Moral Dilemma

[Esmeralda]

What's your opinion?

"The drawbridge"

As he left for a visit to his outlying districts, the jealous Baron warned his pretty wife: 'Do not leave the castle while I am gone, or I will punish you severely when I return!' But as the hours passed, the young Baroness grew lonely; despite her husband's warning she decided to visit her Lover, who lived in the countryside nearby.

The castle was situated on an island in a wide, fast-flowing river. A drawbridge linked the island to the mainland at the narrowest point in the river. 'Surely my husband will not return before dawn,' she thought, and ordered her servants to lower the drawbridge and leave it down until she returned.

After spending several pleasant hours with her Lover, the Baroness returned to the drawbridge, only to find it blocked by a Gateman wildly waving a long, cruel knife. 'Do not attempt to cross this bridge, Baroness, or I will have to kill you,' the Gateman cried. 'The Baron ordered me to do so.

Fearing for her life, the Baroness returned to her Lover and asked for help. 'Our relationship is only a romantic one,' the Lover said. 'I will not help.'

The Baroness then sought out a Boatman on the river, explaining her plight to him, and asked him to take her across the river in his boat. 'I will do it, but only if you can pay my fee of five marks,' he responded. 'But I have no money with me,' the Baroness protested. 'That is too bad. No money, no ride,' the Boatman said flatly.

Her fear growing, the Baroness ran crying to a Friend's home and, after explaining her desperate situation, begged for enough money to pay the Boatman his fee. 'If you had not disobeyed your husband, this would not have happened,' the Friend said. 'I will give you no money.'

With dawn approaching and her last resource exhausted, the Baroness returned to the drawbridge in desperation, attempted to cross to the castle, and was slain by the Gateman.

In order of priorities, who is most responsible for the death of the Baroness?

Rank the six characters below: 6 for most responsible; 5 for next most responsible, down to 1 for least responsible.

Ranking
Baron
Baroness
Gateman
Lover
Boatman
Friend

 

[syrenn]

The barron is an asshole for threatening his wife and keeping her in a prison.

The baroness is an idiot for staying with an asshole who threatens her and for not flat out leaving his sorry ass. Also has very bad taste in men....

The gateman was doing his job.... he warned her and she did not take the warning.

The lover is just your typical man whore out for a good time.

the boatman had is price and stuck to it.

the friend is no friend. She should have said "good for you for leaving is sorry ass, stay here with me." Good for her for not giving her money to return to an abusive husband.

 

[Sunshine]

What's your opinion?

"The drawbridge"

As he left for a visit to his outlying districts, the jealous Baron warned his pretty wife: 'Do not leave the castle while I am gone, or I will punish you severely when I return!' But as the hours passed, the young Baroness grew lonely; despite her husband's warning she decided to visit her Lover, who lived in the countryside nearby.

The castle was situated on an island in a wide, fast-flowing river. A drawbridge linked the island to the mainland at the narrowest point in the river. 'Surely my husband will not return before dawn,' she thought, and ordered her servants to lower the drawbridge and leave it down until she returned.

After spending several pleasant hours with her Lover, the Baroness returned to the drawbridge, only to find it blocked by a Gateman wildly waving a long, cruel knife. 'Do not attempt to cross this bridge, Baroness, or I will have to kill you,' the Gateman cried. 'The Baron ordered me to do so.

Fearing for her life, the Baroness returned to her Lover and asked for help. 'Our relationship is only a romantic one,' the Lover said. 'I will not help.'

The Baroness then sought out a Boatman on the river, explaining her plight to him, and asked him to take her across the river in his boat. 'I will do it, but only if you can pay my fee of five marks,' he responded. 'But I have no money with me,' the Baroness protested. 'That is too bad. No money, no ride,' the Boatman said flatly.

Her fear growing, the Baroness ran crying to a Friend's home and, after explaining her desperate situation, begged for enough money to pay the Boatman his fee. 'If you had not disobeyed your husband, this would not have happened,' the Friend said. 'I will give you no money.'

With dawn approaching and her last resource exhausted, the Baroness returned to the drawbridge in desperation, attempted to cross to the castle, and was slain by the Gateman.

In order of priorities, who is most responsible for the death of the Baroness?

Rank the six characters below: 6 for most responsible; 5 for next most responsible, down to 1 for least responsible.

Ranking
Baron
Baroness
Gateman
Lover
Boatman
Friend

She is responsible. She made her own choices.

 

[syrenn]

What's your opinion?

"The drawbridge"

As he left for a visit to his outlying districts, the jealous Baron warned his pretty wife: 'Do not leave the castle while I am gone, or I will punish you severely when I return!' But as the hours passed, the young Baroness grew lonely; despite her husband's warning she decided to visit her Lover, who lived in the countryside nearby.

The castle was situated on an island in a wide, fast-flowing river. A drawbridge linked the island to the mainland at the narrowest point in the river. 'Surely my husband will not return before dawn,' she thought, and ordered her servants to lower the drawbridge and leave it down until she returned.

After spending several pleasant hours with her Lover, the Baroness returned to the drawbridge, only to find it blocked by a Gateman wildly waving a long, cruel knife. 'Do not attempt to cross this bridge, Baroness, or I will have to kill you,' the Gateman cried. 'The Baron ordered me to do so.

Fearing for her life, the Baroness returned to her Lover and asked for help. 'Our relationship is only a romantic one,' the Lover said. 'I will not help.'

The Baroness then sought out a Boatman on the river, explaining her plight to him, and asked him to take her across the river in his boat. 'I will do it, but only if you can pay my fee of five marks,' he responded. 'But I have no money with me,' the Baroness protested. 'That is too bad. No money, no ride,' the Boatman said flatly.

Her fear growing, the Baroness ran crying to a Friend's home and, after explaining her desperate situation, begged for enough money to pay the Boatman his fee. 'If you had not disobeyed your husband, this would not have happened,' the Friend said. 'I will give you no money.'

With dawn approaching and her last resource exhausted, the Baroness returned to the drawbridge in desperation, attempted to cross to the castle, and was slain by the Gateman.

In order of priorities, who is most responsible for the death of the Baroness?

Rank the six characters below: 6 for most responsible; 5 for next most responsible, down to 1 for least responsible.

Ranking
Baron
Baroness
Gateman
Lover
Boatman
Friend

She is responsible. She made her own choices.

agreed...and all of them bad choices from the start.

 

[Wolfsister77]

Baron-6
Baroness-5
Friend-4
Lover-3
Gateman-2
Boatman-1

 

[Esmeralda]

So far very interesting. I think you are harsh on the Baroness. She made bad choices, but is she so unethical and foolish she deserves to die?

 

[syrenn]

So far very interesting. I think you are harsh on the Baroness. She made bad choices, but is she so unethical and foolish she deserves to die?

yes..i get what the "story is trying to get at"

it has nothing to do with what she deserves or if she deserved to die. ..... it is about choices and the consequences of those choices.

she chose to cross the bridge...where she was clearly warned that if she tired she would be killed...

she tried and got killed.... her choice.


Then there is the whole angle of ... "helping your fellow man"

 

[BlackSand]

Rank the six characters below: 6 for most responsible; 5 for next most responsible, down to 1 for least responsible.

Ranking
Baron
Baroness
Gateman
Lover
Boatman
Friend

6 - Gateman
5 - Baroness
4 - Baron
3 - Lover
2 - Friend
1 - Boatman

What is the Dilemma?

.

 

[realinvestment]

My wife wouldn't think twice about killing me if I had an affair, so it's understandable how the Baron acted.

 

[Esmeralda]

The penality for infidelity is death?

 

[syrenn]

The penality for infidelity is death?

according to sharia law..... yes.

 

[Esmeralda]

LOL Well, I think the point of the 'exercise' here is to determine your personal perspective.

It is a lesson in ethics: not to teach any specific ethics, but to discuss ethics, what any individual would determine based on his/her own personal ethical position. Though I think infedility is wrong, I don't think it is serious enough to result in death. So, I think the Baron is the worst because he essentially gave his wife the death penalty for being unfaithful. In fact, she could have left the castle w/o going to a lover. And he was also unethical for essentially locking her in the house. If a modern day man locked his wife up when he went away, that would be considered domestic abuse. If he had killed when she tried to sneak back in the house, he'd be on trial for murder. He is the main one responsible for her death.

I think the friend and lover are next responsible. The lover is completely amoral; he doesn't care at all what happens to her. He has just used her for sex.

The friend should have helped because a true friend is loyal, even if she disagrees with her friend's behavior.

Ethically, the baroness was wrong for being unfaithful, so I put her in the middle as far as responsible for her death. But I don't think she was wrong for leaving the castle as she shouldn't have been 'locked up' in the first place.

The gateman should have quit his job instead of killing the Baroness. Ethically, though he too was doing his job, he should draw the line at murder.

The boatman was just doing his job, but he was culpable in her death, knowing she would die if he didn't help her.


Rank the six characters below: 6 for most responsible; 5 for next most responsible, down to 1 for least responsible.

Baron 6
Baroness 3
Gateman 2
Lover 5
Boatman 1
Friend 4

This is all my opinion, of course. The point is to determine who is most and least responsible for her death based on your own, personal ethics. It's just an issue of thinking about what you believe and why.

 

[Connery]

The more a person is oppressed the more they will repel that oppression. The human spirit cannot be crushed. The baroness made bad choices but the whole series of events is responsible the system that placed each member of this situation and compelled them to act in a way which allowed the station to worsen is the major cause.

 

[Esmeralda]

The more a person is oppressed the more they will repel that oppression. The human spirit cannot be crushed. The baroness made bad choices but the whole series of events is responsible the system that placed each member of this situation and compelled them to act in a way which allowed the station to worsen is the major cause.

Okay. That's a good point. But, even though that may be the case, is not one person in this little story more or less ethical than another?

 

[Connery]

The more a person is oppressed the more they will repel that oppression. The human spirit cannot be crushed. The baroness made bad choices but the whole series of events is responsible the system that placed each member of this situation and compelled them to act in a way which allowed the station to worsen is the major cause.

Okay. That's a good point. But, even though that may be the case, is not one person in this little story more or less ethical than another?

Ethical......those who acted with fidelity to their duties and the promise to carry out those duties. The wife who was with her lover got herself in a bad place because she was not "ethical" her lover should have done the right thing and made sure the baroness got home safely.

 

[Esmeralda]

The more a person is oppressed the more they will repel that oppression. The human spirit cannot be crushed. The baroness made bad choices but the whole series of events is responsible the system that placed each member of this situation and compelled them to act in a way which allowed the station to worsen is the major cause.

Okay. That's a good point. But, even though that may be the case, is not one person in this little story more or less ethical than another?

Ethical......those who acted with fidelity to their duties and the promise to carry out those duties. The wife who was with her lover got herself in a bad place because she was not "ethical" her lover should have done the right thing and made sure the baroness got home safely.

What about the friend? Is a friend ethically someone who will support you, even though you may be doing something he/she disagrees with? Her friend did nothing to help her, knowing it could end in death for the baroness.

 

[syrenn]

Okay. That's a good point. But, even though that may be the case, is not one person in this little story more or less ethical than another?

Ethical......those who acted with fidelity to their duties and the promise to carry out those duties. The wife who was with her lover got herself in a bad place because she was not "ethical" her lover should have done the right thing and made sure the baroness got home safely.

What about the friend? Is a friend ethically someone who will support you, even though you may be doing something he/she disagrees with? Her friend did nothing to help her, knowing it could end in death for the baroness.

yes men and enablers....are not friends.

the baroness did not have to go back.

 

[Esmeralda]

Ethical......those who acted with fidelity to their duties and the promise to carry out those duties. The wife who was with her lover got herself in a bad place because she was not "ethical" her lover should have done the right thing and made sure the baroness got home safely.

What about the friend? Is a friend ethically someone who will support you, even though you may be doing something he/she disagrees with? Her friend did nothing to help her, knowing it could end in death for the baroness.

yes men and enablers....are not friends.

the baroness did not have to go back.

That's true. She did not have to go back. But is she solely responsible? Because if her husband had not set it up for the Gateman to kill her if she tried to return home, she'd be alive. I still think he is most responsible because he set up a situation that if she left the castle, she would die if she tried to return. Whatever reason she left the castle, unless it was to kill him or plot his death, she doesn't deserve to die if she tries to return.

Of course we could say she is thus stupid for leaving, for disobeying, but people disobey authoritarian rule all the time: does that mean they all deserve to die?

 

[syrenn]

What about the friend? Is a friend ethically someone who will support you, even though you may be doing something he/she disagrees with? Her friend did nothing to help her, knowing it could end in death for the baroness.

yes men and enablers....are not friends.

the baroness did not have to go back.

That's true. She did not have to go back. But is she solely responsible? Because if her husband had not set it up for the Gateman to kill her if she tried to return home, she'd be alive. I still think he is most responsible because he set up a situation that if she left the castle, she would die if she tried to return. Whatever reason she left the castle, unless it was to kill him or plot his death, she doesn't deserve to die if she tries to return.

she is solely responsible for everything.

she married him in the first place didnt she?

if she left and never looked back....leaving an abusive husband.. it would not have mattered one bit if the barron had a million men there to cut her down.....

She knew what would happen if she crossed the bridge.... she was warned what would happen... and she still did it.

you deserve the consequences of your actions.... she knew before hand the consequences of her actions.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The barron is an asshole for threatening his wife and keeping her in a prison.

The baroness is an idiot for staying with an asshole who threatens her and for not flat out leaving his sorry ass. Also has very bad taste in men....

The gateman was doing his job.... he warned her and she did not take the warning.

The lover is just your typical man whore out for a good time.

the boatman had is price and stuck to it.

the friend is no friend. She should have said "good for you for leaving is sorry ass, stay here with me." Good for her for not giving her money to return to an abusive husband.

Characters in a melodrama don't kill people... knives kill people.





The knife is responsible.