My rant..... Lying in politics

Most of the public insist on being lied to by pols.

If your govt. is corrupt, it is definitely because the people are corrupt. Pols aren't dropped in from outer space, they're direct products of the culture they come from. Don't like it, change the culture.
 
Abraham Lincoln lied to get elected. If he was honest about how committed to Abolition he was, he would not have won. THe people did not want a bloody war, to free teh slaves.
 
Abraham Lincoln lied to get elected. If he was honest about how committed to Abolition he was, he would not have won. THe people did not want a bloody war, to free teh slaves.

He was committed to sending them all back to Africa. His state passed even stricter Black Codes in the 1850's that made it pretty much impossible for blacks to make a legal living in Illinois, and his Party ran on a platform of keeping all blacks out of the new territories. He also had his military governors in the conquered southern states force blacks to keep working on the plantations, and forced those who weren't needed into 'contraband camps', where as many as 700,000 died from starvation and disease. Most 'abolitionists' had the same views as Lincoln.
 
Step off you NPC.

Non-stop TDS out of you phony MiddleStain. You are now worse than CNN. Worse than FullBoardStain. At least they are honest about their TDS Obiden love.

You own it. You are as guilty as BoardStain loons....only you pretend.
 
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He was committed to sending them all back to Africa. His state passed even stricter Black Codes in the 1850's that made it pretty much impossible for blacks to make a legal living in Illinois, and his Party ran on a platform of keeping all blacks out of the new territories. He also had his military governors in the conquered southern states force blacks to keep working on the plantations, and forced those who weren't needed into 'contraband camps', where as many as 700,000 died from starvation and disease. Most 'abolitionists' had the same views as Lincoln.

He lied to get elected. He ended slavery. HOw do we as a society feel about that?
 
Over the years, Federalism has been subverted to the point that the Swamp runs everything and everyone now, and never holds itself to account.
I'm surprised you know this, and still seem to be obtuse to the same factors leading to the same type of conflict between the globalists and those who oppose them.

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I suppose you still believe that Trump is opposed to the globalists rather than being one of them?
 
Interesting topic. But lying - exaggerating etc will never stop as it often fits a world or social view. And today there is a media world that is so large, where would you start. Watch msnbc and then fox on the same topic. Fox fascinates me as it foreign owned, so why is it so popular among some Americans. I'm sure you know why but is it news? And politics complicates the issue as here the goal is in the background - legislation etc etc.

 
He lied to get elected. He ended slavery. HOw do we as a society feel about that?

He was a racist and amoral hack, just normal for the times. He didn't 'end slavery', he just redefined it to suit himself. He made sure they weren't going to flee to the Northern states or the new territories. The later pols didn't do any better, they pretty much refused to enforce the 14th Amendment and forced most blacks into 'share cropping' after the war, just slavery under another name. By 1867 'Reconstruction' was dead as an agenda.
 
Non-stop TDS out of you phony MiddleStain. You are now worse than CNN. Worse than FullBoardStain. At least they are honest about their TDS Obiden love.

You own it. You are as guilty as BoardStain loons....only you pretend.
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Interesting topic. But lying - exaggerating etc will never stop as it often fits a world or social view. And today there is a media world that is so large, where would you start. Watch msnbc and then fox on the same topic. Fox fascinates me as it foreign owned, so why is it so popular among some Americans. I'm sure you know why but is it news? And politics complicates the issue as here the goal is in the background - legislation etc etc.

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Poynter Institute​

 
"What is the cost of lies? It's not that we'll mistake them for the truth. The real danger is that if we hear enough lies, then we no longer recognize the truth at all. What can we do then? What else is left but to abandon even the hope of truth and content ourselves instead with stories? In these stories, it doesn't matter who the heroes are. All we want to know is: 'Who is to blame?'"

Applying this idea to politics reveals a similar—and deeply damaging—dynamic.

In the political arena, the true cost of widespread lying is that it normalizes dishonesty to the point where we come to expect it from leaders. We stop being shocked by falsehoods; instead, we accept them as standard behavior. Supporters defend their preferred politicians with lies or excuses, often simply because of loyalty to the "team." Opponents may exaggerate or invent claims to paint the other side in a worse light, even when the facts alone would suffice.
Over time, this erodes public discourse and leads to several harmful outcomes:
  • Honest, truth-seeking individuals—who carefully weigh evidence before deciding—often grow disillusioned. They withdraw from politics entirely: they stop voting, stop engaging in discussions, and disengage like someone leaving a toxic relationship. Yet these are precisely the people a healthy democracy needs most—those who prioritize facts and integrity over blind allegiance.
  • On the other side, many participants (across party lines) double down on misinformation. They amplify exaggerated praise for their own side or vicious attacks on the opposition. What begins as debate devolves into a kind of performative combat—mockery, ridicule, and tribal scoring—rather than a search for what is true or best for the country.
Eventually, this creates two entrenched camps that no longer value honesty or accountability. Each side refuses to criticize its own leaders' lies or poor decisions, fearing it would hand ammunition to the "enemy" or invite "I told you so" taunts. Loyalty becomes the highest virtue—higher than truth, integrity, or responsibility. When a politician from "their" side does something identical to what they condemned on the other side, excuses and new falsehoods quickly emerge to justify it. Anyone within the group who calls for accountability is often branded a traitor.

The result is extreme polarization: roughly half the country becomes so divided and entrenched that good ideas from one side are reflexively opposed, simply because of who proposed them. Bad decisions from one's own side are defended, no matter how clearly wrong they are.

In the end, this system rewards politicians who excel at deception rather than governance. They campaign on bold promises tailored to excite their base—promising great benefits for supporters and harm to opponents—but once elected, much of that rhetoric is set aside. They may occasionally throw symbolic gestures or "red meat" statements to keep supporters energized, but in practice, their actions often resemble what the opposing side might have done. The main difference lies in how they frame and sell it through partisan language.

Ultimately, a politics built on normalized lies leaves us with leaders skilled at manipulation rather than solutions, and a citizenry more focused on winning tribal battles than pursuing shared truth or progress. The long-term price is a weakened Republic where trust, accountability, and genuine problem-solving become increasingly rare.


Here is a chapter in a book that goes deeper into this subject. (pdf)

And an article from U of C Boulder
Lying is a way of life for democrats.
 
He was a racist and amoral hack, just normal for the times. He didn't 'end slavery', he just redefined it to suit himself. He made sure they weren't going to flee to the Northern states or the new territories. The later pols didn't do any better, they pretty much refused to enforce the 14th Amendment and forced most blacks into 'share cropping' after the war, just slavery under another name. By 1867 'Reconstruction' was dead as an agenda.

Meanwhile, in reality, he did end slavery. He lied in order to get elected and to do that.

So, the question stands, how do we as a society feel about that?
 
Meanwhile, in reality, he did end slavery. He lied in order to get elected and to do that.

So, the question stands, how do we as a society feel about that?

What should they feel? It was well over a hundred years ago. Do you wake up feeling bad about the Peloponnesian war, too?

He didn't end slavery; he merely changed the name. Smoke and mirrors. What lie, exactly? He never changed his views on blacks, and certainly wasn't interested in really freeing them. We know what he wanted by the way his military governors operated.
 
What should they feel? It was well over a hundred years ago. Do you wake up feeling bad about the Peloponnesian war, too?

This thread is about lying in politics.


It is often good when looking at such issues, to look AWAY from current issues, to avoid emotional biases.


As you said, lincoln's lie was over a century ago. Hopefully we can discuss it coldly and rationally...

I offered it to help discuss the thread topic seriously and rationally.


Do you have an opinon on the thread topic?
 
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He lied about not being a hard core abolistionist.


What is your opinion on the thread topic?

He was; most abolitionists were of the 'ship them all back to Africa' types. He never lied about that.

Already stated my opinion on the topic. You keep asking because you're at a loss to find a lie from Lincoln. He didn't start the war to free slaves, and said so.
 
He was; most abolitionists were of the 'ship them all back to Africa' types. He never lied about that.

HOw is that relevant to this thread?


Already stated my opinion on the topic. You keep asking because you're at a loss to find a lie from Lincoln. He didn't start the war to free slaves, and said so.

He said he wasn't starting a war to free the slaves. Yet his actions clearly show that that was a lie.

You can't admit that, because you support the freeing of the slaves.

This is a lie, that you support because you supported the policy, and you wanted it enacted, even if the nation as a whole, had to be LIED into it.

THAT IS RELEVANT to the thread topic.
 
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