Moscow saboteurs dumped kilograms of metal shavings into the propulsion system of a brand new German NATO warship. Sabotage is an act of war

[kyzr]

Indoctrination? Really? My Mom was born in Mariupol and my cousin still live there. In there opinion, Ukrainians are a kind of Russians. Like, say, Hillbillies or Rednecks are Americans. Of course, any government "indoctrinate" people. Washington, New York, Moscow, Kiev or Donetsk - they all have their own understanding of what indoctrination is necessary. But, the people in the South-East of Ukraine, in their every days life see, that the difference without difference is not a difference. There is no difference between Russian-speaking Ukrainian and Russian-speaking Russian, living in Ukraine. And, of course, the difference between "Russian" and "Ukrainian" speech is quite elusive. Like if you change most of vowels on "i" and change "i" on "y", it's not another "language", it is just accent. If you change normative words on another, also understandable, like "red" on "crymson" or "parents" on "dads" (as if every Ukrainian child has two fathers) - its funny, but it is not another language, it is a "dialect". When you have some borrowed foreign words like Tirkish "Maidan" instead of Polish "plosha" or Russian "ploshad" - it's also just a dialect, as like Russians in Far East instead slavic "stolovaya" or French/English "cafe" they say chifan'ka (from Chinese 吃饭 - to eat food).

Taking kids from their parents is a brutal form of indoctrination. Making Russians out of Ukrainian kids by force.

There is such thing as "the right of rebellion", if you see that your rights are violated and the government is discriminative, abusive and genocidal. Albanians in Kosovo has the right to declare independence and Russians in Donbass (and other regions of former Ukraine) has right to declare independence. And other countries has the right to recognise their independence.

Rebellions are tricky. A few Soviet states like Ukraine and Chechnya tried "independence", Ukraine has a war, Chechnya got crushed. Russia did not allow a separatist movement and crushed it, but you keep saying that separatists have "the right of rebellion". Your position depends which side of the fence, or "sphere of influence" you are on. Belarus took the coward's way out, and kissed Putin's ass. Might makes right, always.

Chechen–Russian conflict - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Actually, no. There is such thing as a "Law of falling tree". When the integrity of the trunk is degraded to the certain limit - the tree falls almost without efforts from lumberjack. Of course, in the western Ukraine, beyond Zbruch, where Russophoby is more or less mainstream, denazification will be much more messy things... Like, you know, to eliminate all true Democrats and Dem-supporters in California. But South-East and Central Ukraine is different. Its, you know, like eliminate all LGBT-activists in Texas

Hitler's "Final Solution". That's why NATO will keep supporting Ukraine. Just like they stopped Miloshevich's slaughter in Kosovo.

And if the oil prices are low - they don't drill oil.

True

Less of all, seems - Marines themselves. Their number is too small, and their potential enemies are too numerous.

Marines are very aggressive. No matter the numerical difference they would subdue the rioters, leaving a trail of broken bodies behind them. Simple fact.

 

[Zavulon]

Taking kids from their parents is a brutal form of indoctrination.

Do you mean school education? Looks like it is the reason why American school education sucks.

Making Russians out of Ukrainian kids by force.

Ukrainians are Russians. And making Americans out of Hillbillies and Rednecks is not bad (as for me).

Rebellions are tricky. A few Soviet states like Ukraine and Chechnya tried "independence", Ukraine has a war, Chechnya got crushed. Russia did not allow a separatist movement and crushed it, but you keep saying that separatists have "the right of rebellion".

Yep. They have the right for rebellion and the central power have the right to eliminate the separatists. Survival of the fittest.

Your position depends which side of the fence, or "sphere of influence" you are on. Belarus took the coward's way out, and kissed Putin's ass. Might makes right, always.

Chechen–Russian conflict - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As well as yours. During American Revolutionary War, separatists were "good", and during American civil war separatists were "bad"

Hitler's "Final Solution". That's why NATO will keep supporting Ukraine. Just like they stopped Miloshevich's slaughter in Kosovo.

There is the difference between Russia and Serbia. Russia can, and, looks like, will, eliminate NATO.

True

Marines are very aggressive. No matter the numerical difference they would subdue the rioters, leaving a trail of broken bodies behind them. Simple fact.

US marines have no a slightest idea of "aggressiveness". Actually, the only thing that can eliminate "aggressively" is burgers. One can say they are a bunch of sissies. And no, as far as know they still didn't kill even one rioter in LA.

 

[kyzr]

Do you mean school education? Looks like it is the reason why American school education sucks.

No I mean like in the link I sent.

Ukraine's missing children tracked down in Russia by digital sleuths

Investigators say they have found eight children, believed to have been abducted by Russia.

www.bbc.com

p.s. years ago someone said that to pass 3rd grade in Russia you needed to mate with a knight and bishop, true?

Ukrainians are Russians. And making Americans out of Hillbillies and Rednecks is not bad (as for me).

By definition Ukrainians are not Russians.

Yep. They have the right for rebellion and the central power have the right to eliminate the separatists. Survival of the fittest.

Might makes right. Remember that.

As well as yours. During American Revolutionary War, separatists were "good", and during American civil war separatists were "bad"

True. In both cases the stronger side won the war.

There is the difference between Russia and Serbia. Russia can, and, looks like, will, eliminate NATO.

Yawn. Khrushchev said that too, "we will bury you". Remember? ...and we buried the USSR, tick-tock.

US marines have no a slightest idea of "aggressiveness". Actually, the only thing that can eliminate "aggressively" is burgers. One can say they are a bunch of sissies. And no, as far as know they still didn't kill even one rioter in LA.

Wagner's mercenaries found out the hard way what happens when you oppose the US, you get dead.

The true story of the brutal four-hour battle between Russian mercenaries and US commandos in Syria

Up to 300 Russian and Syrian fighters killed in the attack

www.independent.co.uk

"In the end, 200 to 300 of the attacking fighters were killed. The others retreated under merciless air strikes from the US, returning later to retrieve their battlefield dead. None of the Americans at the small outpost in eastern Syria – about 40 by the end of the firefight – were harmed."

 

[Zavulon]

No I mean like in the link I sent.

Ukraine's missing children tracked down in Russia by digital sleuths

Investigators say they have found eight children, believed to have been abducted by Russia.

www.bbc.com

I failed to recognise what is the problem. There were people in danger, including children. Many of them were evacuated from the warzone. Those who want to leave - they can leave.

p.s. years ago someone said that to pass 3rd grade in Russia you needed to mate with a knight and bishop, true?

It's not.

By definition Ukrainians are not Russians.

Ukrainians are Russians as Hillbillies or Cajones are Americans. By definition. My mom was an Ukrainian and she was a Russian.

Might makes right. Remember that.

In pre-war world.

True. In both cases the stronger side won the war.

The question is not only in the military strength. The question is, first of all, in the moral side of the question. "Why do you need to have the independent state?"

Yawn. Khrushchev said that too, "we will bury you". Remember? ...and we buried the USSR, tick-tock.

No. You've buried the USA. And we dismantled the USSR, but saved Russia.

Wagner's mercenaries found out the hard way what happens when you oppose the US, you get dead.

And much more US mercenaries and regular soldiers/marines found out what happens when you oppose Russia.

The true story of the brutal four-hour battle between Russian mercenaries and US commandos in Syria

Up to 300 Russian and Syrian fighters killed in the attack

www.independent.co.uk

"In the end, 200 to 300 of the attacking fighters were killed. The others retreated under merciless air strikes from the US, returning later to retrieve their battlefield dead. None of the Americans at the small outpost in eastern Syria – about 40 by the end of the firefight – were harmed."

And when American mercenaries doesn't have air support and the regular Russian forces have - Americans are dead and no Russian is harmed. It have nothing to do with "aggresivness" or something.

Ok. There are at least two million illegal migrants in California. How many of them will be killed by the "aggressive burger eliminators" before Trump declared his Greatest Victory and f#ck off from California and with Mexican cum on his face? My bet - lesser than 1%, may be even lesser than 0,01%. Just a bunch of harmless clowns.

 

[kyzr]

I failed to recognise what is the problem. There were people in danger, including children. Many of them were evacuated from the warzone. Those who want to leave - they can leave.

Ok, it sounds like the Ukrainian families in DPR &LPR were broken up and deported, with kids being sent to Russia.
"The government in Kyiv estimates that at least 19,500 Ukrainian children have been deported and forcibly displaced from their homes to Russia and Russian-occupied territories since the full scale invasion began in February 2022, and of those only 388 have returned home."

Ukrainians are Russians as Hillbillies or Cajones are Americans. By definition. My mom was Ukrainian and she was a Russian.

There is a difference between ethnicity (DNA) and citizenship.

The question is not only in the military strength. The question is, first of all, in the moral side of the question. "Why do you need to have the independent state?"

The US Civil War was fought primarily over slavery. Southern farmers wanted to keep slavery, so they separated from the US. President Lincoln said "the union must be preserved". Ukraine doesn't want to be part of Russia, that should be their right as a sovereign state, but Putin is trying to extend Russia's "sphere of influence" using his military.

No. You've buried the USA. And we dismantled the USSR, but saved Russia.

The US is not buried, and the USSR is dead and gone. Russia is circling the drain with the unpopular war.

And much more US mercenaries and regular soldiers/marines found out what happens when you oppose Russia.

Where was this? In your imagination?

And when American mercenaries doesn't have air support and the regular Russian forces have - Americans are dead and no Russian is harmed. It have nothing to do with "aggressiveness" or something.

The US ALWAYS has air dominance.

Ok. There are at least two million illegal migrants in California. How many of them will be killed by the "aggressive burger eliminators" before Trump declared his Greatest Victory and f#ck off from California and with Mexican cum on his face? My bet - lesser than 1%, may be even lesser than 0,01%. Just a bunch of harmless clowns.

The Marines won't be deployed against rioters, the rioters are now peaceful protesters. They aren't stupid.
ICE is busy collecting illegals as people yell at them.

 

[Zavulon]

Ok, it sounds like the Ukrainian families in DPR &LPR were broken up and deported, with kids being sent to Russia.
"The government in Kyiv estimates that at least 19,500 Ukrainian children have been deported and forcibly displaced from their homes to Russia and Russian-occupied territories since the full scale invasion began in February 2022, and of those only 388 have returned home."

It is simple and obvious lie. During the recent negotiations in Istanbul, Ukrainians gave the list of 400 children, most of whom were in orphanages when the conflict escalated. If there are relatives and it is safe - children can be returned (and there already were some of that cases) via neutral states (like Turkey). And if there are no relatives - it is safer for them continue life in Russia.

There is a difference between ethnicity (DNA) and citizenship.

Ethnicity is not about DNA, it is more about self-identification. And no, when you kill a Jew for being a Jew in Germany - the Jews in America or Russia are upset (even if they all have different citizenships), too. You attack one of us - you attack all of us. What is also important, when DPR and LPR declared independence, people there refused Ukrainain citizenship and got citizenship of their Republics.

The US Civil War was fought primarily over slavery. Southern farmers wanted to keep slavery, so they separated from the US. President Lincoln said "the union must be preserved". Ukraine doesn't want to be part of Russia, that should be their right as a sovereign state, but Putin is trying to extend Russia's "sphere of influence" using his military.

South didn't want to be a part of the USA because they wanted to abuse, discriminate and exploit N#groes. It was immoral, and it made Confederacy immoral state (at least from the Northern point of view).
Same way, Ukraine don't want to be a part of Russia (or even Russia's "sphere of influence") because they want to abuse, discriminate and exploit local Russians, and what is even worse - they wanted to join an anti-Russian military alliance, to kill Russians in millions. It made Ukraine immoral state (at least from the Russian point of view).
DPR and LPR decided to secess from Ukraine and gain independence, because they wanted to build the state with equal rights for everyone (without abuse and discrimination), and because they didn't want to join anti-Russian military alliance. It made them morally right (at least from the Russian point of view).

The US is not buried, and the USSR is dead and gone. Russia is circling the drain with the unpopular war.

First of all, this war is quite popular in Russia, and second - the US all but buried. It is a rotten, poisonous, fetid, shabby carcass of the state, dangerous for everyone. Something like a zombie in Hollywood movies. No offence, but it will be better for everyone when it will be calmed down and burned down to ash.

Where was this? In your imagination?

Recently it was in Ukraine. But there were a lot of places in the world where Russians and Americans were fighting each other (informally, of course).

The US ALWAYS has air dominance.

Not if we are talking about mercenaries.

The Marines won't be deployed against rioters, the rioters are now peaceful protesters. They aren't stupid.
ICE is busy collecting illegals as people yell at them.

If two million of illegal migrants have been calmed down by less than thousand of Marines - it can only mean that the protesters were pretty peaceful from the very beginning. Just a stupid vegetarian show from both sides.

 

[kyzr]

It is simple and obvious lie. During the recent negotiations in Istanbul, Ukrainians gave the list of 400 children, most of whom were in orphanages when the conflict escalated. If there are relatives and it is safe - children can be returned (and there already were some of that cases) via neutral states (like Turkey). And if there are no relatives - it is safer for them continue life in Russia.

We feel sorry for the kids and families from a war zone.

Ethnicity is not about DNA, it is more about self-identification. And no, when you kill a Jew for being a Jew in Germany - the Jews in America or Russia are upset (even if they all have different citizenship), too. You attack one of us - you attack all of us. What is also important, when DPR and LPR declared independence, people there refused Ukrainian citizenship and got citizenship of their Republics.

Using that same logic, the Ukrainians outside of LPR & DPR refuse Russian citizenship and declared their independence.

South didn't want to be a part of the USA because they wanted to abuse, discriminate and exploit N#groes. It was immoral, and it made Confederacy immoral state (at least from the Northern point of view).
Same way, Ukraine don't want to be a part of Russia (or even Russia's "sphere of influence") because they want to abuse, discriminate and exploit local Russians, and what is even worse - they wanted to join an anti-Russian military alliance, to kill Russians in millions. It made Ukraine immoral state (at least from the Russian point of view).

Russia exploits Ukrainians in LPR & DPR. Majority rules. If ethnic Russians aren't happy in Ukraine, move to Russia.

DPR and LPR decided to secede from Ukraine and gain independence, because they wanted to build the state with equal rights for everyone (without abuse and discrimination), and because they didn't want to join anti-Russian military alliance. It made them morally right (at least from the Russian point of view).

Fine. That happened in 2014. There were no issues until Putin invaded and started the war.

First of all, this war is quite popular in Russia, and second - the US is all but buried. It is a rotten, poisonous, fetid, shabby carcass of the state, dangerous for everyone. Something like a zombie in Hollywood movies. No offence, but it will be better for everyone when it will be calmed down and burned down to ash.

We like the US better than any other country, warts and all.

Recently it was in Ukraine. But there were a lot of places in the world where Russians and Americans were fighting each other (informally, of course).

OK, if you say so.

Not if we are talking about mercenaries.

You said Russians have better air support than the US, I called bullshit.

If two million of illegal migrants have been calmed down by less than thousand of Marines - it can only mean that the protesters were pretty peaceful from the very beginning. Just a stupid vegetarian show from both sides.

There were a few thousand protesters and a few hundred rioters. Most of them knew the police wouldn't catch them, but knew the Marines would brutalize them. "Discretion is the better form of valor."

 

[Zavulon]

We feel sorry for the kids and families from a war zone.

You feel sorry. We save them. That's the difference.

Using that same logic, the Ukrainians outside of LPR & DPR refuse Russian citizenship and declared their independence.

Actually, no. Most of Ukrainians, even outside DPR and LPR (especially in Russian-speaking regions of Central and South-Easter Ukraine) do want to join Russia but can't do it because they were supressed (quite often - "brutally supressed", like in Odessa Massacre and in Kharkov & Dniepropetrovsk terror campaigns). When they have an opportunity to vote (as it was in Kherson and Zaporozhye oblasts) they voted for Russia.

Russia exploits Ukrainians in LPR & DPR. Majority rules. If ethnic Russians aren't happy in Ukraine, move to Russia.

Firstly, Ukrainians in Russian Federation have absolutely the same rights as all other citizens. Among other - Ukrainian is one of official languages in Crimea, Kherson and Zaporozhye. Secondly - the borders are closed and men can't leave Ukraine at all. Third - many of them already have done it, they just took their land, their houses and their property with them. Fourth - if Banderlogs (Ukrainian nationalists) can't live among Russians and adequate Ukrainians - they should move to Canada.

Fine. That happened in 2014. There were no issues until Putin invaded and started the war.

Of course, you are wrong. NATO declared intention to take Ukraine and Georgia in 2007.

We like the US better than any other country, warts and all.

You just never been to a better country.

You said Russians have better air support than the US, I called bullshit.

No. I said, that there were situations when Russian regular forces have better air and artillery support than US mercenaries.

There were a few thousand protesters and a few hundred rioters. Most of them knew the police wouldn't catch them, but knew the Marines would brutalize them. "Discretion is the better form of valor."

A few thousand protesters out of two million illegal immigrants? Looks like they just don't believe that Trump is serious (and they have pretty good reasons to do so). What the freaking clowns both sides are.

 

[kyzr]

You feel sorry. We save them. That's the difference.

They don't need saving, they belong with their families, not kidnapped and indoctrinated.

Actually, no. Most of Ukrainians, even outside DPR and LPR (especially in Russian-speaking regions of Central and South-Easter Ukraine) do want to join Russia but can't do it because they were suppressed (quite often - "brutally suppressed", like in Odessa Massacre and in Kharkov & Dniepropetrovsk terror campaigns). When they have an opportunity to vote (as it was in Kherson and Zaporozhye oblasts) they voted for Russia.

We disagree. If you were correct Russia's army would be welcomed instead of slaughtered as invaders.

Firstly, Ukrainians in Russian Federation have absolutely the same rights as all other citizens. Among other - Ukrainian is one of official languages in Crimea, Kherson and Zaporozhye. Secondly - the borders are closed and men can't leave Ukraine at all. Third - many of them already have done it, they just took their land, their houses and their property with them. Fourth - if Banderlogs (Ukrainian nationalists) can't live among Russians and adequate Ukrainians - they should move to Canada.

Ukrainians in Ukraine aren't the problem. Russia invading Ukraine is the problem.

Of course, you are wrong. NATO declared intention to take Ukraine and Georgia in 2007.

Got a link to prove that? If Ukraine and Georgia apply for membership to NATO that is not the same as NATO invading them to capture them, like Russia is trying to do in Ukraine.

You just never been to a better country.

Sure, freeloader countries that depend on the US for their military security have more money for social services.

Top 10 Best Countries To Live In 2026 - The Most 10 Of Everything

In recent years, the concept of the "best countries to live in" has become increasingly important as people seek out places with high quality of life, safety,

www.themost10.com

A few thousand protesters out of two million illegal immigrants? Looks like they just don't believe that Trump is serious (and they have pretty good reasons to do so). What the freaking clowns both sides are.

Why do you say "clowns"?
Illegals have it better here than in their home countries, and the US likes to have the cheap labor, as long as they don't vote. You seem to have an "ethnic cleansing" leaning instead of looking at building prosperity, like capitalists do.

 

[Zavulon]

They don't need saving, they belong with their families, not kidnapped and indoctrinated.

Those who have families (and if their families want them back) - return to their families. Those, who don't have families (like orphans) - will be in safety in Russia.

We disagree. If you were correct Russia's army would be welcomed instead of slaughtered as invaders.

Civilians welcome Russians, and quite cooperative in the eradication of the remnants of Kievan regime and local Nazies.

Ukrainians in Ukraine aren't the problem.

If you think, that anyone, anywhere, killing Russians (or making preparations to do it) "is not a problem" - think one more time. No one have right to kill Russians or to make significant preparations to kill us. You do it - you are begging for problems.

Russia invading Ukraine is the problem.

No. Elimination of those who kill or prepare to kill Russians - is good, not bad.

Got a link to prove that? If Ukraine and Georgia apply for membership to NATO that is not the same as NATO invading them to capture them, like Russia is trying to do in Ukraine.

Let's ask Grok.
-----------
NATO first signaled its intent to accept Ukraine and Georgia as future members at the Bucharest Summit in April 2008. During this summit, NATO leaders issued a declaration stating that both Ukraine and Georgia "will become members of NATO" in the future, though no specific timeline or Membership Action Plan (MAP) was offered at the time due to opposition from some member states, notably France and Germany, who were cautious about provoking Russia.
This commitment was reaffirmed at subsequent summits, including the 2023 Vilnius Summit, where NATO leaders declared that Ukraine’s path to membership is "irreversible" and removed the requirement for a MAP, streamlining Ukraine’s accession process. For Georgia, the 2008 promise was reiterated, but progress has been slower, with NATO welcoming Georgia’s reforms while noting challenges like Russian occupation of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
No formal invitations have been extended yet, as membership depends on consensus among all NATO allies and meeting specific conditions, such as democratic reforms and territorial integrity.
-----------

Sure, freeloader countries that depend on the US for their military security have more money for social services.

Top 10 Best Countries To Live In 2026 - The Most 10 Of Everything

In recent years, the concept of the "best countries to live in" has become increasingly important as people seek out places with high quality of life, safety,

www.themost10.com

Actually, Russia doesn't depend on the USA for our military security (not directly) and we still have a lot of money to keep our cities nice and safe.

Why do you say "clowns"?

Because all those "riots" and "law enforcement" is nothing but stupid show.

Illegals have it better here than in their home countries, and the US likes to have the cheap labor, as long as they don't vote.

What about "no taxation without representation"?

You seem to have an "ethnic cleansing" leaning instead of looking at building prosperity, like capitalists do.

No. I mean there is no reason to ask if the law are good or bad if you officially violate them. It sounds that California is officially a "criminal state", and Federal Government is pretty OK with it.

 

[kyzr]

Civilians welcome Russians, and quite cooperative in the eradication of the remnants of Kievan regime and local Nazies.

Nonsense.

If you think, that anyone, anywhere, killing Russians (or making preparations to do it) "is not a problem" - think one more time. No one have right to kill Russians or to make significant preparations to kill us. You do it - you are begging for problems.

No one was killing Russians. Many countries joined NATO to keep Russia from invading them. That is "defense" not "offense".

No. Elimination of those who kill or prepare to kill Russians - is good, not bad.

Ukraine wasn't killing Russians.
The truth is that Russia invaded Ukraine to keep it in Russia's "sphere of influence", no other reason..

NATO first signaled its intent to accept Ukraine and Georgia as future members at the Bucharest Summit in April 2008. During this summit, NATO leaders issued a declaration stating that both Ukraine and Georgia "will become members of NATO" in the future, though no specific timeline or Membership Action Plan (MAP) was offered at the time due to opposition from some member states, notably France and Germany, who were cautious about provoking Russia.
This commitment was reaffirmed at subsequent summits, including the 2023 Vilnius Summit, where NATO leaders declared that Ukraine’s path to membership is "irreversible" and removed the requirement for a MAP, streamlining Ukraine’s accession process. For Georgia, the 2008 promise was reiterated, but progress has been slower, with NATO welcoming Georgia’s reforms while noting challenges like Russian occupation of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. No formal invitations have been extended yet, as membership depends on consensus among all NATO allies and meeting specific conditions, such as democratic reforms and territorial integrity.

All of that does NOT show NATO's intent to "take" Ukraine and Georgia. It shows they would be allowed to join NATO.

Because all those "riots" and "law enforcement" is nothing but stupid show.

True, as long as the rioters don't do too much damage. The object is a peaceful "free speech" protest.

What about "no taxation without representation"?

Illegals aren't citizens so they don't get representation, and they don't pay taxes.

No. I mean there is no reason to ask if the law are good or bad if you officially violate them. It sounds that California is officially a "criminal state", and Federal Government is pretty OK with it.

Sanctuary cities and states don't technically violate immigration laws, but they don't help enforce them.

 

[Zavulon]

Nonsense.

Of course they are cooperative. My own cousin lives in Mariupol and she is cooperative. As well as most of other people there. They hate Banderlogs and have pretty good reasons for it.

No one was killing Russians.

They were killing Russians. It is exectly what all this Banderlog ideology and practical life is.

Many countries joined NATO to keep Russia from invading them. That is "defense" not "offense".

And the best defense is a good offense. And I repeat my question - "Why the USA decided to accept them?" I do understand why Poland or Romania did it - they love European and American money. But, Americans are pragmatic men. They wouldn't pay huge money and drastically decrease their own safety just in charity.

Ukraine wasn't killing Russians.

Plain lie.

The truth is that Russia invaded Ukraine to keep it in Russia's "sphere of influence", no other reason..

Keeping Ukraine and Eastern Europe in the Russian sphere of influence is the less violent way to provide safety.

All of that does NOT show NATO's intent to "take" Ukraine and Georgia. It shows they would be allowed to join NATO.

Of course it showed. And Yanukovich case clearly demonstrated what happens with people who don't want to join EU and NATO. And it was (and still is) absolutely unacceptable.

 

[kyzr]

Of course they are cooperative. My own cousin lives in Mariupol and she is cooperative. As well as most of other people there. They hate Banderlogs and have pretty good reasons for it.

The majority of Ukrainians do not want to belong to Russia, they prefer joining the EU and NATO.

They were killing Russians. It is exactly what all this Banderlog ideology and practical life is.

Violent minorities should not agitate to secede from the country they are in. If they do they get crushed.

And the best defense is a good offense. And I repeat my question - "Why the USA decided to accept them?" I do understand why Poland or Romania did it - they love European and American money. But, Americans are pragmatic men. They wouldn't pay huge money and drastically decrease their own safety just in charity.

NATO accepts countries that can help provide a military to deter Russia from invading anyone.
The American Revolution has a saying "we hang together or we hang separately"

Keeping Ukraine and Eastern Europe in the Russian sphere of influence is the less violent way to provide safety.

In whose opinion? Putin's? Putin prefers war to having a NATO neighbor. So we have a war.

Of course it showed. And Yanukovich case clearly demonstrated what happens with people who don't want to join EU and NATO. And it was (and still is) absolutely unacceptable.

No it does not show NATO's intent to "take" Georgia and Ukraine. They applied for membership in NATO, NATO did NOT invade them and conquer them as Russia is trying to do in Ukraine.
Unacceptable to who? To Russia? Ukraine is a sovereign country. As a democracy they should be able to join any alliance they want, either Russia or NATO. They chose NATO. Putin invaded. That's where we are now, a 3-year old war to see who Ukraine joins.

 

[eagle1462010]

There was never mass murder of Russians in Ukraine, but there were Russian proxies killing Ukrainians during the Maidan Revolt

China ships fentanyl to drug cartels in Mexico, and they distribute it throughout the US. Trump needs to use the military.

True. Kennedy was killed by the military, Trump was shot at by the "deep state", Killary found out when Vince Foster committed suicide with the wrong hand.

Way over my head...

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2501.18550

Trump destroyed ISIS. Syria was another evil dictatorship that lost.

We do have a democracy, but you need to view several news sources to understand the truth. But voting in the US generally just wants to replace the idiots in power with new idiots.

True.

Germany didn't invade East Germany, after the collapse of the USSR, it was reunified. Falklands were British until invaded by Argentina, and retaken by Britain. Serbia is still Serbia, NATO doesn't capture territory, it protects territory from invasion.
"German reunification in 1990 was the process that re-established Germany as a single sovereign state after the division into East and West Germany since 1949. It officially occurred on October 3, 1990, following the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989 and the signing of the Unification Treaty, which facilitated the integration of East Germany into the Federal Republic of Germany."

Exactly, billionaires buy politicians and news sources.

"Capitalism" doesn't kill people.

Ukraine needs everyone to defend against Russia's invasion.

I understand the pretext Putin used to justify his invasion. Getting ethnic Russians to protest against the Ukrainian government then when the government responds Russia claims "mass murder, ethnic cleansing, genocide, etc." and that justifies the invasion, plus taking Ukraine back gives Putin more territory.

Russians are in Russia, Ukrainians are in Ukraine. There is no justification for Russia's invasion.

True, here in the US we call it a "melting pot", where DNA mixes freely.

Don't make me laugh. Zelenskiy isn't the only comedian I see.

The more aggressive Russia gets against NATO, the more severe the sanctions get against Russia. NATO would never attack Russia, an offensive first strike is simply not allowed. NATO is a defensive alliance.

True. Military power is a necessary influence to ensure compliance. Its better than constant wars all over the planet.

The UN has no "collective defense".

NATO countries do not suppress China, quite the contrary.
We turned China from a very poor country into an economic power, 2nd only to the US.
Yes China is leveraging their new wealth into buying strategic assets.
Will China eventually use its military power to invade somewhere? Like Taiwan? I hope not.

2 sides to every story.

Media in Ukraine and Russia in stark contrast over Odessa blaze

Seems it depends on who is reporting it.

 

[kyzr]

2 sides to every story.
Media in Ukraine and Russia in stark contrast over Odessa blaze
Seems it depends on who is reporting it.

Was it a special Russian OP?
Were the people killed from Odessa or not?
Putin was looking for a reason invade, protecting ethnic Russians is right out of his FSB playbook.

 

[Zavulon]

The majority of Ukrainians do not want to belong to Russia, they prefer joining the EU and NATO.

On the last more or less free elections, in 2010, majority of Ukarainians voted for Yanukovich and alliance with Russia.
Anyway, absolute majority of people in South-Eastern Ukraine want to join Russia. Those who want live in EU and NATO (and didn't commit crimes against Russia) will be allowed to migrate in Canada.

Violent minorities should not agitate to secede from the country they are in. If they do they get crushed.

Really? Does it apply to American separatists, who definitely were a minority in the British Empire. And no, Banderlogs are violent minority and they should and will be crushed.

NATO accepts countries that can help provide a military to deter Russia from invading anyone.
The American Revolution has a saying "we hang together or we hang separately"

No. Russian tanks are not a threat to the USA. Russian nukes are. And the only thing that deter Russian nukes - is American nukes. And Poland, joined to NATO didn't increase wealth or safety of the USA. It significantly decreased it. We know it, America know it. So, the only rational explanation of those behaviour - it is preparation to attack Russia.

In whose opinion? Putin's? Putin prefers war to having a NATO neighbor. So we have a war.

If the war is inevitable - it is much safer to shoot first. You decided to start a war, by expanding NATO to our borders and starting to kill Russian people.

No it does not show NATO's intent to "take" Georgia and Ukraine. They applied for membership in NATO, NATO did NOT invade them and conquer them as Russia is trying to do in Ukraine.

Yep. NATO countries just commited coup de grace in those countries and established their puppets. One can even say that technically it weren't invasions.

Unacceptable to who? To Russia? Ukraine is a sovereign country.

Cuba was a sovereign country back in 1961, as well as Serbia, Iraq or Nicaragua. Your freedom to swing your fists ends where the aiming range of my rifle begins.

As a democracy they should be able to join any alliance they want, either Russia or NATO. They chose NATO. Putin invaded. That's where we are now, a 3-year old war to see who Ukraine joins.

We both know that for both sides Ukraine is just a little step. For Russia the goal is "denazification" of Europe and establishing of equal right and equal safety system, for EU the goal is "decolonisation" of Russia and genocide of Russian people.

 

[kyzr]

On the last more or less free elections, in 2010, majority of Ukrainians voted for Yanukovich and alliance with Russia.
Anyway, absolute majority of people in South-Eastern Ukraine want to join Russia. Those who want live in EU and NATO (and didn't commit crimes against Russia) will be allowed to migrate in Canada.

2014 election was won by Poroshenko, 60% voter participation, a decisive win for independence from Russia.
2019 election Zelenskiy won. Russia invaded, 3-years later the war continues. SE Ukraine is not pro-Russian.
Canada is not an option. Stopping Russia is the only option.

Really? Does it apply to American separatists, who definitely were a minority in the British Empire. And no, Banderlogs are violent minority and they should and will be crushed.

True, the American Revolution was won with only 3% of the population fighting. But no one joined the British against the Continental Army, except Benedict Arnold. Ukrainians are not a minority, that is an obvious lie, since they fought Russia to a stalemate.

No. Russian tanks are not a threat to the USA. Russian nukes are. And the only thing that deter Russian nukes - is American nukes. And Poland, joined to NATO didn't increase wealth or safety of the USA. It significantly decreased it. We know it, America know it. So, the only rational explanation of those behaviour - it is preparation to attack Russia.

Poland and other NATO countries keep Russia from expanding to the old USSR. NATO kept the EU from major wars since WW2, so that increased the safety of the US. NATO doesn't "attack" NATO defends. Russia attacked Ukraine. NATO keeps the peace.

If the war is inevitable - it is much safer to shoot first. You decided to start a war, by expanding NATO to our borders and starting to kill Russian people.

Plain lie. NATO didn't kill Russians. Ukraine would be no different than Poland. Just another non-threatening border country.

Yep. NATO countries just committed coup de grace in those countries and established their puppets. One can even say that technically it weren't invasions.

Ukraine and Georgia chose to join the EU for prosperity instead of Russia and poverty under a brutal Russian dictator. Russia keeps countries in their "sphere of influence" by brutal force. EU countries are prospering democracies.

Cuba was a sovereign country back in 1961, as well as Serbia, Iraq or Nicaragua. Your freedom to swing your fists ends where the aiming range of my rifle begins.

Might makes right. I'm waiting for Trump to take Panama, Cuba, and possibly Greenland.

We both know that for both sides Ukraine is just a little step. For Russia the goal is "denazification" of Europe and establishing of equal right and equal safety system, for EU the goal is "decolonisation" of Russia and genocide of Russian people.

Plain lies.
Russia can't conquer the EU, we both know it. Russia can't even conquer Ukraine.
"denazification" is a moronic term that Putin or some Russian "Goebbels" came up with. There are no Nazis.
"decolonization" is a term some EU guy came up with to give Putin something to think about.

 

[Zavulon]

2014 election was won by Poroshenko, 60% voter participation, a decisive win for independence from Russia.

Ban Democrats in the USA, kill or expel their leaders, terror ordinary democrats. Mass murder some LGBT and BLM activists, legally ban any democratic propaganda and, definitely, one of Republicans will win.

2019 election Zelenskiy won. Russia invaded, 3-years later the war continues.

75% of Ukrainians voted for the Russian-speaking Jew with his mottos "let's make peace", "Russians and Ukrainians are one nation", "The rights of Russians should be respected" over Poroshenko with his nationalistic motto "Army, Language, Faith". Say nothing about former Ukrainians who left Ukraine individually or with their lands.

SE Ukraine is not pro-Russian.

It is Russian.

Canada is not an option.

The only "true" Ukrainians live in Canada.

Stopping Russia is the only option.

You can't do it. Russia is unstoppable, when it comes to the question of survival.

True, the American Revolution was won with only 3% of the population fighting. But no one joined the British against the Continental Army, except Benedict Arnold.

If we compare Donbass separatists with American sepatists, then we should compare Ukraine with British Empire. And in British Empire majority was against independence of America.

Ukrainians are not a minority, that is an obvious lie, since they fought Russia to a stalemate.

It depends on the definitions, but first - there is no stalemate (Russia is winning), and second - Ukrainian nationalists are minority (but influencial one, for being supported by NATO).

Poland and other NATO countries keep Russia from expanding to the old USSR. NATO kept the EU from major wars since WW2, so that increased the safety of the US. NATO doesn't "attack" NATO defends. Russia attacked Ukraine. NATO keeps the peace.

View attachment 1124476

Poland as a NATO member doesn't increase safety of the USA. It is significantly decrease it.

Plain lie. NATO didn't kill Russians.

Of course you do.

Ukraine would be no different than Poland.

And Poland should be demilitarized, either. As I said - NATO's military infrastructure should be rolled back to, at least, 1997 borders.

Just another non-threatening border country.

Of course itbis threatining.

Ukraine and Georgia chose to join the EU for prosperity instead of Russia and poverty under a brutal Russian dictator.

Ukraine is losing infrastructure, people, territories. Georgia, who've learnt their lesson in 2008 - are getting really rich.

Russia keeps countries in their "sphere of influence" by brutal force. EU countries are prospering democracies.

Of course they are not. There is nothing about neither prosperity, nor democracy.

Might makes right. I'm waiting for Trump to take Panama, Cuba, and possibly Greenland.

The only thing Trump can "take" - is a dick.

Plain lies.
Russia can't conquer the EU, we both know it.

Who said about conquering? I said about elimination of the threat. Occupation should be earned.

Russia can't even conquer Ukraine.

We'll see.

"denazification" is a moronic term that Putin or some Russian "Goebbels" came up with. There are no Nazis.

Of course they are Nazies (in the Russian understanding of the term).

"decolonization" is a term some EU guy came up with to give Putin something to think about.

And we thought about it. Actually, there is nothing to think a lot. Conclusion is simple - European threat is a vital threat and it should be eliminated.

 

[kyzr]

Ban Democrats in the USA, kill or expel their leaders, terror ordinary democrats. Mass murder some LGBT and BLM activists, legally ban any democratic propaganda and, definitely, one of Republicans will win.

Got any links backing up your claims? From here it looked legitimate.

Despite violence and threats in east, Ukraine election characterized by high turnout and resolve to guarantee fundamental freedoms, international observers say

KYIV, 26 May 2014 – The 25 May early presidential election in Ukraine was characterized by high turnout and a clear resolve by the authorities to hold what was a genuine election largely in line with international commitments and that respected fundamental freedoms, despite the hostile security...

www.osce.org

Technical Difficulties

75% of Ukrainians voted for the Russian-speaking Jew with his mottos "let's make peace", "Russians and Ukrainians are one nation", "The rights of Russians should be respected" over Poroshenko with his nationalistic motto "Army, Language, Faith". Say nothing about former Ukrainians who left Ukraine individually or with their lands.

Z seems locked-in on joining NATO, and he won.

Volodymyr Zelensky - Campaign Platform in English

In March of 2019, Volodymyr Zelensky did what many thought would be impossible. In the presidential election that month, it looked like Ukraine would see

geohistory.today

Ukraine’s movement toward NATO and other similar associations is a pledge to our security. I believe in this pledge and it should be confirmed by a state referendum. My job is to make sure that the salaries of servicemen are at the level of NATO standards.

The only "true" Ukrainians live in Canada.

Why do you say that?

You can't do it. Russia is unstoppable, when it comes to the question of survival

Russian survival is only in jeopardy if they start WW3. The war in Ukraine is a serious strain on Russia. The sooner the war ends the sooner prosperity begins.

If we compare Donbass separatists with American separatists, then we should compare Ukraine with British Empire. And in British Empire majority was against independence of America.

DPR & LPR were already part of Russia in 2014, as was Crimea. Putin should have taken the easy win. But no, the stupid idiot invaded Ukraine and 3-years later he has no major progress, just a battlefield wasteland. Very stupid decision.

It depends on the definitions, but first - there is no stalemate (Russia is winning), and second - Ukrainian nationalists are minority (but influential one, for being supported by NATO).

If Russia is "winning" it will only take 50 more years to get the rest of Ukraine. That is a tragedy.

Poland as a NATO member doesn't increase safety of the USA. It is significantly decrease it.

We disagree. It keeps Russia away from the EU.

Of course you do.

NATO does not kill Russians, yet.

Poland should be demilitarized. As I said - NATO's military infrastructure should be rolled back to, at least, 1997 borders.

I understand that NATO promised "not one more inch eastward", but that was then, and this is now. NATO is no threat ton Russia unless Russia attacks a NATO country.

Of course Poland is threatening.

We disagree. You should know that neither Poland nor NATO would ever invade Russia.

Ukraine is losing infrastructure, people, territories. Georgia, who've learnt their lesson in 2008 - are getting really rich.

Ukraine was the "breadbasket of Europe", now its a battlefield. Someone needs to explain the "law of diminishing returns" to Putin.

Of course they are not. There is nothing about neither prosperity, nor democracy.

EU countries are prosperous and democracies. Russia is a brutal dictatorship that sells oil.

The only thing Trump can "take" - is a dick.

LOL. We'll see. It would be like capturing Grenada to take Cuba, Panama (no army), Greenland (no army), or even Venezuela.

Who said about conquering? I said about elimination of the threat. Occupation should be earned.

Nuking the EU would be Russian suicide. Bad idea.

Of course they are Nazis (in the Russian understanding of the term).

An incorrect misuse of the term.

And we thought about it. Actually, there is nothing to think a lot. Conclusion is simple - European threat is a vital threat and it should be eliminated.

Big talk, but we both know that if Russia uses nukes Russia gets nuked. Very bad idea.

 

[Litwin]

EU countries are prosperous and democracies. Russia is a brutal dictatorship that sells oil.

+1., Generally, the Moscow empire is a country of astonishing, truly cosmic harmony: absolutely everything in it is repulsive. The government, the opposition, the climate, the roads, the media, the economy – not a single detail spoils the picture by breaking away from the overall style.

update "Today, graduating from burning shopping malls to burning German military vehicles on NATO soil."