My distant ancestors.

[Man of Ethics]

"Liberté, égalité, fraternité" and the Soviet equivalent “Peace, Land, and Bread.” were nothing more than empty slogans meant to stir up the masses and offer them enough hope so they would unseat the existing power base for the leaders of the revolution.

We can agree to disagree. Girondins and Lenin and Trotsky really stood for Equality, Freedom, and Positive Rights. Jacobines and Stalinists turned Revolutions into Terror and Totalitarianism.

 

[fncceo]

We can agree to disagree. Girondins and Lenin and Trotsky really stood for Equality, Freedom, and Positive Rights. Jacobines and Stalinists turned Revolutions into Terror and Totalitarianism.

Stalin didn't come into power until 1924, 7 years AFTER the Bolshevik Revolution. In those 7 years, mass starvation -- depending on who is keeping track -- 1 to 10 million people starved to death after the entire economy collapsed in a frenzy of looting and killing that was the hallmark of The Bolshevik Revolution.

No matter how bad Stalin (and Napoleon before him) were ... they can't take all the blame for imposing harsh restrictions and totalitarianism after the violent revolutions, with no plan of what to do after there was nothing left to loot, left their respective countries in shambles and left a power vacuum.

By way of contrast, The American Revolution ended with our economy intact, people still in possession of their land and goods, and America was opening up trade with countries around the world that wasn't possible under British Rule. No dictators arose after the revolution because there was no power vacuum to fill.

 

[frigidweirdo]

About 3.5 million people have died under Stalin's Penal System -- 800,000 were executed, about 1.5 million died in GULAG, and 1.2 million died in exile.


Nazis murdered about 6 million Jews and 18 million other non-combatants.

Okay, and?

 

[frigidweirdo]

We can agree to disagree. Girondins and Lenin and Trotsky really stood for Equality, Freedom, and Positive Rights. Jacobines and Stalinists turned Revolutions into Terror and Totalitarianism.

Lenin didn't stand for anything like that.

 

[Man of Ethics]

Stalin didn't come into power until 1924, 7 years AFTER the Bolshevik Revolution. In those 7 years, mass starvation -- depending on who is keeping track -- 1 to 10 million people starved to death after the entire economy collapsed in a frenzy of looting and killing that was the hallmark of The Bolshevik Revolution.

Sadly that was a time of Civil War. All pre-Industrial societies were extremely poor and had regular food shortages. That was not a result of any punitive policy.

 

[Man of Ethics]

Okay, and?

About 3.5 million people have died under Stalin's Penal System -- 800,000 were executed, about 1.5 million died in GULAG, and 1.2 million died in exile. Nazis murdered about 6 million Jews and 18 million other non-combatants.

Nazis were much much worse then Communists. Joseph Stalin has great sins and great virtues. The sins are Repressions. The virtues are his roles in saving the World from Nazism.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Nazis were much much worse then Communists. Joseph Stalin has great sins and great virtues. The sins are Repressions. The virtues are his roles in saving the World from Nazism.

Well, Hitler and Stalin... a choice between what kind of poop you want to eat.
I'm sure that on any level you could argue which was "worse" between the two, but most people would prefer to not live under either.

 

[fncceo]

All pre-Industrial societies were extremely poor and had regular food shortages

Russia was far from a pre-industrial nation. By 1900, Russia was the world's largest producer of oil and was only slightly behind France in the production of oil, steel, coal, and cotton.

Russia had it's first electrical power utility in 1886 and by the end of the 19th Century, Russia had electrical and telephone utilities in all major cities.

The Bolshevik Revolution destroyed nearly all of Russia's existing industrial capability and, what is worse, killed or drove away those educated men that could actually make it work.

 

[fncceo]

Nazis were much much worse then Communists.

Two sides of the same authoritarian coin.

 

[Man of Ethics]

Two sides of the same authoritarian coin.

Nazis were much worse then Communists. Communists never viewed any ethnicity or birth group as innately inferior.

 

[Man of Ethics]

Compared to Hitler, Joseph Stalin was very mild.

Compared to Czar Nicholas II, Joseph Stalin was a monster. In Russia, 1913, there was much much more Freedom then in USSR 1937.