Much has changed since FDR gave this speech.

berg80

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2017
Messages
25,096
Reaction score
21,096
Points
2,320
https://www.politico.com/video/2019/11/01/fdr-i-welcome-their-hatred-069035

The sentiment he expressed has a familiar ring to it. FDR positioned himself as an anti-establishment populist. However, in those days he defined the institutions he fought as being enemies of peace, business and financial monopolies, speculators, reckless bankers, class antagonists, sectionalists, and war profiteers. He accused them of being in favor of a "do nothing" government in order for their power to be unchecked. They relished the concentration of power they amassed, holding FDR in contempt for trying to take it away. In FDR's view, institutional power needed to be given to the people.

He was seen, rightly so, as the champion of the little man. A vision of him he went on to earn many times over.

I thought of his speech while I was reading this op-ed from the NYT's resident conservative, David Brooks.

The Moral Challenge of Trumpism

MAGA morality is likely to regard people like me as lemmings. We climbed our way up through the meritocracy by shape shifting ourselves into whatever teachers, bosses and the system wanted us to be. Worse, we serve and preserve systems that are fundamentally corrupt and illegitimate — the financial institutions that created the financial crisis, the health authorities who closed schools during Covid, the mainstream media and federal bureaucracy that has led the nation to ruin.

What does heroism look like according the MAGA morality? It looks like the sort of people whom Trump has picked to be in his cabinet. The virtuous man in this morality is self-assertive, combative, transgressive and vengeful. He’s not afraid to break the rules and come to his own conclusions. He has contempt for institutions and is happy to be a battering force to bring them down. He is unbothered by elite scorn but, in fact, revels in it and goes out of his way to generate it.

In this mind-set, if the establishment regards you as a sleazeball, you must be doing something right. If the legal system indicts you, you must be a virtuous man.

Opinion | The Inverted Morality of MAGA

I have lost count of the times I've seen a MAGAist say, "If Dem's object to trump's cabinet picks he must be doing something right." Or pointing to his indictments as a badge of honor.

In this morality, the fact that a presidential nominee is accused of sexual assault is a feature, not a bug. It’s a sign that this nominee is a manly man. Manly men go after what they want. They assert themselves and smash propriety — including grabbing women “by the *****” if they feel like it.

The Right has tried to diminish FDR for the very thing making him so wildly popular in his day. Standing up for the little guy against monied interests. Proposing government could be an agent for the good of the people. And by his force of will he made it so.

These days, government has been demonized by a populist trying to convince the public he and he alone is the agent for good. To achieve his goals he must be given unbridled power. To MAGA he must reshape the government in his own image. In Baby Donald's view, institutional (defined by the fictional "deep state") power needs to be given to him.
 
I would love to participate in an open debate with ANY Leftist on the relative morality of the two competing platforms in this election. Hell, I would defend Trump's personal morality if it came to that, but as a rational human I truly do not care about the personal morality of politicians except when it comes to official corruption.

The Left advocates abortion up to and including the moment of live birth, and it is no defense to say that it is rare. Even if one were to concede that a fetus MIGHT BE a "person" that is sufficient to make all abortions immoral.

The Left advocates the barbaric mutilation - physical and chemical - of children, to patronize their unfounded delusions of gender mis-assignment.

The Left supports confiscation of the earnings of successful people to an extent that would be considered theft, or punishment of success, in any rational discussion.

The Left advocates making working class people suffer with higher energy costs TODAY, in the hope that global temperatures might be half a degree F lower in a hundred years. And yet they claim to advocate for the working class and poor.

Leftists constantly lie to promote their political agendae, slander innocent people with whom they disagree politically, and advocate using the Justice system to punish or thwart their political enemies.

The Left has presided over the gradual deterioration of public education, and supported teachers' unions that openly do things and support initiatives that go against the best interests of the students that they are obliged to support.

The Left constantly initiates and furthers unconstitutional government programs that literally take money out of taxpayers' pockets to buy them votes, e.g., student loan "forgiveness."

Bring it on.
 
https://www.politico.com/video/2019/11/01/fdr-i-welcome-their-hatred-069035

The sentiment he expressed has a familiar ring to it. FDR positioned himself as an anti-establishment populist. However, in those days he defined the institutions he fought as being enemies of peace, business and financial monopolies, speculators, reckless bankers, class antagonists, sectionalists, and war profiteers. He accused them of being in favor of a "do nothing" government in order for their power to be unchecked. They relished the concentration of power they amassed, holding FDR in contempt for trying to take it away. In FDR's view, institutional power needed to be given to the people.

He was seen, rightly so, as the champion of the little man. A vision of him he went on to earn many times over.

I thought of his speech while I was reading this op-ed from the NYT's resident conservative, David Brooks.

The Moral Challenge of Trumpism

MAGA morality is likely to regard people like me as lemmings. We climbed our way up through the meritocracy by shape shifting ourselves into whatever teachers, bosses and the system wanted us to be. Worse, we serve and preserve systems that are fundamentally corrupt and illegitimate — the financial institutions that created the financial crisis, the health authorities who closed schools during Covid, the mainstream media and federal bureaucracy that has led the nation to ruin.

What does heroism look like according the MAGA morality? It looks like the sort of people whom Trump has picked to be in his cabinet. The virtuous man in this morality is self-assertive, combative, transgressive and vengeful. He’s not afraid to break the rules and come to his own conclusions. He has contempt for institutions and is happy to be a battering force to bring them down. He is unbothered by elite scorn but, in fact, revels in it and goes out of his way to generate it.

In this mind-set, if the establishment regards you as a sleazeball, you must be doing something right. If the legal system indicts you, you must be a virtuous man.

Opinion | The Inverted Morality of MAGA

I have lost count of the times I've seen a MAGAist say, "If Dem's object to trump's cabinet picks he must be doing something right." Or pointing to his indictments as a badge of honor.

In this morality, the fact that a presidential nominee is accused of sexual assault is a feature, not a bug. It’s a sign that this nominee is a manly man. Manly men go after what they want. They assert themselves and smash propriety — including grabbing women “by the *****” if they feel like it.

The Right has tried to diminish FDR for the very thing making him so wildly popular in his day. Standing up for the little guy against monied interests. Proposing government could be an agent for the good of the people. And by his force of will he made it so.

These days, government has been demonized by a populist trying to convince the public he and he alone is the agent for good. To achieve his goals he must be given unbridled power. To MAGA he must reshape the government in his own image. In Baby Donald's view, institutional (defined by the fictional "deep state") power needs to be given to him.
David Brooks is no Conservative

FDR <3 Uncle Joe
 
The sentiment he expressed has a familiar ring to it. FDR positioned himself as an anti-establishment populist. However, in those days he defined the institutions he fought as being enemies of peace, business and financial monopolies, speculators, reckless bankers, class antagonists, sectionalists, and war profiteers. He accused them of being in favor of a "do nothing" government in order for their power to be unchecked. They relished the concentration of power they amassed, holding FDR in contempt for trying to take it away. In FDR's view, institutional power needed to be given to the people.


Luckily for criminal scumbag FDR back in the mid 1930s there was no internet and no independent journalists - exposing him as a fucking liar and criminal

"Stinnett demonstrates, on the basis of extensive incontrovertible factual evidence and self-evidently accurate analysis that President Roosevelt oversaw the contrivance and deployment of a closely-guarded secret plan to goad the Japanese into attacking Pearl Harbor..."

 
https://www.politico.com/video/2019/11/01/fdr-i-welcome-their-hatred-069035

The sentiment he expressed has a familiar ring to it. FDR positioned himself as an anti-establishment populist. However, in those days he defined the institutions he fought as being enemies of peace, business and financial monopolies, speculators, reckless bankers, class antagonists, sectionalists, and war profiteers. He accused them of being in favor of a "do nothing" government in order for their power to be unchecked. They relished the concentration of power they amassed, holding FDR in contempt for trying to take it away. In FDR's view, institutional power needed to be given to the people.

He was seen, rightly so, as the champion of the little man. A vision of him he went on to earn many times over.

I thought of his speech while I was reading this op-ed from the NYT's resident conservative, David Brooks.

The Moral Challenge of Trumpism

MAGA morality is likely to regard people like me as lemmings. We climbed our way up through the meritocracy by shape shifting ourselves into whatever teachers, bosses and the system wanted us to be. Worse, we serve and preserve systems that are fundamentally corrupt and illegitimate — the financial institutions that created the financial crisis, the health authorities who closed schools during Covid, the mainstream media and federal bureaucracy that has led the nation to ruin.

What does heroism look like according the MAGA morality? It looks like the sort of people whom Trump has picked to be in his cabinet. The virtuous man in this morality is self-assertive, combative, transgressive and vengeful. He’s not afraid to break the rules and come to his own conclusions. He has contempt for institutions and is happy to be a battering force to bring them down. He is unbothered by elite scorn but, in fact, revels in it and goes out of his way to generate it.

In this mind-set, if the establishment regards you as a sleazeball, you must be doing something right. If the legal system indicts you, you must be a virtuous man.

Opinion | The Inverted Morality of MAGA

I have lost count of the times I've seen a MAGAist say, "If Dem's object to trump's cabinet picks he must be doing something right." Or pointing to his indictments as a badge of honor.

In this morality, the fact that a presidential nominee is accused of sexual assault is a feature, not a bug. It’s a sign that this nominee is a manly man. Manly men go after what they want. They assert themselves and smash propriety — including grabbing women “by the *****” if they feel like it.

The Right has tried to diminish FDR for the very thing making him so wildly popular in his day. Standing up for the little guy against monied interests. Proposing government could be an agent for the good of the people. And by his force of will he made it so.

These days, government has been demonized by a populist trying to convince the public he and he alone is the agent for good. To achieve his goals he must be given unbridled power. To MAGA he must reshape the government in his own image. In Baby Donald's view, institutional (defined by the fictional "deep state") power needs to be given to him.
TDSZombies.webp
 
Luckily for criminal scumbag FDR back in the mid 1930s there was no internet and no independent journalists - exposing him as a fucking liar and criminal

"Stinnett demonstrates, on the basis of extensive incontrovertible factual evidence and self-evidently accurate analysis that President Roosevelt oversaw the contrivance and deployment of a closely-guarded secret plan to goad the Japanese into attacking Pearl Harbor..."

FDR would welcome your hatred if he were alive.
 
trump and his propagandists would be thrilled to know their messaging worked.
Okay. Well what's your message? Convince me I should support whatever it is you're selling, and that it'll help me and mine.
 
Last edited:
Okay. Well what's your message? Convince me I should support whatever it is you're selling, and that it'll help me and mine.
I suppose the main message is if there are problems with our institutions the solution is to make them better, not burn them down as trump clearly wants to do. Because when vacuums of power and authority are created strongmen step in to fill the void.
 
I suppose the main message is if there are problems with our institutions the solution is to make them better, not burn them down as trump clearly wants to do. Because when vacuums of power and authority are created strongmen step in to fill the void.
What if the institutions have reached a point where I no longer believe that it is possible to reform them? Also, what is inherently wrong with strongmen?
 
Unfortunately a brain dead motherfucker like you fail to understand the CRIMINALITY of his acts - how many GIs are dead because he wanted to join WW2, how many millions were wasted in prosecuting WW2
So...........the world would be a better place if the Nazis had taken over Europe? Sometimes, threats to liberty must be confronted.
 
What if the institutions have reached a point where I no longer believe that it is possible to reform them? Also, what is inherently wrong with strongmen?
Self governance requires hard work and attention by the citizenry. Work that has been sorely lacking. The answer is not taking the easy way, to light our bedrock institutions on fire.
Strongmen are inherently anti-democratic. Perhaps that's okay with you.
 
Self governance requires hard work and attention by the citizenry. Work that has been sorely lacking. The answer is not taking the easy way, to light them on fire.
Strongmen are inherently anti-democratic. Perhaps that's okay with you.
I don't view democracy as an inherent good. It is nothing more than a form of government. Furthermore, I do not regard the US as particularly democratic, and there's a good argument to be made for that case. Finally, I think it's...not entirely incorrect, but improper to blame the victims (in this case the citizenry) for their lot. Beyond being able to vote in elections where, frankly, there's really only one party on the ballot, they can't actually do much.
 
https://www.politico.com/video/2019/11/01/fdr-i-welcome-their-hatred-069035

The sentiment he expressed has a familiar ring to it. FDR positioned himself as an anti-establishment populist. However, in those days he defined the institutions he fought as being enemies of peace, business and financial monopolies, speculators, reckless bankers, class antagonists, sectionalists, and war profiteers. He accused them of being in favor of a "do nothing" government in order for their power to be unchecked. They relished the concentration of power they amassed, holding FDR in contempt for trying to take it away. In FDR's view, institutional power needed to be given to the people.

He was seen, rightly so, as the champion of the little man. A vision of him he went on to earn many times over.

I thought of his speech while I was reading this op-ed from the NYT's resident conservative, David Brooks.

The Moral Challenge of Trumpism

MAGA morality is likely to regard people like me as lemmings. We climbed our way up through the meritocracy by shape shifting ourselves into whatever teachers, bosses and the system wanted us to be. Worse, we serve and preserve systems that are fundamentally corrupt and illegitimate — the financial institutions that created the financial crisis, the health authorities who closed schools during Covid, the mainstream media and federal bureaucracy that has led the nation to ruin.

What does heroism look like according the MAGA morality? It looks like the sort of people whom Trump has picked to be in his cabinet. The virtuous man in this morality is self-assertive, combative, transgressive and vengeful. He’s not afraid to break the rules and come to his own conclusions. He has contempt for institutions and is happy to be a battering force to bring them down. He is unbothered by elite scorn but, in fact, revels in it and goes out of his way to generate it.

In this mind-set, if the establishment regards you as a sleazeball, you must be doing something right. If the legal system indicts you, you must be a virtuous man.

Opinion | The Inverted Morality of MAGA

I have lost count of the times I've seen a MAGAist say, "If Dem's object to trump's cabinet picks he must be doing something right." Or pointing to his indictments as a badge of honor.

In this morality, the fact that a presidential nominee is accused of sexual assault is a feature, not a bug. It’s a sign that this nominee is a manly man. Manly men go after what they want. They assert themselves and smash propriety — including grabbing women “by the *****” if they feel like it.

The Right has tried to diminish FDR for the very thing making him so wildly popular in his day. Standing up for the little guy against monied interests. Proposing government could be an agent for the good of the people. And by his force of will he made it so.

These days, government has been demonized by a populist trying to convince the public he and he alone is the agent for good. To achieve his goals he must be given unbridled power. To MAGA he must reshape the government in his own image. In Baby Donald's view, institutional (defined by the fictional "deep state") power needs to be given to him.

FDR also detested public sector unions, forget that part?
 
I don't view democracy as an inherent good. It is nothing more than a form of government. Furthermore, I do not regard the US as particularly democratic, and there's a good argument to be made for that case. Finally, I think it's...not entirely incorrect, but improper to blame the victims (in this case the citizenry) for their lot. Beyond being able to vote in elections where, frankly, there's really only one party on the ballot, they can't actually do much.
We the people get all the democracy we deserve. Government is not an abstraction. It's a reflection of how informed we are, how willing we are to participate in the process, and how vigilant we are in holding our elected reps accountable. Misinformation and apathy has given us trump 2.0. We will pay the price for it.

Gotta go. Appreciate the conversation.
 
Back
Top Bottom