Debate Now Mistakes in the 2020 Presidential Election

candycorn

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G.T.

Mac1958

Nosmo King

ABikerSailor

LoneLaugher

skews13

rightwinger

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BULLDOG

OldLady

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----

Hello and good morning:

I summoned you all here to perhaps have an open and frank discussion about mistakes made by either candidate in the 2020 General Election. It can be from any time frame (before or after the nominating conventions) but specifically, I think it would be great if we discussed the strategy other than Trump's inability to walk down a slope or Biden's gaffes. That's up to you. You were invited because I have found your posts to be interesting and topical.

I'll start.

I think Biden has been too passive in his appearances. The "go-to" for his campaign seems to be these drive-in events. Why he's not having 2 or 3 a day is puzzling.

I also think Biden is overplaying the angle of "they died alone" when talking about Covid deaths. I don't hear every one of his speeches but well over 100,000 Americans have lost a loved one. Bringing it up over and over is designed to create anger at Trump. But it's also, for want of a better term, a "turn off".

For Trump, the mistakes are pretty obvious. Blowing off debates, telling the Proud Boys to "stand by", calling Fauci an idiot when he has higher trust ratings on the virus than he does.

What do you think the big mistakes were? If you prefer to do it after the election...we may be waiting a while. But I can understand if you'd like to hedge.

This is my first time trying this...here goes nothing.
 

G.T.

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Trumps underlying mistakes are that he's all "red meat red meat red meat," and Americans are mostly exhausted with the division. He's a narcissistic prick, but he does have the ability to be endearing in a way, at times...and hasn't honed in the skill to use it at the most opportune times.

He really needed to stop being so off the cuff with Covid, as well. He's really sneaky, and duplicitous. Wear a mask, don't wear a mask, masks are patriotic, masks are for pussies...its over, its not over, its only bad because we test more...my team says lock down for two weeks and social distance...my team blames lockdowns on Democrats...Doctor Fauci and I have a great relationship...by the way he throws a baseball like a girl(wtf?). I downplayed covid, I upplayed covid...its worse than the flu, its no worse than the flu.

Also - being Trump in general is an overall negative...he lies 86 times before breakfast and he has a super sensitive ego for any criticism while in the most criticized Office in the world.

I'll do more, and do Biden post coffee :) thnx for the invite.
 

Nosmo King

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The difference between the campaigns is stark. Biden presents policy, Trump airs personal grievences. Biden has solutions, Trump plays the 'victim card'.

Biden' campaign is aspirational, Trumps is instigational.

The choice is whether you're cynical and aggrieved or exhausted by the reality show huckster.
 
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candycorn

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The difference between the campaigns is stark. Biden presents policy, Trump airs personal grievences. Biden has solutions, Trump plays the 'victim card'.

Biden' campaign is aspirational, Trumps is instigational.

The choice is whether you're cynical and aggrieved or exhausted by the reality show huckster.
I think there is a lot of truth in that. However, some of Biden's stump speeches are downright depressing and, I feel, don't engender outrage as much as they engender someone trying to capitalize on your personal tragedy for their own purposes.
 

Nosmo King

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That's the American spirit!

Is it so far fetched that Sec. Clinton said we could put some of Trump supporters into a Basket of Deplorables?

With respect for the democratic experiment that is America like this, let's roll out the welcome mat for Authoritarianism.
 

Nosmo King

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The difference between the campaigns is stark. Biden presents policy, Trump airs personal grievences. Biden has solutions, Trump plays the 'victim card'.

Biden' campaign is aspirational, Trumps is instigational.

The choice is whether you're cynical and aggrieved or exhausted by the reality show huckster.
I think there is a lot of truth in that. However, some of Biden's stump speeches are downright disgusting Trump's message your personalvdepressing and, I feel, don't engender outrage as much as they engender someone trying to capitalize on your personal tragedy for their own purposes.
Isn
The difference between the campaigns is stark. Biden presents policy, Trump airs personal grievences. Biden has solutions, Trump plays the 'victim card'.

Biden' campaign is aspirational, Trumps is instigational.

The choice is whether you're cynical and aggrieved or exhausted by the reality show huckster.
I think there is a lot of truth in that. However, some of Biden's stump speeches are downright depressing and, I feel, don't engender outrage as much as they engender someone trying to capitalize on your personal tragedy for their own purposes.
Isn't Trump's message your personal tragedies no big deal? He gave up on the pandemic. 230,000 deaths are just the cost of doing business.

Which message is more appropriate?
 
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candycorn

candycorn

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The difference between the campaigns is stark. Biden presents policy, Trump airs personal grievences. Biden has solutions, Trump plays the 'victim card'.

Biden' campaign is aspirational, Trumps is instigational.

The choice is whether you're cynical and aggrieved or exhausted by the reality show huckster.
I think there is a lot of truth in that. However, some of Biden's stump speeches are downright disgusting Trump's message your personalvdepressing and, I feel, don't engender outrage as much as they engender someone trying to capitalize on your personal tragedy for their own purposes.
Isn
The difference between the campaigns is stark. Biden presents policy, Trump airs personal grievences. Biden has solutions, Trump plays the 'victim card'.

Biden' campaign is aspirational, Trumps is instigational.

The choice is whether you're cynical and aggrieved or exhausted by the reality show huckster.
I think there is a lot of truth in that. However, some of Biden's stump speeches are downright depressing and, I feel, don't engender outrage as much as they engender someone trying to capitalize on your personal tragedy for their own purposes.
Isn't Trump's message your personal tragedies no big deal? He gave up on the pandemic. 230,000 deaths are just the cost of doing business.

Which message is more appropriate?
I think it's smart campaigning for the Bidens to bring it up over and over. The texture of their comments though may not have the desired effect. The Kristin Urquiza's of the world should be speaking about the loss--she was the woman who spoke at the 2020 DNC Convention about her father dying whose only pre-existing condition was believing Trump. In her voice...the message lands. In Joe's voice...it sounds somewhat opportunistic.
 

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Campaigning is different this year. Given the lead he has had since day one, Biden has not needed to put staff and supporters at risk.

I would like to see Biden spend more resources in Florida. Harris is going to TX....I'd rather see her in FL.

The Biden ground game didn't use door knocking as the primary tactic due to COVID until very recently.

Regardless.....this election is a referendum on Trump. He has been so bad and so divisive, that the only thing that
would have given him a chance is if Biden was as much of a shitperson as he is....or if the "media" had
successfully painted him as such as they did with Hillary.

He ran through money like nobody ever has and he's got shit to show for it. Worst campaign operation
ever.
 

OldLady

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The difference between the campaigns is stark. Biden presents policy, Trump airs personal grievences. Biden has solutions, Trump plays the 'victim card'.

Biden' campaign is aspirational, Trumps is instigational.

The choice is whether you're cynical and aggrieved or exhausted by the reality show huckster.
I think there is a lot of truth in that. However, some of Biden's stump speeches are downright depressing and, I feel, don't engender outrage as much as they engender someone trying to capitalize on your personal tragedy for their own purposes.
Biden is spending too much time on what's wrong with Trump and not enough on what's right about his ideas. I agree he is on a real downer-- I nearly flipped when I heard his speech in Warm Springs. I was hoping most weren't all like that.

And he really is staying too low key. I agree with him not holding rallies, but I fear he's not getting enough exposure. Covid really has screwed the pooch as far as getting out there and reaching people. People really do respond to face to face encounters with a candidate. A warm smile, an autograph...it matters. Well, can't change that.

I'm still hoping for the best, but it worries me, just like when Hillary took a vacation for the month of August.
 
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candycorn

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The difference between the campaigns is stark. Biden presents policy, Trump airs personal grievences. Biden has solutions, Trump plays the 'victim card'.

Biden' campaign is aspirational, Trumps is instigational.

The choice is whether you're cynical and aggrieved or exhausted by the reality show huckster.
I think there is a lot of truth in that. However, some of Biden's stump speeches are downright depressing and, I feel, don't engender outrage as much as they engender someone trying to capitalize on your personal tragedy for their own purposes.
Biden is spending too much time on what's wrong with Trump and not enough on what's right about his ideas. I agree he is on a real downer-- I nearly flipped when I heard his speech in Warm Springs. I was hoping most weren't all like that.

And he really is staying too low key. I agree with him not holding rallies, but I fear he's not getting enough exposure. Covid really has screwed the pooch as far as getting out there and reaching people. People really do respond to face to face encounters with a candidate. A warm smile, an autograph...it matters. Well, can't change that.

I'm still hoping for the best, but it worries me, just like when Hillary took a vacation for the month of August.
I agree with 99% of that. He has shown a flash of anger/indignation...but mostly it's been, as you say, a downer.
 
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candycorn

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Campaigning is different this year. Given the lead he has had since day one, Biden has not needed to put staff and supporters at risk.

I would like to see Biden spend more resources in Florida. Harris is going to TX....I'd rather see her in FL.

The Biden ground game didn't use door knocking as the primary tactic due to COVID until very recently.

Regardless.....this election is a referendum on Trump. He has been so bad and so divisive, that the only thing that
would have given him a chance is if Biden was as much of a shitperson as he is....or if the "media" had
successfully painted him as such as they did with Hillary.

He ran through money like nobody ever has and he's got shit to show for it. Worst campaign operation
ever.
That is one of the good things he's done. He's kept it about Trump more than about himself. You still have to put some of yourself out there.
 
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candycorn

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Quick question for the group....if you wish to weigh in.

On a scale of 1-100; 1 being none and 100 being max....

Rate Biden's passion... I'd give it like a 30. Not impressive.
 

Nosmo King

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The difference between the campaigns is stark. Biden presents policy, Trump airs personal grievences. Biden has solutions, Trump plays the 'victim card'.

Biden' campaign is aspirational, Trumps is instigational.

The choice is whether you're cynical and aggrieved or exhausted by the reality show huckster.
I think there is a lot of truth in that. However, some of Biden's stump speeches are downright depressing and, I feel, don't engender outrage as much as they engender someone trying to capitalize on your personal tragedy for their own purposes.
Biden is spending too much time on what's wrong with Trump and not enough on what's right about his ideas. I agree he is on a real downer-- I nearly flipped when I heard his speech in Warm Springs. I was hoping most weren't all like that.

And he really is staying too low key. I agree with him not holding rallies, but I fear he's not getting enough exposure. Covid really has screwed the pooch as far as getting out there and reaching people. People really do respond to face to face encounters with a candidate. A warm smile, an autograph...it matters. Well, can't change that.

I'm still hoping for the best, but it worries me, just like when Hillary took a vacation for the month of August.
I agree with 99% of that. He has shown a flash of anger/indignation...but mostly it's been, as you say, a downer.
Is it really a 'downer' or are we just so conditioned to the hysterics of Trump that anything sane seems dull by comparison?
 
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candycorn

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The difference between the campaigns is stark. Biden presents policy, Trump airs personal grievences. Biden has solutions, Trump plays the 'victim card'.

Biden' campaign is aspirational, Trumps is instigational.

The choice is whether you're cynical and aggrieved or exhausted by the reality show huckster.
I think there is a lot of truth in that. However, some of Biden's stump speeches are downright depressing and, I feel, don't engender outrage as much as they engender someone trying to capitalize on your personal tragedy for their own purposes.
Biden is spending too much time on what's wrong with Trump and not enough on what's right about his ideas. I agree he is on a real downer-- I nearly flipped when I heard his speech in Warm Springs. I was hoping most weren't all like that.

And he really is staying too low key. I agree with him not holding rallies, but I fear he's not getting enough exposure. Covid really has screwed the pooch as far as getting out there and reaching people. People really do respond to face to face encounters with a candidate. A warm smile, an autograph...it matters. Well, can't change that.

I'm still hoping for the best, but it worries me, just like when Hillary took a vacation for the month of August.
I agree with 99% of that. He has shown a flash of anger/indignation...but mostly it's been, as you say, a downer.
Is it really a 'downer' or are we just so conditioned to the hysterics of Trump that anything sane seems dull by comparison?
Maybe...

But talking about people dying alone is a downer...he's done that at least twice in his stump speeches--and he hasn't been stumping that much.
 

Nosmo King

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The difference between the campaigns is stark. Biden presents policy, Trump airs personal grievences. Biden has solutions, Trump plays the 'victim card'.

Biden' campaign is aspirational, Trumps is instigational.

The choice is whether you're cynical and aggrieved or exhausted by the reality show huckster.
I think there is a lot of truth in that. However, some of Biden's stump speeches are downright depressing and, I feel, don't engender outrage as much as they engender someone trying to capitalize on your personal tragedy for their own purposes.
Biden is spending too much time on what's wrong with Trump and not enough on what's right about his ideas. I agree he is on a real downer-- I nearly flipped when I heard his speech in Warm Springs. I was hoping most weren't all like that.

And he really is staying too low key. I agree with him not holding rallies, but I fear he's not getting enough exposure. Covid really has screwed the pooch as far as getting out there and reaching people. People really do respond to face to face encounters with a candidate. A warm smile, an autograph...it matters. Well, can't change that.

I'm still hoping for the best, but it worries me, just like when Hillary took a vacation for the month of August.
I agree with 99% of that. He has shown a flash of anger/indignation...but mostly it's been, as you say, a downer.
Is it really a 'downer' or are we just so conditioned to the hysterics of Trump that anything sane seems dull by comparison?
Maybe...

But talking about people dying alone is a downer...he's done that at least twice in his stump speeches--and he hasn't been stumping that much.
Coronavirus is THE issue, if not a referendum on Trump.
 

G.T.

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Onto Biden.

Something he has done right is pay little mind to LapTopGate. Ironically, I thought Hillary should have done the opposite and clearly elucidated that he email scandal was a load of horse shit fantasy.

Negatives...where to begin.

One, him being the nominee in the first place. The Democrats seem to pick the candidate with the least favorable optics for some reason for now two elections straight. Why is that? They had Scholars, War Veterans, younger Candidates oozing with pragmatic ideas and enthusiasm. The chose Joe Biden? I'll never get that...it seems like self sabotage.

They chose Hillary when she had like 25 years of internet folklore in her shadow from the right wing. That was already going to be hard to overcome...the years on years on years of tall tales of mischief.

Anyway, what he and Hillary BOTH did wrong was failing to confront the real threat which is Trump. They may mention it in passing, but they never put the knife in and turn which, with all of his flaws, should be REALLY easy to do. They never do it.

They don't relitigate his litany of lies...here's a lie, here's its impact. Here's a lie, here's its impact.

They don't outright negate the optics of the "police vs anti police" paradigm. Trump declares he is the "law and order" candidate...well, OK? Why don't you steal that rhetoric right back...say that hes implying the other side are therefore pro criminal, and heres why that couldnt be farther from the truth. No, instead they allowed themselves to be the defacto opposite. Why? And why not hammer away, reveal and explain why he is using that rhetoric to manipulate and divide people.

No?

Last, and sorry ~ but they SAY he failed on Covid and then repeat the death toll as the argument. They argument isn't the death toll, that's the RESULT.

HOW he failed was lying, being manipulative and putting the stock market and his optics ahead of the health and safety of those he represents.

The staying in his basement thing was a positive. He IS old, he IS slowing down in terms of collecting his thoughts on the fly. They did the right thing and guessed, (hopefully correctly) that people are ready to be rid of Trump, and it's not about Biden.
 
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candycorn

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The difference between the campaigns is stark. Biden presents policy, Trump airs personal grievences. Biden has solutions, Trump plays the 'victim card'.

Biden' campaign is aspirational, Trumps is instigational.

The choice is whether you're cynical and aggrieved or exhausted by the reality show huckster.
I think there is a lot of truth in that. However, some of Biden's stump speeches are downright depressing and, I feel, don't engender outrage as much as they engender someone trying to capitalize on your personal tragedy for their own purposes.
Biden is spending too much time on what's wrong with Trump and not enough on what's right about his ideas. I agree he is on a real downer-- I nearly flipped when I heard his speech in Warm Springs. I was hoping most weren't all like that.

And he really is staying too low key. I agree with him not holding rallies, but I fear he's not getting enough exposure. Covid really has screwed the pooch as far as getting out there and reaching people. People really do respond to face to face encounters with a candidate. A warm smile, an autograph...it matters. Well, can't change that.

I'm still hoping for the best, but it worries me, just like when Hillary took a vacation for the month of August.
I agree with 99% of that. He has shown a flash of anger/indignation...but mostly it's been, as you say, a downer.
Is it really a 'downer' or are we just so conditioned to the hysterics of Trump that anything sane seems dull by comparison?
Maybe...

But talking about people dying alone is a downer...he's done that at least twice in his stump speeches--and he hasn't been stumping that much.
Coronavirus is THE issue, if not a referendum on Trump.
Thats true. I just think the texture he is applying to it is a bit depressing. And, as I think we saw in 2016, part of the electorate sees the presidential campaign as a popularity contest.

Thats all I'm saying.
 
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candycorn

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Anyway, what he and Hillary BOTH did wrong was failing to confront the real threat which is Trump. They may mention it in passing, but they never put the knife in and turn which, with all of his flaws, should be REALLY easy to do. They never do it.

They don't relitigate his litany of lies...here's a lie, here's its impact. Here's a lie, here's its impact.

They don't outright negate the optics of the "police vs anti police" paradigm. Trump declares he is the "law and order" candidate...well, OK? Why don't you steal that rhetoric right back...say that hes implying the other side are therefore pro criminal, and heres why that couldnt be farther from the truth. No, instead they allowed themselves to be the defacto opposite. Why? And why not hammer away, reveal and explain why he is using that rhetoric to manipulate and divide people.

No?
Excellent analysis. Although I think the argument is one that doesn't need to be made explicitly. Again...that is what "I think".... I might be wrong.

They should do more of what you're describing though just to make sure.
 
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