEN or SUPER human. You'll see Jill cry ******* fould against suicide bombers... but those won't bat a ******* eye when Dave worships the killer of Rabin... a jew who DARED shake hands with Arafat for the sake of peace. Again, which of us are actually racist?


The ONLY solution is a single state that embraces both jews and palis. Anything less is national segregation. A proverbial white only water fountain. Again, if jews were WELCOMING of palis then this would be a whole different ballgame. But, much like South Afrika, zionist jews seem to think that they are owed something while they ironically treat palis like germans treated them. Ask Jill or Dave.. they won't hesitate to tell you that the bullshit behind the whole "must acknowledge israel as a JEWISH state" means exactly that: a JEWISH state the likes of which we haven't seen since the third ******* reich's infatuation with an ARYAN NATION.


You think they'd accept a US that acts towards them like they enable israel to act toward non-jews? ya RIGHT! Better to have your cake and eat it too!

1. I have seen stories on Israel how the Hissidic Jews look down at the modern jews who dress like Americans dress. It was in Time Magazine. I remember the picture of this Hissidic Jew looking at a very beautiful women who was dressed in a HOT outfit and he was looking at her like he wanted to puke. But I guess if we accept how Afgan's, Saudi's and Iraqi's treat their women, we shouldn't be so surprised at that.

But do Hissidic Jews run Israel? Because we have radical right wingers in this country too. In fact, they ran this country for the last 8 years.

2. Can Palistinian people run for office in Israel? I didn't ask if they would win. Can they run? Do Palistinians have seats in Israel's Congress, if they have such a thing?

3. Why do you say the only solution is one one state solution? Why can't they carve a territory out and make Palistine the Country? But I do see what you are saying. It is like when we ended slavery. Many people probably wanted to ship blacks back to Africa, or give them a territory of their own. And today we are ok living together. Its not perfect, but we have proven that an oppressor can live with its victims. It just takes time. In fact, one day a Palistinian could become president of Israel. Hard to believe, but look at Obama.

But the Jews have to give the Palistinians equal rights. I don't know, but I'll guess that Palistinians are treated like second class citizens, or worse.

I'm not even talking about how they treat the Gaza territory. Bombs are being lobbed in from that area. We would crack down on that too if Detroit was lobbing bombs into Ohio. But what about Palistinians being able to work in Israel. Can they?

 

[sealybobo]

So Jill and DVE, is there a chance that Palistinian will ever be its own state or do the Israeli's insist on owning them forever?

I'm trying to put myself in Obama's shoes. I'm sure he is not an expert on Israeli/Palistinian conflicts. Neither am I. So what is the solution guys?

israel doesn't own them. they have their own govt. but which govt does israel deal with? the more moderate "fatah" or the terrorist hamasniks? hamas has sworn to destroy israel.

neither recognizes israel's "right to exist"... as if anyone needs to recognize the right of a sovereign nation to exist... but whatever.

in answer to your question. if the pals want a country, they will have to accept that israel is going to exist as a jewish state with defensible borders. if they can't do that, there's not a lot of room for give.

if they get past that little concept, they could have had their own country a long time ago.

I actually think Netanyu has a better chance at peace than Barak and Rabin ever did because the israeli's know he won't sell out their security... sort of like nixon having the anti-commie street cred to open china.

oh.. .and you might find shogie not such a good source on the region... he thinks the jews should be in utah and israel shouldn't exist.

Well he has a different slant on things. It is almost like he's researching this from the Palistinians viewpoint. And he is probably an anti semite. I hate that term, but you can sort of tell that he is anti jew.

And when I listen to his side, or the Palistinians side, I sort of see where they are coming from, but then I talk to you and I end up agreeing with what you are saying.

This reminds me of politics in the US. Righties demonize the left so that eventually, liberal becomes a bad word, when it is not. And just like I can see the conservatives side of the argument, ultimately they are wrong. Just like I can see the Palistinians side, but ultimately, they need to change more than the Jewish people need to change.

They need to stop saying Isreal has no right to exist, or death to Israel. Thats a must.

They have to stop lobbing bombs in.

If it weren't for the small number of troublemakers in Palistine, they'd probably be a pieceful people. I know some people from there. They seem like nice people. But they are arabs over there. They are crazy. We see this in Iraq, Saudi, Pakistan all the time. Their laws and ways are insane!!!

So I want to tell you to stop bullying them, but then I start thinking about what you guys have to deal with and how would I react.

Maybe this is similar to the illegal immigration problem, only worse, because illegals aren't killing us in great numbers. Can you imagine if mexicans were terrorizing us? They could make a case that they were here before us too. What would we do? What if they said America doesn't have a right to exist?

Just tell Nutandyahoo to keep trying and stop being such a hard ass.

Now I don't even know if a 2 state solution is better or if jews and Palistinians need to learn to live together. Maybe that is why the jews don't want a 2 state solution.

 

[Shogun]

1. Why didn't we give the Jews half of Germany? Germany deserved to lose land after what they did in WW1 and 2.

2. Who owned the land before Israel settled there? Were the Palistinians there first? Not that it really matters because the American indians were here first and that didn't stop us.

I try very hard to not be racist. I try to see things from both sides. I see Israel's side of this. BUT, I also see the Palistinians side of this too.

Ron Reagan said last night, "if the jews and Americans keep confronting this problem from the perspective that Jews are 100% good and Palistinians are 100% bad, then this will never be resolved, because that is not reality.

But I do side more with the Israeli's. Think about how Arabs/muslims are in Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc. They can be ******* crazy. I know, that's a racist thing to say.

I also know that the Israeli's **** with the Palistinians with checkpoints and such. Its like they are being held hostage/captive. I heard a story one day about a kid who's school was just 30 feet on the other side of a checkpoint. He was in a wheel chair. So his brother had to push him around an entire block everyday to get to school.

So the Jews have to maybe go the extra mile and show that they are not oppressors.

But I also know that there are two sides to every story. I'm sure the jews didn't put up that barrier for no reason. They must have a reason.

Anyways, I, and America, have our own problems to worry about.

So Jill and DVE, is there a chance that Palistinian will ever be its own state or do the Israeli's insist on owning them forever?

I'm trying to put myself in Obama's shoes. I'm sure he is not an expert on Israeli/Palistinian conflicts. Neither am I. So what is the solution guys?

Which leads me to point out who is the actual racists among us. On Monday Jill made a statement about hate crime laws and how she strongly disagrees with anyone judging people according to race or religion. I laughed and challenged her to make the same statement about zionist policy in israel. Can you guess her reaction? Total balk. She simply won't support equality in israel like she demands in the US. Think about that. The US became a plural nation comprised of many cultures, INCLUDING JEWS, after we, as a nation, decided to shed the dead skin of our racist *****. She enjoys all of this as a jew living in a nation created by WHITES. But, when it comes to extending the same democratic equality to israel, protecting both jews AND palis under a single common state, she screams antisemtie and runs from the ******* thread like an octopus shooting ink. If America can come to eventual peace with IT'S range of racial and cultural demographics then so to can Jill's little jewish re-enactment of the Aryan nation.

Everyone can be ******* crazy. THAT is the human fact. None of us are CHOSEN or SUPER human. You'll see Jill cry ******* fould against suicide bombers... but those won't bat a ******* eye when Dave worships the killer of Rabin... a jew who DARED shake hands with Arafat for the sake of peace. Again, which of us are actually racist?


The ONLY solution is a single state that embraces both jews and palis. Anything less is national segregation. A proverbial white only water fountain. Again, if jews were WELCOMING of palis then this would be a whole different ballgame. But, much like South Afrika, zionist jews seem to think that they are owed something while they ironically treat palis like germans treated them. Ask Jill or Dave.. they won't hesitate to tell you that the bullshit behind the whole "must acknowledge israel as a JEWISH state" means exactly that: a JEWISH state the likes of which we haven't seen since the third ******* reich's infatuation with an ARYAN NATION.


You think they'd accept a US that acts towards them like they enable israel to act toward non-jews? ya RIGHT! Better to have your cake and eat it too!

1. I have seen stories on Israel how the Hissidic Jews look down at the modern jews who dress like Americans dress. It was in Time Magazine. I remember the picture of this Hissidic Jew looking at a very beautiful women who was dressed in a HOT outfit and he was looking at her like he wanted to puke. But I guess if we accept how Afgan's, Saudi's and Iraqi's treat their women, we shouldn't be so surprised at that.

But do Hissidic Jews run Israel? Because we have radical right wingers in this country too. In fact, they ran this country for the last 8 years.

2. Can Palistinian people run for office in Israel? I didn't ask if they would win. Can they run? Do Palistinians have seats in Israel's Congress, if they have such a thing?

3. Why do you say the only solution is one one state solution? Why can't they carve a territory out and make Palistine the Country? But I do see what you are saying. It is like when we ended slavery. Many people probably wanted to ship blacks back to Africa, or give them a territory of their own. And today we are ok living together. Its not perfect, but we have proven that an oppressor can live with its victims. It just takes time. In fact, one day a Palistinian could become president of Israel. Hard to believe, but look at Obama.

But the Jews have to give the Palistinians equal rights. I don't know, but I'll guess that Palistinians are treated like second class citizens, or worse.

I'm not even talking about how they treat the Gaza territory. Bombs are being lobbed in from that area. We would crack down on that too if Detroit was lobbing bombs into Ohio. But what about Palistinians being able to work in Israel. Can they?

1. Perhaps the question you should ask is why Jillian won't pounce on radical JEWS in the same fashion that she does radial muslims. She is willing to believe that the entire population of arabs are represented by a fraction of radicals. Can you imagine if I applied the same standard to jews? How many Scarlet A's do you think such consistency would produce?

2. There are a few token arabs in the knesset. More the reason to create a common nation which concerns itself with more than ONLY JEWS. Again, notice her qualification as A JEWISH STATE. Tell me, how would jews like Jill react, never mind every other minority, if the US clarified itself as a CAUCASIAN nation?

3. In fact, on one occasion an arab DID play the role of PM for isreal. Again, all the more reason to open "zion" up to include both peoples instead of ONLY jews. Not all palis are jew hating killers. But you won't catch Dave or Jill admitting this since it doesn't gel with their victimhood. WHY not two nations? Because they will both resort to fighting over who gets what territory. Like I said, this conflct ENDS at temple mount. Jillian types won't sleep until it's destroyed for the sake of the next temple of solomon. This is why it is imperative to insist on a JEWISH state rather than a state for jews and palis.


Let me put it to you this way... Here, in the US, how would you feel if I, and a dominant ethnic power, told you that this nation is specifically reserved PRIMARILY for my ethnicity? While yours can go **** itself and move away... How would YOU feel if I specifically imported MORE of my race in order to inflate the demograhics of MY ethnicity above yours? Now, keep in mind, YOUR people was here first and MINE carved a nations from your lands. How would you feel about "accepting this as a JEWISH state" as Jill makes clear above? Venture a guess... if whites made this clear in the 60s how do you think blacks would respond to this very day?

 

[Shogun]

So Jill and DVE, is there a chance that Palistinian will ever be its own state or do the Israeli's insist on owning them forever?

I'm trying to put myself in Obama's shoes. I'm sure he is not an expert on Israeli/Palistinian conflicts. Neither am I. So what is the solution guys?

israel doesn't own them. they have their own govt. but which govt does israel deal with? the more moderate "fatah" or the terrorist hamasniks? hamas has sworn to destroy israel.

neither recognizes israel's "right to exist"... as if anyone needs to recognize the right of a sovereign nation to exist... but whatever.

in answer to your question. if the pals want a country, they will have to accept that israel is going to exist as a jewish state with defensible borders. if they can't do that, there's not a lot of room for give.

if they get past that little concept, they could have had their own country a long time ago.

I actually think Netanyu has a better chance at peace than Barak and Rabin ever did because the israeli's know he won't sell out their security... sort of like nixon having the anti-commie street cred to open china.

oh.. .and you might find shogie not such a good source on the region... he thinks the jews should be in utah and israel shouldn't exist.

Well he has a different slant on things. It is almost like he's researching this from the Palistinians viewpoint. And he is probably an anti semite. I hate that term, but you can sort of tell that he is anti jew.

And when I listen to his side, or the Palistinians side, I sort of see where they are coming from, but then I talk to you and I end up agreeing with what you are saying.

This reminds me of politics in the US. Righties demonize the left so that eventually, liberal becomes a bad word, when it is not. And just like I can see the conservatives side of the argument, ultimately they are wrong. Just like I can see the Palistinians side, but ultimately, they need to change more than the Jewish people need to change.

They need to stop saying Isreal has no right to exist, or death to Israel. Thats a must.

They have to stop lobbing bombs in.

If it weren't for the small number of troublemakers in Palistine, they'd probably be a pieceful people. I know some people from there. They seem like nice people. But they are arabs over there. They are crazy. We see this in Iraq, Saudi, Pakistan all the time. Their laws and ways are insane!!!

So I want to tell you to stop bullying them, but then I start thinking about what you guys have to deal with and how would I react.

Maybe this is similar to the illegal immigration problem, only worse, because illegals aren't killing us in great numbers. Can you imagine if mexicans were terrorizing us? They could make a case that they were here before us too. What would we do? What if they said America doesn't have a right to exist?

Just tell Nutandyahoo to keep trying and stop being such a hard ass.

Now I don't even know if a 2 state solution is better or if jews and Palistinians need to learn to live together. Maybe that is why the jews don't want a 2 state solution.

Im no more antisemitic than jillian is a gentile. If Jill were arab she'd be screaming bloody ******* murder daily.

And, praytell, if israel were carved out of Utah rather than Palestine go ahead and venture a guess on who would be reacting to being purged from their land. Hint: it wouldn't be arabs. And yes, if we are going to dole out land then perhaps we should avoid the righteous revolt of indegenous people and give away land we own, say Utah, instead of acting shocked when Palis react in exactly the same way Native Americans reacted to Manifest Destiny.


antisemite.. please.. ONE OF US beleivs in a racist standard, alright.. but, if you can read my posts beyond the usual aipac knee jerk you'll see it's not the guy defending the idea of a common state for both people where democracy and equality trumps some bullshit landgrab meant to purge itself of non-jews.

 

[sealybobo]

Which leads me to point out who is the actual racists among us. On Monday Jill made a statement about hate crime laws and how she strongly disagrees with anyone judging people according to race or religion. I laughed and challenged her to make the same statement about zionist policy in israel. Can you guess her reaction? Total balk. She simply won't support equality in israel like she demands in the US. Think about that. The US became a plural nation comprised of many cultures, INCLUDING JEWS, after we, as a nation, decided to shed the dead skin of our racist *****. She enjoys all of this as a jew living in a nation created by WHITES. But, when it comes to extending the same democratic equality to israel, protecting both jews AND palis under a single common state, she screams antisemtie and runs from the ******* thread like an octopus shooting ink. If America can come to eventual peace with IT'S range of racial and cultural demographics then so to can Jill's little jewish re-enactment of the Aryan nation.

Everyone can be ******* crazy. THAT is the human fact. None of us are CHOSEN or SUPER human. You'll see Jill cry ******* fould against suicide bombers... but those won't bat a ******* eye when Dave worships the killer of Rabin... a jew who DARED shake hands with Arafat for the sake of peace. Again, which of us are actually racist?


The ONLY solution is a single state that embraces both jews and palis. Anything less is national segregation. A proverbial white only water fountain. Again, if jews were WELCOMING of palis then this would be a whole different ballgame. But, much like South Afrika, zionist jews seem to think that they are owed something while they ironically treat palis like germans treated them. Ask Jill or Dave.. they won't hesitate to tell you that the bullshit behind the whole "must acknowledge israel as a JEWISH state" means exactly that: a JEWISH state the likes of which we haven't seen since the third ******* reich's infatuation with an ARYAN NATION.


You think they'd accept a US that acts towards them like they enable israel to act toward non-jews? ya RIGHT! Better to have your cake and eat it too!

1. I have seen stories on Israel how the Hissidic Jews look down at the modern jews who dress like Americans dress. It was in Time Magazine. I remember the picture of this Hissidic Jew looking at a very beautiful women who was dressed in a HOT outfit and he was looking at her like he wanted to puke. But I guess if we accept how Afgan's, Saudi's and Iraqi's treat their women, we shouldn't be so surprised at that.

But do Hissidic Jews run Israel? Because we have radical right wingers in this country too. In fact, they ran this country for the last 8 years.

2. Can Palistinian people run for office in Israel? I didn't ask if they would win. Can they run? Do Palistinians have seats in Israel's Congress, if they have such a thing?

3. Why do you say the only solution is one one state solution? Why can't they carve a territory out and make Palistine the Country? But I do see what you are saying. It is like when we ended slavery. Many people probably wanted to ship blacks back to Africa, or give them a territory of their own. And today we are ok living together. Its not perfect, but we have proven that an oppressor can live with its victims. It just takes time. In fact, one day a Palistinian could become president of Israel. Hard to believe, but look at Obama.

But the Jews have to give the Palistinians equal rights. I don't know, but I'll guess that Palistinians are treated like second class citizens, or worse.

I'm not even talking about how they treat the Gaza territory. Bombs are being lobbed in from that area. We would crack down on that too if Detroit was lobbing bombs into Ohio. But what about Palistinians being able to work in Israel. Can they?

1. Perhaps the question you should ask is why Jillian won't pounce on radical JEWS in the same fashion that she does radial muslims. She is willing to believe that the entire population of arabs are represented by a fraction of radicals. Can you imagine if I applied the same standard to jews? How many Scarlet A's do you think such consistency would produce?

2. There are a few token arabs in the knesset. More the reason to create a common nation which concerns itself with more than ONLY JEWS. Again, notice her qualification as A JEWISH STATE. Tell me, how would jews like Jill react, never mind every other minority, if the US clarified itself as a CAUCASIAN nation?

3. In fact, on one occasion an arab DID play the role of PM for isreal. Again, all the more reason to open "zion" up to include both peoples instead of ONLY jews. Not all palis are jew hating killers. But you won't catch Dave or Jill admitting this since it doesn't gel with their victimhood. WHY not two nations? Because they will both resort to fighting over who gets what territory. Like I said, this conflct ENDS at temple mount. Jillian types won't sleep until it's destroyed for the sake of the next temple of solomon. This is why it is imperative to insist on a JEWISH state rather than a state for jews and palis.


Let me put it to you this way... Here, in the US, how would you feel if I, and a dominant ethnic power, told you that this nation is specifically reserved PRIMARILY for my ethnicity? While yours can go **** itself and move away... How would YOU feel if I specifically imported MORE of my race in order to inflate the demograhics of MY ethnicity above yours? Now, keep in mind, YOUR people was here first and MINE carved a nations from your lands. How would you feel about "accepting this as a JEWISH state" as Jill makes clear above? Venture a guess... if whites made this clear in the 60s how do you think blacks would respond to this very day?

There are people here who want the US to be a "christian" nation. And even though I am a Christian, I do not approve. This nation is for everyone, including athiests.

I'll ask her.

Did you say Israel had an arab Prime Minister? Who? When? Really? That's encouraging.

PS. This issue for Jewish Americans is a touchy subject. Just look at what this issue did to Lieberman. He's liberal in every other way, until it comes to Israel.

I do wonder if they have too much loyalty to their "homeland".

I'm greek, so I'm fond of Greece. I consider it a second home. But a DISTANT second.

 

[sealybobo]

israel doesn't own them. they have their own govt. but which govt does israel deal with? the more moderate "fatah" or the terrorist hamasniks? hamas has sworn to destroy israel.

neither recognizes israel's "right to exist"... as if anyone needs to recognize the right of a sovereign nation to exist... but whatever.

in answer to your question. if the pals want a country, they will have to accept that israel is going to exist as a jewish state with defensible borders. if they can't do that, there's not a lot of room for give.

if they get past that little concept, they could have had their own country a long time ago.

I actually think Netanyu has a better chance at peace than Barak and Rabin ever did because the israeli's know he won't sell out their security... sort of like nixon having the anti-commie street cred to open china.

oh.. .and you might find shogie not such a good source on the region... he thinks the jews should be in utah and israel shouldn't exist.

Well he has a different slant on things. It is almost like he's researching this from the Palistinians viewpoint. And he is probably an anti semite. I hate that term, but you can sort of tell that he is anti jew.

And when I listen to his side, or the Palistinians side, I sort of see where they are coming from, but then I talk to you and I end up agreeing with what you are saying.

This reminds me of politics in the US. Righties demonize the left so that eventually, liberal becomes a bad word, when it is not. And just like I can see the conservatives side of the argument, ultimately they are wrong. Just like I can see the Palistinians side, but ultimately, they need to change more than the Jewish people need to change.

They need to stop saying Isreal has no right to exist, or death to Israel. Thats a must.

They have to stop lobbing bombs in.

If it weren't for the small number of troublemakers in Palistine, they'd probably be a pieceful people. I know some people from there. They seem like nice people. But they are arabs over there. They are crazy. We see this in Iraq, Saudi, Pakistan all the time. Their laws and ways are insane!!!

So I want to tell you to stop bullying them, but then I start thinking about what you guys have to deal with and how would I react.

Maybe this is similar to the illegal immigration problem, only worse, because illegals aren't killing us in great numbers. Can you imagine if mexicans were terrorizing us? They could make a case that they were here before us too. What would we do? What if they said America doesn't have a right to exist?

Just tell Nutandyahoo to keep trying and stop being such a hard ass.

Now I don't even know if a 2 state solution is better or if jews and Palistinians need to learn to live together. Maybe that is why the jews don't want a 2 state solution.

Im no more antisemitic than jillian is a gentile. If Jill were arab she'd be screaming bloody ******* murder daily.

And, praytell, if israel were carved out of Utah rather than Palestine go ahead and venture a guess on who would be reacting to being purged from their land. Hint: it wouldn't be arabs. And yes, if we are going to dole out land then perhaps we should avoid the righteous revolt of indegenous people and give away land we own, say Utah, instead of acting shocked when Palis react in exactly the same way Native Americans reacted to Manifest Destiny.


antisemite.. please.. ONE OF US beleivs in a racist standard, alright.. but, if you can read my posts beyond the usual aipac knee jerk you'll see it's not the guy defending the idea of a common state for both people where democracy and equality trumps some bullshit landgrab meant to purge itself of non-jews.

Now I agree with what you are saying too.

Jillian? Your reply?

 

[sealybobo]

So Jill and DVE, is there a chance that Palistinian will ever be its own state or do the Israeli's insist on owning them forever?

I'm trying to put myself in Obama's shoes. I'm sure he is not an expert on Israeli/Palistinian conflicts. Neither am I. So what is the solution guys?

israel doesn't own them. they have their own govt. but which govt does israel deal with? the more moderate "fatah" or the terrorist hamasniks? hamas has sworn to destroy israel.

neither recognizes israel's "right to exist"... as if anyone needs to recognize the right of a sovereign nation to exist... but whatever.

in answer to your question. if the pals want a country, they will have to accept that israel is going to exist as a jewish state with defensible borders. if they can't do that, there's not a lot of room for give.

if they get past that little concept, they could have had their own country a long time ago.

I actually think Netanyu has a better chance at peace than Barak and Rabin ever did because the israeli's know he won't sell out their security... sort of like nixon having the anti-commie street cred to open china.

oh.. .and you might find shogie not such a good source on the region... he thinks the jews should be in utah and israel shouldn't exist.

Hey Jillian. Why is it wrong for the US to be a Christian nation but it is ok for Israel to be a Jewish state?

 

[Shogun]

I forget the name.. and position so I may be wrong about what role an arab played in what political level but it's some dude who was a temporary replacement... Funny, thats not the kind of info that seems widely broadcast. Regardless, here is some info on arabs participating in what JILLIAN insists should be ONLY a JEWISH nation. If you can swallow that kind of blatant racism then so be it. I won't accept it from a german, a southern white dude OR a racist ******* zionist jew.



Arab participation in Israeli government

Palestinian Arabs sat in the state's first parliamentary assembly; currently, 12 of the 120 members of the Israeli Parliament are Arab citizens, most representing Arab political parties, and one of Israel's Supreme Court judges is a Palestinian Arab.[140]

In the public employment sphere, by the end of 2002, 6.1% of 56,362 Israeli civil servants were Arab.[141] In January 2004, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon declared that every state-run company must have at least one Arab citizen of Israel on its board of directors.[142]

[edit] Arab figures in political, judicial and military positions

Cabinet: Nawaf Massalha, an Arab Muslim, has served in various junior ministerial roles, including Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, since 1999.[143] Until 2001, no Arab had been included in a Prime Minister's cabinet, or invited to join any political coalition. In 2001, this changed, when Salah Tarif, a Druze Arab citizen of Israel, was appointed a member of Sharon's cabinet without a portfolio. Tarif was later ejected after being convicted of corruption.[144] In 2007 the first non-Druze Arab minister in Israel's history, Raleb Majadele, was appointed a minister without portfolio, and a month later appointed minister for Science, Culture and Sport.[42][145] The appointment of Majadele was criticized by far-right Israelis, some of whom are also within the Cabinet, but this drew condemnation across the mainstream Israeli political spectrum.[43][146] Meanwhile Arab lawmakers called the appointment an attempt to "whitewash Israel's discriminatory policies against its Arab minority".[147][148]

Knesset: Arab citizens of Israel have been elected to every Knesset, and currently hold 12 of its 120 seats. The first female Arab MP was Hussniya Jabara, a Muslim Arab from central Israel, who was elected in 1999.[149]

Supreme Court: Abdel Rahman Zuabi, a secular Muslim from northern Israel, was the first Arab on the Israeli Supreme Court, serving a 9-month term in 1999. In 2004, Salim Jubran, a Christian Arab from Haifa descended from Lebanese Maronites, became the first Arab to hold a permanent appointment on the Court. Jubran's expertise lies in the field of criminal law.[150]

Foreign Service: Ali Yahya, an Arab Muslim, became the first Arab ambassador for Israel in 1995 when he was appointed ambassador to Finland. He served until 1999, and in 2006 was appointed ambassador to Greece. Other Arab ambassadors include Walid Mansour, a Druze, appointed ambassador to Vietnam in 1999, and Reda Mansour, also a Druze, a former ambassador to Ecuador. Mohammed Masarwa, an Arab Muslim, was Consul-General in Atlanta. In 2006, Ismail Khaldi was appointed Israeli consul in San Francisco, becoming the first Bedouin consul of the State of Israel.[151]

Israel Defense Forces: Arab Generals in the IDF include Major General Hussain Fares, commander of Israel's border police, and Major General Yosef Mishlav, head of the Israeli Home Front Command and current Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories.[152] Both are members of the Druze community.

Arab citizens of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[DavidS]

I think this is bad/dangerous for America.

Which is why Judea and Samaria are better off being provinces of Israel rather than their country run by Arabs.

There must be alterior reasons for Israel wanting to keep the Palistinian territory. Location maybe?

I just googled Israel map. No way they want to give up Gaza. It borders the sea.

And the West bank is bordered with Jordan. Are the Israeli's patrolling that border? They might be worried about Jordan giving aid to the Palistinians?

Please let me know. I'm curious.

For strategic reasons, Judea and Sumeria are situated near the Jordan River and the Dead Sea. Israel is basically a desert and needs as much water as it can get.

For historic reasons the Jordan River and the Dead Sea are mentioned several times in the Torah and the Tenach and hold a special spiritual place with the Jewish people. Just as the Al Asqua Mosque holds a special meaning for the Arab Muslims.

The Jordan River is referred to as the source of fertility to a large plain ("Kikkar ha-Yarden"), and it is said to be like "the garden of God" (Genesis 13:10). There is no regular description of the Jordan in the Bible; only scattered and indefinite references to it are given. Jacob crossed it and its tributary, the Jabbok (the modern Al-Zarqa), in order to reach Haran (Genesis 32:11, 32:23-24). It is noted as the line of demarcation between the "two tribes and the half tribe" settled to the east (Numbers 34:15) and the "nine tribes and the half tribe of Manasseh" that, led by Joshua, settled to the west (Joshua 13:7, passim).

Opposite Jericho, it was called "the Jordan of Jericho" (Numbers 34:15; 35:1). The Jordan has a number of fords, and one of them is famous as the place where many Ephraimites were slain by Jephthah (Judges 12:5-6). It seems that these are the same fords mentioned as being near Beth-barah, where Gideon lay in wait for the Midianites (Judges 7:24). In the plain of the Jordan, between Succoth and Zarthan, is the clay ground where Solomon had his brass-foundries (1 Kings 7:46).

In biblical history, the Jordan appears as the scene of several miracles, the first taking place when the Jordan, near Jericho, was crossed by the Israelites under Joshua (Joshua 3:15-17). Later the two tribes and the half tribe that settled east of the Jordan built a large altar on its banks as "a witness" between them and the other tribes (Joshua 22:10, 22:26, et seq.). The Jordan was crossed by Elijah and Elisha on dry ground (2 Kings 2:8, 2:14). Elisha performed two other miracles at the Jordan: he healed Naaman by having him bathe in its waters, and he made the axe head of one of the "children of the prophets" float, by throwing a piece of wood into the water (2 Kings 5:14; 6:6).

The Jordan was crossed by Judas Maccabeus and his brother Jonathan Maccabaeus during their war with the Nabatæans (1 Maccabees 5:24). A little later the Jordan was the scene of the battle between Jonathan and Bacchides, in which the latter was defeated (1 Maccabees 9:42-49).

This makes the land in Judea and Samaria much more fertile ground than what Israel has to deal with on a repeated basis and would help Israel's economy along as well if we were allowed to grow fruits and vegetables there and transport them throughout our country and even export them to other countries.

And, to make this as simple as possible - we won the land in war with Jordan in 1967. It is our land to do what we want with it, but because of political pressure, we haven't done nearly enough.