Nelson Mandela dead

[Black_Man1]

You believe what you choose to believe. I've pretty had enough of this subject. I could actually care less that he was a terrorist leader and thousands died because of it. It's not up to me to pull you away from all this liberal revisionist poppy-cock.. enjoy the delusion.

~ Lumpy

 

[Esmeralda]

Nelson Mandela is mourned by millions, even billions, of people around the world. He was a world leader and is a symbol of courage, freedom and reconciliation. That tiny, pathetic, misled, delusional, and angry minority here who want to paint him as something other than what the rest of the world knows him to be, those people should just be ignored. Their perspective is warped.

 

[Lumpy 1]

You believe what you choose to believe. I've pretty had enough of this subject. I could actually care less that he was a terrorist leader and thousands died because of it. It's not up to me to pull you away from all this liberal revisionist poppy-cock.. enjoy the delusion.

I find racist race baiters far to easy to predict, they come and go, enjoy your time here.

 

[Black_Man1]

@ Lumpy,

 

[Tank]

Each South African day sees an average of 59 murders, 145 rapes and 752 serious assaults out of its 42 million population. The new crime is the rape of babies; some AIDS-infected African men believe that having sex with a virgin is a cure. Twelve percent of South Africa's population is HIV-positive, but President Mbeki says that HIV cannot cause AIDS.

In response to growing violence, South Africa's minister of safety and security, Steve Tshwete, says: "We can't police this; there's nothing more we can do. South Africa's currency, the rand, has fallen about 70 percent since the African National Congress (ANC) came to power in 1994. Emigration from South Africa (mainly of skilled people) is now at its highest level ever."

Walter Williams

 

[Lumpy 1]

@ Lumpy,

yeah right..

 

[paperview]

Mandela was imprisoned in 1962 and allowed 1 letter every six months and 1 visitor per year for 20 minutes. As far as the allegations of terrorism go the document that they used to charge him with was discovered in a raid while he was in prison. It was a typed document too so it wasn't even his handwriting. The first attempt at a trial was so farcical that the judge threw it out of court.



The Nelson Mandela (Rivonia) Trial: An Account

They then proceeded with a political show trial in order to achieve a conviction but they couldn't produce any actual "evidence" so they didn't get the death penalty that they sought.

Mandela was no shrinking violet but the case against him would never have stood up in the USA. The rest of that link is little more than "guilt by association". Procuring arms and meeting leaders of other nations is something that all governments and politicians do.

I'm not allowed to respond as far as I can tell..

You could do an honest google search on your own, I suppose, if you were interested..

I did!

Mandela was actively working against Apartheid but the case against him was a complete farce. The Apartheid regime was comprised of racists and yes-men. They had very little in the way of intellectuals. Mandela was more than a match for them when it comes to brains. They were scared of him and his ability to speak effectively and eloquently. That was why they restricted his communication with the outside world. It was censorship by imprisonment. BTW the Apartheid regime became more and more draconian as time went by. It was totally corrupt and spent the nation into massive debt purchasing arms. If you want the full story then do an honest google search on Apartheid too. As I said Mandela was no angel but it was the Apartheid regime that was truly evil in every sense of the word.

On the communism charge, Mandela explains in one of his speeches:

It is true that there has often been close cooperation between the ANC and the Communist party.

But cooperation is merely proof of a common goal - in this case the removal of white supremacy - and is not proof of a complete community of interests. The history of the world is full of similar examples. Perhaps the most striking is the cooperation between Great Britain, the United States and the Soviet Union in the fight against Hitler. Nobody but Hitler would have dared to suggest that such cooperation turned Churchill or Roosevelt into communists. Theoretical differences amongst those fighting against oppression is a luxury we cannot afford at this stage.

What is more, for many decades communists were the only political group in South Africa prepared to treat Africans as human beings and their equals; who were prepared to eat with us; talk with us, live with us, and work with us.

They were the only group which was prepared to work with the Africans for the attainment of political rights and a stake in society. Because of this, there are many Africans who, today, tend to equate freedom with communism. They are supported in this belief by a legislature which brands all exponents of democratic government and African freedom as communists and bans many of them (who are not communists) under the Suppression of Communism Act. Although I have never been a member of the Communist party, I myself have been imprisoned under that act.

Nelson Mandela: An ideal for which I am prepared to die | World news | theguardian.com

 

[paperview]

Excellent article here on the Constitution Mandela signed:

In 2012, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg made the impolitic suggestion that “I would not look to the U.S. Constitution, if I were drafting a Constitution in the year 2012,” instead pointing foreign constitution drafters to the constitution the late South African leader Nelson Mandela signed in 1996. Her statement received the predictable response from many conservative voices. One publication called for her to resign.


The truth, however, is that the United States could learn a great deal from South Africa’s constitution. As Ginsburg noted, that constitution was drafted much more recently than America’s 226 year-old founding text. Accordingly, its drafters benefited from more than two centuries of human experience that our founding fathers did not have. Ginsburg in no way impugned the genius of George Washington, James Madison or Alexander Hamilton when she suggested that these men could not possibility have known the things that we know today — and that nations drafting new constitutions should benefit from the full range of human experience.


The South African Constitution begins with an absolutely breathtaking first passage: “We, the people of South Africa, Recognise the injustices of our past.” This is not just a document drafted by men dissatisfied by their lack of representation in a distant central government. Rather, this the constitution of a nation that is profoundly aware of how governments can go wrong — and why the inherent human rights of every individual must be honored to ward off atrocity.

The South African Constitution, by contrast, devotes 32 different articles to individual rights before it even mentions the structure of government. While America’s founders were primarily worried about how lawmakers would be selected and what powers they would and would not have, South Africa’s Constitution begins with a statement of human rights. It’s drafters wanted first and foremost to ensure that nothing like apartheid would ever exist again.

Read the rest here: What Americans Can Learn From The Constitution Nelson Mandela Signed | ThinkProgress

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I'm not allowed to respond as far as I can tell..

You could do an honest google search on your own, I suppose, if you were interested..

I did!

Mandela was actively working against Apartheid but the case against him was a complete farce. The Apartheid regime was comprised of racists and yes-men. They had very little in the way of intellectuals. Mandela was more than a match for them when it comes to brains. They were scared of him and his ability to speak effectively and eloquently. That was why they restricted his communication with the outside world. It was censorship by imprisonment. BTW the Apartheid regime became more and more draconian as time went by. It was totally corrupt and spent the nation into massive debt purchasing arms. If you want the full story then do an honest google search on Apartheid too. As I said Mandela was no angel but it was the Apartheid regime that was truly evil in every sense of the word.

On the communism charge, Mandela explains in one of his speeches:

It is true that there has often been close cooperation between the ANC and the Communist party.

But cooperation is merely proof of a common goal - in this case the removal of white supremacy - and is not proof of a complete community of interests. The history of the world is full of similar examples. Perhaps the most striking is the cooperation between Great Britain, the United States and the Soviet Union in the fight against Hitler. Nobody but Hitler would have dared to suggest that such cooperation turned Churchill or Roosevelt into communists. Theoretical differences amongst those fighting against oppression is a luxury we cannot afford at this stage.

What is more, for many decades communists were the only political group in South Africa prepared to treat Africans as human beings and their equals; who were prepared to eat with us; talk with us, live with us, and work with us.

They were the only group which was prepared to work with the Africans for the attainment of political rights and a stake in society. Because of this, there are many Africans who, today, tend to equate freedom with communism. They are supported in this belief by a legislature which brands all exponents of democratic government and African freedom as communists and bans many of them (who are not communists) under the Suppression of Communism Act. Although I have never been a member of the Communist party, I myself have been imprisoned under that act.

Nelson Mandela: An ideal for which I am prepared to die | World news | theguardian.com

But cooperation is merely proof of a common goal

OH hell no he's not a communist

 

[Esmeralda]

Cooperation is such a very bad thing.

Everyone who believes in cooperation is a communist!

And communists are

 

[Derideo_Te]

I'm not allowed to respond as far as I can tell..

You could do an honest google search on your own, I suppose, if you were interested..

I did!

Mandela was actively working against Apartheid but the case against him was a complete farce. The Apartheid regime was comprised of racists and yes-men. They had very little in the way of intellectuals. Mandela was more than a match for them when it comes to brains. They were scared of him and his ability to speak effectively and eloquently. That was why they restricted his communication with the outside world. It was censorship by imprisonment. BTW the Apartheid regime became more and more draconian as time went by. It was totally corrupt and spent the nation into massive debt purchasing arms. If you want the full story then do an honest google search on Apartheid too. As I said Mandela was no angel but it was the Apartheid regime that was truly evil in every sense of the word.

You believe what you choose to believe. I've pretty had enough of this subject. I could actually care less that he was a terrorist leader and thousands died because of it. It's not up to me to pull you away from all this liberal revisionist poppy-cock.. enjoy the delusion.

Here is a transcript chosen at random from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of the South African Police conspiring and subsequently murdering someone and making it appear as though it was done by the ANC in exchange for amnesty.

PROCEEDINGS HELD AT

Just one of thousands of such admissions;

TRC/Amnesty Hearings and Decisions

If you want to believe that their sworn testimony is "liberal revisionist poppy-cock" then sobeit.

 

[Derideo_Te]

You believe what you choose to believe. I've pretty had enough of this subject. I could actually care less that he was a terrorist leader and thousands died because of it. It's not up to me to pull you away from all this liberal revisionist poppy-cock.. enjoy the delusion.

I find racist race baiters far to easy to predict, they come and go, enjoy your time here.

Not "race baiting" at all, just trying to be fair to both sides. They were both guilty of heinous atrocities but it was the leadership of Mandela that took them above and beyond the racism of the past and into a new future together.

 

[Derideo_Te]

each south african day sees an average of 59 murders, 145 rapes and 752 serious assaults out of its 42 million population. The new crime is the rape of babies; some aids-infected african men believe that having sex with a virgin is a cure. Twelve percent of south africa's population is hiv-positive, but president mbeki says that hiv cannot cause aids.

In response to growing violence, south africa's minister of safety and security, steve tshwete, says: "we can't police this; there's nothing more we can do. South africa's currency, the rand, has fallen about 70 percent since the african national congress (anc) came to power in 1994. Emigration from south africa (mainly of skilled people) is now at its highest level ever."

walter williams

2001?

 

[Esmeralda]

I'm not allowed to respond as far as I can tell..

You could do an honest google search on your own, I suppose, if you were interested..

I did!

Mandela was actively working against Apartheid but the case against him was a complete farce. The Apartheid regime was comprised of racists and yes-men. They had very little in the way of intellectuals. Mandela was more than a match for them when it comes to brains. They were scared of him and his ability to speak effectively and eloquently. That was why they restricted his communication with the outside world. It was censorship by imprisonment. BTW the Apartheid regime became more and more draconian as time went by. It was totally corrupt and spent the nation into massive debt purchasing arms. If you want the full story then do an honest google search on Apartheid too. As I said Mandela was no angel but it was the Apartheid regime that was truly evil in every sense of the word.

You believe what you choose to believe. I've pretty had enough of this subject. I could actually care less that he was a terrorist leader and thousands died because of it. It's not up to me to pull you away from all this liberal revisionist poppy-cock.. enjoy the delusion.

Thousands and thousands more died because of apartheid and the brutal oppression of the apartheid government. That is why people wanted to end it. It wasn't just about having separate schools or toilets or even towns, it was that apartheid made life miserable, unhealthy, and sub-human for those whom apartheid oppressed. They were treated brutally by the reigning white government. Do you think a regime which openly tortured political prisoners was kind to the oppressed black minority? How ignorant and small minded does one have to be to not understand that, to not know about that?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Cooperation is such a very bad thing.

Everyone who believes in cooperation is a communist!

And communists are

No not cooperation but the common goal

cooperation is merely proof of a common goal

Would I cooperate with an anti gunner would I have a common goal with one?

 

[Peterf]

Dude, even Rush Limbaugh was praising Mandela today. You're way off on your own in lalaland here.

Whenever I see someone insulting a person like Mandela, or yes - Obama. Not that they're on the same playing field BUT look what they have each accomplished in their lives. And you're going to sit there and claim that either they didn't do shit or worse, they did damage?

What have YOU done? Seriously. Tell me where you have room to talk, because you have accomplished such great things in your life.

Or, you know. Just STFU.

From very humble backgrounds both Stalin and Hitler accomplished great things, reached the top in their respective countries. But do you know what? I prefer every poster here to either of them.

 

[Peterf]

Excellent article here on the Constitution Mandela signed:

In 2012, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg made the impolitic suggestion that “I would not look to the U.S. Constitution, if I were drafting a Constitution in the year 2012,” instead pointing foreign constitution drafters to the constitution the late South African leader Nelson Mandela signed in 1996. Her statement received the predictable response from many conservative voices. One publication called for her to resign.


The truth, however, is that the United States could learn a great deal from South Africa’s constitution. As Ginsburg noted, that constitution was drafted much more recently than America’s 226 year-old founding text. Accordingly, its drafters benefited from more than two centuries of human experience that our founding fathers did not have. Ginsburg in no way impugned the genius of George Washington, James Madison or Alexander Hamilton when she suggested that these men could not possibility have known the things that we know today — and that nations drafting new constitutions should benefit from the full range of human experience.


The South African Constitution begins with an absolutely breathtaking first passage: “We, the people of South Africa, Recognise the injustices of our past.” This is not just a document drafted by men dissatisfied by their lack of representation in a distant central government. Rather, this the constitution of a nation that is profoundly aware of how governments can go wrong — and why the inherent human rights of every individual must be honored to ward off atrocity.

The South African Constitution, by contrast, devotes 32 different articles to individual rights before it even mentions the structure of government. While America’s founders were primarily worried about how lawmakers would be selected and what powers they would and would not have, South Africa’s Constitution begins with a statement of human rights. It’s drafters wanted first and foremost to ensure that nothing like apartheid would ever exist again.

Read the rest here: What Americans Can Learn From The Constitution Nelson Mandela Signed | ThinkProgress

The USSR had a constitution guaranteeing freedom of speech at the time millions were murdered because they criticised communism.

S Africa has this marvellous constitution but lives under the monster President Jacob Zuma and his rotten, corrupt ANC.

Unimplemented constitutions are just worthless scraps of paper, good only to impress gullible foreigners.

 

[Peterf]

Do you mean what you say?

I mean it when I say you are hilarious, TOUGH GUY. But really, start a new thread for this.

I look after the well being of posters here when I say, flame elsewhere! This is a tribute thread to Nelson Mandela! This is not a tribute to vanity!

Well I'll be blowed! I thought it was a thread examining Mr Mandela's place in history. You mean only posts - 'tributes' - full of mindless Mandela worship are allowed here?

 

[Derideo_Te]

Dude, even Rush Limbaugh was praising Mandela today. You're way off on your own in lalaland here.

Whenever I see someone insulting a person like Mandela, or yes - Obama. Not that they're on the same playing field BUT look what they have each accomplished in their lives. And you're going to sit there and claim that either they didn't do shit or worse, they did damage?

What have YOU done? Seriously. Tell me where you have room to talk, because you have accomplished such great things in your life.

Or, you know. Just STFU.

From very humble backgrounds both Stalin and Hitler accomplished great things, reached the top in their respective countries. But do you know what? I prefer every poster here to either of them.

Godwin's Law destroys what few shreds of credibility Peterf had left.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Excellent article here on the Constitution Mandela signed:

In 2012, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg made the impolitic suggestion that “I would not look to the U.S. Constitution, if I were drafting a Constitution in the year 2012,” instead pointing foreign constitution drafters to the constitution the late South African leader Nelson Mandela signed in 1996. Her statement received the predictable response from many conservative voices. One publication called for her to resign.


The truth, however, is that the United States could learn a great deal from South Africa’s constitution. As Ginsburg noted, that constitution was drafted much more recently than America’s 226 year-old founding text. Accordingly, its drafters benefited from more than two centuries of human experience that our founding fathers did not have. Ginsburg in no way impugned the genius of George Washington, James Madison or Alexander Hamilton when she suggested that these men could not possibility have known the things that we know today — and that nations drafting new constitutions should benefit from the full range of human experience.


The South African Constitution begins with an absolutely breathtaking first passage: “We, the people of South Africa, Recognise the injustices of our past.” This is not just a document drafted by men dissatisfied by their lack of representation in a distant central government. Rather, this the constitution of a nation that is profoundly aware of how governments can go wrong — and why the inherent human rights of every individual must be honored to ward off atrocity.

The South African Constitution, by contrast, devotes 32 different articles to individual rights before it even mentions the structure of government. While America’s founders were primarily worried about how lawmakers would be selected and what powers they would and would not have, South Africa’s Constitution begins with a statement of human rights. It’s drafters wanted first and foremost to ensure that nothing like apartheid would ever exist again.

Read the rest here: What Americans Can Learn From The Constitution Nelson Mandela Signed | ThinkProgress

The USSR had a constitution guaranteeing freedom of speech at the time millions were murdered because they criticised communism.

S Africa has this marvellous constitution but lives under the monster President Jacob Zuma and his rotten, corrupt ANC.

Unimplemented constitutions are just worthless scraps of paper, good only to impress gullible foreigners.

What country did you say that you live in?