My Objection to Religion

[Gunny]

how is that lame?

wasn't it the christian god who told jousha to kill everything "breathing" get real!!

No. It was the Jewish God. Joshua predated Christ/Christianity.

 

[glockmail]

No. It was the Jewish God. Joshua predated Christ/Christianity.

The meaning of the fullfillment of the Scriptures is somewhat lost on these atheists.

 

[Puddles]

1. Where is your/ his evidence that there is not a supernatural God?

Where is your proof/evidence that one does exist?

 

[manu1959]

Where is your proof/evidence that one does exist?

his proof and evidence lies in the same place as yours

 

[Puddles]

his proof and evidence lies in the same place as yours

I don't claim to say either way if god exists or not so I won't be providing any proof or evidence ...but for those who are insistent on preaching that god exists (or does NOT exist) to others, they should be backing it up with proof before making such a claim.

 

[Avatar4321]

Where is your proof/evidence that one does exist?

I am evidence God exists.

 

[glockmail]

Where is your proof/evidence that one does exist?

Look around you. Did the earth/ universe happen by chance?

 

[glockmail]

I am evidence God exists.

I thought that you were God.

 

[Eightball]

how is that lame?

wasn't it the christian god who told jousha to kill everything "breathing" get real!!

It's presumptuous to be presumptuous of God's reasons involving the above quote.

God made all people, therefore, God knows which human souls are salvageable, not me, you, or any other created being, just the Creator, who knows His creation.

There's a verse in the bible where God asks why we would question His wisdom. It is likened to the clay questioning the potter's creative intentions with the clay.

Free-will: A mystery, but human creation was in some way endowed with it. We can choose and refuse to honor the "Potter", and rant and rave and tell the "Potter" we don't want to be a vase, we want to be a tea pot, cause "we" think we know better about our life's best use/need/fullfillment than our very Creator blessed us with.

That last philosophy spawns, spurious belief systems, agnosticism, atheism, and downright rebellion, etc......,but all basically man-spawned alternatives to God's direction for our lives. Remember, I said, "direction", not forced enslavement.
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Every religious belief system in the world except for Christianity, believes that man should in some way should try to make himself perfect or that his/her endeavor to do so will endear himself/herself to his/her's Creator. This is the very crux that Got Adam and Eve booted out of the Garden. Rather than accept/believe God's directions for their lives, they chose to go-it their own way. They picked to partake in a Tree's fruit that at first glance seemed like Nirvana............In other words, they would get to determine how to live their life based on their knowledge of Good and Evil (As the Tree was the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil). By choosing the fruit of this tree, they, Adam and Eve, put the human race on a course of finding fullfillment in working at being good and not being evil in their own human strength.

It's funny and interesting how the "Law" that came eons later with Moses, actually wasn't any different than the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, in that man seemed to think that obeying the Law would be the way to reach Heaven, and be Godlike, or even God. The Law revealed what was Good and what was Evil, not unlike the Tree of the knowledge of Good, and Evil.

So now we have both gentiles and Jews all living out feeble attempts at appeasing God, via obedience of the Law, or in the case of Gentiles......just trying to live by the Golden rule...............which doesn't even exist in the bible, by the way.

Whether it's ten commandments or just trying to be "good", it still started with man and woman in the garden choosing to find meaning, and god-like immortality through knowing good and evil and of course choosing "good" over evil.

No where in the bible, has God encouraged mankind to obey the Law of Moses or the gentiles just working at the Golden Rule as a means to establish a relationship with Him/God. It was actually God's way of convincing man that he was totally inadequate to do so in his human abilities/strength/wisdom.

In fact, God proved through such notables as Abraham in the O.T. and Paul in the N.T. that a relationship with God is not by our strength, but by God's doing. Our part, both Jew and Gentile is to quit striving to be good to be acceptable to Him/God, and let God take control of our pitifully tired-out, mis-guided lives. Paul further says that Jesus came to earth to fullfill the Law...that we feeble, imperfect mankind could not. So Jesus became the propitiation for our total ineptitude/inability, to please God. It's that simple! With that last transaction between Jesus and mankind, now mankind had relinquished his knowledge of and strife at being good, and placed in Jesus's perfect life. God further gave each who believed in Jesus's attoning work, the Holy Spirit as a seal or guarantee of this new relationship based on man's full dependence in God.
*****
Joshua was told to wipe out the whole city, it's inhabitants, it's animals, everything. Seems that God determined that there was zero redeeming value in all of it's inhabitants..........That wasn't Joshua's call, but God's.

So the world blames God.........for all it's maladies.......God of the O.T. has been the focal target of atheists and agnostics alike, the rebellious, as well as the "indifferent" and the ill-informed too.

In all of this, man seems forget that the moniker, "Creator" means that this person/diety/originator of all existence, and matter, is the ultimate "knowledge" of all things both living and inanimate. God knows the very molecular structure of every being......and also their very thoughts; both past and future. He is not time-bound, but eternal both in the past, present, and future.......If there was ever a definition for this in eighballs vernacular, it would have to be "all-seeing/knowing".

Now with those attributes, who am I to question why city one was spared in the O.T. and city two was wiped off the face of the map to the point of only being ash?

Does this mean that this Creator is mean? Hardly, as His attributes are so fully revealed in the New Testament via the Son of God, Jesus. Jesus said emphatically, "seeing Me is seeing the Father, as I and the Father are one.". So Jesus's attributes are the Father's attributes. Get the point. God hasn't hidden his nature from us. We have avoided the truths by our self-denial, and avoidence of responsibility for our live's mis-direction, and folly.

Remember that Lot wanted to spare Sodom and Gomorrah, yet God said, "No". Lot bargained, saying if there were "x" number of believers in those cities, wouldn't you, "God" spare the city. God said that were not "x" nor "Y", nor "z" numbers of lover's of God in said cities. The only believers were Lot. So God said........Lot take your family and flee...........those cities and their inhabitants are "done". God knew the hearts and minds of every citizen of those cities.........they were evil to the core....and He knew that not one would turn to him. That's foreknowledge folks! Only one who is outside of "time" can claim that attribute. One one can see the beginning and end while us time bound creatures endure time at the present.

Only one knows how many hairs are on our heads, or knows your deepest thoughts, that you hide in denial from others. Only One knows the outcome of our lives.

Yet, mysteriously we have this "free will" thing. What kind of Creator would allow that? One that doesn't desire "automatons" for followers? One who desires willing creatures in relationship with Him? One that orchestrates life's trials around His creation in such a way to convince this creation (mankind) that independence from their Creator is not how they were originally designed anatomically, mentally, and emotionally. A Creator that desires/longs for an intimate relationship with mankind, yet doesn't force it? Presenting a Law during Moses's time that was unsurmountable to all, and only showed mankind how helpless we were to attain perfection/holiness/ for a relationship with God? A Law that was good in every way, yet condemmed mankind as it revealed mankinds total inability to maintain or keep it (Law). Yes, even the Law was a means to push mankind toward a condition of helpless, dependence in One (Jesus) who could fullfill the Law, and thus restore fallen mankind's relationship back with his Creator.
*****
No, God doesn't make mistakes.......We just misinterpret Him, and often willfully, in order to avoid facing the truth of our own lives, our own rebellious natures.
******

 

[Puddles]

Look around you. Did the earth/ universe happen by chance?

That's not proof or evidence that god exists.

 

[glockmail]

That's not proof or evidence that god exists.

You didn't answer the question.

 

[Puddles]

You didn't answer the question.

When you answer my question, then I'll answer yours.

 

[glockmail]

When you answer my question, then I'll answer yours.

I did answer yours, albeit making an assumption of your high intelligence by skipping the obvious and asking my question. But since you failed that test I will answer your question more directly: The existence of the earth and universe, since they could not be created out of nothing and surely did not happen by chance, is proof positive of a Creator, or God.

Now its your turn: Did the earth/ universe happen by chance?

 

[Puddles]

I did answer yours, albeit making an assumption of your high intelligence by skipping the obvious and asking my question. But since you failed that test I will answer your question more directly: The existence of the earth and universe, since they could not be created out of nothing and surely did not happen by chance, is proof positive of a Creator, or God.

Now its your turn: Did the earth/ universe happen by chance?

LOL...you're funny.

I think you are the one failing to get the point but let me simplify it for you. I asked for factual proof that god exists. You replied by asking me a question. That does NOT classify as you answering my question. Your question, does not substitute as a factual proof.

I don't claim to have any knowledge about a higher being, though I do believe there is probably one. However, you won't see me going around preaching that one does exist, since I have nothing to back it up with...get it now?

 

[manu1959]

Did the earth/ universe happen by chance?

yes ...... it was pure chance that god decided to create it

 

[glockmail]

LOL...you're funny.

I think you are the one failing to get the point but let me simplify it for you. I asked for factual proof that god exists. You replied by asking me a question. That does NOT classify as you answering my question. Your question, does not substitute as a factual proof.

I don't claim to have any knowledge about a higher being, though I do believe there is probably one. However, you won't see me going around preaching that one does exist, since I have nothing to back it up with...get it now?

Gee, should I listen to you who:
1. refuses to answer a simple question
2. ignores the fact that I answered yours, twice
3. is wishy-washy about the existence of a Creator
4. infers superiority of himself by belittling others who state the obvious as “preaching”.

Or, should I follow the teachings of my Lord and Savior who instructs me to shine my light on ignorance?

I prefer the later.

You still didn’t answer the question.

 

[glockmail]

yes ...... it was pure chance that god decided to create it

 

[Puddles]

Gee, should I listen to you who:
1. refuses to answer a simple question
2. ignores the fact that I answered yours, twice
3. is wishy-washy about the existence of a Creator
4. infers superiority of himself by belittling others who state the obvious as “preaching”.

Or, should I follow the teachings of my Lord and Savior who instructs me to shine my light on ignorance?

I prefer the later.

You still didn’t answer the question.

It's not really any of your concern how I feel about god or a creator.

Inferring superiority is you, claiming to have this enlightened knowledge that god exists when you have no proof.

No offence, but I'm not going to waste any more time replying to you since you obviously cannot grasp what's being said to you.

 

[glockmail]

It's not really any of your concern how I feel about god or a creator.

Inferring superiority is you, claiming to have this enlightened knowledge that god exists when you have no proof.

No offence, but I'm not going to waste any more time replying to you since you obviously cannot grasp what's being said to you.

That's great, man. the neg rep is because you refuse to answer a simple question after being prompted about 5 times now.

 

[Eightball]

It's not really any of your concern how I feel about god or a creator.

Inferring superiority is you, claiming to have this enlightened knowledge that god exists when you have no proof.

No offence, but I'm not going to waste any more time replying to you since you obviously cannot grasp what's being said to you.

Maybe if you might see it from this perspective. Christians are encouraged in scripture to let the "good news" or gospel be told to all. Not forced down anyone's mouth(which is impossible), but to at least tell all possible that they have a Saviour, and who provides total atonement for their sinful lives.

Now, you say, that it isn't any business except your's whom you believe or don't believe in. In one way your right. You can't be forceably made to believe or accept anything you don't want to. That is your "free will" as a human being. The "but" part, is that the Christian has received a command(The great commission) from Jesus Himself to tell the "good news" to the far reaches of the world........that includes forums, or anywhere that the Holy Spirit prompts that Christian to do so.

Granted, Christians can be overly pushy, and not stop with the old "your going to hell" mantra, and in essence can actually hurt or hinder the good news being spread. Christ didn't even preach that way.....He established bonafide friendships, and gradually He was trusted through His demonstrated life to the point that He could explain His mission to save mankind.

Christians have a bonafide concern for other's lives. That's a burden that they receive upon the time of their own conversion. It's not a result of brain-washing, but a bonafide burden for the eternal destiny of their fellow human beings.

I realize that it's a hard thing to understand why Christians wouldn't just be complacent with being happy that they have found Jesus, and salvation, and eternal life and then just leave others alone and go about their daily lives as good citizens of their nation and planet. What arises here is that when one is trully converted or Born Again or Born From Above as Jesus said to Nicodemus the Pharisee, there is an actual Spiritual change in the nature of that "said" person who was once lost and now can metaphorically "see". The "seeing" is a change from within, not brought on by brainwashing, but by a radical change of "nature" as a result of the bible explaining in the N.T. that a Christian is a new creature or new creation. This new nature entails the visitation and residency of the Spirit of Christ or the Holy Ghost, or Holy Spirit, as an enabler, and counselor with the soul of the new convert.

Now that I've attempted to show you the radical change that happens upon true Christian conversion to an individual, as Jesus explained, and also the many N.T. epistles have also explained, we have a new paradox.

This new person, "In Christ", Spiritually, receives Christ's life in-residency in the newly converted's soul, and with that we have a radical departure from old agendas, needs, priorities in this new person.

Now Christ's life in cooperation with the human spirit(will or our chooser) starts to have a passion and a longing to see all of mankind in God's fold, much as a shepherd seeks to find all of his lambs before night-fall, and fall to predatory dangers.

Christians don't manufacture a longing to tell others of the bible. Heck, if us Christians had our old self-centered way before conversion we would shrink back from telling anyone about Jesus and salvation. Why would we want to be called freaks, drunks, religions fanatics, zealots....etc. for a self-manufactured passion? That would be absolutely foolish and nearly self-destructive to us in many situations with other folks, i.e. strained friendships and relations.

No, this passion to tell others that there is a hope, and a total forgiveness, and eternal life for all who believe on Jesus's atoning work on the cross and His ressurrection is not a result of pride, arrogance, or any self-centered compulsion. It is an actual heart-felt desire to bring folks into a personal relationship with their Creator via Christ's bridge work between man and God's gulf of separation that started in the Garden.

Christians literally cry in prayer over folks they sometimes fleetingly meet on the street, or know from work, or relatives, parents, grand parents, spouses, siblings; their very own children......etc.. Not for personal gain or atta-boys from God, but because they are being "moved" in their inner man/woman by Christ's Spirit within their souls, to call mankind back to a "right" standing before their Creator; an eternal life in a safe secure, peaceful life, that bridges earthly life and continues through the veil of death. It's akin to having crawled into the life boat and wanting all around who are flailing in the icey waters to swim their way and get in with them. Nothing selfish in those motives........just compassion.