Millions Of Electric Car Batteries Retiring By 2030, Are We Ready To Deal With What Could Be Ticking Time Bombs?

Don't EV's have brake and power steering fluid? I'm not aquatinted with their design. I can't see lithium battery recycling being easy and/or cheap. The only difference between an ICE and EV fire in say an accident, is the ferocity of a litium battery fire.

I would love to use my bicycle, but I would struggle to take my tools. The current job, I'm using my petrol cement mixer, wheelbarrow, and tool bucket. I couldn't fit them in my bicycle basket. Plus, cycling 40 miles to that job and then back with those tools is not possible.
EVs have regenerative breaking systems. The difference between conventual breaking systems and regenerative systems is their ability recovery energy lost as heat in the braking process.

Ev's have power steering but it's different than conventional power steering. Electronic sensors pick up the amount of steering force being applied and adds in a proportional amount of additional force to the steering input. Electrical charge is used to rotate the motor and through energy transfer, a lateral force is produced that aids the movement along the steering rack.

Also the heating and a/c system is different. There are lots of other little difference in EVs. Most of those differences reduce the expended energy or recovery energy while delivering the same level of performance as ICEs.
 
Until they standardize battery designs recycling will be problematic.

The Lithium and Ferric Sulfide are kept separate ... why is it a problem keeping them separate? ...

I think we can trust Republicans here ... the Free Market will quickly decide the matter ... she always does ... just look at the insanity for getting a mining permit ...
 
The Lithium and Ferric Sulfide are kept separate ... why is it a problem keeping them separate? ...

I think we can trust Republicans here ... the Free Market will quickly decide the matter ... she always does ... just look at the insanity for getting a mining permit ...
I didn't say it was. I'm saying that manufacturers don't have a standard for battery construction that is designed for recycling or re-purposing used batteries.
 
Millions Of Electric Car Batteries Retiring By 2030, Are We Ready To Deal With What Could Be Ticking Time Bombs?
10 Sep 2022 ~~ By Autumn Spreadmann

The evolving landscape of lithium batteries is creating both contradictions and infrastructure hurdles that, according to some, need to be addressed sooner rather than later. A critical component of this is waste management.
More than 6 million electric vehicle (EV) battery packs will end up as scrap between now and 2030, and the recycling and reuse industries are racing to keep up. Some researchers project that recycling alone will be an over $12 billion industry by 2025.
U.S. President Joe Biden wants to make America a key player in the EV battery industry with a $3.1 billion spending package for automobile production to transition away from fossil fuels.
Much of this dream is pinned on a dusty stretch of soil in the Nevada high desert called Thacker Pass. It serves as the lynchpin in Biden’s push for increased domestic lithium production and more EV batteries. That’s because Thacker Pass is the largest hard rock lithium reserve in the United States.
Currently, China dominates the world’s EV battery production, with more than 80 percent of all units developed there.
Yet while Biden’s administration has its sights on the top spot for EV battery production, insiders are pointing out industry trapdoors.
~Snip~
Thacker Pass, Nev., has the largest hard rock lithium reserve in the United States. (Lithium Americas)
Due to the potentially dangerous chemistry of lithium-ion EV units, concrete solutions are needed before an avalanche of dead battery packs ends up sitting around and waiting for recycling like ticking time bombs.
Those working on the sales end of the EV revolution tend to squirm or offer vague generalities when queried about what will happen to all of the old batteries.
The notion is quickly lumped into the very broad category of recycling or second life applications without offering any planning details.
Second life applications are an option for EV batteries no longer fit to power cars, but are suitable for alternative uses like energy storage.
And while that’s a start, the ultimate question lingers: How can America effectively deal with millions of completely spent, defective, or recalled EV units?
For people who specialize in hazardous waste, handling lithium batteries is a serious subject.

A ‘Thermal Runaway’​

“The packing and logistics isn’t easy or cheap,” Thibodeau said.
Moreover, the batteries pose a significant fire hazard.
Tucked within the sprawling Chicago suburbs is the town of Morris, Illinois. Around midday on Jun. 29, 2021, the fire department received a call that a warehouse fire had broken out in a structure that many residents assumed was just an abandoned building. The call came from someone who claimed to be an employee for a company that was storing 200,000 pounds of batteries in the building, most of which were lithium.
Fire Chief Tracey Steffes told reporters that it was the first time his department had ever fought a lithium fire.
Mitigating traditional fires is done by using water or chemicals to cut off the supply of oxygen. However, lithium is unique in that it doesn’t require oxygen to burn. Once ignited, it creates what Thibodeau called a “thermal runaway,” which is incredibly challenging to control.

Commentary:
Not to worry, the EPA will pass revisions to 40 CFR Part 273 regarding disposal of Li batts that will raise the cost of disposal and the overall price of EV's and all products using Li Batts.
First off, the cars don't last as long as ICE vehicles, because it costs significant amounts to replace the battery after 80-100,000 miles. When the cars get older, they won't be worth replacing the batteries - the whole car will get junked early.
Secondly, no one has considered the cost and energy required to recycle or disposal of the batteries - that kills any efficiency gained over the life of the vehicle.
EV's are a disaster and anybody that has a jalf a brain and thinkslogically knows that.
Well. This will certainly get attention.
That Majickle number guarantees it !
SIX MILLION !!!!!
 
I understood that ... did you read the part about the Free Market correcting that tiny small issue? ... to wit:

No, but I just scanned it and didn't see how the Thacker Pass Mine addressed manufacturers not having a standard for battery construction that is designed for recycling or re-purposing used batteries. What did I miss?
 
No, but I just scanned it and didn't see how the Thacker Pass Mine addressed manufacturers not having a standard for battery construction that is designed for recycling or re-purposing used batteries. What did I miss?

The costs for litigation ... compared to recycling ... and I believe Europe will require recyclability ... are you seriously claiming that hiring lawyers is cheaper than hiring recycling grunts? ...

Just exactly what extra costs are there for the various lithium battery recycling? ... start with Tesla's batteries ... because Thacker Pass folk are paying millions of dollars and we haven't dug up a single sagebrush ... without lithium, we won't need to recycle it ... now will we? ...

Who the fuck protects sagebrush? ...
 
The costs for litigation ... compared to recycling ... and I believe Europe will require recyclability ... are you seriously claiming that hiring lawyers is cheaper than hiring recycling grunts? ...

Just exactly what extra costs are there for the various lithium battery recycling? ... start with Tesla's batteries ... because Thacker Pass folk are paying millions of dollars and we haven't dug up a single sagebrush ... without lithium, we won't need to recycle it ... now will we? ...

Who the fuck protects sagebrush? ...
Not at all. I'm arguing that recycling won't really be viable until their processes can be standardized which requires the batteries to be standardized. What do you have against sagebrush anyway :dunno:
 
View attachment 694254

Sh.h..h...h...:eusa_shhh: You're getting ahead of the next national emergency that'll cost trillions of dollars to solve.

*****SMILE*****



:)

Damn, more dumb fuckery from the same old dumb fucks. Were you to find an ore as rich in the metals in present lithium ion batteries, you would consider it a very rich ore, indeed. As the number of batteries growing old increases, there will be fortunes to be made recycling them. Another point, these batteries are not dead when they are no longer have enough range left for and EV. A 100 kha battery that has degraded to 70 kwh is still very useful as a battery backup for a residential solar system.

 
The costs for litigation ... compared to recycling ... and I believe Europe will require recyclability ... are you seriously claiming that hiring lawyers is cheaper than hiring recycling grunts? ...

Just exactly what extra costs are there for the various lithium battery recycling? ... start with Tesla's batteries ... because Thacker Pass folk are paying millions of dollars and we haven't dug up a single sagebrush ... without lithium, we won't need to recycle it ... now will we? ...

Who the fuck protects sagebrush? ...
For some folks ignorance is bliss. There are already other kinds of batteries being manufactured. Sodium sulfur is just one, and many require very common elements, far cheaper than lithium, nickel, and cobalt. Some have the potential to provide 2 to 4 times the energy density of the present lithium ion, and are far less costly to produce. The EV's are here to stay, and will push ICE vehicles out of the market.
 
The costs for litigation ... compared to recycling ... and I believe Europe will require recyclability ... are you seriously claiming that hiring lawyers is cheaper than hiring recycling grunts? ...

Just exactly what extra costs are there for the various lithium battery recycling? ... start with Tesla's batteries ... because Thacker Pass folk are paying millions of dollars and we haven't dug up a single sagebrush ... without lithium, we won't need to recycle it ... now will we? ...

Who the fuck protects sagebrush? ...
Present costs;

 
Not at all. I'm arguing that recycling won't really be viable until their processes can be standardized which requires the batteries to be standardized. What do you have against sagebrush anyway :dunno:

Why? ... we recycle metals with out standardization ...

Have you ever lived in that particular Sage Desert? ... I have ... the terrain is as nasty as the people ... mercury poisoning ... there's nothing left of the natural environment, so might as well mine the resources there ...

Why do you think hiring lawyers is cheaper than recycling batteries? ... that seems stupid to me ... ship the damn things to China and let the slave labor there deal with the problem ... the lawyers, not the batteries ...
 
Why? ... we recycle metals with out standardization ...

Have you ever lived in that particular Sage Desert? ... I have ... the terrain is as nasty as the people ... mercury poisoning ... there's nothing left of the natural environment, so might as well mine the resources there ...

Why do you think hiring lawyers is cheaper than recycling batteries? ... that seems stupid to me ... ship the damn things to China and let the slave labor there deal with the problem ... the lawyers, not the batteries ...
Lived near there in the mountains. Thacker Pass is in the McDermitt Caldera, and, yes, there are mercury mines in that caldera, as well as uranium mines. There are other calderas to be prospected in Oregon and Nevada that have similar geological histories. It is possible that is Oregon and Nevada we have major lithium deposits. One has to remember when you are talking of these calderas, you are speaking of some very large structures, with varying minerology within the caldera and adjacent to it.

People certainly see the land differently. I love the high dessert and go there as often as I can.
 
Lived near there in the mountains. Thacker Pass is in the McDermitt Caldera, and, yes, there are mercury mines in that caldera, as well as uranium mines. There are other calderas to be prospected in Oregon and Nevada that have similar geological histories. It is possible that is Oregon and Nevada we have major lithium deposits. One has to remember when you are talking of these calderas, you are speaking of some very large structures, with varying minerology within the caldera and adjacent to it.

People certainly see the land differently. I love the high dessert and go there as often as I can.

I thought the lithium deposits were found in the playas scattered throughout desert regions ... of which Eastern Oregon and Nevada are full of ... some big ones too ... Bonneville Salt Flats in Utah ... Edwards Air Force Base in California ...

The mercury comes from the cement plants ... it's part of the limestone matrix and so far there's no cost-effective way to filter the vapors out while the cement cooks ... so the mercury is just vented to the environment ...

My mother was a weightmaster working the Port-of-Entry there along I-84, she always loved the assignment down on US-95 coming in from California ... Jordan Valley ... right near Thacker Pass ... I understand the charm ... but personally dislike such ... I'd rather deal with 15 months of rain per year here westside ... everything stays green and growing all the time ... like Costa Rica ...
 
Why? ... we recycle metals with out standardization ...
Because it's proper engineering for which the benefits are many. This would be especially true for something being envisioned on a global scale. It shouldn't even be a question.
 
I thought the lithium deposits were found in the playas scattered throughout desert regions ... of which Eastern Oregon and Nevada are full of ... some big ones too ... Bonneville Salt Flats in Utah ... Edwards Air Force Base in California ...

The mercury comes from the cement plants ... it's part of the limestone matrix and so far there's no cost-effective way to filter the vapors out while the cement cooks ... so the mercury is just vented to the environment ...

My mother was a weightmaster working the Port-of-Entry there along I-84, she always loved the assignment down on US-95 coming in from California ... Jordan Valley ... right near Thacker Pass ... I understand the charm ... but personally dislike such ... I'd rather deal with 15 months of rain per year here westside ... everything stays green and growing all the time ... like Costa Rica ...
Yes, that concrete plant is a problem. Also, there are enough natural sources of mercury in that area, that some areas have birds that have enough mercury in them that eating too many of them is not healthy.

The calderas that trace the path of the Yellowstone Hotspot emitted rhyolitic ash. By creating depressions, the water would leach lithium from surrounding ash deposits and run down into the basins. There it would enrich the ash deposits with lithium. And the ash would weather into clay, creating the lithium rich clays like those in Thacker Pass. In the recent geological history of Oregon and Nevada, there were many rhyolite ashfalls, and many basins with high outlets that had the potential to create these enriched layers.
 
Because it's proper engineering for which the benefits are many. This would be especially true for something being envisioned on a global scale. It shouldn't even be a question.
It will be a while before with see just one kind of battery. And it may be nothing like the present lithium ion battery. So many ideas being tested now in labs all over the world, that is is very hard to predict or pick the technology that will become the successor to the standard lead acid battery.
 
Damn, more dumb fuckery from the same old dumb fucks. Were you to find an ore as rich in the metals in present lithium ion batteries, you would consider it a very rich ore, indeed. As the number of batteries growing old increases, there will be fortunes to be made recycling them. Another point, these batteries are not dead when they are no longer have enough range left for and EV. A 100 kha battery that has degraded to 70 kwh is still very useful as a battery backup for a residential solar system.


th


Oh I'm sure your belief in that is as valid as the current recyclability of wind mill blades.

*****CHUCKLE*****



:)
 
th


Oh I'm sure your belief in that is as valid as the current recyclability of wind mill blades.

*****CHUCKLE*****



:)

Since both here and in Europe, they are starting to recycle the blades, all I see in your posts is the standard cry from idiot "Conservatives", "No, we can't". Such a bunch of sad sacks.
 

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