Millions Of Electric Car Batteries Retiring By 2030, Are We Ready To Deal With What Could Be Ticking Time Bombs?

[Damaged Eagle]

Since both here and in Europe, they are starting to recycle the blades, all I see in your posts is the standard cry from idiot "Conservatives", "No, we can't". Such a bunch of sad sacks.

Prove that the recycling process doesn't leave a lot hazardous material to deal with in recycling batteries or wind turbine blades.

Until then the science is not settled which makes you a simple troll.

*****CHUCLE*****

 

[Dagosa]

Millions Of Electric Car Batteries Retiring By 2030, Are We Ready To Deal With What Could Be Ticking Time Bombs?

Millions of Electric Car Batteries Retiring by 2030, Are We Ready To Deal With What Could Be Ticking Time Bombs?

www.theepochtimes.com

10 Sep 2022 ~~ By Autumn Spreadmann

The evolving landscape of lithium batteries is creating both contradictions and infrastructure hurdles that, according to some, need to be addressed sooner rather than later. A critical component of this is waste management.
More than 6 million electric vehicle (EV) battery packs will end up as scrap between now and 2030, and the recycling and reuse industries are racing to keep up. Some researchers project that recycling alone will be an over $12 billion industry by 2025.
U.S. President Joe Biden wants to make America a key player in the EV battery industry with a $3.1 billion spending package for automobile production to transition away from fossil fuels.
Much of this dream is pinned on a dusty stretch of soil in the Nevada high desert called Thacker Pass. It serves as the lynchpin in Biden’s push for increased domestic lithium production and more EV batteries. That’s because Thacker Pass is the largest hard rock lithium reserve in the United States.
Currently, China dominates the world’s EV battery production, with more than 80 percent of all units developed there.
Yet while Biden’s administration has its sights on the top spot for EV battery production, insiders are pointing out industry trapdoors.
~Snip~
Thacker Pass, Nev., has the largest hard rock lithium reserve in the United States. (Lithium Americas)
Due to the potentially dangerous chemistry of lithium-ion EV units, concrete solutions are needed before an avalanche of dead battery packs ends up sitting around and waiting for recycling like ticking time bombs.
Those working on the sales end of the EV revolution tend to squirm or offer vague generalities when queried about what will happen to all of the old batteries.
The notion is quickly lumped into the very broad category of recycling or second life applications without offering any planning details.
Second life applications are an option for EV batteries no longer fit to power cars, but are suitable for alternative uses like energy storage.
And while that’s a start, the ultimate question lingers: How can America effectively deal with millions of completely spent, defective, or recalled EV units?
For people who specialize in hazardous waste, handling lithium batteries is a serious subject.

A ‘Thermal Runaway’​

“The packing and logistics isn’t easy or cheap,” Thibodeau said.
Moreover, the batteries pose a significant fire hazard.
Tucked within the sprawling Chicago suburbs is the town of Morris, Illinois. Around midday on Jun. 29, 2021, the fire department received a call that a warehouse fire had broken out in a structure that many residents assumed was just an abandoned building. The call came from someone who claimed to be an employee for a company that was storing 200,000 pounds of batteries in the building, most of which were lithium.
Fire Chief Tracey Steffes told reporters that it was the first time his department had ever fought a lithium fire.
Mitigating traditional fires is done by using water or chemicals to cut off the supply of oxygen. However, lithium is unique in that it doesn’t require oxygen to burn. Once ignited, it creates what Thibodeau called a “thermal runaway,” which is incredibly challenging to control.

Commentary:
Not to worry, the EPA will pass revisions to 40 CFR Part 273 regarding disposal of Li batts that will raise the cost of disposal and the overall price of EV's and all products using Li Batts.
First off, the cars don't last as long as ICE vehicles, because it costs significant amounts to replace the battery after 80-100,000 miles. When the cars get older, they won't be worth replacing the batteries - the whole car will get junked early.
Secondly, no one has considered the cost and energy required to recycle or disposal of the batteries - that kills any efficiency gained over the life of the vehicle.
EV's are a disaster and anybody that has a jalf a brain and thinkslogically knows that.

Thermal runaway. That’s a laugh. Not one person has been killed by fire from an EV battery. Thousands during that same time have been killed by fires caused by cars powered by internal combustion engines. No fire disaster exists except in fear mongering. EVs ? All cars are powered and managed by electricity, even gasoline powered cars. You want to go back to role up windows ?

 

[Cellblock2429]

I never understood anyone using the Epoch times as a link when the paper doesn't let you read it without a subscription!

/——/ Ever hear of the NT Times?

 

[Dagosa]

Millions Of Electric Car Batteries Retiring By 2030, Are We Ready To Deal With What Could Be Ticking Time Bombs?

Millions of Electric Car Batteries Retiring by 2030, Are We Ready To Deal With What Could Be Ticking Time Bombs?

www.theepochtimes.com

10 Sep 2022 ~~ By Autumn Spreadmann

The evolving landscape of lithium batteries is creating both contradictions and infrastructure hurdles that, according to some, need to be addressed sooner rather than later. A critical component of this is waste management.
More than 6 million electric vehicle (EV) battery packs will end up as scrap between now and 2030, and the recycling and reuse industries are racing to keep up. Some researchers project that recycling alone will be an over $12 billion industry by 2025.
U.S. President Joe Biden wants to make America a key player in the EV battery industry with a $3.1 billion spending package for automobile production to transition away from fossil fuels.
Much of this dream is pinned on a dusty stretch of soil in the Nevada high desert called Thacker Pass. It serves as the lynchpin in Biden’s push for increased domestic lithium production and more EV batteries. That’s because Thacker Pass is the largest hard rock lithium reserve in the United States.
Currently, China dominates the world’s EV battery production, with more than 80 percent of all units developed there.
Yet while Biden’s administration has its sights on the top spot for EV battery production, insiders are pointing out industry trapdoors.
~Snip~
Thacker Pass, Nev., has the largest hard rock lithium reserve in the United States. (Lithium Americas)
Due to the potentially dangerous chemistry of lithium-ion EV units, concrete solutions are needed before an avalanche of dead battery packs ends up sitting around and waiting for recycling like ticking time bombs.
Those working on the sales end of the EV revolution tend to squirm or offer vague generalities when queried about what will happen to all of the old batteries.
The notion is quickly lumped into the very broad category of recycling or second life applications without offering any planning details.
Second life applications are an option for EV batteries no longer fit to power cars, but are suitable for alternative uses like energy storage.
And while that’s a start, the ultimate question lingers: How can America effectively deal with millions of completely spent, defective, or recalled EV units?
For people who specialize in hazardous waste, handling lithium batteries is a serious subject.

A ‘Thermal Runaway’​

“The packing and logistics isn’t easy or cheap,” Thibodeau said.
Moreover, the batteries pose a significant fire hazard.
Tucked within the sprawling Chicago suburbs is the town of Morris, Illinois. Around midday on Jun. 29, 2021, the fire department received a call that a warehouse fire had broken out in a structure that many residents assumed was just an abandoned building. The call came from someone who claimed to be an employee for a company that was storing 200,000 pounds of batteries in the building, most of which were lithium.
Fire Chief Tracey Steffes told reporters that it was the first time his department had ever fought a lithium fire.
Mitigating traditional fires is done by using water or chemicals to cut off the supply of oxygen. However, lithium is unique in that it doesn’t require oxygen to burn. Once ignited, it creates what Thibodeau called a “thermal runaway,” which is incredibly challenging to control.

Commentary:
Not to worry, the EPA will pass revisions to 40 CFR Part 273 regarding disposal of Li batts that will raise the cost of disposal and the overall price of EV's and all products using Li Batts.
First off, the cars don't last as long as ICE vehicles, because it costs significant amounts to replace the battery after 80-100,000 miles. When the cars get older, they won't be worth replacing the batteries - the whole car will get junked early.
Secondly, no one has considered the cost and energy required to recycle or disposal of the batteries - that kills any efficiency gained over the life of the vehicle.
EV's are a disaster and anybody that has a jalf a brain and thinkslogically knows that.

Really ? My PHbattery is warranted to not lose more than 18% efficiency for ten years or 150k miles.

the whole car will get junked early.

No it won’t be. The only reason cars are junked, is because of rust.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Thermal runaway. That’s a laugh. Not one person has been killed by fire from an EV battery. Thousands during that same time have been killed by fires caused by cars powered by internal combustion engines. No fire disaster exists except in fear mongering. EVs ? All cars are powered and managed by electricity, even gasoline powered cars. You want to go back to role up windows ?

In June 2023, a guy lost his wife and both kids in a house fire due to an e-bike lithium battery -

Devastated dad whose wife and children died in e-bike battery fire demands law change

Scott Peden says he ‘lost his world’ when a charging e-bike battery exploded in his home

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Crick]

In June 2023, a guy lost his wife and both kids in a house fire due to an e-bike lithium battery -

Devastated dad whose wife and children died in e-bike battery fire demands law change

Scott Peden says he ‘lost his world’ when a charging e-bike battery exploded in his home

www.independent.co.uk

That was tragic, but the rate of fires in ICE cars is still several times greater than the rate of fires in EVs.

 

[Captain Caveman]

That was tragic, but the rate of fires in ICE cars is still several times greater than the rate of fires in EVs.

Is that because there's many more ICE vehicles than EV's!

The difference being, the ferocity of a lithium battery fire. They also can reignite for days afterwards. The implications surrounding insurance, underground car parks etc.. is waking up to and changing due to EV's. The day will come where you tick the box on your car insurance, "EV will be kept in garage", and your quote will come back, "Insurance declined".

 

[Dagosa]

In June 2023, a guy lost his wife and both kids in a house fire due to an e-bike lithium battery -

Devastated dad whose wife and children died in e-bike battery fire demands law change

Scott Peden says he ‘lost his world’ when a charging e-bike battery exploded in his home

www.independent.co.uk

Wow, you found ONE. Compared to how many deaths from gasoline fires in vehicles, boats, recreation vehicles or just gasoline stored in the garage. Get real. You‘re blowing smoke out your arse. You’re 100 times more likely to die in a gasoline fire than a battery induced fire.
They use batteries to power pacemakers in your body. Tell us why they don’t use a gasoline powered generator ? Continue making up shit,

 

[Crick]

Is that because there's many more ICE vehicles than EV's!

No. That's why I used the term "rate".

The difference being, the ferocity of a lithium battery fire.

They are. But they don't flow like gasoline nor produce explosive vapors.

They also can reignite for days afterwards.

So do wood fires in homes and forests.

The implications surrounding insurance, underground car parks etc.. is waking up to and changing due to EV's.

Given the dramatically lower rate at which they catch fire, I suspect insurance rates would go down.

The day will come where you tick the box on your car insurance, "EV will be kept in garage", and your quote will come back, "Insurance declined".

That isn't true now and the more of them in people's garages the less chance the insurance industry would take such an action.

 

[Dagosa]

In June 2023, a guy lost his wife and both kids in a house fire due to an e-bike lithium battery -

Devastated dad whose wife and children died in e-bike battery fire demands law change

Scott Peden says he ‘lost his world’ when a charging e-bike battery exploded in his home

www.independent.co.uk

An ebike is not an EV. They are two totally different situations. EVs with lithium batteries have battery cooling systems and a computer controlled conditioning functions,so batteries are kept in a particular function range. If they fail, the entire system shuts down. A light comes on and you call for service. You exit the car. If it’s an accident and the system is damaged, it shuts down. You have time to exit the car. If you’re injured, you would be too in a gas fire which ignites spontaneously….leaving little time.

if a lithium batter in an e- bike sets fire, it would have in one of your battery powered tools. Why aren’t you complaining about them as well ? The fire rates for battery powered equipment is so much less then that for gasoline powered equipment, it’s not even note worthy. Ebikes battery fire, is a defective battery or improper storage, charging procedure or damage components. Same for,the battery in your trimmer or leaf blower.

 

[Dagosa]

Is that because there's many more ICE vehicles than EV's!

The difference being, the ferocity of a lithium battery fire. They also can reignite for days afterwards. The implications surrounding insurance, underground car parks etc.. is waking up to and changing due to EV's. The day will come where you tick the box on your car insurance, "EV will be kept in garage", and your quote will come back, "Insurance declined".

You aren’t familiar with the term “ rate” are you ?
You keep your gas cars in garages. You keep gasoline which is MORE flammable then batteries in a garage. Battery fires have always happened, even before lithium. As a matterof fact, they emit gas which can cause them to explode which means you keep them in wel, ventilated and cool,areas. Why weren’t you complaining about them then ?

 

[Captain Caveman]

No. That's why I used the term "rate".

They are. But they don't flow like gasoline nor produce explosive vapors.

So do wood fires in homes and forests.

Given the dramatically lower rate at which they catch fire, I suspect insurance rates would go down.

That isn't true now and the more of them in people's garages the less chance the insurance industry would take such an action.

EV fires produce highly toxic vapour clouds. They can reignite days and weeks afterwards. When an EV has a bump, insurance companies are not taking the risk and writing the cars off because of the battery. Guidance on carparks, old and future, have been given issued. The EV ban in underground car parks maybe starting -

Fire Danger: Underground Parking Lot Bans Electric Vehicles

Heat and fire rise. What does this mean for underground garages housing electric vehicles? We know that electric vehicle battery fires are difficult to

www.motorbiscuit.com

The reason being is, fire services tend to let EV's burn as they're difficult to extinguish. The alternative is to crane them to somewhere else, you can't do that in an underground car park. The heat off an EV fire would destroy the reinforced concrete.

Insurance for EV's is s going through the ceiling -

âThe quotes were £5,000 or moreâ: electric vehicle owners face soaring insurance costs

Drivers who ditched petrol and diesel to help save the planet face huge price rises in premiums

www.theguardian.com

Anyone daft enough to charge an EV or e-bike in their house/garage, should check their home and car insurance to make sure they're covered -

Understanding electric vehicle battery fires—and what to do if one happens at home

Navigate EV battery fires at home: Car or homeowner insurance? Get insights on coverage for unexpected incidents.

www.cheapinsurance.com

Links to your opinions would be good.

 

[Dagosa]

EV fires produce highly toxic vapour clouds. They can reignite days and weeks afterwards. When an EV has a bump, insurance companies are not taking the risk and writing the cars off because of the battery. Guidance on carparks, old and future, have been given issued. The EV ban in underground car parks maybe starting -

Fire Danger: Underground Parking Lot Bans Electric Vehicles

Heat and fire rise. What does this mean for underground garages housing electric vehicles? We know that electric vehicle battery fires are difficult to

www.motorbiscuit.com

The reason being is, fire services tend to let EV's burn as they're difficult to extinguish. The alternative is to crane them to somewhere else, you can't do that in an underground car park. The heat off an EV fire would destroy the reinforced concrete.

Insurance for EV's is s going through the ceiling -

âThe quotes were £5,000 or moreâ: electric vehicle owners face soaring insurance costs

Drivers who ditched petrol and diesel to help save the planet face huge price rises in premiums

www.theguardian.com

Anyone daft enough to charge an EV or e-bike in their house/garage, should check their home and car insurance to make sure they're covered -

Understanding electric vehicle battery fires—and what to do if one happens at home

Navigate EV battery fires at home: Car or homeowner insurance? Get insights on coverage for unexpected incidents.

www.cheapinsurance.com

Links to your opinions would be good.

No diferent that the to Ic gas produced by the lead acid battery in EVERY ONES car. Aamof, most gasoline fires in cars are started by the electric system instigated by battery charging. You aren’t that smart that you can’t look at the death rates in EVs compared to ICE cars.
“

Anyone daft enough to charge an EV or e-bike in their house/garage, should check their home and car insurance to make sure they're covered -

Hilarious. They are TOTALLY DIFFERENT. You obviously have no battery operated tools do you ? They use the same protocol for charging as an Ebike which is NOT AN EV.
Yet, you change batteries all the time….you have a cell phone, iPad ?. How many times have they caught fire ?
An EV has a managed cooling system, power tools and ebikes don’t. You have a reading problem ?

 

[Dagosa]

An ebike is not an EV. They are two totally different situations. EVs with lithium batteries have battery cooling systems and a computer controlled conditioning functions,so batteries are kept in a particular function range. If they fail, the entire system shuts down. A light comes on and you call for service. You exit the car. If it’s an accident and the system is damaged, it shuts down. You have time to exit the car. If you’re injured, you would be too in a gas fire which ignites spontaneously….leaving little time.

if a lithium batter in an e- bike sets fire, it would have in one of your battery powered tools. Why aren’t you complaining about them as well ? The fire rates for battery powered equipment is so much less then that for gasoline powered equipment, it’s not even note worthy. Ebikes battery fire, is a defective battery or improper storage, charging procedure or damage components. Same for,the battery in your trimmer or leaf blower.

In a couple of years when sodium batteries come on line and are completely safe, what will you complain about then ?

 

[Captain Caveman]

No diferent that the to Ic gas produced by the lead acid battery in EVERY ONES car. Aamof, most gasoline fires in cars are started by the electric system instigated by battery charging. You aren’t that smart that you can’t look at the death rates in EVs compared to ICE cars.
“

Hilarious. They are TOTALLY DIFFERENT. You obviously have no battery operated tools do you ? They use the same protocol for charging as an Ebike which is NOT AN EV.
Yet, you change batteries all the time….you have a cell phone, iPad ?. How many times have they caught fire ?
An EV has a managed cooling system, power tools and ebikes don’t. You have a reading problem ?

I think you have the reading problem, my reply wasn't to you.

The insurance company will likely void a claim if the charger wasn't installed by a qualified person. It tends to be overcharging/faulty charges that are causing problems.

Either way, I'll be retired and nowhere near these Micky Mouse toys.

As for battery tools. All 18v Makita; angle grinder, drill, impact wrench, drywall cutter, torch, radio, angle drill, biscuit jointer, a single charger and a double charger. I will take a photo of them tomorrow and post it here for you. I will place your forum name on a piece of paper amongst them to show you how badly you are in guessing other posters.

 

[Dagosa]

I think you have the reading problem, my reply wasn't to you.

The insurance company will likely void a claim if the charger wasn't installed by a qualified person. It tends to be overcharging/faulty charges that are causing problems.

Either way, I'll be retired and nowhere near these Micky Mouse toys.

As for battery tools. All 18v Makita; angle grinder, drill, impact wrench, drywall cutter, torch, radio, angle drill, biscuit jointer, a single charger and a double charger. I will take a photo of them tomorrow and post it here for you. I will place your forum name on a piece of paper amongst them to show you how badly you are in guessing other posters.

Exactly…Most problems occur during charging . It’s no different than charging any battery. It’s done in a well ventilated area. So we all have a few battery powered tools. Welcome to the 21st century. But still, an ebike isn’t an EV and the management system is completely different. Still, we should be changing EVs in open areas.

Is a diesel electric locomotive a Mickey Mouse toy ?,
The idea is run land vehicles with electric motors. All electricity is fungible, fuel oil isn’t. It’s going to happen. Are their problems in the mean time ? Of course, just like there were big problems going from the horse to ICE engine and all the wars that are fought over fossil fuels.

 

[Crick]

EV fires produce highly toxic vapour clouds. They can reignite days and weeks afterwards. When an EV has a bump, insurance companies are not taking the risk and writing the cars off because of the battery. Guidance on carparks, old and future, have been given issued. The EV ban in underground car parks maybe starting -

Fire Danger: Underground Parking Lot Bans Electric Vehicles

Heat and fire rise. What does this mean for underground garages housing electric vehicles? We know that electric vehicle battery fires are difficult to

www.motorbiscuit.com

The reason being is, fire services tend to let EV's burn as they're difficult to extinguish. The alternative is to crane them to somewhere else, you can't do that in an underground car park. The heat off an EV fire would destroy the reinforced concrete.

Insurance for EV's is s going through the ceiling -

âThe quotes were £5,000 or moreâ: electric vehicle owners face soaring insurance costs

Drivers who ditched petrol and diesel to help save the planet face huge price rises in premiums

www.theguardian.com

Anyone daft enough to charge an EV or e-bike in their house/garage, should check their home and car insurance to make sure they're covered -

Understanding electric vehicle battery fires—and what to do if one happens at home

Navigate EV battery fires at home: Car or homeowner insurance? Get insights on coverage for unexpected incidents.

www.cheapinsurance.com

Links to your opinions would be good.

Forbes found EV insurance cost roughly an extra $100 per year and that was due to repair costs, not fires.

Survey shows high EV repairs & insurance costs mean Americans aren’t ready to make the switch

A recent survey of more than 2,000 U.S. consumers found most aren’t ready yet to switch to electric vehicles (EVs) citing list price, lack of charging stations, and battery range anxiety as t…

www.repairerdrivennews.com

 

[Captain Caveman]

Exactly…Most problems occur during charging . It’s no different than charging any battery. It’s done in a well ventilated area. So we all have a few battery powered tools. Welcome to the 21st century. But still, an ebike isn’t an EV and the management system is completely different. Still, we should be changing EVs in open areas.

Is a diesel electric locomotive a Mickey Mouse toy ?,
The idea is run land vehicles with electric motors. All electricity is fungible, fuel oil isn’t. It’s going to happen. Are their problems in the mean time ? Of course, just like there were big problems going from the horse to ICE engine and all the wars that are fought over fossil fuels.

Generally, the diesel/petrol doesn't spontaneously burst into flames, ICE fires tend to be electrical. If you crash and the brake manifold snaps, brake fluid is highly flammable, this catching fire if it contacts a hot exhaust manifold. With EV's the electrics are taken to another level.

Extinguishing an ICE and an EV fire are totally different, as EV's become popular, not only driving habits have to change due to their inconvenience, but where to park/charge them. Yes, don't put the car in the garage on charge, sit it outside in the frost. And hopefully catch the thief before he/she/them steals the charge cable.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Forbes found EV insurance cost roughly an extra $100 per year and that was due to repair costs, not fires.

Survey shows high EV repairs & insurance costs mean Americans aren’t ready to make the switch

A recent survey of more than 2,000 U.S. consumers found most aren’t ready yet to switch to electric vehicles (EVs) citing list price, lack of charging stations, and battery range anxiety as t…

www.repairerdrivennews.com

Not in the UK though.

I think some here are trying to pigeon hole me into some kind of position with EV's. I don't support or promote ICE or EV fires, I just state facts on those types of fires. I don't take a stance on insurance, I'm stating facts on EV insurance in the UK.

Which type, ICE or EV, will be convenient or more convenient for the majority? ICE, if you look at facts.

 

[badger2]

Generally, the diesel/petrol doesn't spontaneously burst into flames, ICE fires tend to be electrical. If you crash and the brake manifold snaps, brake fluid is highly flammable, this catching fire if it contacts a hot exhaust manifold. With EV's the electrics are taken to another level.

Extinguishing an ICE and an EV fire are totally different, as EV's become popular, not only driving habits have to change due to their inconvenience, but where to park/charge them. Yes, don't put the car in the garage on charge, sit it outside in the frost. And hopefully catch the thief before he/she/them steals the charge cable.

You must try to snap out of British-style thinking. Pre-charged vending machines with security attendants are the future for EV.