Minimum Wage Increase: They Never Talks About the SALES

[LOki]

Still not seeing how the Minimum Wage has ever hurt the U.S. Economy.

This has been explained to you. You offer no contest; just denial of well established economic realities.

We have more Millionaires and Billionaires than ever before in our history.

Not relevant. Just another distracting appeal to emotion.

Paying struggling workers a decent wage isn't gonna break the bank. Seriously, it's true. Anyway, have a good Saturday. See ya.

Patently wrong for OBVIOUS reasons.

no loki, it is NOT well established that the minimum wage hikes have hurt the economy, nor has it been established that they have raised our country's unemployment rates or hurt the economy's growth in the 22 times minimum wage has gone up in our nation.

All figures from said increases show NO EFFECT on the Nations unemployment rate and NO EFFECT on inflation rates for the Nation either....

The numbers are not with you...so what are you seeing that I am not seeing?

Can you show the numbers you have analyzed to come to this conclusion?

I agree with you that it seems like this would be the case...but the statistics/numbers proving such, just aren't there to support the theory....
Minimum Wage Mythbusters - U.S. Department of Labor

<<COPY/PASTE BLERF SNIPPED IN THE NAME OF SANITY>>​

I have submitted and explained to you the well established economic principles that describe how statutory minimum wage is necessarily harmful to the economy.

I have examined plenty of data... yet none of it was corrected for the anti-inflation, and counter unemployment policies (and other confounding externalities) that are active in the same time periods.

An injured athlete pumped full of pain-killers and cortisone feels and functions just fine... would you still say he was not harmed?

Of course not.

Do you have such data--corrected for the anti-inflation, and counter unemployment policies (and other confounding externalities)--that would so soundly refute the points I submitted? If so, please present them so we can examine them together.

Minimum Wage has never caused more Unemployment. You don't have any evidence supporting otherwise. If you do, let's have it. I'm an open-minded individual.

I have submitted and explained to you the well established economic principles that describe how statutory minimum wage is necessarily harmful to the economy.

I have examined plenty of data... yet none of it was corrected for the anti-inflation, and counter unemployment policies (and other confounding externalities) that are active in the same time periods.

An injured athlete pumped full of pain-killers and cortisone feels and functions just fine... would you still say he was not harmed?

Of course not.

Do you have such data--corrected for the anti-inflation, and counter unemployment policies (and other confounding externalities)--that would so soundly refute the points I submitted? If so, please present them so we can examine them together.

 

[danielpalos]

Minimum Wage has never caused more Unemployment. You don't have any evidence supporting otherwise. If you do, let's have it. I'm an open-minded individual.

Do you think it could? Do you think it's possible to raise the minimum enough that it would cause unemployment or inflation? If so, how high would that be?

would inflation driven by wages be worse than what we have now?

Yes. More inflation, regardless of the cause, is bad for workers and the middle class. It's really only helpful to bankers and politicians.

I am not sure I understand your point of view; inflation happens. Wages out-pacing inflation must be better for labor.

Only if all wages were raised, and only if no one loses their job because they can't convince an employer to pay them the higher wage. And only if the higher wages actually do outpace inflation. For most people, not all of those would be true.

Not at all. We could simply reserve labor at the rock bottom cost of a form of minimum wage that clears our poverty guidelines as that form of "competition" with the private sector via that public policy which constitutes that public use--on an at-will basis.

Only the right complains about that; but, only when it may benefit the least wealthy.

 

[dblack]

So, everyone would have to be stoned?

 

[danielpalos]

So, everyone would have to be stoned?

on an at-will basis? only the right insist on everybody Conforming to the morals of the Age of Iron.

 

[dblack]

So, everyone would have to be stoned?

on an at-will basis? only the right insist on everybody Conforming to the morals of the Age of Iron.

Daniel, don't get me wrong. I'm more sympathetic to 'elevated planes of awareness' than you might imagine. But if you want to engage with the rest of us, you need to sober up and speak English. I'm not saying you're not onto something. But you need to make sure you're not "on something" when you try to explain it to the rest of us.

 

[danielpalos]

it requires a clue and Cause.

 

[LOki]

I wonder why no proponent for statutory minimum wage will tell us why they object to simply basing a worker's wages upon what that worker's work is worth?

What could possibly be the root cause of such reluctance?

 

[dblack]

I wonder why no proponent for statutory minimum wage will tell us why they object to simply basing a worker's wages upon what that worker's work is worth?

What could possibly be the root cause of such reluctance?

They've hinted at it at least. They don't understand the concept of 'worth'. They believe it's an intrinsic property, and don't comprehend that it's an entirely subjective judgement. What something is worth is different for every single person.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yet businesses in America have managed to survive and thrive for many many years. The sky never fell, like you guys predicted. There is no evidence proving any business in America has ever gone out of business due to the Minimum Wage. If you can't pay Minimum Wage, than it's time for you to close up shop. It wasn't meant to be for you. It is what it is.

So never mind all the evidence that hiking the minimum wage hurts the very people it's supposed to help? Never mind that hiking the minimum wage ignores the crucial difference between people who work low-income jobs to get through school or for other temporary reasons and people who work low-income jobs on a long-term basis and to support or help support a family?

Just never mind fact and reality, right? Just blindly insist on hiking the minimum wage over and over again--and then scratch your head and wonder why our economy continues to have weaker and weaker recoveries, more and more long-term unemployed, and more jobs shipped overseas because companies understandably don't want to pay someone $15 an hour and benefits to do simple jobs like operate a cash register, wash dishes, or clean tables.

Hiking the EITC is an infinitely smarter and better way to help people who work low-income jobs on a long-term basis, especially if they're supporting or helping to support a family. It targets those who need the help, distributes the cost more broadly, and doesn't cause employers to cut back on low-income jobs.

You guys have been proven wrong time after time. The sky doesn't fall over raising Minimum Wage. Businesses will once again survive, and thrive.

and everything will cost more and those who are already making the proposed MW will see their purchasing power drop

Last year the median hourly wage was 17 an hour

so more than half of all workers will not get a raise and will instead see their purchasing power diminish.

How does that help the economy?

So you're saying sellers will raise their prices in response to a labor cost increase for them ?

Duh

 

[JoeMoma]

Say an employee agrees to work for an employer for a given wage per hour. To the employee, that agreed upon wage per hour at least as valuable as the time and labor he provides, else he does not take the job. To the employer, the labor/work is at least as valuable as the wage per hour payed by the employer, else he fires the employee. What is a particular job worth? That is established by a mutual agreement between employee and employer. The minimum wage prices some people out of the bottom rung of employment.

 

[paulitician]

The Minimum Wage does not adversely effect the Economy. There just isn't any evidence it ever has. Businesses have not only always survived it, they've thrived. So let's do the right thing and make more citizens tax-paying productive citizens. We'll all benefit from it in the end.

The alternative is much much worse. Having millions more citizens depending on Government Entitlements to survive, will cost us a whole lot more. You think your taxes are too high now? Just wait. If we continue down this road, you ain't seen nothin yet.

So show me the last time the MW was doubled and then what happened

Never before has the MW been proposed to be more than doubled.

It isn't rocket science to figure out that those who are making close to the proposed MW will see a decrease in spending power because prices across the board will have to rise to accommodate the drastic proposed increase and the people already getting close to the proposed MW will not see any salary increaae

Let's be real, $9 an hr is gonna make anyone rich. In fact, that's pretty much shite nowadays. My God, just rent alone, is a killer in today's America. The Minimum Wage needs to be at least somewhere between $10-$12.

With that, more will pay taxes and maybe even have some disposable income to spend back into the economy. It'll benefit us all in the long run. It's the logical alternative to supporting millions more who'll need Government Entitlements to survive.

everyone is talking 15 an hour not 9

And why are you working on the assumption that one can only work 1 full time job and that that one job should be enough to pay all living expenses?

When I was working for near MW I managed to pay rent keep a car on the road and food in the fridge. I just worked more than one job for more than 40 hours a week and shared an apartment with a few other guys. I never needed government assistance then.

Welcome to the new America. Just paying rent alone, has become virtually impossible for too many Americans. I mean just to live in an apartment, they do credit checks and set the rates ridiculously high. So i'm sorry so many Americans are greedy assholes, but that's just the way it is. Not many Landlords give a shite about anyone other than themselves.

So, in some areas of the country, $15 an hr. isn't so unreasonable. But like i said, i'm willing to go with $10-$12. It's a decent step n the right direction. But it'll still be a struggle.

Landlords have the right to protect their property from deadbeats. If you have shitty credit it doesn't matter what your hourly wage is you will have trouble anywhere.

And rent is not impossible to pay people do it every month.

So why don't you answer the question:

Why are you basing being able to pay all of one's living expenses on the wage from one 40 hour a week job?

As I said before when I was only able to get low wages when I was young I didn't whine about it I got another job and worked as much as I had to so that the wage my work was worth covered my bills.

I never needed to suck on the public tit so why do you?

Wow, you sound so greedy and hateful. Sound like a typical fat, greedy, hateful, old white guy. It's sad. Good thing you guys are old and going extinct. Hopefully, America will be a better place when you're gone. I'm betting it will be.

 

[paulitician]

But see, back in 2006, the prices were lower. And the minimum wage was $5.25. Now it's $7.25 or higher in most places.

Every time you raise the minimum wage, we never have this great big boost in the economy, nor is everyone able to afford everything they want.

It never works. So now it's $7.25, and we're hearing the exact same argument we heard when it was $5.25.

Every time you move the line, the target moves farther away.

And no, it won't benefit us in the long run, because more people will be on government benefits as jobs dry up, as they have EVERY TIME the minimum wage goes up.

There isn't any evidence proving that raising Minimum Wage adversely effects the economy.

Do you deny that minimum wage has always been trivially low, and that it's only decreased over time, in terms of actual value? Why would there be any evidence? If anything, there should be evidence of the opposite. And lo and behold .....

During the time it's existed, more Millionaires & Billionaires have been created than ever before in history. Raising Minimum Wage has little to no impact. So let's get em working, paying taxes, and spending some money back into the economy. $10-$12 is a good starting point. But it'll still be a struggle.

This is exactly right, but you fail to recognize the significance of this observation. Minimum wage is supported by the powers that be, quite deliberately, because it maintains an underclass. Because it placates the masses with false security and allows the millionaires and billionaires to bilk us, while pretending to do the opposite. You're propagating a fraud, a delusion and a distraction.

Could be true. But in my observation, most Businesses vehemently oppose the Minimum Wage. So i'm not ready to subscribe to your theory yet.

Most people, including most business owners, aren't millionaire or billionaires.

Most small businesses only manage single digit profit margins and people think that doubling labor costs won't hurt those businesses at all.

Show us actual evidence Minimum Wage has ever hurt American Businesses. Fact is, American Businesses have not only survived Minimum Wage, they've thrived. You guys are never right. You've predicted the sky falling every time it's been raised in the past. And it never has. So i'm very confident you'll be proven wrong again.

 

[paulitician]

Still not seeing how the Minimum Wage has ever hurt the U.S. Economy.

This has been explained to you. You offer no contest; just denial of well established economic realities.

We have more Millionaires and Billionaires than ever before in our history.

Not relevant. Just another distracting appeal to emotion.

Paying struggling workers a decent wage isn't gonna break the bank. Seriously, it's true. Anyway, have a good Saturday. See ya.

Patently wrong for OBVIOUS reasons.

no loki, it is NOT well established that the minimum wage hikes have hurt the economy, nor has it been established that they have raised our country's unemployment rates or hurt the economy's growth in the 22 times minimum wage has gone up in our nation.

All figures from said increases show NO EFFECT on the Nations unemployment rate and NO EFFECT on inflation rates for the Nation either....

The numbers are not with you...so what are you seeing that I am not seeing?

Can you show the numbers you have analyzed to come to this conclusion?

I agree with you that it seems like this would be the case...but the statistics/numbers proving such, just aren't there to support the theory....
Minimum Wage Mythbusters - U.S. Department of Labor

<<COPY/PASTE BLERF SNIPPED IN THE NAME OF SANITY>>​

I have submitted and explained to you the well established economic principles that describe how statutory minimum wage is necessarily harmful to the economy.

I have examined plenty of data... yet none of it was corrected for the anti-inflation, and counter unemployment policies (and other confounding externalities) that are active in the same time periods.

An injured athlete pumped full of pain-killers and cortisone feels and functions just fine... would you still say he was not harmed?

Of course not.

Do you have such data--corrected for the anti-inflation, and counter unemployment policies (and other confounding externalities)--that would so soundly refute the points I submitted? If so, please present them so we can examine them together.

Minimum Wage has never caused more Unemployment. You don't have any evidence supporting otherwise. If you do, let's have it. I'm an open-minded individual.

I have submitted and explained to you the well established economic principles that describe how statutory minimum wage is necessarily harmful to the economy.

I have examined plenty of data... yet none of it was corrected for the anti-inflation, and counter unemployment policies (and other confounding externalities) that are active in the same time periods.

An injured athlete pumped full of pain-killers and cortisone feels and functions just fine... would you still say he was not harmed?

Of course not.

Do you have such data--corrected for the anti-inflation, and counter unemployment policies (and other confounding externalities)--that would so soundly refute the points I submitted? If so, please present them so we can examine them together.

So you have no actual facts or evidence proving Minimum Wage has ever caused Unemployment to rise. Thanks. That's what i've been saying all along. You guys are so wrong, so often. Why should anyone believe you?

 

[paulitician]

Yet businesses in America have managed to survive and thrive for many many years. The sky never fell, like you guys predicted. There is no evidence proving any business in America has ever gone out of business due to the Minimum Wage. If you can't pay Minimum Wage, than it's time for you to close up shop. It wasn't meant to be for you. It is what it is.

So never mind all the evidence that hiking the minimum wage hurts the very people it's supposed to help? Never mind that hiking the minimum wage ignores the crucial difference between people who work low-income jobs to get through school or for other temporary reasons and people who work low-income jobs on a long-term basis and to support or help support a family?

Just never mind fact and reality, right? Just blindly insist on hiking the minimum wage over and over again--and then scratch your head and wonder why our economy continues to have weaker and weaker recoveries, more and more long-term unemployed, and more jobs shipped overseas because companies understandably don't want to pay someone $15 an hour and benefits to do simple jobs like operate a cash register, wash dishes, or clean tables.

Hiking the EITC is an infinitely smarter and better way to help people who work low-income jobs on a long-term basis, especially if they're supporting or helping to support a family. It targets those who need the help, distributes the cost more broadly, and doesn't cause employers to cut back on low-income jobs.

You guys have been proven wrong time after time. The sky doesn't fall over raising Minimum Wage. Businesses will once again survive, and thrive.

and everything will cost more and those who are already making the proposed MW will see their purchasing power drop

Last year the median hourly wage was 17 an hour

so more than half of all workers will not get a raise and will instead see their purchasing power diminish.

How does that help the economy?

So you're saying sellers will raise their prices in response to a labor cost increase for them ?

Duh

Duh. They're gonna raise prices anyway. Minimum Wage has nothing to do with it. It never has.

 

[Dragonlady]

As long as we're clear that what you're advocating is sacrificing the middle class to the desires of the very rich and the very poor.

Not in any way true. Raising the minimum wage will in reality help the middle class by putting more disposable income into the hands of lower income families.

It will reduce dependence on social spending, and increase the number of tax paying citizens, both of which benefits the middle class.

 

[paulitician]

As long as we're clear that what you're advocating is sacrificing the middle class to the desires of the very rich and the very poor.

Not in any way true. Raising the minimum wage will in reality help the middle class by putting more disposable income into the hands of lower income families.

It will reduce dependence on social spending, and increase the number of tax paying citizens, both of which benefits the middle class.

Thanks. Spot On. They're still not getting it. But hey, you tried. Maybe they'll learn when their taxes get repeatedly raised significantly to support millions more who need Government Entitlements to survive. But then again, maybe not. Greed is a very powerful thing. It can consume people.

 

[paulitician]

And seriously, relax fat greedy white Republicans. No one's gonna steal your pot o' gold. You'll still have yours. Some poor Americans are just gonna get a little help. So no need to throw hissy fits. Everything's gonna work out fine.

 

[danielpalos]

I wonder why no proponent for statutory minimum wage will tell us why they object to simply basing a worker's wages upon what that worker's work is worth?

What could possibly be the root cause of such reluctance?

I already have. It is about solving for capitalism's laziness regarding a laissez-faire attitude concerning a natural rate of unemployment.

 

[protectionist]

Not in any way true. Raising the minimum wage will in reality help the middle class by putting more disposable income into the hands of lower income families.

It will reduce dependence on social spending, and increase the number of tax paying citizens, both of which benefits the middle class.

Correct. And it also boosts SALES$$$, compensating for the firm's increased labor costs

 

[LOki]

This has been explained to you. You offer no contest; just denial of well established economic realities.


Not relevant. Just another distracting appeal to emotion.

Patently wrong for OBVIOUS reasons.

no loki, it is NOT well established that the minimum wage hikes have hurt the economy, nor has it been established that they have raised our country's unemployment rates or hurt the economy's growth in the 22 times minimum wage has gone up in our nation.

All figures from said increases show NO EFFECT on the Nations unemployment rate and NO EFFECT on inflation rates for the Nation either....

The numbers are not with you...so what are you seeing that I am not seeing?

Can you show the numbers you have analyzed to come to this conclusion?

I agree with you that it seems like this would be the case...but the statistics/numbers proving such, just aren't there to support the theory....
Minimum Wage Mythbusters - U.S. Department of Labor

<<COPY/PASTE BLERF SNIPPED IN THE NAME OF SANITY>>​

I have submitted and explained to you the well established economic principles that describe how statutory minimum wage is necessarily harmful to the economy.

I have examined plenty of data... yet none of it was corrected for the anti-inflation, and counter unemployment policies (and other confounding externalities) that are active in the same time periods.

An injured athlete pumped full of pain-killers and cortisone feels and functions just fine... would you still say he was not harmed?

Of course not.

Do you have such data--corrected for the anti-inflation, and counter unemployment policies (and other confounding externalities)--that would so soundly refute the points I submitted? If so, please present them so we can examine them together.

Minimum Wage has never caused more Unemployment. You don't have any evidence supporting otherwise. If you do, let's have it. I'm an open-minded individual.

I have submitted and explained to you the well established economic principles that describe how statutory minimum wage is necessarily harmful to the economy.

I have examined plenty of data... yet none of it was corrected for the anti-inflation, and counter unemployment policies (and other confounding externalities) that are active in the same time periods.

An injured athlete pumped full of pain-killers and cortisone feels and functions just fine... would you still say he was not harmed?

Of course not.

Do you have such data--corrected for the anti-inflation, and counter unemployment policies (and other confounding externalities)--that would so soundly refute the points I submitted? If so, please present them so we can examine them together.

So you have no actual facts or evidence proving Minimum Wage has ever caused Unemployment to rise. Thanks. That's what i've been saying all along. You guys are so wrong, so often. Why should anyone believe you?

I also told you this: