More or Less or More?

[Cold Fusion38]

Do we need MORE troops in Afghanistan or do we need more special forces troops supported with manned and unmanned air support?

How many troops did the Soviet Union commit to Afghanistan during the pinnacle of the conflict? How many rusting hulks of Soviet armored vehicles litter the Afghanistan terrain? Now granted we gave them covert assistance with weapons and intel but the Soviets got it handed to them so what can we learn from that?

Will a massive run up in troop levels give us the results we want or should we use smaller, faster, and more well trained troops who know how to fight (and WIN) against the type of tactics the Taliban uses? I don't know if we have enough special forces to do the job but I want to ask if posters here if they think this is a better way to wage war against the Taliban in Afghanistan.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

I mean come on tanks don't go up donkey trails, artillery won't bring those caves down, and THOUSANDS MORE troops will NOT keep the Taliban from hit and run tactics.

 

[uscitizen]

Just pull out, like we should have done years ago.
We cannot fix Afganistan.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

wow I thought this one would get some discusion.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

I think we could have 200,000 troops on the ground in Afaghnistan and it would not help the war effort but if we can bring more special ops troops I think they have a FAR better skill set to the type of conflict Afghanistan is.

 

[California Girl]

Oh goodie. Fucking idiots who think they know more than career soldiers.... yep, we sure need input from you. Please email Obama - be quick, he's planning to make an annoucement.... just as soon as he's had a few more fucking days to think about it.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Oh goodie. Fucking idiots who think they know more than career soldiers.... yep, we sure need input from you. Please email Obama - be quick, he's planning to make an annoucement.... just as soon as he's had a few more fucking days to think about it.

You have GOT to be fucking kidding RIGHT!!!??? After BUSH ignored and FIRED any military advisor who didn't get in lock step with his agenda?


And hey you may want to look at some history of the conflict between the Taliban and the Soviet Union. Granted we gave covert assistance but like I said I would LOVE to see you get an Abrams M1 up a fucking donkey trail!!!

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Oh goodie. Fucking idiots who think they know more than career soldiers.... yep, we sure need input from you. Please email Obama - be quick, he's planning to make an annoucement.... just as soon as he's had a few more fucking days to think about it.

Christ 2,500 posts in a month......Get a fucking job!

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Oh goodie. Fucking idiots who think they know more than career soldiers.... yep, we sure need input from you. Please email Obama - be quick, he's planning to make an annoucement.... just as soon as he's had a few more fucking days to think about it.

Cute avatar I'm thinkin 45 year old overweight man in his mother basement.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

So just how many troops do you think we would need to take EVERY mountain and EVERY cave in afghanistan? 6 7 800,000? The point is we need to bring the fight to THEM and fight on THEIR terms because they sure as FUCK know how to fight a war in Afghanistan. THEY have the "home court advantage" if you will. They know the terrain and they sure as fuck know HOW to use the terrain. They also know their fellow Afghanis. They either give villages help or they threaten to kill, rape, and pillage the village, and they make those threats very real. So how the FUCK do we "win" in Afghanistan? Buy off the drug lords, burn down the only "cash crop" and worsen the average Afghanis POVERTY? Do we try to win the "Hearts and Minds" of the Afghanis, too late we fucked up by giving them all the tools to run out the Soviets and forgot to help rebuild a country RAVAGED by a war. Maybe if WE had built schools then we wouldn't have left a populace that could be educated to HATE the west. Maybe we could have had young women being EDUCATED rather than SUBJUGATED and kept as little more than SLAVES to the men. Maybe we could have helped them convert to a crop that isn't sold by the drug lords to feed OUR drug addiction. But of course all of this is just what ifs becuase we COULDN'T be bothered to try to WESTERNISE because the TALIBAN were so darn upstanding. Anti-drug, anti-porn, anti-womens rights, INCREDIBLY strict hardcore religious ZEALOTS, so much in common with the "religious right" here who, if they could, would IMPOSE their religion on others.

 

[Amanda]

For starters I don't think we bring SEALs up on charges when they bring in a terrorist leader with a boo boo on his lip. I think if we let our special forces types do their fucking job without making them worry about being brought up on UCMJ charges we'd have a lot better chance of "taking the fight to them".

I think you have a reasonably good point about them having a home court advantage, but we have a "Being kickass Americans" advantage if only we allow our boys to do the fighting right. I have a brother there now and possibly another soon, and his biggest gripe is the stupid rules they have to follow. We need to understand that our enemies won't play by our rules so we need to adapt and play by theirs. Afghanistan is a tough place to win, ask anyone that's ever tried throughout history, so we need to learn from those lessons and fight to win, not to be PC, otherwise we might as well come home now and forget about them.

We need cooperation from the Pakistani's. We need to understand the tribal factions. We need to remember who these people are... after all we helped the Mujahideen fight the Soviets. Using some Pentagon playbook from the 60's or 70's ain't gonna cut it.

Afghanistan is winnable, IMO, but we have to fight to win. Iraq OTOH... I think we should find as speedy a way out of there as possible, that place is a lost cause because of the way it was set up following WWI.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

For starters I don't think we bring SEALs up on charges when they bring in a terrorist leader with a boo boo on his lip. I think if we let our special forces types do their fucking job without making them worry about being brought up on UCMJ charges we'd have a lot better chance of "taking the fight to them".

I think you have a reasonably good point about them having a home court advantage, but we have a "Being kickass Americans" advantage if only we allow our boys to do the fighting right. I have a brother there now and possibly another soon, and his biggest gripe is the stupid rules they have to follow. We need to understand that our enemies won't play by our rules so we need to adapt and play by theirs. Afghanistan is a tough place to win, ask anyone that's ever tried throughout history, so we need to learn from those lessons and fight to win, not to be PC, otherwise we might as well come home now and forget about them.

We need cooperation from the Pakistani's. We need to understand the tribal factions. We need to remember who these people are... after all we helped the Mujahideen fight the Soviets. Using some Pentagon playbook from the 60's or 70's ain't gonna cut it.

Afghanistan is winnable, IMO, but we have to fight to win. Iraq OTOH... I think we should find as speedy a way out of there as possible, that place is a lost cause because of the way it was set up following WWI.

Yeah I'm pretty much down with that but we DO have to do our best to minumize civilian casualties. Taking out a wedding party is not very good for our standing with the Afghanis. If a bad guy comes in a BIT roughed up I have no problem with that but if our guys take it upon THEMSELVES to beat a captured prisoner then I think they need to answer for that, it shows the average Afghani that we stand by our moral code. You have a good point aabout our "KICK ASS" advantage add to that complete control of the skys and we have a 70-30 or a 60-40 chance of REALLY winning but more basic forces are going to get it done.

I just hope if we DO win that we do something with it this time. If we just leave w/o improving the lives of the average Afghani or we leave the drug lords with their forces intact then we will be THROWING IT ALL AWAY! We must fundementally change the make up of their society as it stands now and most people don't like having their beleif structure torn down and rebuilt in someone else's vision.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

But the question REALY is if more troops will imporve the problem, maybe if they stay in the cities and villages and work on social projects yeah it may help but I am not convinced. And I will say here in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that I love and respect the men and women of our armed forces (and NO I don't have to agree with the mission to feel this way). They are the most skilled and dedicated military in the world and make sacrifices for us EVERY hour of EVERY day of EVERY year as do the families of the troops. As far as I am concerned we need to do FAR, FAR, FAR more for our troops who have come home with SEVERE emotional and medical issues. With the DIVORCE rate, child abuse rate, and SUICIDE rate at all time highs we are FAILING our men and women of the military in a BIG way and I find that TOTALLY unacceptable.

But once again the main question, will more troops, or more special forces get the job done? I think special ops with air support by Preditor and Raptor drones and manned aircraft like the Warthog A-10 as well as satelite intel make our special forces the deadliest in the world and MORE than a match for Taliban forces.

 

[The Rabbi]

Oh goodie. Fucking idiots who think they know more than career soldiers.... yep, we sure need input from you. Please email Obama - be quick, he's planning to make an annoucement.... just as soon as he's had a few more fucking days to think about it.

You have GOT to be fucking kidding RIGHT!!!??? After BUSH ignored and FIRED any military advisor who didn't get in lock step with his agenda?

But Bush was right. Obama is wrong.
Whatever he decides on Afghanistan, it will be the wrong decision. And it will be the downfall of his presidency, as the left deserts him in droves.

 

[Toronado3800]

Fucking idiots who think they know more than career soldiers...

Thank goodness we didn't listen to the popular and effective career soldier George Patton and end up in a real war with the Russians in 1945.

Soldiers deserve listened to. Then again the fella working the forklift in the warehouse deserves listened to when you're planning a modernization of the place.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Oh goodie. Fucking idiots who think they know more than career soldiers.... yep, we sure need input from you. Please email Obama - be quick, he's planning to make an annoucement.... just as soon as he's had a few more fucking days to think about it.

You have GOT to be fucking kidding RIGHT!!!??? After BUSH ignored and FIRED any military advisor who didn't get in lock step with his agenda?

But Bush was right. Obama is wrong.
Whatever he decides on Afghanistan, it will be the wrong decision. And it will be the downfall of his presidency, as the left deserts him in droves.

Never before have I seen a poster show his TRUE COLORS more so than the preceding post.......I will QUOTE....."Whatever he (Obama) decides on Afghanistan, it will be the wrong decision." Why is that Rabbi? Because no matter WHAT he does he will still be a Democrat, a Black man, or what? YOUR IGNORANCE SCREAMING FOR ATTENTION. "Whatever he decides on Afghanistan, it will be the wrong decision." You are such a disgusting partisan hack Rabbi that there will NEVER be any outrunning this little bit of lunacy.

 

[The Rabbi]

You have GOT to be fucking kidding RIGHT!!!??? After BUSH ignored and FIRED any military advisor who didn't get in lock step with his agenda?

But Bush was right. Obama is wrong.
Whatever he decides on Afghanistan, it will be the wrong decision. And it will be the downfall of his presidency, as the left deserts him in droves.

Never before have I seen a poster show his TRUE COLORS more so than the preceding post.......I will QUOTE....."Whatever he (Obama) decides on Afghanistan, it will be the wrong decision." Why is that Rabbi? Because no matter WHAT he does he will still be a Democrat, a Black man, or what? YOUR IGNORANCE SCREAMING FOR ATTENTION. "Whatever he decides on Afghanistan, it will be the wrong decision." You are such a disgusting partisan hack Rabbi that there will NEVER be any outrunning this little bit of lunacy.

No, dumbshit. It's because every decision he has made to date has sucked. Hi shandling of the economy, his moves on health care, his cap and trade, his Copenhagen Olympics trip--all of them have sucked. He is not up to being CinC.
Nice try but your race card has been declined.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

But Bush was right. Obama is wrong.
Whatever he decides on Afghanistan, it will be the wrong decision. And it will be the downfall of his presidency, as the left deserts him in droves.

Never before have I seen a poster show his TRUE COLORS more so than the preceding post.......I will QUOTE....."Whatever he (Obama) decides on Afghanistan, it will be the wrong decision." Why is that Rabbi? Because no matter WHAT he does he will still be a Democrat, a Black man, or what? YOUR IGNORANCE SCREAMING FOR ATTENTION. "Whatever he decides on Afghanistan, it will be the wrong decision." You are such a disgusting partisan hack Rabbi that there will NEVER be any outrunning this little bit of lunacy.

No, dumbshit. It's because every decision he has made to date has sucked. Hi shandling of the economy, his moves on health care, his cap and trade, his Copenhagen Olympics trip--all of them have sucked. He is not up to being CinC.
Nice try but your race card has been declined.

YOUR WORDS FOOL! "WHATEVER he decides on Afghanistan, it will be the WRONG decision."

You are a total fucking ASS!

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Maybe unlike BUSH he will listen to his military advisors rather than IGNORE the advise to the point that they retired rather than be ignored and overruled by BUSH the military "genius". He ignored the NUMBER of troops to secure Iraq. He DISBANDED the Iraqi army against military advise. He let looters run WILD during the first few days after we occupied Bagdad stealing NATIONAL TREASURES that belonged to the people of Iraq and can NEVER be replaced. He didn't give Afghanistan enough attention and allowed many Taliban likely INCLUDING OBL to escape into Pakistan. He failed to recognise Pakistans unwillingness to pursue Taliban forces within their borders.


BUSH f'ed up so COMPLETELY and CONSISTANTLY that Obama could decide policy by using a Roulette wheel and get more things right than Bush.

 

[The Rabbi]

You dumb cocksucker, he hasn't listened to the advice of his military advisors for 7 months now. What makes you think he is going to start?