Modern conservatives sympathizing with The Confederacy... Is this a thing now?

[bripat9643]

A 'more perfect Union' was formed from the original. The Union was not abrogated.

The Articles of Confederation were tossed into the waste bin when the Constitution was adopted, so the union they established was obviously not perpetual. It existed only until the Founders created a different union.

It was not stated that all men's equality was written in the Constitution; the reference was to what a founding document says.

The Constitution is the founding document. It doesn't say all men are created equal.

Many things, such as school segregation, persisted until confronted.

Right, the Constitution didn't outlaw those things either.

You're looking rather foolish at the moment.

 

[bripat9643]

Rights are a creation of human beings, as are governments.

Then you disagree with the poster who said "They simply cannot justify slavery though for it is morally, ethically, and legally wrong and always has been?"

 

[Mr.Right]

Rights are a creation of human beings, as are governments.

Then you disagree with the poster who said "They simply cannot justify slavery though for it is morally, ethically, and legally wrong and always has been?"

Liberal logic. Lol

 

[there4eyeM]

...as are all words, ideas, concepts, etc. That is not a matter of ideology, it is neither 'left' nor 'right', it is a fact of linguistics.
Distort it at will. We are free to do anything.

 

[kaz]

A perpetual Union was what was established. It is therefore clear that leaving the Union was not part of the deal

Where does the Constitution say either of those?

So can a man force a woman to have sex with him because she once married him even though she wants a divorce? I know you wont' get this point, it's butt obvious, but you are a liberal and liberals never get points. The will of the rest of the States continues to be imposed on the people of a State without consent of the governed.

Your reply will not show you don't agree with what I just said, it will show you didn't grasp what I just said

 

[NYcarbineer]

I've seen at least three conservatives on this site talk about how Lincoln and the Union were wrong, and that the Confederacy should have been allowed to secede the way they did, and were on the right side of history..

Is this a popular stance among conservatives of today? Are they really pro-Confederacy when they look back on the Civil War? Or are there just a couple crazies here and there?

(This thread may also help the 'Gay Marriage' thread from being further derailed with Civil War arguments. Figured it was worth a shot haha)

There are many RWnuts around here who both admire and defend the CSA while at the same time they blame Democrats for slavery and segregation.

You figure them out...

 

[-S-]

Rights are a creation of human beings, as are governments.

Then you disagree with the poster who said "They simply cannot justify slavery though for it is morally, ethically, and legally wrong and always has been?"

Rights are a creation of human beings, as are governments.

Then you disagree with the poster who said "They simply cannot justify slavery though for it is morally, ethically, and legally wrong and always has been?"

Liberal logic. Lol

A perpetual Union was what was established. It is therefore clear that leaving the Union was not part of the deal

Where does the Constitution say either of those?

So can a man force a woman to have sex with him because she once married him even though she wants a divorce? I know you wont' get this point, it's butt obvious, but you are a liberal and liberals never get points. The will of the rest of the States continues to be imposed on the people of a State without consent of the governed.

Your reply will not show you don't agree with what I just said, it will show you didn't grasp what I just said

After reading through all of this, it seems that the people most likely to defend the Confederacy are:

*Conservative
*Southern

I get that no one actually wants to support slavery, they just want to support the act of rebellion, because they feel that it's an American principle or something.

I guess myself, and the other moderates/liberals/anti-Confederate conservatives, don't look at it the same way.


I am VERY pro-equality, regardless of what's in or isn't in the Constitution. I don't look at the Confederacy as a rag tag group of rebels fighting for American values, I see a group of people that couldn't socially progress at the same rate as the other regions in the nation, and paid the price for their ignorance. I don't see anything to celebrate. If I want to celebrate American rebellion, I'll read about the Revolutionary War

 

[Roadrunner]

Why the hell would the opinions on the history forum qualify as a post on the political forum. Are lefties so plumb out of ideas and opinions that they have to bring up the freaking Confederacy to make a political point?

Yes, they are.

Memories of the past must be dredged up so the Dem base doesn't start asking what happened to Yes We Can and Hope and Change.

For most Obama voters, it became No You Didn't, and Hope This Changes.

Duped again, they must be distracted.

Maybe Hillary can fire them up, or, dupe the new crop.

 

[bripat9643]

Rights are a creation of human beings, as are governments.

Then you disagree with the poster who said "They simply cannot justify slavery though for it is morally, ethically, and legally wrong and always has been?"

Rights are a creation of human beings, as are governments.

Then you disagree with the poster who said "They simply cannot justify slavery though for it is morally, ethically, and legally wrong and always has been?"

Liberal logic. Lol

A perpetual Union was what was established. It is therefore clear that leaving the Union was not part of the deal

Where does the Constitution say either of those?

So can a man force a woman to have sex with him because she once married him even though she wants a divorce? I know you wont' get this point, it's butt obvious, but you are a liberal and liberals never get points. The will of the rest of the States continues to be imposed on the people of a State without consent of the governed.

Your reply will not show you don't agree with what I just said, it will show you didn't grasp what I just said

After reading through all of this, it seems that the people most likely to defend the Confederacy are:

*Conservative
*Southern

I get that no one actually wants to support slavery, they just want to support the act of rebellion, because they feel that it's an American principle or something.

I guess myself, and the other moderates/liberals/anti-Confederate conservatives, don't look at it the same way.


I am VERY pro-equality, regardless of what's in or isn't in the Constitution. I don't look at the Confederacy as a rag tag group of rebels fighting for American values, I see a group of people that couldn't socially progress at the same rate as the other regions in the nation, and paid the price for their ignorance. I don't see anything to celebrate. If I want to celebrate American rebellion, I'll read about the Revolutionary War

So slaughtering 850,000 people is a proper punishment for not progressing sufficiently rapidly to satisfy you?

That's true idiocy right there.

If you support the American Revolution, then you should support the Confederacy. They are based on the same principles - exactly.

 

[kaz]

After reading through all of this, it seems that the people most likely to defend the Confederacy are:

Strawman. OK, race whore, we are defending secession, not "the confederacy." Stop being a dick and present our position correctly

*Conservative

Wrong, I'm a libertarian

*Southern

Wrong, I'm a northerner, I just live in the south

I get that no one actually wants to support slavery, they just want to support the act of rebellion, because they feel that it's an American principle or something.

Wrong, we oppose your socialist edifice and want you to stop forcing it on us

I guess myself, and the other moderates/liberals/anti-Confederate conservatives, don't look at it the same way.

No, you look at it through a fog of stupidity

I am VERY pro-equality, regardless of what's in or isn't in the Constitution. I don't look at the Confederacy as a rag tag group of rebels fighting for American values, I see a group of people that couldn't socially progress at the same rate as the other regions in the nation, and paid the price for their ignorance. I don't see anything to celebrate. If I want to celebrate American rebellion, I'll read about the Revolutionary War

You are equality of results regardless of the effort put in. We are equality of opportunity. You are correct that we don't look at it the same way. Other than that, it's like your whole life, wrong on pretty much everything. Starting with your test scores, probably why you can't follow a conversation and you want government to give you the money you won't/can't earn

 

[kaz]

A perpetual Union was what was established. It is therefore clear that leaving the Union was not part of the deal

Where does the Constitution say either of those?

So can a man force a woman to have sex with him because she once married him even though she wants a divorce? I know you wont' get this point, it's butt obvious, but you are a liberal and liberals never get points. The will of the rest of the States continues to be imposed on the people of a State without consent of the governed.

Your reply will not show you don't agree with what I just said, it will show you didn't grasp what I just said

Bam! Called that one!

OK, it wasn't hard...

 

[NYcarbineer]

A perpetual Union was what was established. It is therefore clear that leaving the Union was not part of the deal

Where does the Constitution say either of those?

So can a man force a woman to have sex with him because she once married him even though she wants a divorce? I know you wont' get this point, it's butt obvious, but you are a liberal and liberals never get points. The will of the rest of the States continues to be imposed on the people of a State without consent of the governed.

Your reply will not show you don't agree with what I just said, it will show you didn't grasp what I just said

Every state has representatives in the federal government.

 

[kaz]

A perpetual Union was what was established. It is therefore clear that leaving the Union was not part of the deal

Where does the Constitution say either of those?

So can a man force a woman to have sex with him because she once married him even though she wants a divorce? I know you wont' get this point, it's butt obvious, but you are a liberal and liberals never get points. The will of the rest of the States continues to be imposed on the people of a State without consent of the governed.

Your reply will not show you don't agree with what I just said, it will show you didn't grasp what I just said

Every state has representatives in the federal government.

And what conclusion do you draw from that, Grasshopper?

 

[rightwinger]

I've seen at least three conservatives on this site talk about how Lincoln and the Union were wrong, and that the Confederacy should have been allowed to secede the way they did, and were on the right side of history..

Is this a popular stance among conservatives of today? Are they really pro-Confederacy when they look back on the Civil War? Or are there just a couple crazies here and there?

(This thread may also help the 'Gay Marriage' thread from being further derailed with Civil War arguments. Figured it was worth a shot haha)

Their tactic is to blame Democrats for slavery while you simultaneously defend states rights and the Confederacy

 

[gipper]

A perpetual Union was what was established. It is therefore clear that leaving the Union was not part of the deal.

All men are created equal is what the document stated.

The Constitution protects human rights against tyranny. Is there anything more tyrannical than slavery?

And yet your beloved Lincoln proposed enshrining slavery in the Constitution, making it legal forever....but facts matter not to the Lincoln cultist.

There is no such thing as a perpetual union...never was and never will be. To believe such tripe, is to turn our founding fathers on their heads.

 

[kaz]

I've seen at least three conservatives on this site talk about how Lincoln and the Union were wrong, and that the Confederacy should have been allowed to secede the way they did, and were on the right side of history..

Is this a popular stance among conservatives of today? Are they really pro-Confederacy when they look back on the Civil War? Or are there just a couple crazies here and there?

(This thread may also help the 'Gay Marriage' thread from being further derailed with Civil War arguments. Figured it was worth a shot haha)

There are many RWnuts around here who both admire and defend the CSA while at the same time they blame Democrats for slavery and segregation.

You figure them out...

Strawman

 

[Katzndogz]

If Lincoln had not been assassinated we would not have African Americans today. It was his intention to round them up and return all of them to Africa. As it was he removed hundreds.

Abraham Lincoln wanted to deport slaves to new colonies - Telegraph

 

[hipeter924]

They simply cannot justify slavery though for it is morally, ethically, and legally wrong and always has been.

So the belief that States can secede from the union now means we believe in slavery.

Um...OK?

Have you ever been tested to see if you have an IQ?

Have you read the secession papers? Every last one of them stated slavery as the reason for secession.

Well, in terms of today's money, a group of slaves was worth millions in terms of their labor output over their lifetimes.

The South essentially demanded financial compensation for said property loss, which is something the North couldn't accept.

Though, not sure whether many Southern states would have agreed to such a compromise, even had the North conceded and offered compensation.

 

[kaz]

They simply cannot justify slavery though for it is morally, ethically, and legally wrong and always has been.

So the belief that States can secede from the union now means we believe in slavery.

Um...OK?

Have you ever been tested to see if you have an IQ?

Have you read the secession papers? Every last one of them stated slavery as the reason for secession.

Well, in terms of today's money, a group of slaves was worth millions in terms of their labor output over their lifetimes.

The South essentially demanded financial compensation for said property loss, which is something the North couldn't accept.

Though, not sure whether many Southern states would have agreed to such a compromise, even had the North conceded and offered compensation.

There was discussion of that and it was the South that didn't want to pursue it. From an economic point of view, compensating them for their slaves wasn't a solution to how they ran their farms going forward.

I look at it analogously to that if you buy stolen property, you don't get compensated if you get caught and have it confiscated regardless of whether you actually knew it was stolen or not. The property is legitimately the original owners and they should not have to buy back their own property. They bought people, which was clearly a violation of their Constitutional rights to not lose their life, liberty or property without due process of law. No one should have to buy them back

 

[NYcarbineer]

A perpetual Union was what was established. It is therefore clear that leaving the Union was not part of the deal

Where does the Constitution say either of those?

So can a man force a woman to have sex with him because she once married him even though she wants a divorce? I know you wont' get this point, it's butt obvious, but you are a liberal and liberals never get points. The will of the rest of the States continues to be imposed on the people of a State without consent of the governed.

Your reply will not show you don't agree with what I just said, it will show you didn't grasp what I just said

Every state has representatives in the federal government.

And what conclusion do you draw from that, Grasshopper?

That your claim that other states impose their will on a state without the consent of the governed, that claim is false.