Michelle Obama: 'It Is Our Responsibility As a Nation' to Remember the Slaves

[rightwinger]

Oh I should put up this link for those that don't know about how many Irish were enslaved by the British.


The Irish Slave Trade


The early slave trade in the 1600s is well documented with misery inflicted upon possibly up to 11 million people torn forcibly from West Africa to labour in appalling conditions in the the United States and the Caribbean.

History Journal has uncovered fascinating research into the role of Irish people exposed to the same suffering in the early

slave trade with Irish deportees and indentured servants sent to the same dreadful conditions initially in Antigua and Monserrat and later in Barbados and the United States.

From the early 1600s to 1800 many 1000s of Irish people were sent to slave conditions in the carribean and US as part of the trade in human labour that marked the start of the slave trade.

Irish and african people suffered under dreadful conditions in Barbados, Antigua, the southern states of the US and Brazil. The legacy of this trade in Irish people still remains today with a strong Irish mark left on the culture of the Carribean.

The Irish Slave Trade

Which has what to do with the statements Michelle Obama made regarding the Emancipation Proclamation?

Are you claiming equivalence of tens of millions of black slaves in this country?

First and foremost that was a post that I should have included with another when Sunshine and I were discussing "race" as an issue when it came to slavery.

ETA: And obviously I need to point this out to you again...a slave is a slave is a slave. Color doesn't matter when they were whipped because every one of them bled red.

But I have to ask where on earth are you getting your figure of "tens of millions of black slaves " specifically in America.

Seriously, where on earth do you come up with that? Or are you referring to maybe the total number of Africans enslaved in the New World?

At the time of the Civil War there were almost 4 million slaves. That was 1860. Black slaves were in the country since 1620, a period of over 200 years which would mean tens of millions of black slaves vs the thousands of Irish you claim are somehow the equivalent when you whine...


Whites were slaves too!

 

[deltex1]

Slavery is the best thing that ever happened to the Africans...otherwise they would still be Africans, living in huts like obabbles brother...

 

[The Breeze]

Slavery is the best thing that ever happened to the Africans...otherwise they would still be Africans, living in huts like obabbles brother...

Dude, Lol.

 

[The Breeze]

Still bitchin and moanin about the last 150 yrs when they'd be better served worrying the next 150 yrs.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

All this rehashing of slavery is fascinating.....and useful. Lol

 

[Staidhup]

Don't worry, we will always be reminded of our transgressions.

 

[Kondor3]

"...You kept bringing up the south in your post. The North was built by the slave trade as well..."

Hmmmm... I was wondering whether you might have such a 'canned' laundry list up your sleeve but its 'canned' state does not detract from what the laundry list can tell us, and you were right to bring it up, or something similar - thank you for that.

I think it might be more fair to say that the Black Slave Trade had some durable wealth-building impact upon the North, but that impact varied wildly based upon the location and the times and circumstances of war and peace and the like, and that its impact, taken as a whole, represented only a quite modest percentage of all economic activity of the North, and that it is disingenuous and inaccurate to portray the Black Slave Trade and Black Labor as being the primary driver or factor in the economic life and outputs of the North.

Your points about the Shipping Magnates and Builders and Crews and Outfitters and Agents and Factors and all related supportive activity is very well made and entirely accurate and signify as truth to any logical and honest person of goodwill. We appear to differ more about the scope or scale or degree than we do anything else.

You would say: Blacks built the North. I would say: A piece. Not much, but a piece.

But I understand there is room for both varying personal opinion and the leveraging of ancient data to support either position.

Thanks - sincerely - for the 'refresher' on other aspects of The Contribution.

 

[dblack]

All this rehashing of slavery is fascinating.....and useful. Lol

I think it is. Reviewing history informs pretty much everything we do.

 

[rightwinger]

Slavery is the best thing that ever happened to the Africans...otherwise they would still be Africans, living in huts like obabbles brother...

Imagine if they had been paid the same wages as white settlers

 

[tinydancer]

"...You kept bringing up the south in your post. The North was built by the slave trade as well..."

Hmmmm... I was wondering whether you might have such a 'canned' laundry list up your sleeve but its 'canned' state does not detract from what the laundry list can tell us, and you were right to bring it up, or something similar - thank you for that.

I think it might be more fair to say that the Black Slave Trade had some durable wealth-building impact upon the North, but that impact varied wildly based upon the location and the times and circumstances of war and peace and the like, and that its impact, taken as a whole, represented only a quite modest percentage of all economic activity of the North, and that it is disingenuous and inaccurate to portray the Black Slave Trade and Black Labor as being the primary driver or factor in the economic life and outputs of the North.

Your points about the Shipping Magnates and Builders and Crews and Outfitters and Agents and Factors and all related supportive activity is very well made and entirely accurate and signify as truth to any logical and honest person of goodwill. We appear to differ more about the scope or scale or degree than we do anything else.

You would say: Blacks built the North. I would say: A piece. Not much, but a piece.

But I understand there is room for both varying personal opinion and the leveraging of ancient data to support either position.

Thanks - sincerely - for the 'refresher' on other aspects of The Contribution.

I think that with very few exceptions there were so few regions in the developing new world that did not have dirty hands when it came to slave trade.

Truly an appalling part of new world history. That's why I added this part because I wasn't trying to play a north vs south game.

ETA: I'm not giving the south a pass here. I'm an "equal opportunity" basher when it comes to slavery. I still don't understand the mindset that would allow someone to think they can own another. Just so wrong.

 

[deltex1]

Slavery is the best thing that ever happened to the Africans...otherwise they would still be Africans, living in huts like obabbles brother...

Imagine if they had been paid the same wages as white settlers

They still are not...and whose fault is that?

 

[Kondor3]

Slavery is the best thing that ever happened to the Africans...otherwise they would still be Africans, living in huts like obabbles brother...

Imagine if they had been paid the same wages as white settlers

That requires some serious Suspension-of-Belief in several areas, but, what the heck...

Had that been the case...

Building would have proceeded more slowly and a higher percentage of Americans would still be in blue-collar trades today because we would be 'behind schedule' in our building vis-a-vis where we are today...

Not to mention the zillion-and-one time paradox-es that would come with screwing with the timeline like that...

Little things like... the Civil War never taking place...

Sounds like some kind of weird spin on a Harry Turtledove Alternative Timeline History novel... ;-)

 

[Kondor3]

Slavery is the best thing that ever happened to the Africans...otherwise they would still be Africans, living in huts like obabbles brother...

Imagine if they had been paid the same wages as white settlers

They still are not...and whose fault is that?

Blacks are not paid equally to whites?

 

[rightwinger]

Slavery is the best thing that ever happened to the Africans...otherwise they would still be Africans, living in huts like obabbles brother...

Imagine if they had been paid the same wages as white settlers

That requires some serious Suspension-of-Belief in several areas, but, what the heck...

Had that been the case...

Building would have proceeded more slowly and a higher percentage of Americans would still be in blue-collar trades today because we would be 'behind schedule' in our building vis-a-vis where we are today...

Not to mention the zillion-and-one time paradox-es that would come with screwing with the timeline like that...

Little things like... the Civil War never taking place...

Sounds like some kind of weird spin on a Harry Turtledove Alternative Timeline History novel... ;-)

Ever read "Guns of the South" ?

It's a what if the South had AK-47s

 

[tinydancer]

Which has what to do with the statements Michelle Obama made regarding the Emancipation Proclamation?

Are you claiming equivalence of tens of millions of black slaves in this country?

First and foremost that was a post that I should have included with another when Sunshine and I were discussing "race" as an issue when it came to slavery.

ETA: And obviously I need to point this out to you again...a slave is a slave is a slave. Color doesn't matter when they were whipped because every one of them bled red.

But I have to ask where on earth are you getting your figure of "tens of millions of black slaves " specifically in America.

Seriously, where on earth do you come up with that? Or are you referring to maybe the total number of Africans enslaved in the New World?

At the time of the Civil War there were almost 4 million slaves. That was 1860. Black slaves were in the country since 1620, a period of over 200 years which would mean tens of millions of black slaves vs the thousands of Irish you claim are somehow the equivalent when you whine...


Whites were slaves too!

Who's whining? I'm discussing history.

And I'm not pitting white vs black vs asian slaves.

And I'm not putting one slave's color above anothers.

And I'm not putting one slave's suffering and horrid existence above anothers.

There was a pitiful equality in their misery.

Again sir. A slave is a slave is a slave.

Very quickly from wiki, I just pulled up these figures.

Slaves imported to American colonies

Date Numbers
1620–1700 21,000
1701–1760 189,000
1761–1770 63,000
1771–1790 56,000
1791–1800 79,000
1801–1810 124,000[8]
1810–1865 51,000
Total 597,000

Of course their numbers grew over the years.

Although the international slave trade was prohibited from 1808, internal slave-trading continued apace, and the slave population would eventually peak at four million before abolition

Slavery in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[rightwinger]

First and foremost that was a post that I should have included with another when Sunshine and I were discussing "race" as an issue when it came to slavery.

ETA: And obviously I need to point this out to you again...a slave is a slave is a slave. Color doesn't matter when they were whipped because every one of them bled red.

But I have to ask where on earth are you getting your figure of "tens of millions of black slaves " specifically in America.

Seriously, where on earth do you come up with that? Or are you referring to maybe the total number of Africans enslaved in the New World?

At the time of the Civil War there were almost 4 million slaves. That was 1860. Black slaves were in the country since 1620, a period of over 200 years which would mean tens of millions of black slaves vs the thousands of Irish you claim are somehow the equivalent when you whine...


Whites were slaves too!

Who's whining? I'm discussing history.

And I'm not pitting white vs black vs asian slaves.

And I'm not putting one slave's color above anothers.

And I'm not putting one slave's suffering and horrid existence above anothers.

There was a pitiful equality in their misery.

Again sir. A slave is a slave is a slave.

Very quickly from wiki, I just pulled up these figures.

Slaves imported to American colonies

Date Numbers
1620–1700 21,000
1701–1760 189,000
1761–1770 63,000
1771–1790 56,000
1791–1800 79,000
1801–1810 124,000[8]
1810–1865 51,000
Total 597,000

Of course their numbers grew over the years.

Although the international slave trade was prohibited from 1808, internal slave-trading continued apace, and the slave population would eventually peak at four million before abolition

Slavery in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Once again, I beg to differ

A slave was not a slave. Your white slaves were indentured servants who sold their labor for seven years in return for passage to America. Once their indenture was over, they were free men who earned a wage. Their children were not sold out from under them and they were not slaves for generations
Indentures suffered under similar conditions to slaves but while slaves were considered no better than animals, whites were still white

 

[Intense]

Moved to Race Relations/Racism

 

[deltex1]

Imagine if they had been paid the same wages as white settlers

They still are not...and whose fault is that?

Blacks are not paid equally to whites?

They get equal pay for equal jobs....but not all jobs are equal...that,s where they lag.......education...

 

[deltex1]

Moved to Race Relations/Racism

You go girl..

 

[Kondor3]

"...Ever read "Guns of the South" ? It's a what if the South had AK-47s"

Only partially...

To tell the truth, I bought 3 or 4 Turtledove alternate-history novels at the local Barnes & Noble a few years ago but never made it all the way through any of them.

Not sure if it was the style or the content or me losing interest or if I was just too busy back then.