More Europeans Will Die from Energy Crisis Than Ukraine War?

[westwall]

So you don't give a damn but blame us anyway. Isn't that undemocratic and not rules based?

Who exactly do I blame? Try using your head for once.

 

[AlexanderPK]

Who exactly do I blame? Try using your head for once.

Remind me if I ever sent you to GFY? Why are you so rude, mother fucker?

 

[westwall]

Remind me if I ever sent you to GFY? Why are you so rude, mother fucker?

You get what you give. You are rude to me, expect me to be rude to you.

 

[georgephillip]

Germany and Norway are building a hydrogen pipeline.

I suspect more of us will understand the importance of blue and green hydrogen by 2030 (assuming NATO doesn't blow up the planet before then)?

"Norway and Germany's governments have agreed to cooperate on developing low-carbon technologies, while Norwegian state oil firm Equinor has signed an agreement with German utility RWE on building a pipeline to deliver blue and green hydrogen to Germany.

"In a joint statement, Oslo and Berlin said they would expand heir cooperation in the fields of offshore wind power, hydrogen, battery technology and carbon capture and storage (CCS)."

Norway to jumpstart German hydrogen transition

 

[AlexanderPK]

You get what you give. You are rude to me, expect me to be rude to you.

Was I? Hm. Sorry, don't remember.

 

[georgephillip]

I had to stop taking bits down to talk about as more and more were coming

I am going to read more on this.

Michael Hudson came to study Economics after obtaining a BA from the University of Chicago (Dramatic Theory?) in 1959. Nine years later he received his PhD in Economics from New York University. In order to pay for his graduate study he worked as a balance of payments economist for Chase Manhattan Bank.

He understands the practical fundamentals of debt in ways most of his profession do not:

Michael Hudson (economist) - Wikipedia

"Hudson has devoted his career to the study of debt, both domestic debt (loans, mortgages, interest payments), and external debt.

"In his works, he consistently advocates the idea that loans and exponentially growing debts that outstrip profits from the real economy are disastrous for both the government and the people of the borrowing state as they wash money (payments to usurers and rentiers) from turnover, not leaving them funds to buy goods and services, thus leading to debt deflation.

"Hudson notes that the existing economic theory, the Chicago School in particular, serves rentiers and financiers and has developed a special language designed to reinforce the impression that there is no alternative to the status quo.

"In a false theory, the parasitic encumbrances of a real economy, instead of being deducted in accounting, add up as an addition to the gross domestic product and are presented as productive.

"Hudson sees consumer protection, state support of infrastructure projects, and taxation of rentier sectors of the economy rather than workers, as a continuation of the line of classical economists today."

Michael was a red diaper baby, the godson of Leon Trotsky; however, he spent much of his professional life collaborating with Herman Kahn often cited "as one of the historical inspirations for the title character in Kubrick's classic movie, Dr Strangelove.

Somehow, the really smart ones don't let ideology prevent cooperation.

 

[georgephillip]

You have a choice, pay for your food, grow your own, or starve. Life is full of choices.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

What's voluntary about being fleeced for your food or starving to death?

What makes you think you're being fleeced for your food?

*****SMILE*****

 

[georgephillip]

I'll get back when I have been able to properly look at the Norton Hudson interview.

Hudson has insights missing from the neoliberal school:
He became sufficiently capable to warrant private meetings with David Rockefeller, and, of course, he's invisible on today's MSM

Michael Hudson (economist) - Wikipedia

"In 1964, Hudson, who had just received his master's degree in economics, joined Chase Manhattan Bank's economics research department as a balance of payments specialist.

"His task was to identify the payment capacity of Argentina, Brazil, and Chile.

"Based on export earnings and other international payment data, Hudson had to determine the income the bank could derive from the debt that these countries had accumulated.

"He recalled that, 'I soon found that the Latin American countries I analyzed were fully 'loaned up'. There were no more hard currency inflows available to extract as interest on new loans or bond issues. In fact, there was capital flight.'

"Among other tasks that Hudson performed at Chase Manhattan was an analysis of the balance of payments of the US oil industry and the tracking of 'dirty' money that ended up in Swiss banks.

"According to Hudson, this work gave him invaluable experience in understanding how banks and the financial sector work as well as understanding how bank accounting and real life correlate."

 

[georgephillip]

What makes you think you're being fleeced for your food?

*****SMILE*****

 

[surada]

Michael Hudson came to study Economics after obtaining a BA from the University of Chicago (Dramatic Theory?) in 1959. Nine years later he received his PhD in Economics from New York University. In order to pay for his graduate study he worked as a balance of payments economist for Chase Manhattan Bank.

He understands the practical fundamentals of debt in ways most of his profession do not:

Michael Hudson (economist) - Wikipedia

"Hudson has devoted his career to the study of debt, both domestic debt (loans, mortgages, interest payments), and external debt.

"In his works, he consistently advocates the idea that loans and exponentially growing debts that outstrip profits from the real economy are disastrous for both the government and the people of the borrowing state as they wash money (payments to usurers and rentiers) from turnover, not leaving them funds to buy goods and services, thus leading to debt deflation.

"Hudson notes that the existing economic theory, the Chicago School in particular, serves rentiers and financiers and has developed a special language designed to reinforce the impression that there is no alternative to the status quo.

"In a false theory, the parasitic encumbrances of a real economy, instead of being deducted in accounting, add up as an addition to the gross domestic product and are presented as productive.

"Hudson sees consumer protection, state support of infrastructure projects, and taxation of rentier sectors of the economy rather than workers, as a continuation of the line of classical economists today."

Michael was a red diaper baby, the godson of Leon Trotsky; however, he spent much of his professional life collaborating with Herman Kahn often cited "as one of the historical inspirations for the title character in Kubrick's classic movie, Dr Strangelove.

Somehow, the really smart ones don't let ideology prevent cooperation.

Infographic: Does Europe have enough gas for winter?

With weeks until winter, EU gas storage is almost 90 percent full, a level 15 percent higher than last year.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[fncceo]

But, you're willing to kill to take other people's property.

 

[westwall]

Hudson has insights missing from the neoliberal school:
He became sufficiently capable to warrant private meetings with David Rockefeller, and, of course, he's invisible on today's MSM

Michael Hudson (economist) - Wikipedia

"In 1964, Hudson, who had just received his master's degree in economics, joined Chase Manhattan Bank's economics research department as a balance of payments specialist.

"His task was to identify the payment capacity of Argentina, Brazil, and Chile.

"Based on export earnings and other international payment data, Hudson had to determine the income the bank could derive from the debt that these countries had accumulated.

"He recalled that, 'I soon found that the Latin American countries I analyzed were fully 'loaned up'. There were no more hard currency inflows available to extract as interest on new loans or bond issues. In fact, there was capital flight.'

"Among other tasks that Hudson performed at Chase Manhattan was an analysis of the balance of payments of the US oil industry and the tracking of 'dirty' money that ended up in Swiss banks.

"According to Hudson, this work gave him invaluable experience in understanding how banks and the financial sector work as well as understanding how bank accounting and real life correlate."

Yeah, but underlying it all is your desire to murder people so that you can have the things that you are too lazy to work for. That is ultimately what socialism is in any of its facets. lazy pricks, who want to steal what others have worked for.

 

[surada]

But, you're willing to kill to take other people's property.

Have you thought that statement through?

 

[surada]

"More people will perish in Europe this winter because of unaffordable household energy costs than those who have died on the battlefield in the Ukraine war, according to research by the British weekly newspaper The Economist.

"Last week, the United Nations said the official civilian death toll from the Ukraine war has risen to nearly 6,900, with civilian injuries topping 10,000.

"Whilst the death of military forces in Ukraine has been difficult to verify, the number of soldiers thought to have died in Ukraine is estimated at 25,000-30,000 for each side.

"The Economist modeled the effect of the unprecedented hike in gas and electricity bills this winter and concluded that the current cost of energy will likely lead to an extra 147,000 deaths if it is a typical winter."

Estimate for "a particularly harsh winter" range between 185,000 to 335,000 extra European lives.

Do you believe governments across Western Europe should be alarmed by these numbers?

Nonsense. Look at the reality.

 

[alexa]

Yeah, but underlying it all is your desire to murder people so that you can have the things that you are too lazy to work for.

That is ultimately what socialism is in any of its facets. lazy pricks, who want to steal what others have worked for.

No it isn't. It is just a more humanitarian and, compared with neo liberalism moral way of being. I have to remember that this is what you are taught in the US - even the new deal -Roosevelt just put that in to save Capitalism. People would be prepared to steal probably murder if they were dying of hunger and that was what they needed to do. That is instinct.. Arguably our strongest instinct is to stay alive. If you want to have a society where people are not terrified of being killed, do not allow lots of people to be starving to death.

Ok one form of Socialism and the one which has been suggested recently in both the US and the UK is democratic socialism. The idea Labour in the UK had was that when a Company felt they wanted/needed to sell, the first people who would be given the chance to buy at market price would be the workers. The Government would lend them the money and they would repay the Government. They then would run the company in a democratic way. They would decide what was done with the profits and when new machinery allowed for less full time people what they should do and they would need to pay the Government back as well as choosing how to deal with profits. Some advantages which were expected were that they would not be wanting to ruin the environment given that unlike now, they lived there and it was likely that they would give back to the community from some of the profits given they lived there.

It is insane to believe that you can have an ever smaller group of people owning more and more and still have anything remotely looking like a Democracy. That is why I now believe that if you want democracy the only way you can get it is through Democratic Socialism. Capitalism of the neo liberal kind can only lead to Plutocracies.

I am off to sleep now.

 

[westwall]

No it isn't. It is just a more humanitarian and, compared with neo liberalism moral way of being. I have to remember that this is what you are taught in the US - even the new deal -Roosevelt just put that in to save Capitalism. People would be prepared to steal probably murder if they were dying of hunger and that was what they needed to do. That is instinct.. Arguably our strongest instinct is to stay alive. If you want to have a society where people are not terrified of being killed, do not allow lots of people to be starving to death.

Ok one form of Socialism and the one which has been suggested recently in both the US and the UK is democratic socialism. The idea Labour in the UK had was that when a Company felt they wanted/needed to sell, the first people who would be given the chance to buy at market price would be the workers. The Government would lend them the money and they would repay the Government. They then would run the company in a democratic way. They would decide what was done with the profits and when new machinery allowed for less full time people what they should do and they would need to pay the Government back as well as choosing how to deal with profits. Some advantages which were expected were that they would not be wanting to ruin the environment given that unlike now, they lived there and it was likely that they would give back to the community from some of the profits given they lived there.

It is insane to believe that you can have an ever smaller group of people owning more and more and still have anything remotely looking like a Democracy. That is why I now believe that if you want democracy the only way you can get it is through Democratic Socialism. Capitalism of the neo liberal kind can only lead to Plutocracies.

I am off to sleep now.

I agree that too few people have so much wealth. What you seem to not understand is government regulations REINFORCE the disparity.

 

[fncceo]

People would be prepared to steal probably murder if they were dying of hunger

People dying of hunger put up a pitiful fight and are rarely successful.

They need to state to do the stealing for them.

 

[georgephillip]

But, you're willing to kill to take other people's property.

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

 

[georgephillip]

Yeah, but underlying it all is your desire to murder people so that you can have the things that you are too lazy to work for. That is ultimately what socialism is in any of its facets. lazy pricks, who want to steal what others have worked for.

Capitalists murder people for their natural resources.
Socialists advocate for a market based on need instead of ability to pay (or pillage)