Neil Degrasse Tyson now believes in God, as he says that a great programmer created the universe and us as well

[ding]

So then your mind is not stronger than my mind? But I'm a Christian. How can that be?

As it pertains to this discussion on religion, I've already told you that the difference is neglibible, and it will remain so until you can elaborate on how our beliefs differ.

How can that be deceitful ding?
I'm being very honest in saying that I don't believe a shred of your bibles or your christian beliefs.

Are you being deceitful on claiming to be a christian but not coming clean on what you accept and that which you reject?

Let's talk about that deceit you accuse me of.
I think you were being careless when you chose to accuse me of being deceitful.

I think you demonstrate your own deceit between you and your god, as opposed to having the courage to be honest with me.

Our difference in interpretation and beliefs are wider than the Grand canyon. So there's an example of your deceit. You do that all the time.

So how come your mind isn't stronger than mine?

 

[Donald H]

The really sad thing is that this guy actually believes that he is an atheist yet ha clearly says that the universe was CREATED by a programmer. While he does not use the word God he describes God exactly as creationist do.

Oh well

You should have tried to promote your nonsense in the religion section.

There is no doubt that Christians are desperate to claim a well known scientist back into the believers flock.

Instead, rationally thinking people are moving the other way in increasing numbers.

Yea right, like the Moon Bats believing that the universe created itself out of nothing. You know, like in magic. That doesn't even pass the snicker test.

You can accuse the entire human race as being ignorant moonbats, because we simply don't have the capacity to understand how the universe was created.

But science is beginning to come close to being able to understand.

But the problem will still be, hardly any person will be able to understand science's explanation.

So Christians can offer their explanations which will have to do for now.

Personally, if I was a christian I would like the 'faith' explanation the best because it offers some satisfaction to minds that can sweep the question under the rug.

You may be a little confused about this.

We don't have a clue how the universe was created.

However, after you boil down all the berries it comes to only one of two possibilities.

Either we are here because of some intelligent design or the universe magically created itself out of nothing.

I reject magic, as I would hope all logical thinkers would do. 'Magic' is a replacement for not being able to understand the truth or the facts. That's as true with your god as it is with any magic show by a person calling themself a magician.

Like I said, the magic idea doesn't even pass the snicker test.

Absolutely right and it never does in any instance in which we are being misled by a magician or by religions.

Talk about sweeping things under the rug but the Big Bang Theory is that. Many scientists will tell you that is nothing more than a place holder to explain the unexplainable.

The Big Bang isn't settled science but it has it's adherents among the scientific community.

They can't tell you what was here before the BB, what initiated the BB, where the energy for the BB came from or even the physics of the BB. They come up with silly shit like "The Laws of Physics didn't exist in the BB".

The idea of intelligent design is far more credible.

The idea of ID has been completely discredited by the ID'ers who attempted to use their pseudo-science against mainstream science.

Christians need to run away as quick as they can from the term. Christianity blew it's credibility when it attempted to prove their point with 'irreducible complexity'.

Follow the discussion with ding. He's a backsliding christian who rejects the word of his god as written in his bibles.

When you come to understand his position you may want to either agree with him or proclaim him to be a backslider.

Are you a complete and true believer?
Or have you thrown out your bibles too?

 

[ding]

You will have to excuse Donald. He's not much of a thinker.

 

[Donald H]

Our difference in interpretation and beliefs are wider than the Grand canyon. So there's an example of your deceit. You do that all the time.

You're afraid to mention any specific examples of how we disgree.

So how come your mind isn't stronger than mine?

You fear presenting any of your beliefs and so your mind is a blank slate to me. I can't compare to 'nothing'!
I have to suspect that you believe nothing that is related to christian beliefs.
On that we'll just have to be happy with not comparing minds.

But we 'can' compare honesty as compared to dishonesty.

 

[Flash]

The really sad thing is that this guy actually believes that he is an atheist yet ha clearly says that the universe was CREATED by a programmer. While he does not use the word God he describes God exactly as creationist do.

Oh well

You should have tried to promote your nonsense in the religion section.

There is no doubt that Christians are desperate to claim a well known scientist back into the believers flock.

Instead, rationally thinking people are moving the other way in increasing numbers.

Yea right, like the Moon Bats believing that the universe created itself out of nothing. You know, like in magic. That doesn't even pass the snicker test.

You can accuse the entire human race as being ignorant moonbats, because we simply don't have the capacity to understand how the universe was created.

But science is beginning to come close to being able to understand.

But the problem will still be, hardly any person will be able to understand science's explanation.

So Christians can offer their explanations which will have to do for now.

Personally, if I was a christian I would like the 'faith' explanation the best because it offers some satisfaction to minds that can sweep the question under the rug.

You may be a little confused about this.

We don't have a clue how the universe was created.

However, after you boil down all the berries it comes to only one of two possibilities.

Either we are here because of some intelligent design or the universe magically created itself out of nothing.

I reject magic, as I would hope all logical thinkers would do. 'Magic' is a replacement for not being able to understand the truth or the facts. That's as true with your god as it is with any magic show by a person calling themself a magician.

Like I said, the magic idea doesn't even pass the snicker test.

Absolutely right and it never does in any instance in which we are being misled by a magician or by religions.

Talk about sweeping things under the rug but the Big Bang Theory is that. Many scientists will tell you that is nothing more than a place holder to explain the unexplainable.

The Big Bang isn't settled science but it has it's adherents among the scientific community.

They can't tell you what was here before the BB, what initiated the BB, where the energy for the BB came from or even the physics of the BB. They come up with silly shit like "The Laws of Physics didn't exist in the BB".

The idea of intelligent design is far more credible.

The idea of ID has been completely discredited by the ID'ers who attempted to use their pseudo-science against mainstream science.

Christians need to run away as quick as they can from the term. Christianity blew it's credibility when it attempted to prove their point with 'irreducible complexity'.

Follow the discussion with ding. He's a backsliding christian who rejects the word of his god as written in his bibles.

When you come to understand his position you may want to either agree with him or proclaim him to be a backslider.

Are you a complete and true believer?
Or have you thrown out your bibles too?

The idea of ID is the only viable explanation for us being here. The idea that the universe magically created itself out of nothing is so far fetched as to be laughable.

Intelligent Design hasn't been discredited by anybody with the ability to reason.

If you don't want to accept Christianity because it offends your lack of morals or whatever then fine. Did somebody once tell you that you were going to Hell because they caught you masturbating or whatever and you were pissed? Go ahead and believe in your silly little magic.

I chose to beleive that this unverse is far more complex than any of us could ever imagine and it just didn't suddenly appear by happenstance. There is a Creator and He created the Heavens and the Earth.

 

[Donald H]

Our difference in interpretation and beliefs are wider than the Grand canyon. So there's an example of your deceit. You do that all the time.

NO ding, in fact we disagree on nothing so far. And that's not to say that the Grand canyon isn't wide.
Allow me to help you out of your box with an example of something on which we 'might' disagree.

Do you believe that jesus christ was a mortal, was non-existent, or was a supernatural being?
Be careful if you can summon up the courage to answer me. It could be a trap I'm setting in order to make things even worse for you!

 

[Donald H]

The idea of ID is the only viable explanation for us being here. The idea that the universe magically created itself out of nothing is so far fetched as to be laughable.

I've already made it clear to you that I reject magic. Yes, it's laughable.

Intelligent Design hasn't been discredited by anybody with the ability to reason.

[/QUOTE]

The ID'ers were destroyed in the courts. They were attempting to have religious superstitious beliefs taught alongside science. (Dover)

If you don't want to accept Christianity because it offends your lack of morals or whatever then fine. Did somebody once tell you that you were going to Hell because they caught you masturbating or whatever and you were pissed? Go ahead and believe in your silly little magic.

Don't your bibles teach that masturbation is bad?
Personally, I've never had any difficulty understanding that it's natural human behaviour. What do you believe on masturbation?

I chose to beleive that this unverse is far more complex than any of us could ever imagine and it just didn't suddenly appear by happenstance. There is a Creator and He created the Heavens and the Earth.

Isn't that two sentences from you that contradict each other?

The universe being too complex to imagine is another way of saying what I said on our inability to understand. Yet you immediately turn a 180 and offer your belief that there is a creator who created everything.

I don't buy it but your faith has bought it, hook, line, and sinker.

Are you a believer in your god's word as it's stated in your bibles? Or are you another conditional believer just like ding?

He doesn't believe all of it but he's still afraid to say what's the true word and what's comlete bullshit.

 

[Dusty]

The idea of ID is the only viable explanation for us being here. The idea that the universe magically created itself out of nothing is so far fetched as to be laughable.

I've already made it clear to you that I reject magic. Yes, it's laughable.

Intelligent Design hasn't been discredited by anybody with the ability to reason.

The ID'ers were destroyed in the courts. They were attempting to have religious superstitious beliefs taught alongside science. (Dover)

If you don't want to accept Christianity because it offends your lack of morals or whatever then fine. Did somebody once tell you that you were going to Hell because they caught you masturbating or whatever and you were pissed? Go ahead and believe in your silly little magic.

Don't your bibles teach that masturbation is bad?
Personally, I've never had any difficulty understanding that it's natural human behaviour. What do you believe on masturbation?

I chose to beleive that this unverse is far more complex than any of us could ever imagine and it just didn't suddenly appear by happenstance. There is a Creator and He created the Heavens and the Earth.

Isn't that two sentences from you that contradict each other?

The universe being too complex to imagine is another way of saying what I said on our inability to understand. Yet you immediately turn a 180 and offer your belief that there is a creator who created everything.

I don't buy it but your faith has bought it, hook, line, and sinker.

Are you a believer in your god's word as it's stated in your bibles? Or are you another conditional believer just like ding?

He doesn't believe all of it but he's still afraid to say what's the true word and what's comlete bullshit.
[/QUOTE]
The universe will be fully understood as God made us in his image, so given time we will have all of his ability as well

 

[Donald H]

The universe will be fully understood as God made us in his image, so given time we will have all of his ability as well

Maybe, but until we 'do' understand then it's a contradiction to say that god made us in his image if he is believed to be all-knowing.[/quote]

You're only suggesting that some future humans will be made in what is being suggested as the god's image.

Maybe the human being that came closest to knowing as much as the god was Stephen Hawking, but he believed that christianity was all bullshit. All super intelligent people do of course, with the exception of a few super intelligent humans who were imprinted with fictional beliefs in childhood, and can't escape from it.

It's definitely an issue for christianity in that our minds aren't equal to the supposed image.
And the smarter humanity gets, the more we depart from that superstitious 'god image' nonsense.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

The really sad thing is that this guy actually believes that he is an atheist yet ha clearly says that the universe was CREATED by a programmer. While he does not use the word God he describes God exactly as creationist do.

Oh well

In the big atheist thread I cited DeGrasse Tyson as one of the physicists who have cited a belief in God
(although the pop physicist is careful not to use the term God explicitly) after carefully considering
the matter. Ipso facto.

The more they know about the universe the more it's not possible to see the cosmos as a random
unguided sort of place. Where there is a plan there is also a planner.

It doesn't please the atheists but they have to take responsibility for their own choices and illogical, irrational thinking.
This always brings about lots of juvenile mockery and tired old cranky responses but it is what it is.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

You will have to excuse Donald. He's not much of a thinker.

That's putting things very lightly indeed!

 

[Donald H]

You will have to excuse Donald. He's not much of a thinker.

That's putting things very lightly indeed!

Ding is a self-proclaimed atheist who is pretending to be a 'conditional' christian believer.
Him and I have nothing we disagree upon, other than he doesn't like me and so he calls me stupid. I can accept the 'stupid' part in that I'm not all-knowing like your god. And of course I'm a heathen in that I'm not made in HIS image. How 'stupid' can it get?

I can only commend ding for his conditional belief in a god and his rejection of the word of his god as is stated in his bibles.

And you?

The only christian belief I don't question is the understanding that the earth is 6000 years old.
(a special kind of years that is)
Is that what you believe too?

 

[Hollie]

The really sad thing is that this guy actually believes that he is an atheist yet ha clearly says that the universe was CREATED by a programmer. While he does not use the word God he describes God exactly as creationist do.

Oh well

You should have tried to promote your nonsense in the religion section.

There is no doubt that Christians are desperate to claim a well known scientist back into the believers flock.

Instead, rationally thinking people are moving the other way in increasing numbers.

Yea right, like the Moon Bats believing that the universe created itself out of nothing. You know, like in magic. That doesn't even pass the snicker test.

You can accuse the entire human race as being ignorant moonbats, because we simply don't have the capacity to understand how the universe was created.

But science is beginning to come close to being able to understand.

But the problem will still be, hardly any person will be able to understand science's explanation.

So Christians can offer their explanations which will have to do for now.

Personally, if I was a christian I would like the 'faith' explanation the best because it offers some satisfaction to minds that can sweep the question under the rug.

You may be a little confused about this.

We don't have a clue how the universe was created.

However, after you boil down all the berries it comes to only one of two possibilities.

Either we are here because of some intelligent design or the universe magically created itself out of nothing.

I reject magic, as I would hope all logical thinkers would do. 'Magic' is a replacement for not being able to understand the truth or the facts. That's as true with your god as it is with any magic show by a person calling themself a magician.

Like I said, the magic idea doesn't even pass the snicker test.

Absolutely right and it never does in any instance in which we are being misled by a magician or by religions.

Talk about sweeping things under the rug but the Big Bang Theory is that. Many scientists will tell you that is nothing more than a place holder to explain the unexplainable.

The Big Bang isn't settled science but it has it's adherents among the scientific community.

They can't tell you what was here before the BB, what initiated the BB, where the energy for the BB came from or even the physics of the BB. They come up with silly shit like "The Laws of Physics didn't exist in the BB".

The idea of intelligent design is far more credible.

The idea of ID has been completely discredited by the ID'ers who attempted to use their pseudo-science against mainstream science.

Christians need to run away as quick as they can from the term. Christianity blew it's credibility when it attempted to prove their point with 'irreducible complexity'.

Follow the discussion with ding. He's a backsliding christian who rejects the word of his god as written in his bibles.

When you come to understand his position you may want to either agree with him or proclaim him to be a backslider.

Are you a complete and true believer?
Or have you thrown out your bibles too?

The idea of ID is the only viable explanation for us being here. The idea that the universe magically created itself out of nothing is so far fetched as to be laughable.

Intelligent Design hasn't been discredited by anybody with the ability to reason.

If you don't want to accept Christianity because it offends your lack of morals or whatever then fine. Did somebody once tell you that you were going to Hell because they caught you masturbating or whatever and you were pissed? Go ahead and believe in your silly little magic.

I chose to beleive that this unverse is far more complex than any of us could ever imagine and it just didn't suddenly appear by happenstance. There is a Creator and He created the Heavens and the Earth.

ID'iot creationism is the least likely explanation for us being here. Even less likely a cause would be the Christian gods as opposed to the unionized Greek gods.

Existence is natural, patterns form out of the exchange of energy, life evolved in some places, competition for that life implemented social structures, sentience ignited that social structure to a more and more complicated degree... and allowed for technology to extend the perceptions of humans to further and further reaches, chipping away at old, perhaps poetic but nonetheless outdated beliefs created by a ruling class that knew the power of ignorance and fear in people made them vastly more controllable

 

[Donald H]

ID'iot creationism is the least likely explanation for us being here. Even less likely a cause would be the Christian gods as opposed to the unionized Greek gods.

Existence is natural, patterns form out of the exchange of energy, life evolved in some places, competition for that life implemented social structures, sentience ignited that social structure to a more and more complicated degree... and allowed for technology to extend the perceptions of humans to further and further reaches, chipping away at old, perhaps poetic but nonetheless outdated beliefs created by a ruling class that knew the power of ignorance and fear in people made them vastly more controllable

The ID nonsense crashed and burned in the Dover trial, which you would likely know all about too.

 

[Donald H]

And so to wrap things up for my part, for now at least.

I'm an atheist but I have nothing against true christian believers.

I do have something against people such as ]b[ding[/b] who pretend to be christians but have proclaimed themselves to be 'conditional' believers, when it suits their mood to believe. Our ding has made it very clear that he doesn't believe in his bibles as the word of his god.

In my opinion that's deceitful and dishonest!

And not to mention that another certain individual is following his lead by refusing to proclaim his/herself to be a true and unconditional believer in the god!

May the 'conditional' believers burn in ........................ (a bonfire).

 

[Hollie]

ID'iot creationism is the least likely explanation for us being here. Even less likely a cause would be the Christian gods as opposed to the unionized Greek gods.

Existence is natural, patterns form out of the exchange of energy, life evolved in some places, competition for that life implemented social structures, sentience ignited that social structure to a more and more complicated degree... and allowed for technology to extend the perceptions of humans to further and further reaches, chipping away at old, perhaps poetic but nonetheless outdated beliefs created by a ruling class that knew the power of ignorance and fear in people made them vastly more controllable

The ID nonsense crashed and burned in the Dover trial, which you would likely know all about too.

Dover was perhaps the last gasp for fundamentalist Christians to force religion nto the public schools. Earlier attempts by fundie christians to force Christian creationism into the schools made no effort to conceal the agenda of promoting Biblical literalism. Those efforts were originally titled as "Biblical Creationism" with great candor. Faced with the correct legal conclusions that it was merely religion, they retreated and renamed it "Scientific Creationism," making a half hearted attempt to edit out explicit Biblical references... but that fooled no one. When that met an equally unambiguous decision in the courts, the new version became "Intelligent Design." In the process, the creationist movement has become progressively less candid, more angry, more extremist and frankly more pathetic.

 

[ding]

Our difference in interpretation and beliefs are wider than the Grand canyon. So there's an example of your deceit. You do that all the time.

You're afraid to mention any specific examples of how we disgree.

So how come your mind isn't stronger than mine?

You fear presenting any of your beliefs and so your mind is a blank slate to me. I can't compare to 'nothing'!
I have to suspect that you believe nothing that is related to christian beliefs.
On that we'll just have to be happy with not comparing minds.

But we 'can' compare honesty as compared to dishonesty.

Let's see I believe God created existence and you don't? That's a pretty big specific difference.

I present my beliefs all the time. You people can't shut me up. God created existence so that we could share in His existence. How is that not a Christian belief?

You aren't a thinker. There's no shame in that. But you don't have to resort to lying, Don.

 

[ding]

Our difference in interpretation and beliefs are wider than the Grand canyon. So there's an example of your deceit. You do that all the time.

NO ding, in fact we disagree on nothing so far. And that's not to say that the Grand canyon isn't wide.
Allow me to help you out of your box with an example of something on which we 'might' disagree.

Do you believe that jesus christ was a mortal, was non-existent, or was a supernatural being?
Be careful if you can summon up the courage to answer me. It could be a trap I'm setting in order to make things even worse for you!

You mean other than God creating the universe from nothing? I'd say we disagree on quite a bit.

Jesus IS fully human and fully God. It's a core belief of the Christian faith.

 

[Dusty]

And so to wrap things up for my part, for now at least.

I'm an atheist but I have nothing against true christian believers.

I do have something against people such as ]b[ding[/b] who pretend to be christians but have proclaimed themselves to be 'conditional' believers, when it suits their mood to believe. Our ding has made it very clear that he doesn't believe in his bibles as the word of his god.

In my opinion that's deceitful and dishonest!

And not to mention that another certain individual is following his lead by refusing to proclaim his/herself to be a true and unconditional believer in the god!

May the 'conditional' believers burn in ........................ (a bonfire).

There is no one bible so it's actually common knowledge that the bible is not the word of God

 

[ding]

I've already made it clear to you that I reject magic. Yes, it's laughable.

God doesn't do magic. Which is the reason you don't believe in God.

You can't even figure out how to use the reply feature without messing up the quote chain, how can you possibly understand a multi-dimensional being outside of space and time.