MW advocates - what are the downsides of minimum wage?

[Asclepias]

When the $15 per hour was first suggested McDonalds started putting kiosks in the store. Ordering at the counter won't bring your food any faster. Drive thru customers get first priority, then kiosk orders and finally the cold hamburger order. Then, Walmart and grocery chains started Home Delivery. People who wonder why a big store like Walmart and Target have 18 cash registers have only 2 or 3 open and a dozen self-checkout stations can thank the minimum wage crusaders.

Now youre being an idiot and blaming MW on technology and business owner greed. That was going to happen anyway. The first priority of a business is to pay its shareholders a large dividend.

If you wouldn't insult people all the time you would get replies.

I'm sorry. I just dont know why you are pretending companies are automating due to MW issues.

 

[Asclepias]

It only makes no sense if you have a simple minded view of how the MW should be set for each state. I didnt say MW should be equal across the board. I said the MW for each state should be set at a national level.

Again, it makes no sense to think that some beaurocrat in DC has a better idea what it costs to live in Miss. than the people who live there. In addition, a state minimum wage law would effect every job in that state, but a national minimum wage law would only effect jobs in companies that engage in interstate commerce. Since minimum wage laws only effect the lowest skilled worker, a national minimum wage law would not apply to most of the lowest paid workers.

Not sure what you mean. Are you saying that if there was a national law that all business in state X had to pay X amount per hour then businesses that dont engage in interstate commerce wouldnt have to obey that law?

Yes, the federal government has no jurisdiction over companies that don't engage in interstate commerce, but a state law would apply to all companies.

Show me the proof of this. If this is true then why all the whining about federally set MWs?

How can you have an opinion on the matter and not know the federal government only has jurisdiction under the commerce clause? The complaints about a national minimum wage law are about it being nothing more than a meaningless political ploy. The Democrats are only talking about it because they have no meaningful proposals on any important issues, just as Hillary had no meaningful proposals on any important issue in 2016.

You can have an opinion on anything. There is no law that says you have to be fully aware of all the issues surrounding the specific subject. Now can you provide proof of your claim?

 

[danielpalos]

When the $15 per hour was first suggested McDonalds started putting kiosks in the store. Ordering at the counter won't bring your food any faster. Drive thru customers get first priority, then kiosk orders and finally the cold hamburger order. Then, Walmart and grocery chains started Home Delivery. People who wonder why a big store like Walmart and Target have 18 cash registers have only 2 or 3 open and a dozen self-checkout stations can thank the minimum wage crusaders.

Now youre being an idiot and blaming MW on technology and business owner greed. That was going to happen anyway. The first priority of a business is to pay its shareholders a large dividend.

If you wouldn't insult people all the time you would get replies.

I'm sorry. I just dont know why you are pretending companies are automating due to MW issues.

doesn't matter; left wing policy must be to lose low wage jobs that don't clear the cost of social services to lower public sector costs. there is no reason to subsidize Cheap labor in our First World economy.

 

[dblack]

There are no downsides to a minimum wage law.

Getting back to the topic, if there are no downsides to minimum wage, why wouldn't you want to raise to the point where we're all wealthy? I really don't get your mindset here.

 

[Asclepias]

When the $15 per hour was first suggested McDonalds started putting kiosks in the store. Ordering at the counter won't bring your food any faster. Drive thru customers get first priority, then kiosk orders and finally the cold hamburger order. Then, Walmart and grocery chains started Home Delivery. People who wonder why a big store like Walmart and Target have 18 cash registers have only 2 or 3 open and a dozen self-checkout stations can thank the minimum wage crusaders.

Now youre being an idiot and blaming MW on technology and business owner greed. That was going to happen anyway. The first priority of a business is to pay its shareholders a large dividend.

If you wouldn't insult people all the time you would get replies.

I'm sorry. I just dont know why you are pretending companies are automating due to MW issues.

doesn't matter; left wing policy must be to lose low wage jobs that don't clear the cost of social services to lower public sector costs. there is no reason to subsidize Cheap labor in our First World economy.

Interesting take. If we get dont raise MW to subsidize cheap labor or get rid of low wage jobs what happens to the people that previously filled that niche?

 

[Asclepias]

There are no downsides to a minimum wage law.

Getting back to the topic, if there are no downsides to minimum wage, why wouldn't you want to raise to the point where we're all wealthy? I really don't get your mindset here.

I addressed that in my first response. Please read it.

 

[dblack]

There are no downsides to a minimum wage law.

Getting back to the topic, if there are no downsides to minimum wage, why wouldn't you want to raise to the point where we're all wealthy? I really don't get your mindset here.

I addressed that in my first response. Please read it.

I did. Twice. You didn't answer the question. I've found precious few MW advocates who will. Maybe one or two in thirty years of debating the issue.

 

[Asclepias]

There are no downsides to a minimum wage law.

Getting back to the topic, if there are no downsides to minimum wage, why wouldn't you want to raise to the point where we're all wealthy? I really don't get your mindset here.

I addressed that in my first response. Please read it.

I did. Twice. You didn't answer the question. I've found precious few MW advocates who will. Maybe one or two in thirty years of debating the issue.

I did answer the question. Please explain what is confusing to you.

"What you perceive as a downside is a knowledge that you must start somewhere and typically thats at the bottom. People that start at the bottom should expect a bottom salary that pays the basic bills. It shouldnt pay for your new Bentley. Hence you shouldnt be making $200 per hour."

 

[danielpalos]

When the $15 per hour was first suggested McDonalds started putting kiosks in the store. Ordering at the counter won't bring your food any faster. Drive thru customers get first priority, then kiosk orders and finally the cold hamburger order. Then, Walmart and grocery chains started Home Delivery. People who wonder why a big store like Walmart and Target have 18 cash registers have only 2 or 3 open and a dozen self-checkout stations can thank the minimum wage crusaders.

Now youre being an idiot and blaming MW on technology and business owner greed. That was going to happen anyway. The first priority of a business is to pay its shareholders a large dividend.

If you wouldn't insult people all the time you would get replies.

I'm sorry. I just dont know why you are pretending companies are automating due to MW issues.

doesn't matter; left wing policy must be to lose low wage jobs that don't clear the cost of social services to lower public sector costs. there is no reason to subsidize Cheap labor in our First World economy.

Interesting take. If we get dont raise MW to subsidize cheap labor or get rid of low wage jobs what happens to the people that previously filled that niche?

can you rephrase the question?

higher paid labor pays more in taxes and creates more in demand.

 

[dblack]

"What you perceive as a downside is a knowledge that you must start somewhere and typically thats at the bottom. People that start at the bottom should expect a bottom salary that pays the basic bills. It shouldnt pay for your new Bentley. Hence you shouldnt be making $200 per hour."

You're just stating an opinion, not justifying it in any way. Why is it a problem for people to start out rich? Is it a moral thing? Or is there some practical reason you think there should be rich and poor?

 

[Asclepias]

"What you perceive as a downside is a knowledge that you must start somewhere and typically thats at the bottom. People that start at the bottom should expect a bottom salary that pays the basic bills. It shouldnt pay for your new Bentley. Hence you shouldnt be making $200 per hour."

Your just stating an opinion, not justifying it in any way. Why is it a problem for people to start out rich? Is it a moral thing? Or is there some practical reason you think there should be rich and poor?

You didnt ask for a justification nor does it need to be justified. No one starts out rich unless they inherit it.

 

[Hossfly]

When the $15 per hour was first suggested McDonalds started putting kiosks in the store. Ordering at the counter won't bring your food any faster. Drive thru customers get first priority, then kiosk orders and finally the cold hamburger order. Then, Walmart and grocery chains started Home Delivery. People who wonder why a big store like Walmart and Target have 18 cash registers have only 2 or 3 open and a dozen self-checkout stations can thank the minimum wage crusaders.

Now youre being an idiot and blaming MW on technology and business owner greed. That was going to happen anyway. The first priority of a business is to pay its shareholders a large dividend.

If you wouldn't insult people all the time you would get replies.

I'm sorry. I just dont know why you are pretending companies are automating due to MW issues.

I didn't say minimum wage caused automation but it was a catalyst that helped cause it.

 

[Asclepias]

When the $15 per hour was first suggested McDonalds started putting kiosks in the store. Ordering at the counter won't bring your food any faster. Drive thru customers get first priority, then kiosk orders and finally the cold hamburger order. Then, Walmart and grocery chains started Home Delivery. People who wonder why a big store like Walmart and Target have 18 cash registers have only 2 or 3 open and a dozen self-checkout stations can thank the minimum wage crusaders.

Now youre being an idiot and blaming MW on technology and business owner greed. That was going to happen anyway. The first priority of a business is to pay its shareholders a large dividend.

If you wouldn't insult people all the time you would get replies.

I'm sorry. I just dont know why you are pretending companies are automating due to MW issues.

I didn't say minimum wage caused automation but it was a catalyst that helped cause it.

No. Thats what I mean about being an idiot. Automation started long ago. It will continue because of technology.

Automation - Wikipedia

 

[dblack]

"What you perceive as a downside is a knowledge that you must start somewhere and typically thats at the bottom. People that start at the bottom should expect a bottom salary that pays the basic bills. It shouldnt pay for your new Bentley. Hence you shouldnt be making $200 per hour."

Your just stating an opinion, not justifying it in any way. Why is it a problem for people to start out rich? Is it a moral thing? Or is there some practical reason you think there should be rich and poor?

You didnt ask for a justification nor does it need to be justified. No one starts out rich unless they inherit it.

I asked for a reason. You're just saying "Because I think it should be that way". It's not exactly persuasive or meaningful. In any case, it's still the same old run around. Still playing dodge 'em.

 

[Asclepias]

"What you perceive as a downside is a knowledge that you must start somewhere and typically thats at the bottom. People that start at the bottom should expect a bottom salary that pays the basic bills. It shouldnt pay for your new Bentley. Hence you shouldnt be making $200 per hour."

Your just stating an opinion, not justifying it in any way. Why is it a problem for people to start out rich? Is it a moral thing? Or is there some practical reason you think there should be rich and poor?

You didnt ask for a justification nor does it need to be justified. No one starts out rich unless they inherit it.

I asked for a reason. You're just saying "Because I think it should be that way". It's not exactly persuasive or meaningful. In any case, it's still the same old run around. Still playing dodge 'em.

I dont waste time trying to persuade people unless they specifically ask me to. I give my facts or opinions without any belief that most people are smart enough to agree with them. If you want me to persuade you then you would have to listen and not argue.

 

[dblack]

"What you perceive as a downside is a knowledge that you must start somewhere and typically thats at the bottom. People that start at the bottom should expect a bottom salary that pays the basic bills. It shouldnt pay for your new Bentley. Hence you shouldnt be making $200 per hour."

Your just stating an opinion, not justifying it in any way. Why is it a problem for people to start out rich? Is it a moral thing? Or is there some practical reason you think there should be rich and poor?

You didnt ask for a justification nor does it need to be justified. No one starts out rich unless they inherit it.

I asked for a reason. You're just saying "Because I think it should be that way". It's not exactly persuasive or meaningful. In any case, it's still the same old run around. Still playing dodge 'em.

I dont waste time trying to persuade people unless they specifically ask me to. I give my facts or opinions without any belief that most people are smart enough to agree with them. If you want me to persuade you then you would have to listen and not argue.

I'm just trying to understand. It seems you think it would cause problems for society if minimum wage were raised too high, but apparently you don't want to discuss it.

 

[danielpalos]

When the $15 per hour was first suggested McDonalds started putting kiosks in the store. Ordering at the counter won't bring your food any faster. Drive thru customers get first priority, then kiosk orders and finally the cold hamburger order. Then, Walmart and grocery chains started Home Delivery. People who wonder why a big store like Walmart and Target have 18 cash registers have only 2 or 3 open and a dozen self-checkout stations can thank the minimum wage crusaders.

Now youre being an idiot and blaming MW on technology and business owner greed. That was going to happen anyway. The first priority of a business is to pay its shareholders a large dividend.

If you wouldn't insult people all the time you would get replies.

I'm sorry. I just dont know why you are pretending companies are automating due to MW issues.

I didn't say minimum wage caused automation but it was a catalyst that helped cause it.

who cares. we don't need the drag of low wage jobs that don't cover the cost of social services.

 

[Asclepias]

"What you perceive as a downside is a knowledge that you must start somewhere and typically thats at the bottom. People that start at the bottom should expect a bottom salary that pays the basic bills. It shouldnt pay for your new Bentley. Hence you shouldnt be making $200 per hour."

Your just stating an opinion, not justifying it in any way. Why is it a problem for people to start out rich? Is it a moral thing? Or is there some practical reason you think there should be rich and poor?

You didnt ask for a justification nor does it need to be justified. No one starts out rich unless they inherit it.

I asked for a reason. You're just saying "Because I think it should be that way". It's not exactly persuasive or meaningful. In any case, it's still the same old run around. Still playing dodge 'em.

I dont waste time trying to persuade people unless they specifically ask me to. I give my facts or opinions without any belief that most people are smart enough to agree with them. If you want me to persuade you then you would have to listen and not argue.

I'm just trying to understand. It seems you think it would cause problems for society if minimum wage were raised too high, but apparently you don't want to discuss it.

Lets put it this way. Life is like climbing a ladder with people throwing bricks at you from the top. You got to take your lumps if youre going to reach the top. The people starting out need the most protection from those bricks until they have developed their own protection. Now imagine someone just starting out being placed 3 or 4 steps from the top. They would get pounded because they dont have their defenses developed.

 

[danielpalos]

Gravity Payments still supports a thirty-five dollar an hour model.

 

[hadit]

There are no downsides to a minimum wage law. What you perceive as a downside is ...

What I perceive as a downside is that it causes unemployment and inflation, and is a violation of basic economic liberty. But my objections aren't the point of the thread.

.. a knowledge that you must start somewhere and typically thats at the bottom. People that start at the bottom should expect a bottom salary that pays the basic bills. It shouldnt pay for your new Bentley. Hence you shouldnt be making $200 per hour.

Ok, so is this your reason for not raising it more? I'm still not clear. If it wouldn't cause any problems, why would you want everyone to be rich?

Well you assumed there was a downside that advocates of MW laws had and youre right your objections werent the point since you specifically asked about what downsides I saw.

I cant put it to you any clearer. Obviously you have the assumption that MW advocates believe everyone should be rich. No one with a brain thinks or assumes that.

So you would arbitrarily deny others the opportunity to be rich even though there's an easy way to make them rich with no downside?