Zone1 My departure from Catholicism (very long OP)

[1miseryindex]

So let's have a little reality check. The Catholic Church has been in existence (as we conceive it) for about two thousand years. The Church has CONSTANTLY sought to remain faithful to the teachings of Christ and the guidance of the "founding fathers" [to coin a phrase]. It recognizes not only the Scriptures themselves, but also traditions that originated with the Apostles and have carried forward. It employs an army of linguists, theologians, and scientists around the world who strive to ensure that "we" are understanding everything correctly, even to correcting translations of biblical texts as new information comes to light.

The Church has done a lot of awful things in its history, but one is only appalled at these acts in a vacuum, as HUMANS have done a lot of awful things, in the name of religious dogma and other inexplicable principles. The Church is a human organization, like it or not. But it has always strived to "get it right," and it continues to do so today.

For illustration, there is TREMENDOUS global pressure on the Vatical (the Church) to accept homosexuals and other sexual irregulars, to condone abortion in some circumstances, to embrace divorce and remarriage as endemic to the human condition, but it declines to do these things, because the Scriptures and Traditions are clear, in the opposite direction of the public pressure.

K9Buck, you have embraced the folly of Protestantism. You believe that you can read the Book and decide for yourself what it means. In effect, you say, "No, I'm smarter than your armies of theologians and hundreds of years of study."

Based on what? Conceit?

Your thinking is literally analogous to someone with a telescope, spending 30 years looking up into the sky and coming to the conclusion that all of what astronomers have figured out for the past thousands of years is wrong, because that is not what your scope sightings tell you.

You are a fool. You have a right to be a fool, but make no mistake about it. There is only one true Christian Church, and you have rejected it out of nothing but personal arrogance.

P.S. I admit that I did not go through the OP in detail. I have better things to do with my time, and you don't have to test every apple in the barrel to conclude that it is a barrel of rotten apples.

LOL at your candor! I love it!

I do think you are a little hard on the dude by calling him conceited and a fool. Jesus said not to call anyone a fool, so I'm not criticizing, just saying...

BUt other than that, I totally agree w/ this response. It's ironic as hell: people criticizing the RCC 4 having a human head, the pope, and yet they are their own popes who make up Christianity as they go. Jesus knew it would come to this.

And you know, I was o/side the RCC for a brief time recently and it was awful. I was outside of it for many reasons that I don't want to discuss at this time but one reason was that I was taken by the logic of the Sedevacantists, who say the Chair of Peter is vacant. I still believe (know) that it is indeed vacant, but that does not mean, as I was beginning to think, that Jesus has abandoned His Church. That is a lie from the devil, the one the devil loves the most, IMO. Get people out of CHrist's true Church, he schemes.

And he is winning.

 

[1miseryindex]

Matthew 5:22
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother[a] will be liable to judgment; whoever insults[b] his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell[c] of fire.

You quote many scriptures, but I will bet money you do NOT quote the Scriptures that "sound Catholic"

Like "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

Faith without works is dead" James 2:4

and then there's the one about how in the End, we will be judged by how we treated "the least of Christ's people" .. Mt 25:31. A lot of health=wealth=and=prosperity folks like Joel Olsteen AVOID such passages like the plague. i'm not saying he never mentions them in in his sermons. How would I know? I don't pay attn to him, but people who believe Jesus and his Words are just another self-help guide to a better life on Planet Earth... they are in a for a SHOCK when they meet Him after death.

 

[1miseryindex]

People lined up, flocked to Jesus. By your definition, this means Jesus was "of the world". Are you even aware of how involved the Catholic Church is involved and helping the poor and destitute of this world?

They used to be and some Catholic groups still are. But Francis... Oh my!

he is not even Catholic. "You will know them by their fruits"

 

[1miseryindex]

Yea, you don't need to read another's essay to determine that it's erroneous. Thanks for the laugh!

How ironic. You yourself do not want to read Catholic Church history or teachings and yet you think you have the wherewithall intellectually and spiritually to debunk everything Catholic!

 

[1miseryindex]

I'm an ex-Catholic. Why do you believe that I am insincere? Is it because I follow the teachings of Jesus and his apostles instead of the teachings of the catechism?

How erroneous, to say that the Catechism (speaking of the OLD one, not the new which I do not trust) has nothing to do with the teachings of Christ!

And no one reading the Bible without the help of the Catholic clergy who have spent their lives studying it knows what he's talking about.

The RCC is 2000+ years old and you're going to come here and tell us or imply to us that you know enough to ditch it!

Well, one does not ditch Christ's Church w/o consequences. So I worry for you.

 

[1miseryindex]

When I was outside the Catholic Church, my life deteriorated to the point it was seemingly unsalvagable. It was the Catholic Church that got me on that pathway to God Jesus speaks of. I was one lost person until I went back to the Catholic Church.

So I just don't get this "I left the Catholic Church because it is not Christian" bs

don't get it at all

(written by someone who has studied the Faith, read the entire Bible and has studied Church history AND spent time in the Real Presence of Christ, the most important thing of all)

 

[Meriweather]

So I just don't get this "I left the Catholic Church because it is not Christian"

No one needs an excuse to leave any religion or faith, yet so many seem to feel they must provide excuses for themselves.

"I left my former religion because this other religion has drawn me closer to God." When this is the case, a person feels no need to bash their former religion because they are singing the praises of how the other religion as drawn them closer to God.

When one begins bashing a former religion, there seems to be some personal animosity/resentment also in play by a person/people associated with that particular faith.

The greater tragedy is when a person of faith uses the Word of God to bash other faiths. The Word of God is holy, and should not be used to be disparaging against any person/people of faith.

 

[Hossfly]

The Pope fires a Tyler, Texas Bishop for disagreeing with the Pope's current path. Now this:



Pope Francis celebrated the World Day for the Poor this past weekend in the Vatican by hosting transgender prostitutes.

According to an Associated Press article, these individuals have become regular attendees of the Vatican as Pope Francis works to create acceptance and understanding of their lifestyle among the public.


“Before, the church was closed to us. They didn’t see us as normal people, they saw us as the devil,” said Andrea Paola Torres Lopez, a transgender “woman” from Colombia who uses the alias Consuelo. “Then Pope Francis arrived and the doors of the church opened for us.”

“This norm from Pope Francis brings me closer to finding that absolute serenity,” Carla Segovia, a 46-year-old transgender prostitute from Argentina.

Pope Francis Parties with Transgender Prostitutes in the Vatican to Commemorate ‘World Day of the Poor’ - Patriot Barbie

Pope Francis celebrated the World Day for the Poor this past weekend in the Vatican by hosting transgender prostitutes. According to an Associated Press article, these individuals have become regular attendees of the Vatican as Pope Francis works to create acceptance and understanding of their...

patriotbarbie.com

 

[gtopa1]

Long?

Please

I am not going to read this and I will tell you why. And I will do so in less than 50,000 words. I am not reading it because I have found the TRUE Church. The reason people leave it, and I know you will disagree, but maybe not write about it above.. is usually because they have defied some fundamental teaching of the Church. A lot of people leave because they wanted to get re-married, to someone other than their true spouse. But the Church wouldn't give an annulment (aka divorce but in the CC you can't divorce AND re-marry if you were validly married). And so people hate the Church for denying them "the one they love" and other such reasons. Well, the Church is either from Christ or it is not. Jesus was either against divorce/re-marriage or He wasn't. So do we choose Christ's Church or do we just go our own way?

Jesus said (paraphrase) that most people go their own way (Mt 7:21 and others). Society is showing us that as well, that people are going their own way. Most people are ditching Jesus and not going to ANY church or purported church at all. Church attendance these days is abysmal

Satan laughs his ass off

I sorta agree with what you're saying but even though I am divorced and remarried (looked into annulment; ex wouldn't agree) there is no way i would give up my faith because of that. Yes; I KNOW the Church teaching on that and I also know what mortal sin is. Just because I need more saving than most does not mean I give up my faith!!

I think most people leave because they don't understand their faith in the first place; plus they want to be "free" of the constraints as you say.

Greg

 

[gtopa1]

The Pope fires a Tyler, Texas Bishop for disagreeing with the Pope's current path. Now this:



Pope Francis celebrated the World Day for the Poor this past weekend in the Vatican by hosting transgender prostitutes.

According to an Associated Press article, these individuals have become regular attendees of the Vatican as Pope Francis works to create acceptance and understanding of their lifestyle among the public.


“Before, the church was closed to us. They didn’t see us as normal people, they saw us as the devil,” said Andrea Paola Torres Lopez, a transgender “woman” from Colombia who uses the alias Consuelo. “Then Pope Francis arrived and the doors of the church opened for us.”

“This norm from Pope Francis brings me closer to finding that absolute serenity,” Carla Segovia, a 46-year-old transgender prostitute from Argentina.

Pope Francis Parties with Transgender Prostitutes in the Vatican to Commemorate ‘World Day of the Poor’ - Patriot Barbie

Pope Francis celebrated the World Day for the Poor this past weekend in the Vatican by hosting transgender prostitutes. According to an Associated Press article, these individuals have become regular attendees of the Vatican as Pope Francis works to create acceptance and understanding of their...

patriotbarbie.com

I never said Popes can't be idiots. But to be fair; transgender usually are incapable of being promiscuous I'm told. They really are sad and mad rather than evil of themselves. Now the fanatics who push the "trans agenda"; frankly they're EVIL!!

(Just re-read your post: trans hookers?? What the hell is the idiot thinking?? OK; they're the LEAST of the LEAST and still the Church has a mission to them but bloody hell???)

Greg

 

[gtopa1]

They used to be and some Catholic groups still are. But Francis... Oh my!

he is not even Catholic. "You will know them by their fruits"

Nah; he's RC, but off on a tangent that frankly is bonkers. I have a sheila friend who is into "all the causes" because at the basis of her thinking is LOVE!! I can't blame her for loving "the least" but she's frankly misguided...as her hubby and I agree.



Greg

 

[gtopa1]

If you want to argue theology I suggest you first read the Bible.

Hey Buck. What you decided for you is no worries as far as I am concerned, but what helps me to understand my fait (as it is) are several things: reading the Bible WITH GUIDANCE, seeking out the discussions of Thomas Aquinas and thirdly reading GK Chesterton.

Now who is to give the guidance? Usually the Catechism is a good start (I know; you've been there) but after that TA and GK. At the very least you'll get some "real" RC views. Also the Inquisition does answer questions, or as they're called now the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. I haven't used them in years but in the past they've answered questions of Faith, Dogma and stuff OK.

God's speed on your journey.

Greg

​

 

[surada]

I just said that I am...
NON-DENOMINATIONAL.

So. Do you go to any church at all?

 

[JustAGuy1]

How erroneous, to say that the Catechism (speaking of the OLD one, not the new which I do not trust) has nothing to do with the teachings of Christ!

And no one reading the Bible without the help of the Catholic clergy who have spent their lives studying it knows what he's talking about.

The RCC is 2000+ years old and you're going to come here and tell us or imply to us that you know enough to ditch it!

Well, one does not ditch Christ's Church w/o consequences. So I worry for you.

And no one reading the Bible without the help of the Catholic clergy who have spent their lives studying it knows what he's talking about.

Cultist to your core.

 

[JustAGuy1]

Your saying that the RCC is not the One Church is heresy.

So it might be good 4 u to correct your own heresy b4 confronting that of others.

You're on your way to hell kid, there is nothing "Christian" about you.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

If you think there is no evil in Protestant "churches"... what a joke

I don't think thats what he said.

The CHURCH is not an organization, as you desperately want to believe, but the Body of Believers in whom dwells the Holy Spirit.

"If any man has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His."

Your membership in any organization does not make you Christian.

The Catholic Church is full of "tradition," but UNBIBLICAL TRADITION.

 

[Meriweather]

The Catholic Church is full of "tradition," but UNBIBLICAL TRADITION.

It's Apostolic Tradition. Were the Apostles and early Christians "ubiblical"?

 

[JustAGuy1]

No one needs an excuse to leave any religion or faith, yet so many seem to feel they must provide excuses for themselves.

"I left my former religion because this other religion has drawn me closer to God." When this is the case, a person feels no need to bash their former religion because they are singing the praises of how the other religion as drawn them closer to God.

When one begins bashing a former religion, there seems to be some personal animosity/resentment also in play by a person/people associated with that particular faith.

The greater tragedy is when a person of faith uses the Word of God to bash other faiths. The Word of God is holy, and should not be used to be disparaging against any person/people of faith.

Which is exactly what Misery/nomadic5 is doing.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

It's Apostolic Tradition. Were the Apostles and early Christians "ubiblical"?

Catholic Church doesn't follow the traditions of the Jerusalem Church

 

[JustAGuy1]

Wow you put a lot of time and work into that. I hope you saved a copy and are able to use it elsewhere other than just here at USMB.

The Pope's dictates were never considered 'infallible' until the First Vatican Council convened and led by Pope Pius IX in the mid 19th Century. And it was by such Papal declarations over the millennia that such the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church developed. It was the decree of Emperor Constantine in the Fourth Century who for purely political purposes enlisted the organizational skills of the church that gave the church its power and allowed it to become such a dominating force in the Roman Empire. though it wouldn't be called the ROMAN Catholic Church until the 16th Century.

The 16th Century was the Reformation that pulled people out of the RCC and began spreading the church into thousands of different denominational groups and carried it into most of the world.

But don't be too hard on the RCC. No church denomination or independent congregation has ever been organized that did not intend to represent the closest thing to the one true church it could achieve. And every single one of them has come up with human engineered culture, emphasis, doctrine, rules, policy that is sometimes supportable by scripture, sometimes not. The Church is intended to be God's people on Earth, but because humankind is fallible, willful, and sometimes very stubborn, we now have an amazing 45,000 different Christian denominations around the world, over 200 in the USA alone.

So my advice to anyone seeking the 'one true Church' is that it doesn't exist. And yet the Church is the foundation for all that is good, ethical, provides a sense of right and wrong, like nothing else can do. Every believer is part of the Church and that makes the Church a vessel of God. The best we can do is find a Church denomination/congregation that we sense is right for us and accept it as the imperfect vessel that it will invariably be just as each of us is an imperfect vessel but still capable of doing great good.

"So my advice to anyone seeking the 'one true Church' is that it doesn't exist."

Well it does exist, just not in the exclusive manner that is being bandied about in here.