Moscow saboteurs dumped kilograms of metal shavings into the propulsion system of a brand new German NATO warship. Sabotage is an act of war
- Thread starter Litwin
- Start date
Litwin
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- #22
Many people don't grasp the strategic Oil - game that Trump, like Reagan, is playing against putin´s Moscow
empire. Trump signals a possible end to Iran 
sanctions. Oil prices could fall—temporarily. REALLY BAD NEWS FOR MOSCOW empire !and
Ukraine is pushing the G7 to cut the putin
oil price cap to $30luiza
Diamond Member
When will that be ready ?
In ten years ?
Never ?
And like Reagan and Evil Nazi Nutty, their systems will not work .
I see the Iron Dome is leaking like a sieve as the Houthi Boys have shown again today .
Mushroom
Gold Member
Which has not a damned thing to do with Germany. So once again you simply spin off in a completely different direction and do not actually address the very topic you yourself brought up in the first place.
Failzero
Diamond Member
This !
Litwin
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- #26
Moscow horde attacks the ENTIRE Free World 24/7. Do we agree on this?
“Hybrid war” is really just “war”...Timothy Snyder: "The West Needs To Abandon The Fantasy That There's Anything We Can Say Or Do To "Make Moscow empire Normal"
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...ook_odd_and_scary_but_we_cant_control_it.html
empire Normal" https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...ook_odd_and_scary_but_we_cant_control_it.html
Mushroom
Gold Member
It's still under construction. In other words, it is not yet commissioned or part of the German Navy.
And civilian dockyards have much lower security than what is found on naval bases.
Mushroom
Gold Member
I agree that you ramble and bounce all over the place.
Are you ever able to actually stick to one topic, and not turn every thread into senseless ramblings?
Missiles with the range more than 300 km demands direct support of NATO intelligence and crews. And the difference between facilitation and participation (however arbitrary) lays here. One thing when Soviet missile, launched by Soviet crew shoot down American plane in the skies of Vietnam, and another thing, is when Soviet missile, launched by Soviet crew from a ship under the flag of North Vietnam (but without a single Vietnamese on board), hit an American depot on American soil.
Russian Federation defended sovereign and independent (in time) Republics of Donbass invaded by Ukraine. Of course, Russian Federation, Donbass Republics, Belarus and Ukraine are parts of Russia.
And no, NATO countries just hired local Ukrainian criminals to overthrone Ukraine's legal goverment and start systematic discrimination and genocide of Russian people.
He announced a lot of things. Most of them are plain lies. But even if you get a capability to fight conventional ballistic warheads, you'll still not have capability to fight, say, gigaton-class strategic torpedoes (like Poseidon). What is even more important - Russia still have upper hand in ABD and is developing it. And, given the number of ethnic Chinamen and Indians in American military R&D organisations, Russia will have all blueprints earlier than American manufacturers.
kyzr
Diamond Member
All missiles are fired from Ukraine by well trained Ukrainians.
None of that is true. Ukraine's boundaries are well established. Russia is invading a sovereign country, which is why NATO is helping them defend themselves.
No doubt Russia's Status-6 (Kanyon) nuclear torpedo is a scary weapon.
Poseidon (unmanned underwater vehicle) - Wikipedia
I hope you are wrong about US defense manufacturers being infested by Chinese and Indian spies. That's why we have a strict "security clearance" system. Having an "arms race" over defensive systems isn't as scary as an offensive weapons race, unless you look at the "use them or lose them" calculation. I know you say Russia's economy is just fine, but we see an economy the size of Netherlands, not capable of funding long wars and expensive weapons development, or even nuclear weapons maintenance.
Litwin
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- #32
I am not 'rambling and bouncing all over the place. What I see is that you can't handle the reality. We are at war with Moscow
imperialism, whether you like it or not.
Europe must adopt ‘wartime mindset’ to stop Putin, says Nato chief
Russian president wants to ‘wipe Ukraine off the map’ and could target other European countries next, says Mark Rutte
www.theguardian.com
any questions ? still, its just about Ukraine ?
www.nbcnews.com
the only way to go :
As U.S. and Putin negotiate, intel shows he's not interested 'in a real peace deal,' sources say
Intelligence suggests Russian President Vladimir Putin is going through the motions and still thinks he can eventually control all of Ukraine, the sources told NBC News.
www.nbcnews.com
the only way to go :
Yes, sure. And Los Angeles blocks were burn down by well trained Americans.
They were well established until people of Crimea and Donbass declared independence.
Plain lie. NATO is not interested in the keeping international law, which became perfectly clear after their illegal and unprovoked aggressions against Serbia, Iraq and Syria. They are not interested in the defending human rights, too - for they were cheering Odessa massacre and open discrimination of ethnic Russians, Russian-speakers and Ukrainian Orthodox Chuch laymen in Ukraine.
What they are interested in - is just murders of Russian people.
Not scary enough, if you still continue to mumble nonsense about "defeating Russia". Looks like you need something more .... visible.No doubt Russia's Status-6 (Kanyon) nuclear torpedo is a scary weapon.
Poseidon (unmanned underwater vehicle) - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
I'm not wrong. And your decision-makers know it, too...
Best defense is good offense. And best offense, of course, demands good defence. Sword and shield work together.
You "see"? Seriously? And where exactly do you see it? In TV-shows, that predicted collapse of the Russian economy in 2015 and in 2022?
kyzr
Diamond Member
Russia can have them, they are Russian speakers. Putin wasn't satisfied with just getting them, he wanted all of Ukraine because he knew that sooner or later Ukraine would join NATO for their own independence and mutual defense. Putin knows that Russia has nothing to fear from NATO. NATO is a defensive organization, like the EU is an economic one. Russia chose not to join the community of democracies, he prefers the company of brutal dictators, like Xi and Kim Jung Un.
We have a different perspective on Serbia...
The NATO bombing of Serbia occurred from March 24 to June 10, 1999, during the Kosovo War, aimed at stopping the ethnic cleansing of Kosovar Albanians. The campaign resulted in significant civilian casualties and damage to infrastructure, with estimates of civilian deaths ranging from 489 to 2,000.
...on Syria...
On 14 April 2018, beginning at 04:00 Syrian time, the United States, France, and the United Kingdom carried out a series of military strikes involving aircraft and ship-based missiles against multiple government sites in Syria during the Syrian Civil War. The strikes were a reprisal for the Douma chemical attack against civilians on 7 April, widely attributed to the Syrian government. The Syrian government called the airstrikes a violation of international law.
...and on Iraq...
The strikes were launched due to Iraq's failure to comply with United Nations Security Council resolutions and its interference with United Nations inspectors that were searching for potential weapons of mass destruction.
We are not interested in "defeating Russia". We just want to keep Russians in their borders. If Russia keeps invading its neighbors the sanctions will keep being tightened. Sooner or later Putin will need to decide how much economic pain is worth his bad behavior.
I hope not, we'll see over time.
True.
Yes In get most of my information from TV. I'm retired and have all day to watch the various channels, like Fox News, CNN, ABC, CNBC, and the rest. We get very different flavors of "news". I'll bet that Russians don't see any anti-Putin channels like our media is always against Trump.
All Ukrainians are Russian speakers, for Ukrainian is, de facto, an artificial dialect of Russian. But even if we count Ukrainian as "non-Russian language" - say, in Kiev or Odessa for more than 80% of population first language is [proper] Russian.
And, of course, the question is about protection of the basic human rights of all Russians in all Ukrainian regions.
Yep. Actually, the question is not about territory. The question is about NATO expansion, about militarisation of Eastern Europe and deconstruction of the global system of safety.
Plain lie. NATO is anything but "defensive organisation".
Of course NATO countries has nothing to do with "democracy" (in most of meaningful senses)
There are only two possible legal reasons to use military force against another country - self-defense and permission of UN SC.
They did it without permission of SC UN and they weren't attacked by Serbians. Therefore it wasn't neither self-defense, nor SC UN-ordered intervention. Therefore it was illegal and unprovoked aggression, whatever you TV liars told you.
Syrian government didn't use "chemical weapons" against the USA. (Actually they didn't use them at all). So, it wasn't self-defense. UN SC didn't allowed those strikes, either. So, it was illegal and unprovoked aggression. For short - it's not your freaking business what a legal government do on its own territory.
No. Three (out of five) UN SC members (Russia, China and France) voted against this usage of force.
If you were interested in keeping Russian in our borders - you should haven't start NATO expansion and discrimination of Russians in the first place.
Nobody cares. International trade isn't charity. Your sanctions more harm you than us.
Putin was born in Leningrad, you know. And during Leningrad blockade people here had food rationing 200 grams of bread
I'm Russian and I occasionally watch them. (While I prefer reading). Actually, one of my goals here is to have access to alternative news.
kyzr
Diamond Member
You are confusing ethnicity with citizenship. Countries have borders, within those borders are generally several ethnicities. Those citizens do not give other countries any rights to invade. A better solution is the UN so several countries could protect those being persecuted like in Syria or Serbia. Putin used "Russian speakers" as a "pretext" for invasion, when he had no justification.
NATO is not expanding by conquest, but by invitation and request, an elite club. Countries feel safe belonging with other democracies instead of being ruled by criminal dictatorships.
NATO is defensive. It protects people from evil dictators.
As compared to Putin, Xi, and Kim Jung Un? All NATO countries are democracies. Russia is a criminal dictatorship.
I gave you reasons why NATO attacked Iraq, Syria, and Serbia. To protect the populace from evil dictators. The UN is worthless.
It was to stop the ethnic cleansing slaughter. The UN is worthless.
We disagree. The UN is worthless.
NATO doesn't "expand", it accepts requests from free democracies to join, usually for protection from invasion by Russia.
Putin wasn't born then, he is used to the life of a billionaire.
Alternative news, aka "propaganda" is enraging, I yell at the TV when they lie, obvious "one-sided" lies, and subtle lies. The best news is when there is a debate format and both sides can present their perspectives with data and rationale'.
But declaration of independence - give us the right to recognise them, sign alliance with them and defend them with military force.
We have justification - we recognised independence of Crimea, DPR and LPR and then recognised their free choice to join Russia.
So is Russia.
Exactly. Russian (and not only Russian) people see themselves safer being a part of Russian Federation instead of being ruled by the western criminal dictatorship.
Of course not. NATO is a criminal organisation, supporting official discrimination and genocide of certain ethnic and religious groups.
Of course not. Quite opposite, most of NATO countries are criminal dictatorships, and Russia is a true democracy.
UN was the most important part of post-WWII world. It wasn't created to make heaven, it was create to prevent hell. You said "No more Munich, no more Yalta", you destroyed post-WWII world order, so, you've started the new, pre-WWIII world order. Actually, you made WWIII practically inevitable.
Ok. Russia "invaded" Ukraine to stop ethnic cleansing slaughter. And, belive me, there are a lot of NATO countries in the queue for denazification.
No problem. It means that you just declared WWIII. And what is more important - you can't win it.
So do Russia, defending people from evil invasion of NATO countries and their proxies.
Putin never was a billionaire. Money are dust. And the story about Leningrad was told just to illustrate simple idea - You don't need money if the western barbarians have killed you.
No offence, but it doesn't look like as you are accustomed to "rational debates".
kyzr
Diamond Member
We'd call that a "secession", when parts of a country want their independence. DPR & LPR and Crimea went from being Ukrainian to Russian since 2014. That went fine. But then Putin got greedy and invaded to capture Kiev and got repelled by the Ukrainian military, 3-years later the expensive war continues.
This is a major point of disagreement. Western democracies are not criminal, Putin's dictatorship is.
see prior answer
We see the UN as shit-hole countries trying to play God with no resources but the wealthier countries'.
A false pretext for invasion. Russia is too weak to invade a NATO country.
So you say.
NATO doesn't invade countries to capture them, countries ask to join NATO.
NATO militaries stay in their own countries, unless there is a war.
I like the movie "Enemy at the Gates". That was a desperate struggle for survival in WW2, depicted in that museum video. Western barbarians? NATO countries are peaceful and cultured. Putin's allies XI and Kim Jung Un are brutal dictators. Russia could be part of the prosperous Western economies if it stopped invading and took a peace deal. Things will go from bad to worse as the sanctions get tightened even more.
I'm hurt. I thought we were debating rather calmly and rationally. We have serious disagreements as to actual facts, but we always agree to disagree peacefully. If we can keep avoiding WW3 until Putin retires the world has a better chance of surviving.
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Rejoin with Crimea went fine. But DPR&LPR were attacked by Ukraine.
And when Ukraine attacked DPR and LPR, allied of Russia, it was equal to attack against Russian Federation itself. So, Russian actions are simply collective self-defense.
From the Russian (and not only Russian) point of view, they are criminals. They violated international law (but unprovoked aggressions) and their internal laws (like, say, legalisation of MJ, homosexual "marriages" and cancelling the results of elections) looks like criminal.
And this point of view leads you directly into WWIII. Actully, "Global South" see "West" as guys trying to play God, with no mineral or military resources to support their claims. Ones and zeroes in bank computers, as well as the hordes of lawyers and prostitutes are not "resources".
And we know what we should do with those, who pretends to be the "master race".
Of course no. Russia can defeat the USA, and the whole NATO. It might be gambling and the price of victory might be terrible, but we have pretty good chances to do it.
There were no any referendums about joining NATO, as far as I know. Nobody asked people of those countries if they want to join NATO. And Russia alway ask people.
Plain lie.
Plain lie.
Non of your business.
Of course no. We would be in start officially discrimated and abused, and in the end - genocided. It were Western countries who started genocide of Russians.
For you - may be. Dedollarisation of the world economy will cause collapse of American economy. For Russia it is all pretty fine and getting better.
You can't imagine how am I hurt because of your denialism of the obvious facts.
Actually, no. You agreed that you can discriminate and kill Russians, not we.
Its not about Putin at all. Its not his personal project or something.
There is only one way to avoid WWIII:
In Ukraine: denazification, demilitarization and neutral status.
In Europe: creating the system of the equal safety and equal rights, return of NATO's military infrastructure back to 1997 borders, end of discrimination of Russians. Denuclearisation of France and the UK and well as division of Germany might be useful, as well.
In the world: end of Pax Americana, returning to multipolar world system.
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