Messiah Bin David Messiah Bin Joseph Messiah For All

[Lucy Hamilton]

While the rest of your post is a clear example of how utterly vile Christianity can be and a significant reason why I could never accept Christianity as a personal faith, I wholeheartedly agree with the statement above. Judaism and Christianity are polar opposites. And since Christianity is the dominant faith -- the supercessionist faith -- adopting, changing, usurping and erasing the Jewish rituals and their meaning is dangerous to the Jewish people.

Nobody is changing their rituals, but their rituals should be SEPARATE and NO Christian who accepts Jesus Christ as The Messiah should NOT participate in them, they do NOT participate in ANY Christian ritual including the total rejection of ALL Christian Festivals and Holy Days. I add that I also totally REJECT any participation in any Islamic Festivals, so I am not about to participate in Judaisms Festivals am I?

As a majority of Jews are Athiest and Secular, as a Christian why am I expected to follow them and listen to them and agree with them when they represent EVERYTHING that as a Christian I am against and I feel that any Christian following these Athiest Secular Jews is a danger to that person's soul.

So you say that Christianity is a danger to the Jews and I say yes but the same the other way Athiest and Secular Jews are a danger to Christians, considering for one thing to agree with them in total we would have to agree with them, in the rejection of Jesus Christ as The Messiah, I do not want to condemn my soul to Hell, others make that decision for themselves and I pray for them to see The Light and I wish them luck.

Strangely, we are on the same side here, Lucy.

Although, I think you probably take it too far to say that non-Christians are a danger to Christians. If you are saved, surely having an honest, simple discussion with a Jew is not going to endanger your soul, now, is it? Surely your faith is stronger than that?

I think also we are on the same side.

Well I also think that Islam is a danger to Christians, so it's not just Judaism. No having a simple discussion with a Jew not going to endanger soul, but if they at some point DEMAND that we ALL have to AGREE with them on EVERYTHING that would be a problem, because that would then include we would have to agree with the rejection of Jesus Christ as The Messiah and if this Masiach appear in MY lifetime I will say GTFO when they announce to the planet that THIS is the messiah. I am willing to get beheaded during The End Times IF I am here when it all happens, the choice will be to reject Jesus Christ to follow The Anti-Christ who will have had MEGA PR and be treated like a rock star OR to NOT follow The Anti-Christ and be beheaded. So I will NEVER reject Jesus Christ and I intend if around to go down in a blaze of glory firing my Glock at the Luciferarians.

Lucy, with all due respect, Jews are not allowed to proselytise, and certainly do not challenge Christian faith in conversations. In fact, Jesus is never mentioned, unless undertaken as a scholarly undertaking.

That's really what I want to talk about. I want to hear how Susha sees Messiah, what he believes about Messiah.

I know what Christians think about Messiah. I also want to hear how Jews see prophecies. I don't want to challenge Judaism. If The Old Testament Saints and Prophets are in Heaven, (The New Testament Says This) then Jews are of God.

Like I said, and will say again, it is God's Word that does any kind of work, not me. I am just a vessel, and my job is to seek truth, and to speak truth.

I will tell you one thing, that I find interesting. The Bible, and many Jews may not agree with this, but The New Testament talks about The Vine and The Branches, one being Israel, and the other, The Church that gets grafted on to The Vine. The Vine eventually becomes one. So at some point we will unite together in our Love of God. We may show that love in different ways, but I believe God is ok with that, so long as those ways honor God.

The Bible also talks about Two Olive Trees That Stand Near God as a Witness to Him.
What other two Faiths do you know That Proclaim God and His Goodness than Israel & The Church.

I am just a man, and imperfect man. But there is no greater thing an man can possess than wisdom. Let us seek it, and in doing that, we achieve greater understanding of each other and of God.

I am behind in the thread, in one of your posts you mention the EMP thing - Electromagnetic Pulse and I want to give thoughts on this with the subject of Mystery, Babylon I will do this later. Now the kidlets demand more attention so I go.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

I think also we are on the same side.

Well I also think that Islam is a danger to Christians, so it's not just Judaism. No having a simple discussion with a Jew not going to endanger soul, but if they at some point DEMAND that we ALL have to AGREE with them on EVERYTHING that would be a problem, because that would then include we would have to agree with the rejection of Jesus Christ as The Messiah and if this Masiach appear in MY lifetime I will say GTFO when they announce to the planet that THIS is the messiah. I am willing to get beheaded during The End Times IF I am here when it all happens, the choice will be to reject Jesus Christ to follow The Anti-Christ who will have had MEGA PR and be treated like a rock star OR to NOT follow The Anti-Christ and be beheaded. So I will NEVER reject Jesus Christ and I intend if around to go down in a blaze of glory firing my Glock at the Luciferarians.

Lucy, with all due respect, Jews are not allowed to proselytise, and certainly do not challenge Christian faith in conversations. In fact, Jesus is never mentioned, unless undertaken as a scholarly undertaking.

That's really what I want to talk about. I want to hear how Susha see Messiah, what he believes about Messiah. I know what Christians think about Messiah. I also want to hear how Jews see prophecies. I don't want to challenge Judaism. Like I said, and will say again, it is God's Word that does any kind of work, not me. I am just a vessel, and my job is to seek truth, and to speak truth.

I am a Jew, and I believe the Messiah to be an earthly person. Maybe he is here already.

I think The Anti-Christ is already here or if not The Spirit of The Anti-Christ is here, we see this EVERY day The Anti-Christ Agenda is happening, of course 99% of it unfortunately for Leftists is The Leftist Agenda.

Don't tempt me: Jeremy Corbyn.

That is very disturbing, the British in chaos Traitor MPs attempting to prevent Brexit, May a very weak woman they could have a General Election and Jeremy Corbyn could win. WTF disaster.

 

[Shusha]

That's really what I want to talk about. I want to hear how Susha sees Messiah, what he believes about Messiah. I know what Christians think about Messiah. I also want to hear how Jews see prophecies. I don't want to challenge Judaism. If The Old Testament Saints and Prophets are in Heaven, (The New Testament Says This) then Jews are of God.

Curious how many people tend to leave out the H in sHusha. Also, I'm a "she".

I see your JC "messiah" as a truly awful misunderstanding / misinterpretation of Judaism. As a misinterpretation of Judaism it makes my skin crawl. As a free-standing, entirely separate religious faith, its not for me, but I do see the beautiful aspects of it and wish you joy in it.

I see our messiah as something largely not to be concerned about, since Judaism focuses on our own behaviour. I, personally, take it non-literally. Its the idea that some people serve a special Purpose with respect to G-d's Intent. (That isn't necessarily the normative Jewish view.)

 

[The Original Tree]

Nobody is changing their rituals, but their rituals should be SEPARATE and NO Christian who accepts Jesus Christ as The Messiah should NOT participate in them, they do NOT participate in ANY Christian ritual including the total rejection of ALL Christian Festivals and Holy Days. I add that I also totally REJECT any participation in any Islamic Festivals, so I am not about to participate in Judaisms Festivals am I?

As a majority of Jews are Athiest and Secular, as a Christian why am I expected to follow them and listen to them and agree with them when they represent EVERYTHING that as a Christian I am against and I feel that any Christian following these Athiest Secular Jews is a danger to that person's soul.

So you say that Christianity is a danger to the Jews and I say yes but the same the other way Athiest and Secular Jews are a danger to Christians, considering for one thing to agree with them in total we would have to agree with them, in the rejection of Jesus Christ as The Messiah, I do not want to condemn my soul to Hell, others make that decision for themselves and I pray for them to see The Light and I wish them luck.

Strangely, we are on the same side here, Lucy.

Although, I think you probably take it too far to say that non-Christians are a danger to Christians. If you are saved, surely having an honest, simple discussion with a Jew is not going to endanger your soul, now, is it? Surely your faith is stronger than that?

I think also we are on the same side.

Well I also think that Islam is a danger to Christians, so it's not just Judaism. No having a simple discussion with a Jew not going to endanger soul, but if they at some point DEMAND that we ALL have to AGREE with them on EVERYTHING that would be a problem, because that would then include we would have to agree with the rejection of Jesus Christ as The Messiah and if this Masiach appear in MY lifetime I will say GTFO when they announce to the planet that THIS is the messiah. I am willing to get beheaded during The End Times IF I am here when it all happens, the choice will be to reject Jesus Christ to follow The Anti-Christ who will have had MEGA PR and be treated like a rock star OR to NOT follow The Anti-Christ and be beheaded. So I will NEVER reject Jesus Christ and I intend if around to go down in a blaze of glory firing my Glock at the Luciferarians.

Lucy, with all due respect, Jews are not allowed to proselytise, and certainly do not challenge Christian faith in conversations. In fact, Jesus is never mentioned, unless undertaken as a scholarly undertaking.

That's really what I want to talk about. I want to hear how Susha sees Messiah, what he believes about Messiah.

I know what Christians think about Messiah. I also want to hear how Jews see prophecies. I don't want to challenge Judaism. If The Old Testament Saints and Prophets are in Heaven, (The New Testament Says This) then Jews are of God.

Like I said, and will say again, it is God's Word that does any kind of work, not me. I am just a vessel, and my job is to seek truth, and to speak truth.

I will tell you one thing, that I find interesting. The Bible, and many Jews may not agree with this, but The New Testament talks about The Vine and The Branches, one being Israel, and the other, The Church that gets grafted on to The Vine. The Vine eventually becomes one. So at some point we will unite together in our Love of God. We may show that love in different ways, but I believe God is ok with that, so long as those ways honor God.

The Bible also talks about Two Olive Trees That Stand Near God as a Witness to Him.
What other two Faiths do you know That Proclaim God and His Goodness than Israel & The Church.

I am just a man, and imperfect man. But there is no greater thing an man can possess than wisdom. Let us seek it, and in doing that, we achieve greater understanding of each other and of God.

I am behind in the thread, in one of your posts you mention the EMP thing - Electromagnetic Pulse and I want to give thoughts on this with the subject of Mystery, Babylon I will do this later. Now the kidlets demand more attention so I go.

AN EMP can also be generated by a Meteor or Comet exploding in The Air. The US is technology dependent and so are many Western Nations. Something like this would do a lot of damage.

 

[The Original Tree]

That's really what I want to talk about. I want to hear how Susha sees Messiah, what he believes about Messiah. I know what Christians think about Messiah. I also want to hear how Jews see prophecies. I don't want to challenge Judaism. If The Old Testament Saints and Prophets are in Heaven, (The New Testament Says This) then Jews are of God.

Curious how many people tend to leave out the H in sHusha. Also, I'm a "she".

I see your JC "messiah" as a truly awful misunderstanding / misinterpretation of Judaism. As a misinterpretation of Judaism it makes my skin crawl. As a free-standing, entirely separate religious faith, its not for me, but I do see the beautiful aspects of it and wish you joy in it.

I see our messiah as something largely not to be concerned about, since Judaism focuses on our own behaviour. I, personally, take it non-literally. Its the idea that some people serve a special Purpose with respect to G-d's Intent. (That isn't necessarily the normative Jewish view.)

I think it is a typing thing Shusha. I believe it is probably an easy typo to make to leave out the "h". Warning, I have a weakness for beautiful Jews. LOL

 

[mudwhistle]

The Jewish messiah (mashiach) will be a fully normal human being, not a god, demi-god, or other supernatural entity.

What do you think Jesus was?
His crucifixion proved that.
His resurrection proved he was the Christ.
He suffered for us in the worst possible way.
I'll never turn my back on him for that reason.

I agree with you on ALL points. They want us to agree that Jesus Christ was ZERO that he was nothing but a common criminal and a lunatic, they want us to REJECT Jesus Christ like they ALWAYS have rejected Jesus Christ, Islam and Judaism do NOT accept Jesus Christ as The Messiah, but Islam does accept that Jesus Christ was a Holy Man, a Prophet although a Minor Prophet in NO WAY as important on their scale to Mohammed, in Judaism they do NOT even consider Jesus Christ a Minor Prophet they consider him a PIECE of SHIT to be mocked, ridiculed and REJECTED as a common criminal and a lunatic. I maintain that their messiah the Masiach will be what our Bible calls The Man of Sin, The Anti-Christ and they want to get Christians to agree with them, we must NOT do this, we must NOT turn away from Jesus Christ Our Lord, The Messiah and our road to Salvation through Him, to follow them we must REJECT Jesus Christ and ACCEPT their Masiach as the messiah and to do that we condemn our souls to Eternal Hell, to be thrown into The Eternal Lake of Fire..

Amen......what you said.

 

[Shusha]

I am a Jew, and I believe the Messiah to be an earthly person. Maybe he is here already.

Or she!

 

[mudwhistle]

The Jewish messiah (mashiach) will be a fully normal human being, not a god, demi-god, or other supernatural entity.

What do you think Jesus was?
His crucifixion proved that.
His resurrection proved he was the Christ.
He suffered for us in the worst possible way.
I'll never turn my back on him for that reason.

I agree with you on ALL points. They want us to agree that Jesus Christ was ZERO that he was nothing but a common criminal and a lunatic, they want us to REJECT Jesus Christ like they ALWAYS have rejected Jesus Christ, Islam and Judaism do NOT accept Jesus Christ as The Messiah, but Islam does accept that Jesus Christ was a Holy Man, a Prophet although a Minor Prophet in NO WAY as important on their scale to Mohammed, in Judaism they do NOT even consider Jesus Christ a Minor Prophet they consider him a PIECE of SHIT to be mocked, ridiculed and REJECTED as a common criminal and a lunatic. I maintain that their messiah the Masiach will be what our Bible calls The Man of Sin, The Anti-Christ and they want to get Christians to agree with them, we must NOT do this, we must NOT turn away from Jesus Christ Our Lord, The Messiah and our road to Salvation through Him, to follow them we must REJECT Jesus Christ and ACCEPT their Masiach as the messiah and to do that we condemn our souls to Eternal Hell, to be thrown into The Eternal Lake of Fire..

To be fair, we don't reject JC, per se. We reject the concept you have built around the man.

You're confusing organized religion with the Gospel Of Christ.

 

[The Original Tree]

He could be.

The Christian view of Messiah is that He looks and is Completely Human.

But He is Also Completely God. The reason He appears like this "Immanuel" is because He has to take Adam's Place as The 2nd Adam to redeem The Children of Adam, (The Human Race)

Through Adam sin entered in to the World, and Through The 2nd Adam Sin will be Vanquished.

Nobody is changing their rituals, but their rituals should be SEPARATE and NO Christian who accepts Jesus Christ as The Messiah should NOT participate in them, they do NOT participate in ANY Christian ritual including the total rejection of ALL Christian Festivals and Holy Days. I add that I also totally REJECT any participation in any Islamic Festivals, so I am not about to participate in Judaisms Festivals am I?

As a majority of Jews are Athiest and Secular, as a Christian why am I expected to follow them and listen to them and agree with them when they represent EVERYTHING that as a Christian I am against and I feel that any Christian following these Athiest Secular Jews is a danger to that person's soul.

So you say that Christianity is a danger to the Jews and I say yes but the same the other way Athiest and Secular Jews are a danger to Christians, considering for one thing to agree with them in total we would have to agree with them, in the rejection of Jesus Christ as The Messiah, I do not want to condemn my soul to Hell, others make that decision for themselves and I pray for them to see The Light and I wish them luck.

Strangely, we are on the same side here, Lucy.

Although, I think you probably take it too far to say that non-Christians are a danger to Christians. If you are saved, surely having an honest, simple discussion with a Jew is not going to endanger your soul, now, is it? Surely your faith is stronger than that?

I think also we are on the same side.

Well I also think that Islam is a danger to Christians, so it's not just Judaism. No having a simple discussion with a Jew not going to endanger soul, but if they at some point DEMAND that we ALL have to AGREE with them on EVERYTHING that would be a problem, because that would then include we would have to agree with the rejection of Jesus Christ as The Messiah and if this Masiach appear in MY lifetime I will say GTFO when they announce to the planet that THIS is the messiah. I am willing to get beheaded during The End Times IF I am here when it all happens, the choice will be to reject Jesus Christ to follow The Anti-Christ who will have had MEGA PR and be treated like a rock star OR to NOT follow The Anti-Christ and be beheaded. So I will NEVER reject Jesus Christ and I intend if around to go down in a blaze of glory firing my Glock at the Luciferarians.

Lucy, with all due respect, Jews are not allowed to proselytise, and certainly do not challenge Christian faith in conversations. In fact, Jesus is never mentioned, unless undertaken as a scholarly undertaking.

That's really what I want to talk about. I want to hear how Susha see Messiah, what he believes about Messiah. I know what Christians think about Messiah. I also want to hear how Jews see prophecies. I don't want to challenge Judaism. Like I said, and will say again, it is God's Word that does any kind of work, not me. I am just a vessel, and my job is to seek truth, and to speak truth.

I am a Jew, and I believe the Messiah to be an earthly person. Maybe he is here already.

 

[Shusha]

So what is your thought on Jesus Christ? To you he was and is what? Just a man or not even a man he is a Supernatural Being in Mythology and never existed? Or if he existed he was a common criminal and a lunatic?

A Jewish man, an historical figure, who ran afoul of the Roman leaders of the day during an especially difficult time for the Jewish people. Not a criminal. Not a lunatic. Certainly not supernatural.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

I wanted to start this thread first, to Thank The Creator & The Jewish Nation for Being The Vessel Of God to bring us, The Word Of God.

I want to thank God for Messiah who is called The Word of God, and again Thank The Jewish Nation for being The Vessel through which Immanuel Messiah Bin Joseph came in to this world, to offer Himself up as The Lamb of God who takes away The Sins of The World.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss Messiah. The Prophecies regarding His 2nd Coming and The Scriptures. Discussion of The Man Of Sorrows, Messiah Bin Joseph who offered Himself as a once and forever sacrifice for Israel, for Gentiles and The Whole World.

I would like to discuss The Jewish and Gentile views of Messiah Bin Joseph, Messiah Bin David, The Building of The Third Temple, The Throne of David in Jerusalem, and the coming Kingdom of God. The Last 7 Years Of Prophecy as wrotten in The Book Of Daniel and all related End Time Prophecies.

You do not have to be a Christian
to participate. You do not have to be a Jew to participate. Just be curious and respectful of different views of Yahshua, and discuss and learn in Love with one another.

I will not offer an opening view, but ask you to
tell me what your views are. I ask so you may answer. And when you answer I will ask.

This is how discussions are born. Shall we begin?

Excellent if Indeependent post in this thread on these subjects, he is an Orthodox Jew and he Observes what the Orthodox Jews Observe.

 

[Shusha]

No having a simple discussion with a Jew not going to endanger soul, but if they at some point DEMAND that we ALL have to AGREE with them on EVERYTHING that would be a problem...

I have good news for you then! (Not Good News! But you already have that!)

No Jew would ever demand that of you. Ever. It would be a violation of our faith.

Okay good, also in no other thread have I been in with you and rylah I have not even noticed a post in Politics or Current Events etc but you are both interesting and it's good you are participating in this excellent discussion that Tree started.

I'm mostly on the Israel/Palestine board. I venture out of that cave only occasionally. This time with a point of mutual interest with The Original Tree.

 

[Shusha]

You're confusing organized religion with the Gospel Of Christ.

I don't think so. I am disagreeing with your theological concepts.

 

[mudwhistle]

You're confusing organized religion with the Gospel Of Christ.

I don't think so. I am disagreeing with your theological concepts.

You can disagree all you like.....this used to be a free country.
Islamic countries like Iran aren't, but I think this is still sortof free.

 

[Shusha]

You're confusing organized religion with the Gospel Of Christ.

I don't think so. I am disagreeing with your theological concepts.

You can disagree all you like.....this used to be a free country.
Islamic countries like Iran aren't, but I think this is still sortof free.

Oh sure. I'm not at all suggesting that you don't have a right to believ what you want to believe or practice your religion as you wish.

Just pointing out that I am not confusing organized religion with the gospel. Rather than say "I disagree" with, I should perhaps say, "I don't believe". As in I fundamentally don't believe in the foundational theological concepts which form the basis of the either the Christian religion OR the gospels which inform them.

 

[Mindful]

You're confusing organized religion with the Gospel Of Christ.

I don't think so. I am disagreeing with your theological concepts.

You can disagree all you like.....this used to be a free country.
Islamic countries like Iran aren't, but I think this is still sortof free.

It's very free. But the last couple of visits, I picked up some worrying signs.

 

[gtopa1]

I am a Christian and understand it. No true Christian wants anything to do with replacement. That is a doctrine of demons.

But We study The Feasts and honor and respect them.

What is Passover?

God’s mercy upon Israel for all those who would accept The Blood Of The Lamb upon their doorposts while they were captive in Egypt.

What is Egypt? The sinful world. A world without God which we have to endure and live in but are called to be separate from that world because it is not our homeland.

Belief in The Lamb of God who was slain for the sins of the world and Passover are not contradictions.

To believe in Christ is to allow The Blood Of The Lamb to be placed upon the doorposts of your heart.

Revelations 3:21

“Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.”

Passover.

I never understood replacement. ...


... That is a false doctrine. There are imposter Christian Religions who only have a facade of Christianity washed over something else. The only way to know what they are is to study scripture.

There is no reason also a Messianic Christian cannot keep The Feasts and Traditions of all that it is to be a Hebrew. Just because a Hebrew who practices Judaism comes to the realization or belief in Messiah does not mean he cannot go to Synagogue, celebrate Passover.

But, as you said, it is just a facade of Judaism washed over something else (Christian beliefs which are incompatible with Judaism). Why would one practice a ritual or celebrate a holiday which is at odds with one's own sacred belief system? Which is contradicted by one's own belief system? What would be the purpose in that? The only way I can possibly understand it working is if you CHANGE the meaning of the source ritual or holiday.

That's appropriation. That's replacement. That's creating a false doctrine within the sacred and holy ritual or celebration which one is attending. Why would you do that? And, importantly, why should the adherents to Judaism permit that in their holy spaces of time and place?

Atonement is very Jewish.

Of course it is. But Christians do not understand the idea of atonement the way Jews do, as evidenced by your next sentence:

The Atonement Of Jesus though was through a one time sacrifice. He could do this because He was a Lamb without Blemish, The Son of God.

I am Christian and from a religious and spiritual point of view I cannot accept Judaism in any form as they reject Jesus Christ as The Messiah, the majority of International Jewry are Athiest only a minority are religious Jews and they also reject Jesus Christ as The Messiah and as a Christian I cannot support any group who reject Jesus Christ as The Messiah and that include Islamics and it is confusing to me how ANY who accept Jesus Christ as The Messiah can support Judaism which is the polar opposite of Christianity. My thought is that this Jewish Messiah, Masiach will be The Anti-Christ, that Masiach is The Man of Sin and he will tell them to rebuild the Third Temple and he will enter it and commit The Abomination of Desolation and mainly Evangelicals because of their Judaism Fetish they will when told by Jews that Masiach IS the messiah the Evangelicals will think it is the Second Coming of Jesus Christ and they WILL take The Mark of The Beast. Our Bible tells us that only 144,000 Jews are to remain, they are called in our Bible The Remnant, they are the ones who will Repent and will in the end accept that Jesus Christ is The Messiah, all of the others will stay with The Anti-Christ and stay rejecting Jesus Christ and with The False Prophet and ALL who follow them they are thrown into The Eternal Lake of Fire.

The 144,000 are Christian Hebrews who go out and preach The Gospel on The Earth during The Great Tribulation. So, to say this is all there is of The Jews is incorrect.

The Temple in my opinion is not built for AntiChrist. He allows it. But in the middle of the 7 year treaty he takes over The Temple and demands to be worshiped. The Jews Refuse. He goes to war then with Israel and everyone on Earth who has not accepted his mark and has refused to worship him. if All The Jews, and All the Earth accepted The Mark of AntiChrist and Worshiped him, he would have no one to go to war with.

The Remnant are the 1/3rd of The Jews who flee in to The Wilderness "Sila" from AntiChrist where God protects them until Messiah Bin David's 2nd coming to defend Israel and Wars with The AntiChrist and his armies. 2/3rds of The Jews in Israel are Martyred for refusing to worship AntiChrist, and they call & pray upon Messiah to come Day and Night like they did during The Roman Occupation. These Martyrd Jews and Christians will be resurrected at the End of The Tribulation so long as they refuse to worship AntiChrist until the very end.

When Christ returns with The Old Testament Saints, and Old Testament Prophets, and The Raptured Church, it is THEN The Jews recognize Him as Messiah, and They Mourn as one who has lost their only son, because they understand that Messiah came first as Messiah Bin Joseph, The Man of Sorrows, The Lamb of God, when they look upon Him whom they pierced. They shall say to Him, "What are these wounds (holes) in Thy Hands?"

He shall say, "They were given Me in The House of my friends"

Zechariah 12:10

"And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

Zechariah 13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

When they finally recognize Messiah they will praise Him.

Isaiah 12:1-6

1 In that day you will say: “O LORD, I will praise You. Although You were angry with me, Your anger has turned away, and You have comforted me. 2 Surely God is my salvation; I will trust and not be afraid. For the LORD GOD is my strength and my song, and He also has become my salvation.” 3 With joy you will draw water from the springs of salvation, 4 and on that day you will say: “Give thanks to the LORD; proclaim His name! Make His works known among the peoples; declare that His name is exalted. 5 Sing to the LORD, for He has done glorious things. Let this be known in all the earth. 6 Cry out and sing, O citizen of Zion, for great among you is the Holy One of Israel.”

Messiah Bin Joseph, Messiah Bin David, The Lamb of God, The Redeemer, The Word of God, The Logos, The Alpha and Omega, The Prince of Peace, Messiah For All, The Lion of The Tribe of Judah, THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL, will sit upon The Throne of Adam, The Throne of David, and Rule in Peace from Jerusalem on that day!

Yup; sounds like that Jesus bloke to me; ain't he something??

Here's the one I like; "Messiah for ALL". Also no usery no cash!!

THOMAS AQUINAS,

Sounds a lot to me that usury can exact penalties but unless it is illgotten then it can't be taken.

Now if a group of Jews formed a guild that acted as a monopoly and committed usury to acquire wealth then basically they should have been left alone as was the case in Italy. But remember: usury must be PROVED; not simply charged because someone is wealthy, the penalty of which is the same as any mortal sin; burning in hell forever. And it seems that Jews in Italy were of a different ilk to those in Spain, where there were barriers planted in the way of Jews trying to make an honest living.

But if it be said that the princes of countries suffer loss from this, this loss should be imputed to them as coming from their own negligence; for it would be better if they compelled Jews to work for their own living, as they do in parts of Italy, than that, living without occupation they grow rich by usury, and thus their rulers be defrauded of revenue. In the same way, and through their own fault, princes are defrauded of their proper revenues if they permit their subjects to enrich themselves by theft and robbery alone; for they would be bound to restore [to the real owner] whatever they had exacted from them [the thieves].

So the message is clear; Jews are citizens and subject to the same Laws as other citizens for the most part. There is a lovely little comment on "dress".

Finally you ask whether it is good that Jews throughout your province are compelled to wear a sign distinguishing them from Christians. The reply to this is plain: that, according to a statute of the general Council, Jews of each sex in all Christian provinces, and all the time, should be distinguished from other people by some clothing. This is also mandated to them by their own law, namely that they make for themselves fringes on the four corners of their cloaks, through which they are distinguished from others.

In short; they can wear what they bloody well like consistent with their own Laws and customs.

Greg

 

[The Original Tree]

Right. A Hebrew Christian does not have to quit being Hebrew.

I am a Christian and understand it. No true Christian wants anything to do with replacement. That is a doctrine of demons.

But We study The Feasts and honor and respect them.

What is Passover?

God’s mercy upon Israel for all those who would accept The Blood Of The Lamb upon their doorposts while they were captive in Egypt.

What is Egypt? The sinful world. A world without God which we have to endure and live in but are called to be separate from that world because it is not our homeland.

Belief in The Lamb of God who was slain for the sins of the world and Passover are not contradictions.

To believe in Christ is to allow The Blood Of The Lamb to be placed upon the doorposts of your heart.

Revelations 3:21

“Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.”

Passover.

I never understood replacement. ...


... That is a false doctrine. There are imposter Christian Religions who only have a facade of Christianity washed over something else. The only way to know what they are is to study scripture.

There is no reason also a Messianic Christian cannot keep The Feasts and Traditions of all that it is to be a Hebrew. Just because a Hebrew who practices Judaism comes to the realization or belief in Messiah does not mean he cannot go to Synagogue, celebrate Passover.

But, as you said, it is just a facade of Judaism washed over something else (Christian beliefs which are incompatible with Judaism). Why would one practice a ritual or celebrate a holiday which is at odds with one's own sacred belief system? Which is contradicted by one's own belief system? What would be the purpose in that? The only way I can possibly understand it working is if you CHANGE the meaning of the source ritual or holiday.

That's appropriation. That's replacement. That's creating a false doctrine within the sacred and holy ritual or celebration which one is attending. Why would you do that? And, importantly, why should the adherents to Judaism permit that in their holy spaces of time and place?

Atonement is very Jewish.

Of course it is. But Christians do not understand the idea of atonement the way Jews do, as evidenced by your next sentence:

The Atonement Of Jesus though was through a one time sacrifice. He could do this because He was a Lamb without Blemish, The Son of God.

I am Christian and from a religious and spiritual point of view I cannot accept Judaism in any form as they reject Jesus Christ as The Messiah, the majority of International Jewry are Athiest only a minority are religious Jews and they also reject Jesus Christ as The Messiah and as a Christian I cannot support any group who reject Jesus Christ as The Messiah and that include Islamics and it is confusing to me how ANY who accept Jesus Christ as The Messiah can support Judaism which is the polar opposite of Christianity. My thought is that this Jewish Messiah, Masiach will be The Anti-Christ, that Masiach is The Man of Sin and he will tell them to rebuild the Third Temple and he will enter it and commit The Abomination of Desolation and mainly Evangelicals because of their Judaism Fetish they will when told by Jews that Masiach IS the messiah the Evangelicals will think it is the Second Coming of Jesus Christ and they WILL take The Mark of The Beast. Our Bible tells us that only 144,000 Jews are to remain, they are called in our Bible The Remnant, they are the ones who will Repent and will in the end accept that Jesus Christ is The Messiah, all of the others will stay with The Anti-Christ and stay rejecting Jesus Christ and with The False Prophet and ALL who follow them they are thrown into The Eternal Lake of Fire.

The 144,000 are Christian Hebrews who go out and preach The Gospel on The Earth during The Great Tribulation. So, to say this is all there is of The Jews is incorrect.

The Temple in my opinion is not built for AntiChrist. He allows it. But in the middle of the 7 year treaty he takes over The Temple and demands to be worshiped. The Jews Refuse. He goes to war then with Israel and everyone on Earth who has not accepted his mark and has refused to worship him. if All The Jews, and All the Earth accepted The Mark of AntiChrist and Worshiped him, he would have no one to go to war with.

The Remnant are the 1/3rd of The Jews who flee in to The Wilderness "Sila" from AntiChrist where God protects them until Messiah Bin David's 2nd coming to defend Israel and Wars with The AntiChrist and his armies. 2/3rds of The Jews in Israel are Martyred for refusing to worship AntiChrist, and they call & pray upon Messiah to come Day and Night like they did during The Roman Occupation. These Martyrd Jews and Christians will be resurrected at the End of The Tribulation so long as they refuse to worship AntiChrist until the very end.

When Christ returns with The Old Testament Saints, and Old Testament Prophets, and The Raptured Church, it is THEN The Jews recognize Him as Messiah, and They Mourn as one who has lost their only son, because they understand that Messiah came first as Messiah Bin Joseph, The Man of Sorrows, The Lamb of God, when they look upon Him whom they pierced. They shall say to Him, "What are these wounds (holes) in Thy Hands?"

He shall say, "They were given Me in The House of my friends"

Zechariah 12:10

"And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

Zechariah 13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

When they finally recognize Messiah they will praise Him.

Isaiah 12:1-6

1 In that day you will say: “O LORD, I will praise You. Although You were angry with me, Your anger has turned away, and You have comforted me. 2 Surely God is my salvation; I will trust and not be afraid. For the LORD GOD is my strength and my song, and He also has become my salvation.” 3 With joy you will draw water from the springs of salvation, 4 and on that day you will say: “Give thanks to the LORD; proclaim His name! Make His works known among the peoples; declare that His name is exalted. 5 Sing to the LORD, for He has done glorious things. Let this be known in all the earth. 6 Cry out and sing, O citizen of Zion, for great among you is the Holy One of Israel.”

Messiah Bin Joseph, Messiah Bin David, The Lamb of God, The Redeemer, The Word of God, The Logos, The Alpha and Omega, The Prince of Peace, Messiah For All, The Lion of The Tribe of Judah, THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL, will sit upon The Throne of Adam, The Throne of David, and Rule in Peace from Jerusalem on that day!

Yup; sounds like that Jesus bloke to me; ain't he something??

Here's the one I like; "Messiah for ALL". Also no usery no cash!!

THOMAS AQUINAS,

Sounds a lot to me that usury can exact penalties but unless it is illgotten then it can't be taken.

Now if a group of Jews formed a guild that acted as a monopoly and committed usury to acquire wealth then basically they should have been left alone as was the case in Italy. But remember: usury must be PROVED; not simply charged because someone is wealthy, the penalty of which is the same as any mortal sin; burning in hell forever. And it seems that Jews in Italy were of a different ilk to those in Spain, where there were barriers planted in the way of Jews trying to make an honest living.

But if it be said that the princes of countries suffer loss from this, this loss should be imputed to them as coming from their own negligence; for it would be better if they compelled Jews to work for their own living, as they do in parts of Italy, than that, living without occupation they grow rich by usury, and thus their rulers be defrauded of revenue. In the same way, and through their own fault, princes are defrauded of their proper revenues if they permit their subjects to enrich themselves by theft and robbery alone; for they would be bound to restore [to the real owner] whatever they had exacted from them [the thieves].

So the message is clear; Jews are citizens and subject to the same Laws as other citizens for the most part. There is a lovely little comment on "dress".

Finally you ask whether it is good that Jews throughout your province are compelled to wear a sign distinguishing them from Christians. The reply to this is plain: that, according to a statute of the general Council, Jews of each sex in all Christian provinces, and all the time, should be distinguished from other people by some clothing. This is also mandated to them by their own law, namely that they make for themselves fringes on the four corners of their cloaks, through which they are distinguished from others.

In short; they can wear what they bloody well like consistent with their own Laws and customs.

Greg

 

[Mindful]

Right. A Hebrew Christian does not have to quit being Hebrew.

I am a Christian and understand it. No true Christian wants anything to do with replacement. That is a doctrine of demons.

But We study The Feasts and honor and respect them.

What is Passover?

God’s mercy upon Israel for all those who would accept The Blood Of The Lamb upon their doorposts while they were captive in Egypt.

What is Egypt? The sinful world. A world without God which we have to endure and live in but are called to be separate from that world because it is not our homeland.

Belief in The Lamb of God who was slain for the sins of the world and Passover are not contradictions.

To believe in Christ is to allow The Blood Of The Lamb to be placed upon the doorposts of your heart.

Revelations 3:21

“Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.”

Passover.

But, as you said, it is just a facade of Judaism washed over something else (Christian beliefs which are incompatible with Judaism). Why would one practice a ritual or celebrate a holiday which is at odds with one's own sacred belief system? Which is contradicted by one's own belief system? What would be the purpose in that? The only way I can possibly understand it working is if you CHANGE the meaning of the source ritual or holiday.

That's appropriation. That's replacement. That's creating a false doctrine within the sacred and holy ritual or celebration which one is attending. Why would you do that? And, importantly, why should the adherents to Judaism permit that in their holy spaces of time and place?

Of course it is. But Christians do not understand the idea of atonement the way Jews do, as evidenced by your next sentence:

I am Christian and from a religious and spiritual point of view I cannot accept Judaism in any form as they reject Jesus Christ as The Messiah, the majority of International Jewry are Athiest only a minority are religious Jews and they also reject Jesus Christ as The Messiah and as a Christian I cannot support any group who reject Jesus Christ as The Messiah and that include Islamics and it is confusing to me how ANY who accept Jesus Christ as The Messiah can support Judaism which is the polar opposite of Christianity. My thought is that this Jewish Messiah, Masiach will be The Anti-Christ, that Masiach is The Man of Sin and he will tell them to rebuild the Third Temple and he will enter it and commit The Abomination of Desolation and mainly Evangelicals because of their Judaism Fetish they will when told by Jews that Masiach IS the messiah the Evangelicals will think it is the Second Coming of Jesus Christ and they WILL take The Mark of The Beast. Our Bible tells us that only 144,000 Jews are to remain, they are called in our Bible The Remnant, they are the ones who will Repent and will in the end accept that Jesus Christ is The Messiah, all of the others will stay with The Anti-Christ and stay rejecting Jesus Christ and with The False Prophet and ALL who follow them they are thrown into The Eternal Lake of Fire.

The 144,000 are Christian Hebrews who go out and preach The Gospel on The Earth during The Great Tribulation. So, to say this is all there is of The Jews is incorrect.

The Temple in my opinion is not built for AntiChrist. He allows it. But in the middle of the 7 year treaty he takes over The Temple and demands to be worshiped. The Jews Refuse. He goes to war then with Israel and everyone on Earth who has not accepted his mark and has refused to worship him. if All The Jews, and All the Earth accepted The Mark of AntiChrist and Worshiped him, he would have no one to go to war with.

The Remnant are the 1/3rd of The Jews who flee in to The Wilderness "Sila" from AntiChrist where God protects them until Messiah Bin David's 2nd coming to defend Israel and Wars with The AntiChrist and his armies. 2/3rds of The Jews in Israel are Martyred for refusing to worship AntiChrist, and they call & pray upon Messiah to come Day and Night like they did during The Roman Occupation. These Martyrd Jews and Christians will be resurrected at the End of The Tribulation so long as they refuse to worship AntiChrist until the very end.

When Christ returns with The Old Testament Saints, and Old Testament Prophets, and The Raptured Church, it is THEN The Jews recognize Him as Messiah, and They Mourn as one who has lost their only son, because they understand that Messiah came first as Messiah Bin Joseph, The Man of Sorrows, The Lamb of God, when they look upon Him whom they pierced. They shall say to Him, "What are these wounds (holes) in Thy Hands?"

He shall say, "They were given Me in The House of my friends"

Zechariah 12:10

"And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

Zechariah 13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

When they finally recognize Messiah they will praise Him.

Isaiah 12:1-6

1 In that day you will say: “O LORD, I will praise You. Although You were angry with me, Your anger has turned away, and You have comforted me. 2 Surely God is my salvation; I will trust and not be afraid. For the LORD GOD is my strength and my song, and He also has become my salvation.” 3 With joy you will draw water from the springs of salvation, 4 and on that day you will say: “Give thanks to the LORD; proclaim His name! Make His works known among the peoples; declare that His name is exalted. 5 Sing to the LORD, for He has done glorious things. Let this be known in all the earth. 6 Cry out and sing, O citizen of Zion, for great among you is the Holy One of Israel.”

Messiah Bin Joseph, Messiah Bin David, The Lamb of God, The Redeemer, The Word of God, The Logos, The Alpha and Omega, The Prince of Peace, Messiah For All, The Lion of The Tribe of Judah, THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL, will sit upon The Throne of Adam, The Throne of David, and Rule in Peace from Jerusalem on that day!

Yup; sounds like that Jesus bloke to me; ain't he something??

Here's the one I like; "Messiah for ALL". Also no usery no cash!!

THOMAS AQUINAS,

Sounds a lot to me that usury can exact penalties but unless it is illgotten then it can't be taken.

Now if a group of Jews formed a guild that acted as a monopoly and committed usury to acquire wealth then basically they should have been left alone as was the case in Italy. But remember: usury must be PROVED; not simply charged because someone is wealthy, the penalty of which is the same as any mortal sin; burning in hell forever. And it seems that Jews in Italy were of a different ilk to those in Spain, where there were barriers planted in the way of Jews trying to make an honest living.

But if it be said that the princes of countries suffer loss from this, this loss should be imputed to them as coming from their own negligence; for it would be better if they compelled Jews to work for their own living, as they do in parts of Italy, than that, living without occupation they grow rich by usury, and thus their rulers be defrauded of revenue. In the same way, and through their own fault, princes are defrauded of their proper revenues if they permit their subjects to enrich themselves by theft and robbery alone; for they would be bound to restore [to the real owner] whatever they had exacted from them [the thieves].

So the message is clear; Jews are citizens and subject to the same Laws as other citizens for the most part. There is a lovely little comment on "dress".

Finally you ask whether it is good that Jews throughout your province are compelled to wear a sign distinguishing them from Christians. The reply to this is plain: that, according to a statute of the general Council, Jews of each sex in all Christian provinces, and all the time, should be distinguished from other people by some clothing. This is also mandated to them by their own law, namely that they make for themselves fringes on the four corners of their cloaks, through which they are distinguished from others.

In short; they can wear what they bloody well like consistent with their own Laws and customs.

Greg

What are they?

Jews for Jesus?

 

[Shusha]

Right. A Hebrew Christian does not have to quit being Hebrew.

Well, we might be talking about two different things here. Certainly, an ethnic Jew doesn't stop being an ethnic Jew when they adopt Christianity. And certainly shouldn't be excluded from family events, holidays and celebrations.

What I am suggesting is that it is important not to put a Christian spin on Jewish sacred practice.