Mueller : Trump is guilty of obstruction. Congress should handle it. Don't bother me again.

[Flopper]

Mueller told you very clearly that if he could have cleared Trump of obstruction, he would have. He could not. Now given that he did so in Vol1, it's not hard to see what he meant.

That doesn't mean he could prove it in a court of law either.

.

And that is exactly why Mueller is leaving it to congress. The bar for impeachment and removal from office is lower than conviction in a criminal court because many of the possible charges fall under the category of bad conduct. The founding fathers had this crazy idea that elected officials should be held to higher standards than the public.

Bad conduct is not the Constitutional standard for impeachment, it's nothing but a subjective term you folks have invented.

.

Bad conduit falls under the category of high crimes and misdemeanors. In the 18th century the term was used to cover a wide range of wrongdoings, some of which include violations of law but also, a host of other things such as violation of oath of office, failure to pay taxes, drunkenness, failure to supervisor subordinates, etc..

Link?

.

High Crimes and Misdemeanors - Constitutional Rights Foundation

 

[Mike473]

The House should just go ahead and impeach, have their photo op and be done with it. The Senate will throw it out within 15 minutes and this whole farce will be over. Half the TV networks don't seem to understand Pelosi can not remove the President and there is no way 67 Senators are voting for this charade. This is a just a joke at this point.

 

[M14 Shooter]

And that is exactly why he is leaving it to congress. The bar for impeachment and removal from office is lower than of conviction in a criminal court. The founding fathers had this crazy idea that elected officials should be held to higher standards than the public.

Except when you want to impeach the President for a crime, the burden of proof for the elements of that crime are the same - each of the elements must be proven, else the crime does not exist and no honest (ie, not a partisan bigot) person will vote to impeach or remove.
If you are a partisan bigot and want to impeach him because you hate him for beating Hillary, -that's- another story.

Federal judicial procedures and laws do not address a Senate impeachment trial because it operates outside of the criminal justice system. Senate rules govern the trial procedure. An impeachment trial has little resemblance to a criminal trial. Since there is no punishment associated with conviction just removal from office. The trial operates more like a civil service removal proceeding than a criminal trial.

Nothing here negates what I said.
Feel free to try again.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Mueller had no way knowing whether or not an impeachment would occur. As he said, it would not be fair for an officer of the court to accuse the president of a crime without charging him since he would have no legal recourse for clearing himself of the crime.

Oh look - you DO understand the Mueller report does not accuse the President of a crime.
Good boy!

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The House should just go ahead and impeach, have their photo op and be done with it. The Senate will throw it out within 15 minutes and this whole farce will be over. Half the TV networks don't seem to understand Pelosi can not remove the President and there is no way 67 Senators are voting for this charade. This is a just a joke at this point.

I didn't get to scouring the news today yet, but I heard on the radio that the house didn't have enough confirmed representatives to impeach. I'm sure some are Piglosi loyalists, but I'm also sure that others who live in borderline districts are not going to chance their reelection on the desires of the wackos in their party.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Trump has been talking about the possibilities of tariffs for well over a year now. What company missed out on that news?

Yes, and everyone probably hoped the moron would forget about his moronic idea, as he has so many others. But peope are start I g to figure out that he really is that big a moron and we ahpuld take him at his w9rd. When he says white supremacists are fine people, he means it.

And apparently, when MSM tells you something, you just believe it. Or would you like me to post the full video (not clips) of what Trump actually said about fine people???

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Except when you want to impeach the President for a crime, the burden of proof for the elements of that crime are the same - each of the elements must be proven, else the crime does not exist and no honest (ie, not a partisan bigot) person will vote to impeach or remove.

If you are a partisan bigot and want to impeach him because you hate him for beating Hillary, -that's- another story.

Hillary is old business I want him out of there because he's a stinking disgrace as Americas leader A vile lying bully without a plan Let him go back to what he does best cheating on his wife and ripping people off

Looking at our economy today, it seems he is doing what he does best.

Yeah fn it up not giving a chance for companies to plan ahead the ah doesn't know what he's doing tomorrow Business in case you didn't know can't run that way Now this mexican tariff if it goes thru will screw millions in the states It's like I've said ,the moron will fight to the last drop of YOUR blood

Right, because Hussein always gave companies chances to plan ahead.

Trump has been talking about the possibilities of tariffs for well over a year now. What company missed out on that news?

Nobody could believe he could f up everything so badly Talk to farmers See how they're doing home builders ,the auto business ,replacement parts vegtables

As a leftist, I guess you believe that when additional costs strike the manufacturer, they just dig deeper in their pockets.

It doesn't work that way and never has. When your auto mechanic, farmer, or remodeler are hit with higher costs to do the job, they pass those costs onto their customers. It's the same kind of crap we are putting up with in the transportation industry. We are shackled with all these environmental costs now. Sure, we pay them up front, but we have to increase our delivery rates. In turn, our customers manufacture goods you and I buy in the store every single time we shop. We consumers pay for those costs.

Just ask your dentist or veterinarian about what Commie Care did to their businesses. The tax on every medical item was levied, and they had to increase their prices for your filling or to get your dog better to recoup those losses.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Except when you want to impeach the President for a crime, the burden of proof for the elements of that crime are the same - each of the elements must be proven, else the crime does not exist and no honest (ie, not a partisan bigot) person will vote to impeach or remove.

If you are a partisan bigot and want to impeach him because you hate him for beating Hillary, -that's- another story.

Hillary is old business I want him out of there because he's a stinking disgrace as Americas leader A vile lying bully without a plan Let him go back to what he does best cheating on his wife and ripping people off

Looking at our economy today, it seems he is doing what he does best.

Yeah fn it up not giving a chance for companies to plan ahead the ah doesn't know what he's doing tomorrow Business in case you didn't know can't run that way Now this mexican tariff if it goes thru will screw millions in the states It's like I've said ,the moron will fight to the last drop of YOUR blood

Right, because Hussein always gave companies chances to plan ahead.

Trump has been talking about the possibilities of tariffs for well over a year now. What company missed out on that news?

markets did well under obama ,,,,no trade wars that you can't win etc etc

Yes they did. It was called Quantitive Easing. DumBama sure as hell was not responsible for the market. Businesses hated the guy and rightfully so.

 

[edward37]

Hillary is old business I want him out of there because he's a stinking disgrace as Americas leader A vile lying bully without a plan Let him go back to what he does best cheating on his wife and ripping people off

Looking at our economy today, it seems he is doing what he does best.

Yeah fn it up not giving a chance for companies to plan ahead the ah doesn't know what he's doing tomorrow Business in case you didn't know can't run that way Now this mexican tariff if it goes thru will screw millions in the states It's like I've said ,the moron will fight to the last drop of YOUR blood

Right, because Hussein always gave companies chances to plan ahead.

Trump has been talking about the possibilities of tariffs for well over a year now. What company missed out on that news?

Nobody could believe he could f up everything so badly Talk to farmers See how they're doing home builders ,the auto business ,replacement parts vegtables

As a leftist, I guess you believe that when additional costs strike the manufacturer, they just dig deeper in their pockets.

It doesn't work that way and never has. When your auto mechanic, farmer, or remodeler are hit with higher costs to do the job, they pass those costs onto their customers. It's the same kind of crap we are putting up with in the transportation industry. We are shackled with all these environmental costs now. Sure, we pay them up front, but we have to increase our delivery rates. In turn, our customers manufacture goods you and I buy in the store every single time we shop. We consumers pay for those costs.

Just ask your dentist or veterinarian about what Commie Care did to their businesses. The tax on every medical item was levied, and they had to increase their prices for your filling or to get your dog better to recoup those losses.

I'm just saying tariffs are like additional taxes People will pay more or go without Their choice

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Looking at our economy today, it seems he is doing what he does best.

Yeah fn it up not giving a chance for companies to plan ahead the ah doesn't know what he's doing tomorrow Business in case you didn't know can't run that way Now this mexican tariff if it goes thru will screw millions in the states It's like I've said ,the moron will fight to the last drop of YOUR blood

Right, because Hussein always gave companies chances to plan ahead.

Trump has been talking about the possibilities of tariffs for well over a year now. What company missed out on that news?

Nobody could believe he could f up everything so badly Talk to farmers See how they're doing home builders ,the auto business ,replacement parts vegtables

As a leftist, I guess you believe that when additional costs strike the manufacturer, they just dig deeper in their pockets.

It doesn't work that way and never has. When your auto mechanic, farmer, or remodeler are hit with higher costs to do the job, they pass those costs onto their customers. It's the same kind of crap we are putting up with in the transportation industry. We are shackled with all these environmental costs now. Sure, we pay them up front, but we have to increase our delivery rates. In turn, our customers manufacture goods you and I buy in the store every single time we shop. We consumers pay for those costs.

Just ask your dentist or veterinarian about what Commie Care did to their businesses. The tax on every medical item was levied, and they had to increase their prices for your filling or to get your dog better to recoup those losses.

I'm just saying tariffs are like additional taxes People will pay more or go without Their choice

Agreed, people will pay more, but not the producers. We consumers will pay more just like we did when Commie Care was instituted.

 

[edward37]

Hillary is old business I want him out of there because he's a stinking disgrace as Americas leader A vile lying bully without a plan Let him go back to what he does best cheating on his wife and ripping people off

Looking at our economy today, it seems he is doing what he does best.

Yeah fn it up not giving a chance for companies to plan ahead the ah doesn't know what he's doing tomorrow Business in case you didn't know can't run that way Now this mexican tariff if it goes thru will screw millions in the states It's like I've said ,the moron will fight to the last drop of YOUR blood

Right, because Hussein always gave companies chances to plan ahead.

Trump has been talking about the possibilities of tariffs for well over a year now. What company missed out on that news?

markets did well under obama ,,,,no trade wars that you can't win etc etc

Yes they did. It was called Quantitive Easing. DumBama sure as hell was not responsible for the market. Businesses hated the guy and rightfully so.

DOW almost doubled Did they hate that?

 

[edward37]

Yeah fn it up not giving a chance for companies to plan ahead the ah doesn't know what he's doing tomorrow Business in case you didn't know can't run that way Now this mexican tariff if it goes thru will screw millions in the states It's like I've said ,the moron will fight to the last drop of YOUR blood

Right, because Hussein always gave companies chances to plan ahead.

Trump has been talking about the possibilities of tariffs for well over a year now. What company missed out on that news?

Nobody could believe he could f up everything so badly Talk to farmers See how they're doing home builders ,the auto business ,replacement parts vegtables

As a leftist, I guess you believe that when additional costs strike the manufacturer, they just dig deeper in their pockets.

It doesn't work that way and never has. When your auto mechanic, farmer, or remodeler are hit with higher costs to do the job, they pass those costs onto their customers. It's the same kind of crap we are putting up with in the transportation industry. We are shackled with all these environmental costs now. Sure, we pay them up front, but we have to increase our delivery rates. In turn, our customers manufacture goods you and I buy in the store every single time we shop. We consumers pay for those costs.

Just ask your dentist or veterinarian about what Commie Care did to their businesses. The tax on every medical item was levied, and they had to increase their prices for your filling or to get your dog better to recoup those losses.

I'm just saying tariffs are like additional taxes People will pay more or go without Their choice

Agreed, people will pay more, but not the producers. We consumers will pay more just like we did when Commie Care was instituted.

They might pay more but the big guys aren't going to produce so much Already I see many companies lowering their estimates for the year Trump is a cancer on America imo

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Right, because Hussein always gave companies chances to plan ahead.

Trump has been talking about the possibilities of tariffs for well over a year now. What company missed out on that news?

Nobody could believe he could f up everything so badly Talk to farmers See how they're doing home builders ,the auto business ,replacement parts vegtables

As a leftist, I guess you believe that when additional costs strike the manufacturer, they just dig deeper in their pockets.

It doesn't work that way and never has. When your auto mechanic, farmer, or remodeler are hit with higher costs to do the job, they pass those costs onto their customers. It's the same kind of crap we are putting up with in the transportation industry. We are shackled with all these environmental costs now. Sure, we pay them up front, but we have to increase our delivery rates. In turn, our customers manufacture goods you and I buy in the store every single time we shop. We consumers pay for those costs.

Just ask your dentist or veterinarian about what Commie Care did to their businesses. The tax on every medical item was levied, and they had to increase their prices for your filling or to get your dog better to recoup those losses.

I'm just saying tariffs are like additional taxes People will pay more or go without Their choice

Agreed, people will pay more, but not the producers. We consumers will pay more just like we did when Commie Care was instituted.

They might pay more but the big guys aren't going to produce so much Already I see many companies lowering their estimates for the year Trump is a cancer on America imo

I see just the opposite and I'm in the industry. Our box companies are the best indicators. When they are overloaded with business, it means their customers are making products at a high rate. When that happens, their drivers are working too many hours and they call us to pickup the slack.

Remember that the leftist economic gloom and doom started before Trump even walked into the oval office. Two and a half years later, we ended up with the lowest unemployment rate in nearly 50 years and more jobs than Americans to do them.

 

[edward37]

Nobody could believe he could f up everything so badly Talk to farmers See how they're doing home builders ,the auto business ,replacement parts vegtables

As a leftist, I guess you believe that when additional costs strike the manufacturer, they just dig deeper in their pockets.

It doesn't work that way and never has. When your auto mechanic, farmer, or remodeler are hit with higher costs to do the job, they pass those costs onto their customers. It's the same kind of crap we are putting up with in the transportation industry. We are shackled with all these environmental costs now. Sure, we pay them up front, but we have to increase our delivery rates. In turn, our customers manufacture goods you and I buy in the store every single time we shop. We consumers pay for those costs.

Just ask your dentist or veterinarian about what Commie Care did to their businesses. The tax on every medical item was levied, and they had to increase their prices for your filling or to get your dog better to recoup those losses.

I'm just saying tariffs are like additional taxes People will pay more or go without Their choice

Agreed, people will pay more, but not the producers. We consumers will pay more just like we did when Commie Care was instituted.

They might pay more but the big guys aren't going to produce so much Already I see many companies lowering their estimates for the year Trump is a cancer on America imo

I see just the opposite and I'm in the industry. Our box companies are the best indicators. When they are overloaded with business, it means their customers are making products at a high rate. When that happens, their drivers are working too many hours and they call us to pickup the slack.

Remember that the leftist economic gloom and doom started before Trump even walked into the oval office. Two and a half years later, we ended up with the lowest unemployment rate in nearly 50 years and more jobs than Americans to do them.

People stocking up before prices rise?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Why is this not in the Conspiracy section????
All we have now is libbies rehashing what has already been disproven.

10 cases of obstruction HAVE NOT been disproven

They haven't been proven either. By the time the Bill Clinton investigation was done, he had 11 obstruction charges from Ken Starr.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

But longstanding policy did. So he left it to the AG and to the congress. As he said.

Come on people, this is not complicated stuff.

Sorry, but that's a coward's way out.
His job was to make a decision....not leave it to Congress or the media to decide guilt or innocence.

Mueller's decision was not guilt or innocence but rather whether charges would be made against Trump. Since he was not allowed by the regulations he worked under to charge the president, he did exactly the right thing. He left it to congress. As he said, it would be unfair for him to accuse the president without charging him and leave him no legal means of clearing himself.

Many of the accusations being made against the president come more under the category of bad conduct, conduct unbecoming a president, or actions that are borderline criminal behavior. These are the type charges that are more fitting impeachment than a criminal court.

Accusimg trump of a crime in the report would have been a formal accusation. Mueller explicitly said that a formal accusation against the president was not an option he could consider.

Sure it was. Ken Starr did it. He out and out accused Bill Clinton, gave his reasons, and provided his evidence.

He also gave a complete untedacted report to congress. Different rules.

Barr conducted himself according to the Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure. I don't know if those sections of the FRCP were in place at the time.

 

[Butch_Coolidge]

And that is exactly why he is leaving it to congress. The bar for impeachment and removal from office is lower than of conviction in a criminal court. The founding fathers had this crazy idea that elected officials should be held to higher standards than the public.

Except when you want to impeach the President for a crime, the burden of proof for the elements of that crime are the same - each of the elements must be proven, else the crime does not exist and no honest (ie, not a partisan bigot) person will vote to impeach or remove.

If you are a partisan bigot and want to impeach him because you hate him for beating Hillary, -that's- another story.

Hillary is old business I want him out of there because he's a stinking disgrace as Americas leader A vile lying bully without a plan Let him go back to what he does best cheating on his wife and ripping people off

He could probably help you with your punctuation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[edward37]

And that is exactly why he is leaving it to congress. The bar for impeachment and removal from office is lower than of conviction in a criminal court. The founding fathers had this crazy idea that elected officials should be held to higher standards than the public.

Except when you want to impeach the President for a crime, the burden of proof for the elements of that crime are the same - each of the elements must be proven, else the crime does not exist and no honest (ie, not a partisan bigot) person will vote to impeach or remove.

If you are a partisan bigot and want to impeach him because you hate him for beating Hillary, -that's- another story.

Hillary is old business I want him out of there because he's a stinking disgrace as Americas leader A vile lying bully without a plan Let him go back to what he does best cheating on his wife and ripping people off

He could probably help you with your punctuation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A punctuation mod. LOL, You might, but the moron in the WH couldn't

 

[Butch_Coolidge]

And that is exactly why he is leaving it to congress. The bar for impeachment and removal from office is lower than of conviction in a criminal court. The founding fathers had this crazy idea that elected officials should be held to higher standards than the public.

Except when you want to impeach the President for a crime, the burden of proof for the elements of that crime are the same - each of the elements must be proven, else the crime does not exist and no honest (ie, not a partisan bigot) person will vote to impeach or remove.

If you are a partisan bigot and want to impeach him because you hate him for beating Hillary, -that's- another story.

Hillary is old business I want him out of there because he's a stinking disgrace as Americas leader A vile lying bully without a plan Let him go back to what he does best cheating on his wife and ripping people off

He could probably help you with your punctuation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A punctuation mod. LOL, You might, but the moron in the WH couldn't

MPGA!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Flopper]

Hillary is old business I want him out of there because he's a stinking disgrace as Americas leader A vile lying bully without a plan Let him go back to what he does best cheating on his wife and ripping people off

Looking at our economy today, it seems he is doing what he does best.

Yeah fn it up not giving a chance for companies to plan ahead the ah doesn't know what he's doing tomorrow Business in case you didn't know can't run that way Now this mexican tariff if it goes thru will screw millions in the states It's like I've said ,the moron will fight to the last drop of YOUR blood

Right, because Hussein always gave companies chances to plan ahead.

Trump has been talking about the possibilities of tariffs for well over a year now. What company missed out on that news?

Nobody could believe he could f up everything so badly Talk to farmers See how they're doing home builders ,the auto business ,replacement parts vegtables

As a leftist, I guess you believe that when additional costs strike the manufacturer, they just dig deeper in their pockets.

It doesn't work that way and never has. When your auto mechanic, farmer, or remodeler are hit with higher costs to do the job, they pass those costs onto their customers. It's the same kind of crap we are putting up with in the transportation industry. We are shackled with all these environmental costs now. Sure, we pay them up front, but we have to increase our delivery rates. In turn, our customers manufacture goods you and I buy in the store every single time we shop. We consumers pay for those costs.

Just ask your dentist or veterinarian about what Commie Care did to their businesses. The tax on every medical item was levied, and they had to increase their prices for your filling or to get your dog better to recoup those losses.

I'm glad to hear that you understand that the cost of the Trump tariffs will not be borne by the Chinese or the Mexicans but American business and their customers. Businesses will pass along the costs to customers if the market will bear it. Sometimes it will and sometimes it won't.

I have a friend who works in an electronic assembly plant. Practically all the company's parts and assemblies come from China. Two weeks ago their import representative in China contacted all their suppliers. Not one was willing to adjust their price to cover any portion of the tariffs the company has to pay it. The result is the company is going to eat almost 90% of the cost, over a million dollar of Trump tariffs over the next 3 months with price increase picking up the remaining 10%. The assembly plant will be closed as of the 1st of the year with assembly being transferred to Indonesia. Care to explain how this helps America?