More blatant nonsense from the right, keeping the poor away from their schools

[frigidweirdo]

Why is Trump cutting grants for poor students to go to top schools? | Opinion

"
Why Is Trump Stopping Poor Students From Going to Top Schools?"

"The Administration’s education budget slashes $150 billion in federal student aid over 10 years. This move would cut by half our federal Work-Study program, which helps 675,000 students support themselves through college every year. "

Basically Trump put DeVos in charge at "education" and she's a proponent of school vouchers. Now, for me, school vouchers are just a way of taking money out of schools and giving it to rich people. But the right say it's all about CHOICE. The same people will then dismiss choice elsewhere, and ignore the fact that the UK manages to give choice to kids to go to schools they want to go to WITHOUT school vouchers.

Now, they want choice with school vouchers, and yet.... they're taking away money from poorer kids to go to college. Oh, so, what, wait.... universities will only be for rich kids, so it will benefit the rich and mean they can get the levels of education needed to get higher paid jobs....

Oh, I see, they're preventing choice, once again.

A leader elected not by choice of the people, but by the system, is making sure poorer people don't get to go to school.

This is a much more accurate article on the cuts. Not anywhere near as drastic as you make it.

Trump's Higher Education Cuts Are Neither Bold Nor Brutal

You also don't get school choice system that DeVos is pushing, because you want black and brown kids educated as long as it is not in your neighborhood with your kids! Liberal racism at its finest


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Sounds like you think you know me. You don't. So all you've said is made up.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Very few poor people benefit from college. Those that do have a strong support system at home like Ben Carson whose mother insisted he read books even though she could not read.

The ease of government money has driven up tuition. The poorest and least qualified get substantial loans and have to start college life in remedial classes.

We throw money at shiney objects without being wise.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Here's an idea, why don't ya'll socialist liberals set up a volunteer grant program to pay for these "poor" peoples schools if you'd like - and those of us who don't want to, don't have to. Ya'll are constantly hyping about how much liberal California makes and how educated and well paid ya'll are, put your money where your mouth is eh?

Or how about this, let's have a vote on it, and if 50% of the people want something, then it happens, if not, it doesn't happen. Someone has suggested this be called DEMOCRACY, but who in the US would know what democracy is?

Vote on what, nationalizing our school system? Isn't the federal too intrusive in our lives already?

As for your 50% of the people voting, when you rob Peter to pay Paul, the Paul's of your society generally have no objection. The whole problem with this country is we allow people to vote money out of others pockets to give to them.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It's bullshit, that's what it is. Like I said, the UK has choice and doesn't have vouchers, and those demanding choice for education will suddenly decide choice isn't so important for other things. Choice for university? Oh, no, not if you can't afford it, sorry, you don't get to choose any more. Choice for who you want to be your representatives? No, sorry, you don't get to choose that either....

Calling what I said bullshit gets you nowhere. You can already get scholarships for college, or if you don't, get student loans and immediately start paying those off when you get into your career. College isn't some sort of liberal playground where you go and major in Gender Studies. It's where you decide your career. That's how you pay off loans, especially if you become a doctor or a lawyer. You get the benefit of helping people (either in hospitals or courts) and you can make enough money to pay off your debts relatively quickly.

Choice for representatives? You vote for your senators from your state, and you vote for your representative from your district. You don't vote for everyone else.

Leftists believe that if they don't get something somebody else pays for, it's not within their reach.

Liberals believe that the wealthy are just people lucky enough to be born into a certain family. They believe having children that one cannot afford was just bad luck. They believe that working taxpayers should pick up the tab for everything those people don't do for themselves.

Welcome to USMB by the way........

Well, some might believe this, but Ray, you're just as partisan as they come, aren't you?

You believe that when the govt helps a company because massive, then it's okay, when they give rich people money it's great, but when they give poor people money it's wrong, don't you?

No, I believe what you just said is liberal propaganda. Nobody gives rich people anything, government just takes less away from them under Republican control. That's not the same as when the government gives poor people money. Giving means you are providing people with something they didn't have.

The reason this debate never goes anywhere is because you on the left think all money belongs to government, and what they allow you to keep is a gift from them to you. We on the right believe all money a person makes rightfully belongs to them; it is their property, and what we give to government is a gift from us to them.

Government doesn't make money--government only takes money. It's the people who work and invest that create wealth, and wealth is like any other property you own. It's like your house, your car, your lawnmower, your television sets. It rightfully belongs to you.

Ray, EVERYTHING you don't like is LIBERAL PROPAGANDA, so it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that this is what you "think".

Yes, nobody gives rich people anything, and nobody gave you political blindness either.

I seriously can't be bothered to talk to you about this any more. There is no point. You don't care about anything other than supporting your political team.

When you twist, turn and lie about something like not taking as much away from people is government giving them something, or that Walmart is getting federal subsidies because their workers go on the dole, that is propaganda.

Propaganda

noun
1.
information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.
2.
the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc.
3.
the particular doctrines or principles propagated by an organization or movement.

the definition of propaganda

 

[jc456]

Why is Trump cutting grants for poor students to go to top schools? | Opinion

"
Why Is Trump Stopping Poor Students From Going to Top Schools?"

"The Administration’s education budget slashes $150 billion in federal student aid over 10 years. This move would cut by half our federal Work-Study program, which helps 675,000 students support themselves through college every year. "

Basically Trump put DeVos in charge at "education" and she's a proponent of school vouchers. Now, for me, school vouchers are just a way of taking money out of schools and giving it to rich people. But the right say it's all about CHOICE. The same people will then dismiss choice elsewhere, and ignore the fact that the UK manages to give choice to kids to go to schools they want to go to WITHOUT school vouchers.

Now, they want choice with school vouchers, and yet.... they're taking away money from poorer kids to go to college. Oh, so, what, wait.... universities will only be for rich kids, so it will benefit the rich and mean they can get the levels of education needed to get higher paid jobs....

Oh, I see, they're preventing choice, once again.

A leader elected not by choice of the people, but by the system, is making sure poorer people don't get to go to school.

My sister has a good job and so does her X, but they put everything they worked for into the education of their two children. My niece and nephew both have college bills that their parents couldn't afford. They will all be paying for my niece and nephews education for many years to come.

It's simply not right that others can walk into college and have an easy ride while others struggle for decades for the same education. There is no law that you have to attend college and never leave until you graduate. You can work for a while, take a couple of courses, rinse and repeat. You can still get college loans, you can do a number of things.

More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments

The problem is Ray, you're looking at this only from the perspective of the individual. What about of the nation, which does need highly educated people who have gone through university?

Take China as an example. They want to win every Olympic medal going, seriously this is their goal. Now, one of the medals is for soccer. It's really under 23's soccer which allows three over 23 year olds to be in the squad. So, you need a decent level of soccer players.

China with a population that far exceeds any other country (except India, and they're absolutely pathetic at sports with the lowest per capita ratio for medals of any country that actually gets a medal) but they can't produce good soccer players. Why not? They pump money into the system, they do all of that. But they simply don't have the kids playing soccer. In Brazil they're all at it, playing all the time and they produce some of the best, but in China, they take rich kids who can pay and put them through sports schools, if they can afford to pay, and then what comes out at the end is a sub-quality level players.

If the US only puts through the rich to university, then the US will end up relying a lot of foreigners who have gone through university. Now, you're looking at places like NASA etc, but even the intelligence community which can't have foreigners, and you'll just end up with poor quality people simply because they were the only ones who could afford it.

But hey Ray, I know, I know, I've spoken with you enough, you're only happy when the super rich feel happy.

well the fact is the liberal schools are what is causing lack of education, nothing more. change the administrations and let the schools teach again.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Here's an idea, why don't ya'll socialist liberals set up a volunteer grant program to pay for these "poor" peoples schools if you'd like - and those of us who don't want to, don't have to. Ya'll are constantly hyping about how much liberal California makes and how educated and well paid ya'll are, put your money where your mouth is eh?

Or how about this, let's have a vote on it, and if 50% of the people want something, then it happens, if not, it doesn't happen. Someone has suggested this be called DEMOCRACY, but who in the US would know what democracy is?

Vote on what, nationalizing our school system? Isn't the federal too intrusive in our lives already?

As for your 50% of the people voting, when you rob Peter to pay Paul, the Paul's of your society generally have no objection. The whole problem with this country is we allow people to vote money out of others pockets to give to them.

Vote on how society is run. Is govt too intrusive? Yes, in some cases it is, and yet the people who say it's too intrusive seem to be okay with much of the negative intrusion and will fight against anything that's positive.

The problem is Ray, you will flip your views at the drop of a hat.

You love the current system because it gives the right wing an advantage, you don't want change because you find it convenient. But then when you find shouting "CHOICE" convenient, you'll do that and use that as the main source of your argument. But here, choice is not what you want, right? You don't care about choice, you care only about getting your own way. Isn't it so?

Yes Ray, part of the problem allowing people to vote money out of others pockets, and YOU are one of those people who have spent how long ignoring, deflecting etc so you can JUSTIFY such an attitude. And yet you come on here now, and you're willing to argue against the very thing you were arguing for a few days back.

Oh, wow.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Calling what I said bullshit gets you nowhere. You can already get scholarships for college, or if you don't, get student loans and immediately start paying those off when you get into your career. College isn't some sort of liberal playground where you go and major in Gender Studies. It's where you decide your career. That's how you pay off loans, especially if you become a doctor or a lawyer. You get the benefit of helping people (either in hospitals or courts) and you can make enough money to pay off your debts relatively quickly.

Choice for representatives? You vote for your senators from your state, and you vote for your representative from your district. You don't vote for everyone else.

Leftists believe that if they don't get something somebody else pays for, it's not within their reach.

Liberals believe that the wealthy are just people lucky enough to be born into a certain family. They believe having children that one cannot afford was just bad luck. They believe that working taxpayers should pick up the tab for everything those people don't do for themselves.

Welcome to USMB by the way........

Well, some might believe this, but Ray, you're just as partisan as they come, aren't you?

You believe that when the govt helps a company because massive, then it's okay, when they give rich people money it's great, but when they give poor people money it's wrong, don't you?

No, I believe what you just said is liberal propaganda. Nobody gives rich people anything, government just takes less away from them under Republican control. That's not the same as when the government gives poor people money. Giving means you are providing people with something they didn't have.

The reason this debate never goes anywhere is because you on the left think all money belongs to government, and what they allow you to keep is a gift from them to you. We on the right believe all money a person makes rightfully belongs to them; it is their property, and what we give to government is a gift from us to them.

Government doesn't make money--government only takes money. It's the people who work and invest that create wealth, and wealth is like any other property you own. It's like your house, your car, your lawnmower, your television sets. It rightfully belongs to you.

Ray, EVERYTHING you don't like is LIBERAL PROPAGANDA, so it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that this is what you "think".

Yes, nobody gives rich people anything, and nobody gave you political blindness either.

I seriously can't be bothered to talk to you about this any more. There is no point. You don't care about anything other than supporting your political team.

When you twist, turn and lie about something like not taking as much away from people is government giving them something, or that Walmart is getting federal subsidies because their workers go on the dole, that is propaganda.

Propaganda

noun
1.
information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.
2.
the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc.
3.
the particular doctrines or principles propagated by an organization or movement.

the definition of propaganda

But I'm not lying Ray. You just find what I have to say inconvenient.

And here we have you defending something you were attacking in the previous post. Oh, wow.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Why is Trump cutting grants for poor students to go to top schools? | Opinion

"
Why Is Trump Stopping Poor Students From Going to Top Schools?"

"The Administration’s education budget slashes $150 billion in federal student aid over 10 years. This move would cut by half our federal Work-Study program, which helps 675,000 students support themselves through college every year. "

Basically Trump put DeVos in charge at "education" and she's a proponent of school vouchers. Now, for me, school vouchers are just a way of taking money out of schools and giving it to rich people. But the right say it's all about CHOICE. The same people will then dismiss choice elsewhere, and ignore the fact that the UK manages to give choice to kids to go to schools they want to go to WITHOUT school vouchers.

Now, they want choice with school vouchers, and yet.... they're taking away money from poorer kids to go to college. Oh, so, what, wait.... universities will only be for rich kids, so it will benefit the rich and mean they can get the levels of education needed to get higher paid jobs....

Oh, I see, they're preventing choice, once again.

A leader elected not by choice of the people, but by the system, is making sure poorer people don't get to go to school.

My sister has a good job and so does her X, but they put everything they worked for into the education of their two children. My niece and nephew both have college bills that their parents couldn't afford. They will all be paying for my niece and nephews education for many years to come.

It's simply not right that others can walk into college and have an easy ride while others struggle for decades for the same education. There is no law that you have to attend college and never leave until you graduate. You can work for a while, take a couple of courses, rinse and repeat. You can still get college loans, you can do a number of things.

More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments

The problem is Ray, you're looking at this only from the perspective of the individual. What about of the nation, which does need highly educated people who have gone through university?

Take China as an example. They want to win every Olympic medal going, seriously this is their goal. Now, one of the medals is for soccer. It's really under 23's soccer which allows three over 23 year olds to be in the squad. So, you need a decent level of soccer players.

China with a population that far exceeds any other country (except India, and they're absolutely pathetic at sports with the lowest per capita ratio for medals of any country that actually gets a medal) but they can't produce good soccer players. Why not? They pump money into the system, they do all of that. But they simply don't have the kids playing soccer. In Brazil they're all at it, playing all the time and they produce some of the best, but in China, they take rich kids who can pay and put them through sports schools, if they can afford to pay, and then what comes out at the end is a sub-quality level players.

If the US only puts through the rich to university, then the US will end up relying a lot of foreigners who have gone through university. Now, you're looking at places like NASA etc, but even the intelligence community which can't have foreigners, and you'll just end up with poor quality people simply because they were the only ones who could afford it.

But hey Ray, I know, I know, I've spoken with you enough, you're only happy when the super rich feel happy.

well the fact is the liberal schools are what is causing lack of education, nothing more. change the administrations and let the schools teach again.

No, completely wrong. The problem is with the country as a whole. But neither side will admit it, and the "solution" to any problem is to blame the other side.

 

[kiwiman127]

The federal government has no business being involved with colleges. They charge tuition on their students. Why aren't these colleges letting "poor" students enroll for free?

The poor don't have a right to force others to pay for their higher education. They can join the military and get the GI Bill if they want it that bad. So take your Fake News story and shove it.

So, I take it you never went beyond Grade 12. Otherwise, you'd be aware of the Work Study Program and what it involves.
But no, you just knee jerked yourself into opposing a program that helps the under-privileged pay their way though college by working their way through college.
You do know the American Dream just got a blow to the nuts by some guy who had his daddy give him millions to start his professional life, after daddy paid his way through college.? Right genius?

 

[Nia88]

Some 3rd world countries provide public 4 year universities, but we as a 1st world nation cannot provide proper education to our citizens? Education is a right. You cant expect poor to do any better when they dont have the tools to pull themselves out of poverty. Education is the key to people getting out of poverty.

 

[Nia88]

Very few poor people benefit from college. Those that do have a strong support system at home like Ben Carson whose mother insisted he read books even though she could not read.

The ease of government money has driven up tuition. The poorest and least qualified get substantial loans and have to start college life in remedial classes.

We throw money at shiney objects without being wise.

Absolutely BS. Look at our poor in America. They don't have college degrees. They barely have high school degrees. Those who go and get an education are able to pull themselves out of poverty because a degree provides better pay.

 

[koshergrl]

Anti American schools shouldn't get a dime of federal money. If poor kids want to be brainwashed by anti American pieces of shit, let them pay for it themselves.
More winning for Trump.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

The right is all about fucking over the poor. It has be so since the days of the Barons of mainland europe in the 13th century and it is true today!

How the fuck can a poor person or worker ever vote for the goddamn right?

60 years of uninterrupted Democratic Party rule in cites like Chicago, what has the party done for the poor is the city better off today than it was 60 years ago ?

Democrats war on poverty started with Roosevelt's New Deal, with the trillions used fighting this "war" why do we still have poor people. Its not because of Republicans, could it possibly be that keeping people poor is more advantageous to the political left than right. As you said "How the fuck can a poor person or worker ever vote for the goddamn right?"

 

[theHawk]

The federal government has no business being involved with colleges. They charge tuition on their students. Why aren't these colleges letting "poor" students enroll for free?

The poor don't have a right to force others to pay for their higher education. They can join the military and get the GI Bill if they want it that bad. So take your Fake News story and shove it.

So, I take it you never went beyond Grade 12. Otherwise, you'd be aware of the Work Study Program and what it involves.
But no, you just knee jerked yourself into opposing a program that helps the under-privileged pay their way though college by working their way through college.
You do know the American Dream just got a blow to the nuts by some guy who had his daddy give him millions to start his professional life, after daddy paid his way through college.? Right genius?

I've got a college degree and no I didn't use any kind of government program to help me. If they are paying their way by working their way through college, then why do they need the government? Silly logic you present here, which is why you had to end on an anti-Trump rant.

College is not an entitlement, it is a privilege.

 

[kiwiman127]

Anti American schools shouldn't get a dime of federal money. If poor kids want to be brainwashed by anti American pieces of shit, let them pay for it themselves.
More winning for Trump.

Another ignorant post. Maybe, if you had the ambition to learn, you wouldn't be so angry, envious and frustrated.

More losing, by uneducated Trumpsters!

 

[kiwiman127]

The federal government has no business being involved with colleges. They charge tuition on their students. Why aren't these colleges letting "poor" students enroll for free?

The poor don't have a right to force others to pay for their higher education. They can join the military and get the GI Bill if they want it that bad. So take your Fake News story and shove it.

So, I take it you never went beyond Grade 12. Otherwise, you'd be aware of the Work Study Program and what it involves.
But no, you just knee jerked yourself into opposing a program that helps the under-privileged pay their way though college by working their way through college.
You do know the American Dream just got a blow to the nuts by some guy who had his daddy give him millions to start his professional life, after daddy paid his way through college.? Right genius?

I've got a college degree and no I didn't use any kind of government program to help me. If they are paying their way by working their way through college, then why do they need the government? Silly logic you present here, which is why you had to end on an anti-Trump rant.

College is not an entitlement, it is a privilege.

Maybe you should take the time to read this article.
An Assault on the American Dream
https://www.usnews.com/opinion/arti...get-cuts-are-an-assault-on-the-american-dream

 

[theHawk]

The federal government has no business being involved with colleges. They charge tuition on their students. Why aren't these colleges letting "poor" students enroll for free?

The poor don't have a right to force others to pay for their higher education. They can join the military and get the GI Bill if they want it that bad. So take your Fake News story and shove it.

So, I take it you never went beyond Grade 12. Otherwise, you'd be aware of the Work Study Program and what it involves.
But no, you just knee jerked yourself into opposing a program that helps the under-privileged pay their way though college by working their way through college.
You do know the American Dream just got a blow to the nuts by some guy who had his daddy give him millions to start his professional life, after daddy paid his way through college.? Right genius?

I've got a college degree and no I didn't use any kind of government program to help me. If they are paying their way by working their way through college, then why do they need the government? Silly logic you present here, which is why you had to end on an anti-Trump rant.

College is not an entitlement, it is a privilege.

Maybe you should take the time to read this article.
An Assault on the American Dream
https://www.usnews.com/opinion/arti...get-cuts-are-an-assault-on-the-american-dream

Utter nonsense. The federal government has no business in education. Liberals always think just throwing more money at education will somehow improve its quality. Instead, education costs are through the roof thanks to corrupt liberals running the education industry for generations now.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Very few poor people benefit from college. Those that do have a strong support system at home like Ben Carson whose mother insisted he read books even though she could not read.

The ease of government money has driven up tuition. The poorest and least qualified get substantial loans and have to start college life in remedial classes.

We throw money at shiney objects without being wise.

Absolutely BS. Look at our poor in America. They don't have college degrees. They barely have high school degrees. Those who go and get an education are able to pull themselves out of poverty because a degree provides better pay.

So then the question would be why do they barely have high school degrees?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Some 3rd world countries provide public 4 year universities, but we as a 1st world nation cannot provide proper education to our citizens? Education is a right. You cant expect poor to do any better when they dont have the tools to pull themselves out of poverty. Education is the key to people getting out of poverty.

The key to nearing the end of poverty is to stop poverty people from reproducing. Instead, we reward lowlifes for producing children--most cases children taxpayers have to pay for.

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree in most cases.

 

[Rustic]

Why is Trump cutting grants for poor students to go to top schools? | Opinion

"
Why Is Trump Stopping Poor Students From Going to Top Schools?"

"The Administration’s education budget slashes $150 billion in federal student aid over 10 years. This move would cut by half our federal Work-Study program, which helps 675,000 students support themselves through college every year. "

Basically Trump put DeVos in charge at "education" and she's a proponent of school vouchers. Now, for me, school vouchers are just a way of taking money out of schools and giving it to rich people. But the right say it's all about CHOICE. The same people will then dismiss choice elsewhere, and ignore the fact that the UK manages to give choice to kids to go to schools they want to go to WITHOUT school vouchers.

Now, they want choice with school vouchers, and yet.... they're taking away money from poorer kids to go to college. Oh, so, what, wait.... universities will only be for rich kids, so it will benefit the rich and mean they can get the levels of education needed to get higher paid jobs....

Oh, I see, they're preventing choice, once again.

A leader elected not by choice of the people, but by the system, is making sure poorer people don't get to go to school.

The fucking federal government needs to stop frivolous spending...