Zone1 “ Native American reservations” must be eliminated and they can join us fellow Americans

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

That these exist in America is a shame. At the Seneca casinos…. non-so-called natives cannot join the union….

With a topic like this it’s never enough to say I believe in equality and respect for all….the far left is crazy …in pursuit of “ social Justice “ they don’t understand common sense. Yes this is a simplistic issue violence and land expansion is a human thing not limited to anyone group of history.

That some Americans feel the need to defend reservations is really mind-boggling. It makes no sense because every group of people have their struggles that’s it yes there is right there

Reservations are a disaster according to those who live there. Alcoholism is rampant as is depression. Reservations promote weakness and are a disgrace to the tribes of America.

If non native people get hurt on so-called soverign land they can’t sue… happened to a friend of mine…. there’s many other examples of these types of injustices.

The biggest of all look at the Seneca casino if you’re not a part of the seneca nation and you work at this casino you cannot join your union. Nobody can make an excuse for this crime by the seneca nation.

Americans who think that we “stole their land” have led to a weakness in our society.

As a “Irish” American I don’t hate the British… The same logic has to apply to every group of people in the world.

The day we demolish all native reservations is one of the great days of this country’s history. We should’ve never had these reservations in the first place. We don’t have any Spanish or Mexican or French reservations in this country so there is literally no logic for Indian reservation to exist in this country. They need to be eliminated there’s no more sovereign land that we are all equal as Americans that’s it.

It’s 2023 ….

 

[candycorn]

We did steal their land. We violated treaties and/or removed them by force.

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

We did steal their land. We violated treaties and/or removed them by force.

This is the clean zone don’t use those emojis I don’t do it to you brother

No lands change hands over time…. and the native tribes fought each other just like the Europeans did.

We need equal laws.

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

“Preserving one’s identity “

Italian American, Irish American, Native American we could all do this and live equally.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

We did steal their land. We violated treaties and/or removed them by force.

As did every other civilization currently in existence. What is your point?

By the way, the Native Americans frequently fought with each other, stole each other’s lands, and even enslaved each other long before white people came here

 

[White 6]

That these exist in America is a shame. At the Seneca casinos…. non-so-called natives cannot join the union….

With a topic like this it’s never enough to say I believe in equality and respect for all….the far left is crazy …in pursuit of “ social Justice “ they don’t understand common sense. Yes this is a simplistic issue violence and land expansion is a human thing not limited to anyone group of history.

That some Americans feel the need to defend reservations is really mind-boggling. It makes no sense because every group of people have their struggles that’s it yes there is right there

Reservations are a disaster according to those who live there. Alcoholism is rampant as is depression. Reservations promote weakness and are a disgrace to the tribes of America.

If non native people get hurt on so-called soverign land they can’t sue… happened to a friend of mine…. there’s many other examples of these types of injustices.

The biggest of all look at the Seneca casino if you’re not a part of the seneca nation and you work at this casino you cannot join your union. Nobody can make an excuse for this crime by the seneca nation.

Americans who think that we “stole their land” have led to a weakness in our society.

As a “Irish” American I don’t hate the British… The same logic has to apply to every group of people in the world.

The day we demolish all native reservations is one of the great days of this country’s history. We should’ve never had these reservations in the first place. We don’t have any Spanish or Mexican or French reservations in this country so there is literally no logic for Indian reservation to exist in this country. They need to be eliminated there’s no more sovereign land that we are all equal as Americans that’s it.

It’s 2023 ….

You want to take the rest of their land, too? Have you told them this in person or do you want somebody else to do it?

 

[Dekster]

That these exist in America is a shame. At the Seneca casinos…. non-so-called natives cannot join the union….

With a topic like this it’s never enough to say I believe in equality and respect for all….the far left is crazy …in pursuit of “ social Justice “ they don’t understand common sense. Yes this is a simplistic issue violence and land expansion is a human thing not limited to anyone group of history.

That some Americans feel the need to defend reservations is really mind-boggling. It makes no sense because every group of people have their struggles that’s it yes there is right there

Reservations are a disaster according to those who live there. Alcoholism is rampant as is depression. Reservations promote weakness and are a disgrace to the tribes of America.

If non native people get hurt on so-called soverign land they can’t sue… happened to a friend of mine…. there’s many other examples of these types of injustices.

The biggest of all look at the Seneca casino if you’re not a part of the seneca nation and you work at this casino you cannot join your union. Nobody can make an excuse for this crime by the seneca nation.

Americans who think that we “stole their land” have led to a weakness in our society.

As a “Irish” American I don’t hate the British… The same logic has to apply to every group of people in the world.

The day we demolish all native reservations is one of the great days of this country’s history. We should’ve never had these reservations in the first place. We don’t have any Spanish or Mexican or French reservations in this country so there is literally no logic for Indian reservation to exist in this country. They need to be eliminated there’s no more sovereign land that we are all equal as Americans that’s it.

It’s 2023 ….

Just think of them as the original Militia if that makes their existence more palatable to you.

 

[candycorn]

As did every other civilization currently in existence. What is your point?

By the way, the Native Americans frequently fought with each other, stole each other’s lands, and even enslaved each other long before white people came here

Claiming we didn't is wrong. Claiming that acknowledging the truth that we did makes us "weak" is stupid.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

It isn't so much that we stole land. Everyone steals land in the formation of nations. It's that there are contracts in existence that preserve the tribe's sovereign ownership of that land. To be nitty gritty tribal land isn't technically part of the United States. It is sovereign territory. So sovereign that native Americans could not vote. They didn't get the vote until sometime in the 30s.

A foreign embassy is technically foreign soil. If the Italian embassy doesn't want union workers, the can get Tony the Fingers to do some non union repairs and the union has nothing to say. We are all equal on state or federal land. Cross a border and it's different.

 

[José]

Roosevelt,

This is what Orlando Villas Boas, one of the Villas Boas brothers, the most famous indigenists in Latin America said about the process of acculturation of native americans:

We are not total idiots to believe there will always be Indians.

We just want them to take the decision to abandon their traditional lifestyles and join the white civilization for themselves.

We don't want white people to take this decision for them.

 

[Grumblenuts]

As a “Irish” American I don’t hate the British… The same logic has to apply to every group of people in the world.

Okay. There's still a place called Ireland, no? There the inhabitants simply refer to themselves as Irish, no? How many treaties have we broken with the Irish? None, right? That would be the British. You know, that place we declared independence from once we'd stolen a bunch of other people's land over here, remember? Colonialism? Manifest Destiny? Ring any bells yet? How many Irish have we forced to live on reservations of our choosing then forced to move again? How many Irish children have we forced into boarding schools (assimilation camps)? The same logic applies, ay? Gee, how I (don't) wonder why both groups drink so much.

Treaties are binding agreements between nations and become part of international law. Treaties to which the United States is a party also have the force of federal legislation, forming part of what the Constitution calls ''the supreme Law of the Land.''

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

You want to take the rest of their land, too? Have you told them this in person or do you want somebody else to do it?

the United States is for all Americans. “Them “ are Our fellow Americans. Seneca Americans, Oneida Americans, Irish Americans Italian Americans this is our land …equal rights equal laws must be had for all.

Another one of my poker friends with the Sioux tribe. I have frank discussions with them all the time about native history and how we feel about these things. That’s what men do. I do not and I cannot and I would never agree with the view that “we “stole land as in we who is we were talking about events far removed from the present era.

Because the poker room at my local tribal casino closed I don’t have much of a chance to get down there and speak with some of the Seneca folks. I surely had many discussions with black panthers with Muslims I worked with at a Islamic school… Point is I hold nothing back. I am a man. I’m not afraid to dish out my viewpoint and I’m not afraid to hear what other people have to say …that’s America in motion


We live in an unequal country. I would like to see the tribal Americans who destroyed statues of Christopher Columbus apologize in public. That is a crime. Literally no different than a bunch of white people just destroying statues of tribal Americans for w/e reason they make up. It’s something that is against mutual respect. If we don’t have mutual respect we can’t have a society.

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

Roosevelt,

This is what Orlando Villas Boas, one of the Villas Boas brothers, the most famous indigenists in Latin America said about the process of acculturation of native americans:

We are not total idiots to believe there will always be Indians.

We just want them to take the decision to abandon their traditional lifestyles and join the white civilization for themselves.

We don't want white people to take this decision for them.

Can you expand on that brother. I don’t fully grasp the point of view.

I am saying we should have equal rights we should not have “sovereign land” for Irish Americans or tribal Americans whether the Seneca or the Oneida tribe.

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

Just think of them as the original Militia if that makes their existence more palatable to you.

The problem here is how there is often a knee-jerk reaction if folks see somebody say that we need to get rid of the Indian reservations. No that’s the right thing to do.

. Like for example what we saw during the summer of 2020 how some tribal Americans destroyed statues of Christopher Columbus. We can’t then say that all tribal Americans oppose the existence of white people …. even though some of them committed criminal actions to destroy statues of great men, these actions are offensive and they build resentment. The US Gov dropped the ball by not preventing that

It’s always an unfortunate sight when the United States government caves into things that make no sense like doing nothing about the destruction of statues of Christopher Columbus. Well actually we can ask ourselves is this being done on purpose? . You see these things keep happening …we keep seeing anti-American actions and no wonder people are saying is it being done on purpose?

. Nobody in the country is afaik literally nobody is calling for the elimination of any group of people. But this is the problem that this even has to be said.

Another problem with these conversations is how some people on the left will resort sarcasm or they won’t take things seriously and in their own minds they will think it’s absolutely fine that tribes can live on sovereign land and have better rights compared to non-tribal people. I mean the clear-cut example is how the travel casinos don’t allow non- natives to join the union. And this is a galvanizing cause for liberals to talk about. Liberals should do something about this

And it’s going to stop being sad. It’s really unfortunate to see for example on the media when sometimes people have to preface things because they’re afraid of being called a racist or something. There’s no place in America or in any civilized Society

These are very straightforward issues. If one is not a native American they cannot join the union at a tribal casino. That’s .1 that’s just a crime that’s immoral

.2 for example is this idea where if you’re not a part of the tribe and you get hurt on Southern land that you cannot sue are you gonna have a very difficult time going to court. So that his case in point number to a clear-cut injustice that makes absolutely no sense.

Point number three the fact that we have statues of tribal Americans but we are seeing Black Lives Matter supporters, tribal Americans and their white supporters destroying statues of Christopher Columbus. This is a moral this is a clear-cut case of a Pockrus he. Slavery was a worldwide issue. Indians own slaves so did Europeans.

And there are certainly many other points showing us a clear-cut situation where our own government is allowing this to happen they allow these situations to occur where we do not have mutual respect between groups in America. We need to have equality for all

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

Okay. There's still a place called Ireland, no? There the inhabitants simply refer to themselves as Irish, no? How many treaties have we broken with the Irish? None, right? That would be the British. You know, that place we declared independence from once we'd stolen a bunch of other people's land over here, remember? Colonialism? Manifest Destiny? Ring any bells yet? How many Irish have we forced to live on reservations of our choosing then forced to move again? How many Irish children have we forced into boarding schools (assimilation camps)? The same logic applies, ay? Gee, how I (don't) wonder why both groups drink so much.

The broken treaty argument goes both ways. That’s unfair because we’re going back hundreds of years. The point with the Irish is that for hundreds of years the British empire dominated Ireland. There is no real glorious history to Ireland at least compared to the British. The point is you don’t see me as an Irish American going around lambasting the British. Now I am proud of the Irish Republican Army and the Irish freedom movements from the 18th century to the 20th century. But I don’t say that we should hate the English people.

I think it is rude, dismissive and against mutual respect for an Indian to say oh you know the “white man stole our land”. Or for me as an Irish American say “you know those British limeys were brutal to the Irish”. I just don’t think that talking like that is appropriate. There’s another way.

I disagree with your approach. The tribes of America fought each other viciously just as the European Christians fight each other viciously just as Arabs have fought each other, just as Jews fought each other throughout history.

So I would certainly be against some sort of a museum for example like an Indian museum where they have films that talk about “the white oppressor” or how “the white man stole lan. Talking like that is not appropriate it doesn’t help anybody.

 

[Grumblenuts]

we should not have “sovereign land” for Irish Americans or tribal Americans whether the Seneca or the Oneida tribe.

Never mind that the Seneca NATION closed their three casinos due to the COVID pandemic, right? How many Seneca do you suppose have died over the centuries from exposure to us diseased European immigrants? How many of the Oneida NATION?

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

Never mind that the Seneca NATION closed their three casinos due to the COVID pandemic, right? How many Seneca do you suppose have died over the centuries from exposure to us diseased European immigrants? How many of the Oneida NATION?

I disagreed with your approach. Disease has spread throughout the world throughout history. One can turn around and say why did Indians scalp white woman throughout history. Talking like that is just as inappropriate as saying the white man stole land from the Indians….. no lands have changed hands throughout history.


The point is straight forward the Seneca casinos practice inequality, they allow the Seneca people to join the Union but they do not allow non-Seneca people to join the union. So that’s just a clear-cut infringement of human rights.


It’s about having mutual respect we don’t have that right now in America.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Nobody in the country is afaik literally nobody is calling for the elimination of any group of people.

You "eliminate" them every time you simply refer to them as "tribes." We are a nation. They are separate nations.

 

[Grumblenuts]

no lands have changed hands throughout history.

Wow, Custer really did finally stand for nothing, ay?

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

It isn't so much that we stole land. Everyone steals land in the formation of nations. It's that there are contracts in existence that preserve the tribe's sovereign ownership of that land. To be nitty gritty tribal land isn't technically part of the United States. It is sovereign territory. So sovereign that native Americans could not vote. They didn't get the vote until sometime in the 30s.

A foreign embassy is technically foreign soil. If the Italian embassy doesn't want union workers, the can get Tony the Fingers to do some non union repairs and the union has nothing to say. We are all equal on state or federal land. Cross a border and it's different.

None of us stole land . Americans don’t steal like that. Americans did not steal land from anybody. We fought for what is ours today.

The broken treaties argument is a nonstarter.

We are all Americans whether Seneca Irish American white American black American. This is 2023. We need to realize we should have a society based on mutual respect. It is my position based on common sense I would say that we cannot have reservations anymore. It makes no sense to have sovereign lands where if you’re not a part of a tribe you’ll be treated unequally it literally makes no sense at all. You cannot have a system where black Americans or Italian Americans work at the Seneca casinos and they’re not allowed to join a union

I am Irish and I celebrate my background all the time. Seneca people mohawk people can celebrate their heritage every day without having to have reservations


Another problem is let’s just say for example if you have three liberal white people and one white American maybe he’s a liberal maybe he’s a conservative but he doesn’t want reservations. And then there’s a tribal American and everyone’s talking with each other what time does that happen is the three liberal white man and the tribal guy will team up and they will train shout down the other white guy. It’s not a good situation doesn’t make any sense