Mubarak unleashes thugs on peaceful protesters.

[Sallow]

So until someone is ready is it the best thing to just throw Mubarak out now, and risk the whole thing descending into chaos?

That is a problem. The options are a power vacuum or same-o same-o with the current regime.

Maybe someone like ElBaradei can hold things together until the dust settles.

So Mubarak is just supposed to hand over to the reigns to his rival? how do you know Elbaradei is going to do any better than Mubarak? will Egypt turn into Sweden overnight under his leadership?

Kind of a mute point.

It will probably turn out like Iran or China. My dream of a Czech Republic sort of event in the Middle East is officially over.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Doesn't he have ties to Hamas and the Brotherhood?

I have heard that rumor. They are not the Taleban, you know.

The Muslim Brotherhood: The Future of Egypt? - Yahoo! News

Jewish Leader: ElBaradei a 'Stooge for Iran'

http://news.yahoo.com/s/atlantic/20110131/cm_atlantic/themuslimbrotherhoodthefutureofegypt6780]The Muslim Brotherhood: The Future of Egypt? - Yahoo! News

Are They a Threat to the U.S.? Think Progress writer Tonya Somanader scoffs at the purported threat of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, calling it the Republican hardliners' "delusion-du-jour." She writes that Representative Thaddeus McCotter and UN Ambassador John Bolton are among many in the U.S. who believe "the result of this pro-democracy movement will be the enfranchisement of the Muslim Brotherhood and other anti-American 'jihadist nutjobs.'" She cites Dr. Mohamed ElBaradei's appearance on Fareek Zakaria's CNN show in which he denounced such assertions as "a myth perpetuated and sold by the Mubarak regime," insisting that the religiously conservative group is a minority in Egypt, but has a lot of credit because they are interested in a secular state. Somanader affirms ElBaradei's comments by writing that the Muslim Brotherhood has moved away from its past violence and, now peaceful, is the largest opposition group to the Egyptian government.
Now allied with legal Egyptian political groups and tied to Egyptian professional unions, university campuses, and social welfare programs, the Brotherhood is a “peaceful” group that “could draw moderate Muslims who identify with [its] ideology to participate in electoral politics, thereby isolating violent jihadis.” Indeed, the Brotherhood denounced a recent terrorist attack in Egypt as a “cowardly act” and is not on the U.S. State Department’s terrorist list....Though banned by Mubarak’s regime from participating in parliamentary elections, the Brotherhood has 17 supportive representatives in the Egyptian Parliament and is supporting ElBaradei’s leadership role in forming a new government without Mubarak.

Jewish]WORLD JEWISH DAILY Leader: ElBaradei a 'Stooge for Iran

Grain of salt.

 

[High_Gravity]

That is a problem. The options are a power vacuum or same-o same-o with the current regime.

Maybe someone like ElBaradei can hold things together until the dust settles.

So Mubarak is just supposed to hand over to the reigns to his rival? how do you know Elbaradei is going to do any better than Mubarak? will Egypt turn into Sweden overnight under his leadership?

Kind of a mute point.

It will probably turn out like Iran or China. My dream of a Czech Republic sort of event in the Middle East is officially over.

I think alot of people are going to be let down, it seems like alot of people think that Egypts problems will go away once Mubarak is gone, kind of like the attitude that when the US removed Saddam Iraq will be all peaches and cream.

 

[georgephillip]

Uh when they got their independence.

Do you consider today's Iraqis independent?

Is Mubarak independent of Washington?

Iraqis will be truly independent when the US troops leave at the end of the year, Mubarak took a billion a year to help his Military and keep the peace with Israel, whats wrong with that?

Who will be patrolling Iraqi skies this time next year, and beyond.

How about their coastal waters?

If US ground forces leave, it appears they will hand the occupation over to the US State Department and thousands of private foreign security contractors.

The massive embassy and bases we've constructed in Iraq and Afghanistan seem to imply we'll be there at least as long as we've been in Germany and Japan. (If the dollar remains the world's reserve currency)

Mubarak is another in a long line of loathsome dictators we've propped up to ensure the survival of a "Jewish Democracy" that was originally designed to destabilize the Middle East.

Arms sales and oil sales?

 

[Trajan]

Mubarak already passed the baton to one of his cronies, intelligence director Omar Suleiman. Mubarak will stay in office until they have the next fake election, and the cronies will stay in power.

Unless the people keep up the heat there will be no change in Egyptian politics.

Who do you have in mind to lead Egypt?

Good question. Anyone worth while is in prison, exiled, or dead.

wow, sounds like gaza huh?

 

[Trajan]

Do you consider today's Iraqis independent?

Is Mubarak independent of Washington?

Iraqis will be truly independent when the US troops leave at the end of the year, Mubarak took a billion a year to help his Military and keep the peace with Israel, whats wrong with that?

Mubarak is another in a long line of loathsome dictators we've propped up to ensure the survival of a "Jewish Democracy" that was originally designed to destabilize the Middle East.

Arms sales and oil sales?

oh for god sakes...

 

[georgephillip]

"The US government has long corrupted Arab governments by paying rulers installed by the US to represent US/Israeli interests rather than the interest of Arab peoples.

"Arabs put up with American-financed oppression for many years, but now are showing signs of rebellion.

"The murderous American-installed dictator in Tunis was overthrown by people taking to the streets. Rebellion has spread to Egypt and there are also street protests against the US-supported rulers in Yemen and Jordan.

"These uprisings might succeed in ousting puppet rulers, but will the result be anything more than the exchange of a new American puppet ruler for the old?

"Mubarak might go, but whoever takes his place is likely to find himself wearing the same American harness."

The author of this article makes a pretty convincing argument it will be the demise of the US dollar that ultimately decides who goes and who stays in the Middle East.

Mubarak already passed the baton to one of his cronies, intelligence director Omar Suleiman. Mubarak will stay in office until they have the next fake election, and the cronies will stay in power.

Unless the people keep up the heat there will be no change in Egyptian politics.

He's probably hoping for the Iranian outcome.

Juan Cole has a similar line of thought:

"People worrying about Egypt becoming like Iran (scroll down) should worry about Egypt already being way too much like Iran as it is.

"That is, Hillary Clinton and others expressed anxiety in public about increasing militarization of the Iranian regime and use of military and paramilitaries to repress popular protests.

"But Egypt is far more militarized and now is using exactly the same tactics."

 

[georgephillip]

"The US government has long corrupted Arab governments by paying rulers installed by the US to represent US/Israeli interests rather than the interest of Arab peoples.

"Arabs put up with American-financed oppression for many years, but now are showing signs of rebellion.

"The murderous American-installed dictator in Tunis was overthrown by people taking to the streets. Rebellion has spread to Egypt and there are also street protests against the US-supported rulers in Yemen and Jordan.

"These uprisings might succeed in ousting puppet rulers, but will the result be anything more than the exchange of a new American puppet ruler for the old?

"Mubarak might go, but whoever takes his place is likely to find himself wearing the same American harness."

The author of this article makes a pretty convincing argument it will be the demise of the US dollar that ultimately decides who goes and who stays in the Middle East.

Mubarak already passed the baton to one of his cronies, intelligence director Omar Suleiman. Mubarak will stay in office until they have the next fake election, and the cronies will stay in power.

Unless the people keep up the heat there will be no change in Egyptian politics.

Juan Cole is suggesting the Army has gone as far as it's willing to go to support "democratic" reform in Egypt.

"The outlines of Hosni Mubarak’s efforts to maintain regime stability and continuity have now become clear. In response to the mass demonstrations of the past week, he has done the following:

"1. Late last week, he first tried to use the uniformed police and secret police to repress the crowds, killing perhaps 200-300 and wounding hundreds.

"2. This effort failed to quell the protests, and the police were then withdrawn altogether, leaving the country defenseless before gangs of burglars and other criminal elements (some of which may have been composed of secret police or paid informers). The public dealt with this threat of lawlessness by organizing self-defense neighborhood patrols, and continued to refuse to stop demonstrating.

"3. Mubarak appointed military intelligence ogre Omar Suleiman vice president. Suleiman had orchestrated the destruction of the Muslim radical movement of the 1990s, but he clearly was being groomed now as a possible successor to Mubarak and his crowd-control expertise would now be used not against al-Qaeda affiliates but against Egyptian civil society.

"4. Mubarak mobilized the army to keep a semblance of order, but failed to convince the regular army officers to intervene against the protesters, with army chief of staff Sami Anan announcing late Monday that he would not order the troops to use force against the demonstrators."

"5. When the protests continued Tuesday, Mubarak came on television and announced that he would not run for yet another term and would step down in September.

"His refusal to step down immediately and his other maneuvers indicated his determination, and probably that of a significant section of the officer corps, to maintain the military dictatorship in Egypt, but to attempt to placate the public with an offer to switch out one dictator for a new one (Omar Suleiman, likely).

"6. When this pledge of transition to a new military dictator did not, predictably enough, placate the public either, Mubarak on Wednesday sent several thousand secret police and paid enforcers in civilian clothing into Tahrir Square to attack the protesters with stones, knouts, and molotov cocktails, in hopes of transforming a sympathetic peaceful crowd into a menacing violent mob.

"This strategy is similar to the one used in summer of 2009 by Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to raise the cost of protesting in the streets of Tehran, when they sent in basij (volunteer pro-regime militias).

"Used consistently and brutally, this show of force can raise the cost of urban protesting and gradually thin out the crowds.

"Note that this step number 6 required that the army agree to remain neutral and not to actively protect the crowds. The secret police goons were allowed through army checkpoints with their staves, and some even rode through on horses and camels.

"Aljazeera English’s correspondent suggests that the military was willing to allow the protests to the point where Mubarak would agree to stand down, but the army wants the crowd to accept that concession and go home now."

 

[georgephillip]

"The US government has long corrupted Arab governments by paying rulers installed by the US to represent US/Israeli interests rather than the interest of Arab peoples.

"Arabs put up with American-financed oppression for many years, but now are showing signs of rebellion.

"The murderous American-installed dictator in Tunis was overthrown by people taking to the streets. Rebellion has spread to Egypt and there are also street protests against the US-supported rulers in Yemen and Jordan.

"These uprisings might succeed in ousting puppet rulers, but will the result be anything more than the exchange of a new American puppet ruler for the old?

"Mubarak might go, but whoever takes his place is likely to find himself wearing the same American harness."

The author of this article makes a pretty convincing argument it will be the demise of the US dollar that ultimately decides who goes and who stays in the Middle East.

Mubarak already passed the baton to one of his cronies, intelligence director Omar Suleiman. Mubarak will stay in office until they have the next fake election, and the cronies will stay in power.

Unless the people keep up the heat there will be no change in Egyptian politics.

Who do you have in mind to lead Egypt?

Shouldn't that question be decided by Egyptians?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Well, there goes the party..

Chaos in Cairo as Mubarak backers, opponents clash
By HADEEL AL-SHALCHI and SARAH EL DEEB - Feb 2, 2011 9:09 AM ET By The Associated Press

.CAIRO (AP) — Several thousand supporters of President Hosni Mubarak, including some riding horses and camels and wielding whips, attacked anti-government protesters Wednesday as Egypt's upheaval took a dangerous new turn. In chaotic scenes, the two sides pelted each other with stones, and protesters dragged attackers off their horses.
EU urges Mubarak to respond quicky to protests - Bloomberg

Was hoping for a different outcome..but not surprised.

Did we forget about these people?

Iranian-Dutch citizen, mother of two, hanged today in Iran for protesting Iranian election results in 2009
Iranian-Dutch citizen, mother of two, hanged today in Iran for protesting Iranian election results in 2009 Bare Naked Islam's Weblog

 

[LibocalypseNow]

So the Middle East is fucked up. Hardly news to me. Arabs are very ignorant & irrational for the most part. I don't see any good coming from the Egyptian & Tunisian uprisings. It is very likely the radical Islamists will eventually seize power in both nations. So i wouldn't begin those celebrations just yet. Arabs are not known for their civility & common sense. Things are fucked up in the Middle East and i suspect they'll stay that way. Much ado about nothing in my opinion.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4y3XB3j9p0&feature=feedu[/ame]

 

[georgephillip]

Iraqis will be truly independent when the US troops leave at the end of the year, Mubarak took a billion a year to help his Military and keep the peace with Israel, whats wrong with that?

Mubarak is another in a long line of loathsome dictators we've propped up to ensure the survival of a "Jewish Democracy" that was originally designed to destabilize the Middle East.

Arms sales and oil sales?

oh for god sakes...

Would you agree?

"In a pattern growing out of what (ML) King called Washington's 'irrational, obsessive anti-communism,' US foreign policy also backed extreme Islamists over secular movements or government that were either Soviet-allied or feared to be.

"In Afghanistan, beginning BEFORE the Soviet invasion and evolving into the biggest CIA covert operation of the 1980s, the US armed and trained native mujahedeen fighters - some of whom went on to form the Taliban.

"To aid the mujahedeen, the US recruited and brought to Afghanistan religious fanatics from the Arab world - some of whom went on to form Al Qaeda. (Like these Washington geniuses, Israeli intelligence - in a divide-and-conquer scheme aimed at combating secular leftist Palestinians - covertly funded Islamist militants in the occupied territories who we now know as Hamas.)

"This is hardly obscure history."

"Except in US mainstream media."

Fear Extreme...

 

[Sallow]

Mubarak already passed the baton to one of his cronies, intelligence director Omar Suleiman. Mubarak will stay in office until they have the next fake election, and the cronies will stay in power.

Unless the people keep up the heat there will be no change in Egyptian politics.

He's probably hoping for the Iranian outcome.

Juan Cole has a similar line of thought:

"People worrying about Egypt becoming like Iran (scroll down) should worry about Egypt already being way too much like Iran as it is.

"That is, Hillary Clinton and others expressed anxiety in public about increasing militarization of the Iranian regime and use of military and paramilitaries to repress popular protests.

"But Egypt is far more militarized and now is using exactly the same tactics."

Seriously..it doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to figure that out.

But it would probably help to have one around..

 

[georgephillip]

Instead of Hillary?

 

[LordBrownTrout]

It's like watching savages over there.

 

[High_Gravity]

I have a feeling Mubarak is going to look like a choir boy compared to the next guy that runs that country.

 

[georgephillip]

"It should be remembered that Egypt’s elite of multi-millionaires has benefited enormously from its set of corrupt bargains with the US and Israel and from the maintenance of a martial law regime that deflects labor demands and pesky human rights critiques.

"It is no wonder that to defend his billions and those of his cronies, Hosni Mubarak was perfectly willing to order thousands of his security thugs into the Tahrir Square to beat up and expel the demonstrators, leaving 7 dead and over 800 wounded, 200 of them just on Thursday morning."

Mubarak Defies...