My distant ancestors.

[Man of Ethics]

I have briefly seen two of my great-grandmothers in my childhood. None of my great-great-grandparents were alive when I was born. Even though I do not know my great-grandparents and earlier generations personally, I am proud of the ideals they have set. Paradoxically, different generations had different ideals and values.


All of my great-great-grandparents and my grandfather's parents were strictly observant Jews. My grandfather's grandfather knew Torah by heart. He studied Talmud many hours each day and scrupulously kept all Commandments of the Torah. The generation of my great-great-grandparents continued the tradition of millennia of deeply observant and G-d fearing Jews.


One thing which I know almost certainly is that there was a significant generational rift between the older generations and the younger generation in early XXth Century. In 1917, my great-grandparents were in their 20-s. They were devoted to the new Communist ideals of Fairness, Freedom, and Equality. My great-grandmothers worked for Soviet Russia and my great-grandfathers fought for Soviet Russia in the Civil War.


Lenin and Trotsky started to build a society based on Freedom, Equality, and Positive Rights. In 1917, many working families in St. Petersburg, Moscow, and other Russian cities lived in abject poverty and most had less then one room per family. Rich families had multiroom apartments. In 1918, Bolsheviks confiscated most property of rich people. Now, each working family had a room in an apartment formerly belonging to nobles. In 1920, the rest of rich people's property was confiscated.


In 1922, Communists won the Civil War. Lenin and Trotsky started rebuilding Soviet Russia. They started building a New Society. This Society was based not only on Freedom and Equality, but also on Positive Rights -- the right to employment, the right to food, shelter, and medical care. Sadly in 1924, Vladimir Lenin died. By late 1920s, Leon Trotsky lost all power to Joseph Stalin and was exiled from USSR.


The decade of 1930s was the decade of quiet despair and disappointment for my great-grandparents, millions of other Jews, and tens of millions of Classical Liberals. Jews were pushed out of the ruling elite. Freedom was gone. Repressions escalated and reached their peak in 1937.

 

[Man of Ethics]

Many but not all issues encountered by the modern generation have been encountered by the generation of my great-grandparents. I am very careful not to put my parents into the risk of COVID. Between 1918 and 1920, all four of my great-grandmothers took extreme care to shield their parents from the terrible flue pandemic. My great-grandfathers were fighting in Russian Civil War. Former Russian nobles had to pay Reparations to descendants of serfs.


In 2022, many Classical Liberals are horrified by the Cancel Culture. During 1930s, Classical Liberals had the same disappointment due to Repressions. During 1794, old Girondins revolutionaries had the same disappointment due to Reign of Terror.

 

[luiza]

In those days the Elite invented and used Marxism and then Communism as their main narrative to ferment Chaos.

Since then , the narrative moved to Socialism and then more recently from the failed Warming story to vacuous Climate Change plus separately Transhumanism.

All are based on Chaos -- the foundation stones for ease of Control resulting from anxiety , stress , panic and hysteria .

Standard mind control text book material .

 

[frigidweirdo]

In 1922, Communists won the Civil War. Lenin and Trotsky started rebuilding Soviet Russia. They started building a New Society. This Society was based not only on Freedom and Equality, but also on Positive Rights -- the right to employment, the right to food, shelter, and medical care. Sadly in 1924, Vladimir Lenin died. By late 1920s, Leon Trotsky lost all power to Joseph Stalin and was exiled from USSR.


The decade of 1930s was the decade of quiet despair and disappointment for my great-grandparents, millions of other Jews, and tens of millions of Classical Liberals. Jews were pushed out of the ruling elite. Freedom was gone. Repressions escalated and reached their peak in 1937.

Thing with the USSR was that any "freedom" gained would probably have been due to the Soviet state not having the apparatus in place to prevent people from getting this freedom. Lenin certainly was not a freedom lover, Lenin didn't like workers, even though he CLAIMED to be fighting for them.
Literally Lenin was a studious person and he liked to study Communism and then tell everyone what he thought about it, and anyone who disagreed with him, he'd put all his efforts into proving he was right.
By the time he got into power he realized he was massively wrong about most of what he'd said before, and then ended up changing. He certainly was prone to repressing people too. Stalin was on another level, far more realistic, but still, he liked his power and would keep it the same as Lenin had done.

 

[fncceo]

Lenin and Trotsky started to build a society based on Freedom, Equality, and Positive Rights. In 1917, many working families in St. Petersburg, Moscow, and other Russian cities lived in abject poverty and most had less then one room per family. Rich families had multiroom apartments. In 1918, Bolsheviks confiscated most property of rich people. Now, each working family had a room in an apartment formerly belonging to nobles. In 1920, the rest of rich people's property was confiscated.

Interesting that you should equate confiscation, the sanctioned theft of personal property with freedom, equality, or rights.

The downside of "eating the rich" is that, when you've finished taking everything away from those evil rich folks, you still don't have enough to go around. The sad truth is, if you give someone a room, they'll start asking why you didn't give them a room with a view. If you give them a chair, they'll want a sofa. If you give them a bag of rice, they'll hunger for steak. You cannot supply people's unlimited desires by stealing from a limited resource. The only way to have enough wealth to spread it to make more ... something rich people are very good at doing.


A Jewish grandmother was walking along the beach with her grandson when, suddenly, without warning, a huge wave crashed on the beach, sweeping the grandson out to sea. The bubbe turned her face to heaven and cried, "Please, Dear Lord, save the life of my grandson!".

Just as suddenly, another giant wave, deposited the boy back on the beach, completely unharmed.

The bubbe again turned her face to heaven and said, "He had a hat".

 

[1srelluc]

My Great Grandfather killed two turkeys with one shot......Or so he said.

 

[ReinyDays]

This is true today ... my parents never understood my American Dream ... I never expected to understand my children's American Dream ... isn't this supposed to change every generation? ...

My great-great-grandfather was an absolute pacifist ... so the Tzars of Russia kicked him and the rest of the Mennonites out ... they landed in Kansas ... I'm sorry, that's not my American Dream ...

 

[Confederate Soldier]

On of my ancestor cousins fought and killed communists, before he himself was killed.

 

[Man of Ethics]

Thing with the USSR was that any "freedom" gained would probably have been due to the Soviet state not having the apparatus in place to prevent people from getting this freedom.

After the Civil War and until late 1920s, there was considerable Freedom in USSR. Mass Repressions started in 1930s.

Even Stalin's Rule had an order of magnitude less people killed then Nazis.

 

[Man of Ethics]

Interesting that you should equate confiscation, the sanctioned theft of personal property with freedom, equality, or rights.

The downside of "eating the rich" is that, when you've finished taking everything away from those evil rich folks, you still don't have enough to go around. The sad truth is, if you give someone a room, they'll start asking why you didn't give them a room with a view. If you give them a chair, they'll want a sofa. If you give them a bag of rice, they'll hunger for steak. You cannot supply people's unlimited desires by stealing from a limited resource. The only way to have enough wealth to spread it to make more ... something rich people are very good at doing.

Sadly, in pre-Industrial societies, resources were very limited. Thus they had to be redistributed.

 

[fncceo]

Sadly, in pre-Industrial societies, resources were very limited. Thus they had to be redistributed.

There is no more reason to confiscate a man's possessions by force than there is to confiscate his labor or liberty by force.

Looting and slavery are two sides of the same coin.

 

[Man of Ethics]

There is no more reason to confiscate a man's possessions by force than there is to confiscate his labor or liberty by force.

Looting and slavery are two sides of the same coin.

Most nobles have acquired their wealth by exploitation of working classes. In 1918 that was the case 100%. Also, prior to 1861, half of all peasants were serfs.

 

[Man of Ethics]

Classical Liberals really stand for Freedom, Equality, and Positive Rights. Totalitarian Left stands for much worse tyranny then Conservatives.

Classical Liberals are/were: moderate Girondists of the French Revolution, Lenin and Trotsky, 1970s Liberals.

Totalitarian Leftists were/are: Jacobins of French Revolution who brought the Reign of Terror, Stalinists of 1930s who brought the Purges, Modern Progressives.

 

[fncceo]

Most nobles have acquired their wealth by exploitation of working classes.

That depends on what you mean by exploitation. If a man takes land, property, specie, or labor from another because of his self-appointed position -- be he politician or priest -- he is guilty of theft and what he has taken should be returned directly to from whom he has taken it (not to society at large).

But, if a man hires another man to do a job and the rate of that labor is agreed upon freely by both parties, no one can dare call that exploitation.

 

[Man of Ethics]

That depends on what you mean by exploitation. If a man takes land, property, specie, or labor from another because of his self-appointed position -- be he politician or priest -- he is guilty of theft and what he has taken should be returned directly to from whom he has taken it (not to society at large).

But, if a man hires another man to do a job and the rate of that labor is agreed upon freely by both parties, no one can dare call that exploitation.

Most noble families who were rich in 1918 obtained a lot of wealth prior to 1861 due to serf labor.

 

[fncceo]

Classical Liberals really stand for Freedom, Equality, and Positive Rights. Totalitarian Left stands for much worse tyranny then Conservatives.

Classical Liberals are/were: moderate Girondists of the French Revolution, Lenin and Trotsky, 1970s Liberals.

Totalitarian Leftists were/are: Jacobins of French Revolution who brought the Reign of Terror, Stalinists of 1930s who brought the Purges, Modern Progressives.

The American Revolution, wasn't an economic revolution ... most of the leaders of that revolution revolted not because they were downtrodden, many of them were the richest men in the colonies. The American Revolution sought to establish an independent political identity for a people who, several thousand miles from England and not receiving any benefit of being ruled by The Crown felt capable of ruling themselves. The target of their revolution was far away and mostly symbolic.

The French and Bolshevik Revolutions were primarily economic, stirred on by class hatred. The targets of their hatred were there at hand and when they got the opportunity, they poured out that hatred in the most violent ways possible, destroying the economic bases of their own countries in a blind rampage of revenge for what they believed were past wrongs.

 

[frigidweirdo]

After the Civil War and until late 1920s, there was considerable Freedom in USSR. Mass Repressions started in 1930s.

Even Stalin's Rule had an order of magnitude less people killed then Nazis.

What do you mean by "Freedom" here? "Freedom" being a lack of mass repression?
Yes, Stalin was particularly bad, but Lenin would do whatever it took to keep the revolution, including locking people up.
I guess the difference was that Stalin was "paranoid", he'd lock people up if he suspected they could be a threat, whereas Lenin went after those that were a threat.

Stalin had much more time to do his business than Hitler. Stalin was running the country around 1923 to when he died, like 30 years. Hitler had 12.

 

[Man of Ethics]

The French and Bolshevik Revolutions were primarily economic, stirred on by class hatred. The targets of their hatred were there at hand and when they got the opportunity, they poured out that hatred in the most violent ways possible, destroying the economic bases of their own countries in a blind rampage of revenge for what they believed were past wrongs.

I disagree. To a great extent both Girondins and Lenin and Trotsky worked to built societies based on Freedom, Equality, and Positive Rights.

Jacobines and Stalinists respectively brought Totalitarianism.

 

[fncceo]

To a great extent both Girondins and Lenin and Trotsky worked to built societies based on Freedom, Equality, and Positive Rights.

You're wrong. Those revolutions were built on class hatred so that a well-positioned few could loot their countries six ways till Sunday and throw some leftovers to the masses who did their dirty work.

"Liberté, égalité, fraternité" and the Soviet equivalent “Peace, Land, and Bread.” were nothing more than empty slogans meant to stir up the masses and offer them enough hope so they would unseat the existing power base for the leaders of the revolution.

No revolution based on hatred, looting, and destruction will provide anything more than anarchy and misery.

 

[Man of Ethics]

Stalin had much more time to do his business than Hitler. Stalin was running the country around 1923 to when he died, like 30 years. Hitler had 12.

About 3.5 million people have died under Stalin's Penal System -- 800,000 were executed, about 1.5 million died in GULAG, and 1.2 million died in exile.


Nazis murdered about 6 million Jews and 18 million other non-combatants.