Most importantly we need to create jobs, increasing taxes helps attain that how?

[Neotrotsky]

Capital gain taxes went down during Clinton..

Just image how better we would have been, if we raised them too

 

[editec]

Please explain to me how raising taxes is going to help create jobs.

I can explain the economic THEORY to you if you'd like.

Is it worth my time to do so, or is your mind already made up such that - no matter what the theory says, and no matter what past history has shown us, you'll think that the theory has no validity?

Here's a clue though...the whole theory of Kenysian response in a capitalistic economy is the theory of PRIMING THE PUMP

INCIDENTLY, THE WHOLE THOERY BEHIND supply side ECONOMIC RESPONSES (YOU KNOW THE ONE THAT KEEPS DEMANDING MORE TAX BREAKS FOR BILLIONSAIRES) IS ALSO A THEORY ABOUT PRIMING THE PUMP.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Please explain to me how raising taxes is going to help create jobs.

I can explain the economic THEORY to you if you'd like.

Is it worth my time to do so, or is your mind already made up such that - no matter what the theory says, and no matter what past history has shown us, you'll think that the theory has no validity?

Here's a clue though...the whole theory of Kenysian response in a capitalistic economy is the theory of PRIMING THE PUMP

INCIDENTLY, THE WHOLE THOERY BEHIND supply side ECONOMIC RESPONSES (YOU KNOW THE ONE THAT KEEPS DEMANDING MORE TAX BREAKS FOR BILLIONSAIRES) IS ALSO A THEORY ABOUT PRIMING THE PUMP.

So Keynes would have said "raise taxes" during a Depression to create jobs?

Most Keynesians see Hoover's June 1932 tax increase as making the Depression worse and would advise tax cuts and/or deficit spending instead.
Indeed, since the Deficit spending is not working too well for us, it may be time to try something else.

Does not Keynesian economics advocate gov't t deficit spending and/or tax cuts (fiscal policy) and lower interest rates (monetary policy) to inflate demand and allow productive segments of the economy to increase ?

or , it recommends tax increases and spending cuts during economic expansion in order to combat inflation?

Of course, these and the other are theories. The theory's inability to explain stagflation in the 1970's was a bit of trouble.

 

[editec]

Please explain to me how raising taxes is going to help create jobs.

I can explain the economic THEORY to you if you'd like.

Is it worth my time to do so, or is your mind already made up such that - no matter what the theory says, and no matter what past history has shown us, you'll think that the theory has no validity?

Here's a clue though...the whole theory of Kenysian response in a capitalistic economy is the theory of PRIMING THE PUMP

INCIDENTLY, THE WHOLE THOERY BEHIND supply side ECONOMIC RESPONSES (YOU KNOW THE ONE THAT KEEPS DEMANDING MORE TAX BREAKS FOR BILLIONSAIRES) IS ALSO A THEORY ABOUT PRIMING THE PUMP.

So Keynes would have said "raise taxes" during a Depression to create jobs?

I didn't say that. Why do you ask?

Most Keynesians see Hoover's June 1932 tax increase as making the Depression worse and would advise tax cuts and/or deficit spending instead.

Yes, I think they're right.

Does not Keynesian economics advocate gov't t deficit spending and/or tax cuts (fiscal policy) and lower interest rates (monetary policy) to inflate demand and allow productive segments of the economy to increase ?

I don't think that Keynesian theory supports tax increases at this time, no.

It does support deficiet spending in circumstances like we find ourselves in now, though.

or , it recommends tax increases and spending cuts during economic expansion in order to combat inflation?

Yes I think it might.

Here's the thing...Keynesian economic policy isn't based on an all or nothing response. It presumes that different conditions require different responses.

[qyote]Of course, these and the other are theories. The theory's inability to explain stagflation in the 1970's was a bit of trouble.

Stagflation was the combined result of very rapid increases in the cost of oil, the end of spending on the viet Nam war, the aggregating pernicious effects of stupid trade policies, and foolish monetary policies, too.

Keynesain responses under those circumstances would have been foolish.

And given that no Keynesian responses were done, I'm not entirely sure why you brought that economic event up.

What we did then, to deal with inflation was exactly the opposite of Keynesian ecoomic response.

We tighten UP the money supply, exactly as we needed to do.

Of course, the people who paid for this economic response were the people who lost their jobs.

But that slowdown in the economy, also slowly but surely slowed down the rate of inflation.

After inflation was crushed and we needed to put people back to work, then a SUPPLY SIDE response was in order.

And the FED loosened up the COST of borrowing.

But the problem (or at least part of the problem) is that the FED continued to keep the cost of borrowing too low for too long.

Hence the run up in the cost of real estate/


Ya get it?

There is no single way to keep this economy strong.

Sometimes you loosen up on it, sometimes you ratchet it down.

Its about maintaining BALANCE.

 

[Neotrotsky]

I asked because of your prior post, I was not sure of your point to poster.


Technically, deficit spending can be made up of tax cuts and/or borrowings.
It be hard for one to argue that the current round of deficit spending is working. At best the monies were misapplied due to political reasons and had no real economic impact.
Due in large part to Papa Obama's inexperience, he allowed the Democrats in Congress to take the lead on the whole Pork bill.
Rookie mistake- they are self serving politicians first and Democrats second

One could make the argument that had those monies been properly applied, it could have had more impact, in the short-run.
Though, I would argue that the same monies released through tax breaks for everyone (even the evil rich) would have more and better impact.

The current poor economic state is only part of the problem and short run. Because of years and years of poor leadership from both parties, we as a gov't are now reaching a critical mass where the "luxury" of spending or doing whatever we want in the short run, is gone. Indeed, current fiscal policy NOW and for the next several generations, will have to deal with and be limited by the reality of what we have created. ie we have serious long term issues

Sustained and real economic growth in the long run would be the best solution. Even Keynes called for his policies to be temporary solutions, not long term planning. Gov't can not create wealth, it can only move it around.

This will require hard choices, however, by the American people and politicians.
Short run solutions to long run problems will not work.

We are, my friend, more away from what any one tax increase/decrease or deficit spending program can really fix in the long run.

Sadly, the party is over or in the words of Papa Obama's pastor of 20 years,
the "chickens are coming home to roost"

 

[NYcarbineer]

Well your idea about roads and bridges creating jobs is a myth imo. I live in KC. It has a large population with high unemployment. We have major road and bridge projects going on every year including before the downturn. Those projects have had 0 impact on our unemployed.

As far as corporations sitting on money your right. But why? Could it be the fear of the massive regulations? Could it be fear that obamas policies are going to have negative impacts on the economy as a whole?

I'll give you one example of jobs lost because of fear.... I am willing and able to buy another company truck. It's about a 50k investment. I have the money but am scared to death to spend it because I don't feel confident that I will have enough work through the next year to justify the investment.

Now do you consider me one of those evil and greedy business men?

You did not answer my question.

What is more important, that American children get an education, that our people get healthcare, the roads and bridges get fixed, that advanced materials research be done, the our military be supplied with the best equipment, that old people be taken care of, the our debt be paid down, that food and water be safe, that our environment be clean, OR THAT THE KOCH BROTHERS GET A NEW YACHT???

The children get more money thrown at them every year and its had 0 results. Want education fixed get the unions out. I already addressed your roads illusion. R&d is a good thing if you can afford it, can we?

Now address my situation

Can we afford to spend more on the military practically than the rest of the world combined? Who decided that was a good idea? Can we defend South Korea, and Japan, and western Europe for free? Why do you support that? Can we fight wars without raising taxes to pay for them? When did you decide that was a good idea?

 

[Urkie]

There is a huge disproportion in income in this country right now. All the money is at the top and people who want to get a piece of it can't.

What we need is to create a more competitive environment by allowing small businesses to compete with the larger ones. If you're going to give all the breaks to huge corporations then the little guy can't compete with that. That is one of the major reasons why closing loopholes or raising taxes on them is necessary. Because if that were to happen then a lot of jobs would be created due to the fact that more small businesses would actually be able to stay in business.

How would a tax increase produce a single job?

It would allow small businesses to compete. There are a lot of companies in this country that are "too big to fail" and that needs to change. Capitalism can't succeed with a bunch of huge corporations that control all the wealth in the country. If you look at the income inequality in this country right now, that is pretty good proof that I'm right.

 

[Sactowndog]

Please explain to me how raising taxes is going to help create jobs.

Easing taxes and regulations can help to create jobs which in turn will broaden the tax base which will increase revenue.

So again explain the path from raising taxes to jobs for me please.

We have the lowest taxes in 60 years at least and it's not creating jobs.

Carbineer-

We have the highest marginal tax rate on corporate income in the world and a record low capital gains rate.

I would argue for US jobs we have this backwards...

High Marginal Corporate tax rates only hurt small businesses who can't find the exemptions or buy Congress to create them for them. It prevents them from using their own capital to grow. We need to lower or better yet eliminate Corporate Income taxes to spur growth.

Low Capital gains taxes on feeds the mega companies who increase earnings by playing labor arbitrage to the limit. With low captial gains rates they can more easily acquire target companies and off-shore their US based labor. We need to raise capital gains taxes to help keep the job growth in the US.

 

[Sactowndog]

yes...in writing that looks obvious.
No one is denying that.

However, redistribution of wealth is NOT an American ideal...taking from someone becuase we decided they dont need that much is just not what we are made of.

Look...I would love it if they were to give it to me.....I certainly can use it a lot more than they can....seeing as they have more than they can handle for sure.

But to forcibly take it from them? It is just not what America is supposed to be all about.

So please...stop with the "obvious"...and instead debate the reality....are we ready, as a nation, to start choosing "who we take from to solve our problems" without their consent?

Actually you are wrong. Enough redistribution of wealth to insure all have an equal opportunity to succeed is the American Ideal and has been for centuries.

No redistribution of wealth is a facist ideal not an American ideal.

Redistrubution of wealth to attempt to guaranteee equal results is the socialist ideal and is equally wrong as no redistribution of wealth at all.

 

[MikeFrank]

Increasing taxes doesn't create jobs other than government jobs which do nothing for the economy, lowering taxes allows businesses to create jobs. we need to cut spending not raise taxes.

400 people are sitting on HALF THE WEALTH in this country.

What is more important, that American children get an education, that our people get healthcare, that roads and bridges get fixed, that advanced materials research be done, that our military be supplied with the best equipment, that old people be taken care of, that our debt be paid down, that food and water be safe, that our environment be clean, OR THAT THE KOCH BROTHERS GET A NEW YACHT???

Chris, you really don't understand how things work at all. Guess how many companies have gone overseas because of the last tax increase? Do you know where the largest General motors plant is? It isn't in america pal. Increased taxes and regulation stop business growth, the capital gains tax stops money from even coming back to this country because people get taxed twice, this isn't about 3% man get real, it will kill small businesses not big businesses, any business that makes over $200,000 a year will likely have to downsize, another word for (fire people) just to stay in business. As I said we don;t have a tax problem, we have a givernment spending problem.

 

[Sactowndog]

Please explain to me how raising taxes is going to help create jobs.

Easing taxes and regulations can help to create jobs which in turn will broaden the tax base which will increase revenue.

So again explain the path from raising taxes to jobs for me please.

One very positive way is the way both FDR and Eisenhower did it, which is by creating necessary make-work projects, such as the CCC (Civilian Construction Corps - per FDR), by infrastructure repair and expansion and by highway construction (Eisenhower). These projects created millions of jobs, which fostered and expanded many vibrant industries and in turn generated income tax revenue from the newly employed workers.

Robber Barons.

It is not going to help if the companies we fund shift the jobs overseas.

This isn't the 20's. The problem is a structural one that we haven't addressed because the ability to send jobs overseas has never existed before like it does know. In the 80's an overseas phone call cost 25 cents a minute now it is a fraction of a penny. Looking to the past won't help on this issue. That includes FDR and Reagan.

Hell Obama has tried both simultaneously and both have failed. We need a completely new strategy tailored for global reality.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Increasing taxes doesn't create jobs other than government jobs which do nothing for the economy, lowering taxes allows businesses to create jobs. we need to cut spending not raise taxes.

400 people are sitting on HALF THE WEALTH in this country.

What is more important, that American children get an education, that our people get healthcare, that roads and bridges get fixed, that advanced materials research be done, that our military be supplied with the best equipment, that old people be taken care of, that our debt be paid down, that food and water be safe, that our environment be clean, OR THAT THE KOCH BROTHERS GET A NEW YACHT???

Chris, you really don't understand how things work at all. Guess how many companies have gone overseas because of the last tax increase? Do you know where the largest General motors plant is? It isn't in america pal. Increased taxes and regulation stop business growth, the capital gains tax stops money from even coming back to this country because people get taxed twice, this isn't about 3% man get real, it will kill small businesses not big businesses, any business that makes over $200,000 a year will likely have to downsize, another word for (fire people) just to stay in business. As I said we don;t have a tax problem, we have a givernment spending problem.

Clinton cut capital gains tax

 

[Sactowndog]

Please explain to me how raising taxes is going to help create jobs.

Here's a clue though...the whole theory of Kenysian response in a capitalistic economy is the theory of PRIMING THE PUMP

INCIDENTLY, THE WHOLE THOERY BEHIND supply side ECONOMIC RESPONSES (YOU KNOW THE ONE THAT KEEPS DEMANDING MORE TAX BREAKS FOR BILLIONSAIRES) IS ALSO A THEORY ABOUT PRIMING THE PUMP.

And the problem is that both theories rely on the assumption that jobs come in the same local as where the investment occurs and that reality is no longer true. Companies take the investment in either case and shift it to where people are employed.

Obama is the first President to try both Keynesian and Supply Side theory simultaneously and all that has happened is the deficit has exploded. Neither theory works in today's international system.

We have to quit arguing about the past and find a new theory that works in today international market.

 

[Sactowndog]

Increased taxes and regulation stop business growth, the capital gains tax stops money from even coming back to this country because people get taxed twice.

Sorry you are wrong. It is Corporate income taxes that keep the money from coming back into the country because if they bring it back in they have to pay income tax on it.

We should have a net capital tax that incourages business to bring capital in and discourages them from sending it out.

 

[Truthmatters]

Please explain to me how raising taxes is going to help create jobs.

Easing taxes and regulations can help to create jobs which in turn will broaden the tax base which will increase revenue.

So again explain the path from raising taxes to jobs for me please.

What does the governmnet then do with the money they recieve in revenue?


They spend it into the economy.

What have the wealthy been doing with their cash.


Sitting on it.

Giving them MORE tax breaks gives them more money to sit on.

Money that they sit on does not stimulate anything

 

[Sactowndog]

Clinton cut capital gains tax

Yep and Capital was still local then as the transoceanic fiber optic cables had not been laid and Foreign capital markets were still developing.

 

[Jarhead]

Please explain to me how raising taxes is going to help create jobs.

Easing taxes and regulations can help to create jobs which in turn will broaden the tax base which will increase revenue.

So again explain the path from raising taxes to jobs for me please.

What does the governmnet then do with the money they recieve in revenue?


They spend it into the economy.

What have the wealthy been doing with their cash.


Sitting on it.

Giving them MORE tax breaks gives them more money to sit on.

Money that they sit on does not stimulate anything

the money they "sit" on came from doing something....and more often than not it comes from running a business that is stimulating the economy.

You really need to stop thinking of wealthy people sitting in their reading rooms drinking brandy and doing nothing at all but talking about the little people.
That takes place in cartoons.

 

[Truthmatters]

So then why have the Bush taxs cuts for the wealthy not produced the jobs they claimed would be produced?

We have been doing them for a decade and still they dont seem to create any jobs.


When will you give up on something that has failed for ten years already?

 

[Jarhead]

Please explain to me how raising taxes is going to help create jobs.

Easing taxes and regulations can help to create jobs which in turn will broaden the tax base which will increase revenue.

So again explain the path from raising taxes to jobs for me please.

One very positive way is the way both FDR and Eisenhower did it, which is by creating necessary make-work projects, such as the CCC (Civilian Construction Corps - per FDR), by infrastructure repair and expansion and by highway construction (Eisenhower). These projects created millions of jobs, which fostered and expanded many vibrant industries and in turn generated income tax revenue from the newly employed workers.

Robber Barons.

It is not going to help if the companies we fund shift the jobs overseas.

This isn't the 20's. The problem is a structural one that we haven't addressed because the ability to send jobs overseas has never existed before like it does know. In the 80's an overseas phone call cost 25 cents a minute now it is a fraction of a penny. Looking to the past won't help on this issue. That includes FDR and Reagan.

Hell Obama has tried both simultaneously and both have failed. We need a completely new strategy tailored for global reality.

Global reality.....what would unemployment be at if Sony was not here...and Toyota....and Nissan....and hundreds, if not thousands of foreign companies that have manufacturing taking place in OUR country as we do in theirs.

It is a dangerous line to walk when talking about forcing all US companies to employ only those in the USA.....it may likely be a wash from an employment standpoint...not to mention what it may do to US sales overseas.

 

[Jarhead]

So then why have the Bush taxs cuts for the wealthy not produced the jobs they claimed would be produced?

We have been doing them for a decade and still they dont seem to create any jobs.


When will you give up on something that has failed for ten years already?

You see...your problem is you take stats that are offered to you without investigating them.

Truth is...during the 2000's, the emplyment percentages should have been down.
For the following reason:

We had the technology revolution...
1) Boolean searches replaced research departments of dozens
2) VOice Mail and auto response replaced receptionsists
3) dial response replaced customer service people
4) email resulted in the need of mailrooms 1/3 the size they were
5) Computer graphics replaced manual graphics departments
5) CNC replaced the need for manual machinists

Not to mention that we had an increase in the working population

Yet.....the percentage of unemployed never increased until the recession

So underrstand the data before you spew crap about it.

Plenty of jobs were created as technology eliminated many other jobs