Merrick Garland Has No Legal Standing Against Trump

[mudwhistle]

I gave you specific pages so you don't have to read the entire thing. Page 7 states the DOJ subpoenaed documents with "classification markings" contrary to your claim that Trump didn't have any documents under subpoena. Attachment E is Trump's lawyer's response stating that Trump has delivered them all. I could have picked other briefs. All state the same background and none of that basic information is being contested.

So it's their word against his...and according to the constitution and settled law....they don't have a legal leg to stand on.........and the simple fact that I have pointed out repeatedly....that nothing he had could be classified once he left the White House with it. They're simply making a claim that is in direct opposition of precedence. If they want to take away presidential authority, they can submit an amendment to the constitution and vote on it....but they need a Super Majority.

The fact that he had them meant they were probably more secure than what they are now. There's so many commies in the FBI all of that stuff has probably been turned over to our enemies by now.

 

[wamose]

Garland said that he is ordering a special prosecutor to investigate Trump because of new circumstances, including that Trump has declared to run for the Presidency. In other words, he just proclaimed that his intentions are to influence our next Presidential election. They should appoint a special counsel to investigate DOJ influence on our election system.

 

[jc456]

Garland said that he is ordering a special prosecutor to investigate Trump because of new circumstances, including that Trump has declared to run for the Presidency. In other words, he just proclaimed that his intentions are to influence our next Presidential election. They should appoint a special counsel to investigate DOJ influence on our election system.

that's exactly what he's doing. just like the previous impeachment was the same thing.

 

[forkup]

So it's their word against his...and according to the constitution and settled law....they don't have a legal leg to stand on.........and the simple fact that I have pointed out at repeatedly....that nothing he had could be classified once he left the White House with it. They're simply making a claim that is in direct opposition of precedence. If they want to take away presidential authority, they can submit an amendment to the constitution and vote on it....but they need a Super Majority.

The fact that he had them meant they were probably more secure than what they are now. There's so many commies in the FBI all of that stuff has probably been turned over to our enemies by now.

No, it's their word against.... no one. Attachment E is Trump's custodian of records stating there are no documents with classification markings... the actual affidavit. You have one party and one party only stating facts in court. As for precedent.

Press Statements in Response to Media Queries About Presidential Records | National Archives

www.archives.gov

Reports that indicate or imply that those Presidential records were in the possession of the former Presidents or their representatives, after they left office, or that the records were housed in substandard conditions, are false and misleading.

There is no precedent. Just Trump doing things nobody else has done. But hey feel free to point to where in the constitution presidential records are handled.

 

[jc456]

No, it's their word against.... no one. Attachment E is Trump's custodian of records stating there are no documents with classification markings... the actual affidavit. You have one party and one party only stating facts in court. As for precedent.

Press Statements in Response to Media Queries About Presidential Records | National Archives

www.archives.gov

Reports that indicate or imply that those Presidential records were in the possession of the former Presidents or their representatives, after they left office, or that the records were housed in substandard conditions, are false and misleading.

There is no precedent. Just Trump doing things nobody else has done. But hey feel free to point to where in the constitution presidential records are handled.

there is no procedure or law.

p.s., can't violate that which does not exist.

Now post the law you are referring to.

 

[forkup]

there is no procedure or law.

The law

Presidential Records Act (PRA) of 1978 | National Archives

www.archives.gov

The procedure for handling classified information.

 

[jc456]

The law

Presidential Records Act (PRA) of 1978 | National Archives

www.archives.gov

The procedure for handling classified information.

that says trump did nothing wrong.

 

[jc456]

The law

Presidential Records Act (PRA) of 1978 | National Archives

www.archives.gov

The procedure for handling classified information.

and John Fitzpatrick said that on CBS Sunday Morning this past Sunday.

5:15 mark

 

[forkup]

that says trump did nothing wrong.

Lol. Sure sparky you are a speed reader of note and are so brilliant, you can come to a fundamentally different but right conclusion than nearly everyone reading complex legal language in a matter of minutes. Including 99 percent of lawyers

 

[jc456]

Lol. Sure sparky you are a speed reader of note and are so brilliant, you can come to a fundamentally different but right conclusion than nearly everyone reading complex legal language in a matter of minutes. Including 99 percent of lawyers

see post #68. you're welcome.

I bet you can't see straight you're so wrong.

 

[mudwhistle]

No, it's their word against.... no one. Attachment E is Trump's custodian of records stating there are no documents with classification markings... the actual affidavit. You have one party and one party only stating facts in court. As for precedent.

Press Statements in Response to Media Queries About Presidential Records | National Archives

www.archives.gov

Reports that indicate or imply that those Presidential records were in the possession of the former Presidents or their representatives, after they left office, or that the records were housed in substandard conditions, are false and misleading.

There is no precedent. Just Trump doing things nobody else has done. But hey feel free to point to where in the constitution presidential records are handled.

Well...apparently this is a frame-up because if that's what Trump's custodian said...that's on him.
If the FBI brought classification folders with them and put them in with the other files....they planted evidence.
If there were classification markings on the pages....that's not even an issue because as I pointed out before....whether the markings were there when they left the White House....they would probably still be there when they were inspected. The President Of The United States only has to authorize their removal and those marking become invalid. The DOJ is trying to bring an indictment purely for political purposes. This case will never see a courtroom because, and I repeat, THEY HAVE NO LEGAL STANDING.
If Hillary had classified documents she probably would have been found guilty in court if Jame Comey had referred the case to the DOJ....but he didn't....because the former Sec of State doesn't have the authority to declassify Secret or Top Secret documents the way a president does.

 

[mudwhistle]

Lol. Sure sparky you are a speed reader of note and are so brilliant, you can come to a fundamentally different but right conclusion than nearly everyone reading complex legal language in a matter of minutes. Including 99 percent of lawyers

The language in those docs aren't that difficult to read.
It's all pretty simple.
They may be stating what they think is factual....but it doesn't mean they have any legal standing.
This is just a case that is at the discretion of the prosecutor.
They chose to put their name and reputation on the line and attempt to prosecute a case they know doesn't hold water.
Next they'll go judge shopping and hope they can find a judge that will hear the case.....but I don't think it will even go that far.
They'll try to entrap people into lying to FBI agents and try to get them that way....and string out the investigation until the 2024 election.

 

[mudwhistle]

The law

Presidential Records Act (PRA) of 1978 | National Archives

www.archives.gov

The procedure for handling classified information.

EOs don't cancel out the constitution.
An Obama EO cannot cancel out the President's authority as spelled out in the constitution and reaffirmed by the Supreme Court.

 

[Winco]

I don't care if Bill Barr says that he has a case.......Merrick Garland has no legal standing to investigate Trump on any documents that were at Mara-lago....and he knows it.

I don't care what YOU say.

I don't care about classified or unclassified, FACT is trump stole documents.
He put them in his hands and he walked out with documents that were NOT his to take. Classified or De-Classified. Doesn't matter.

He fucking STOLE documents, then claimed that Obama and others did it to, which is a big fat LIE. Obama Didn't walk out of the WH with 30 Million Documents. And Obama didn't store documents at his personal residence.
NARA always had them and NARA still does.

Trump took them and marched them to his personal residence.
Fucking Thief. Lying Con Man.

Quit protecting him.

 

[Mac1958]

Yeah, I'll take the word of Merrick Garland, and his sterling professional reputation, over that of some obedient Trumpster.

If he thinks he has something, he'll indict. If he doesn't, he won't.

 

[forkup]

Well...apparently this is a frame-up because if that's what Trump's custodian said...that's on him.
If the FBI brought classification folders with them and put them in with the other files....they planted evidence.
If there were classification markings on the pages....that's not even an issue because as I pointed out before....whether the markings were there when they left the White House....they would probably still be there when they were inspected. The President Of The United States only has to authorize their removal and those marking become invalid. The DOJ is trying to bring an indictment purely for political purposes. This case will never see a courtroom because, and I repeat, THEY HAVE NO LEGAL STANDING.
If Hillary had classified documents she probably would have been found guilty in court if Jame Comey had referred the case to the DOJ....but he didn't....because the former Sec of State doesn't have the authority to declassify Secret or Top Secret documents the way a president does.

More novel legal theories? A client isn't responsible for his lawyer making statements on his behalf? Interesting. Is the client responsible for documents his lawyer said you didn't have located in your desk?

Also interesting is that you seem to maintain that if a document isn't classified it is no longer a government document but rather a personal possession. Hell since you don't seem to believe a classification marking is an indication of classification level I guess you can be forgiven.

I tell you what, join Trump's legal team. I'm sure you and your friends can convince a jury of all these new and exciting theories.

 

[mudwhistle]

More novel legal theories? A client isn't responsible for his lawyer making statements on his behalf? Interesting. Is the client responsible for documents his lawyer said you didn't have located in your desk?

Also interesting is that you seem to maintain that if a document isn't classified it is no longer a government document but rather a personal possession. Hell since you don't seem to believe a classification marking is an indication of classification level I guess you can be forgiven.

I tell you what, join Trump's legal team. I'm sure you and your friends can convince a jury of all these new and exciting theories.

I spent 35 years working in the federal government as either active-duty or as a civil service employee for the Dept of the Army. I've been thru all of the classes over and over and over.
I went through Comsec Custodian school at Flint Kaserne in the FRG....and I know about how to handle classified documents, as well as crypto keys, codes, and equipment, and knew my way around a SCIF.
I held a TS-SCI clearance and had the FBI background check that goes with it.

I know that once you put a classified marking on a document you can't erase it. Depending on the current regulations, you can either declassify it with a signature or stamp that has to be witnessed by a qualified authority.

The powers vested in the POTUS are over and above all of that.
Operation Crossfire Hurricane was a highly classified operation that Trump threatened to declassify and make public. It was the only protection the FBI had to protect themselves from public and legal scrutiny.
The second impeachment was a threat....and was conducted to prevent Trump from exposing the FBI and declassifying Crossfire Hurricane.

What Merrick Garland is trying to do is fuck with Trump over what his authority is.....and while he's doing that....he's going to be destroying evidence and hiding evidence from the House committees...claiming he can't comment because of the investigation he started as soon as Trump announced he was running for POTUS. He would have dropped the case if he hadn't declared.

Anything Trump's people took from the White House was, by the constitution, declassified.
The information may have been sensitive in nature...but it was declassified once it was removed.

 

[Care4all]

Again...you didn't read the OP or didn't understand it.

According to the Supreme Court....the POTUS has the final say on classified material.
When he leaves office everything he takes with him is declassified automatically once he sends it to his private residence. He doesn't even have to sign anything to make this happen....it's just what he says goes. This is an authority that has been in place for over 200 years. It's never been an issue with any president, up until now.

It doesn't matter if Biden steals these documents from his home in a raid and has them re-classified. They weren't classified when they were in the former president's possession. If anything....Merrick Garland can be prosecuted for abusing Trump's constitutional rights. Biden, of course, claimed not to know about it before it happened, which if he did, would make him libel as well.

So are you claiming the top secret classified, national security documents he took from the U.S. Government by the hundreds, were automatically declassified just by a worker, carrying them to his whitehouse home??

Why didn't Trump ever mention he declassified the government documents he lifted, in his NARA correspondence for the year after he left office?

Why did it take a year before he shoveled that excuse? Who did he tell while president that any document that leaves the president's oval office to his house, are automatically declassified, And open for any of our enemies to have, while he was president? and if this were the case, why did his chief of staffs not know this?

I'm sorry....

That's the biggest crock of nonsensical, traitorous, shit I've ever heard Trump try to spin.

 

[forkup]

I spent 35 years working in the federal government as either active-duty or as a civil service employee for the Dept of the Army. I've been thru all of the classes over and over and over.
I went through Comsec Custodian school at Flint Kaserne in the FRG....and I know about how to handle classified documents, as well as crypto keys, codes, and equipment, and knew my way around a SCIF.
I held a TS-SCI clearance and had the FBI background check that goes with it.

I know that once you put a classified marking on a document you can't erase it. Depending on the current regulations, you can either declassify it with a signature or stamp that has to be witnessed by a qualified authority.

The powers vested in the POTUS are over and above all of that.
Operation Crossfire Hurricane was a highly classified operation that Trump threatened to declassify and make public. It was the only protection the FBI had to protect themselves from public and legal scrutiny.
The second impeachment was a threat....and was conducted to prevent Trump from exposing the FBI and declassifying Crossfire Hurricane.

What Merrick Garland is trying to do is fuck with Trump over what his authority is.....and while he's doing that....he's going to be destroying evidence and hiding evidence from the House committees...claiming he can't comment because of the investigation he started as soon as Trump announced he was running for POTUS. He would have dropped the case if he hadn't declared.

Anything Trump's people took from the White House was, by the constitution, declassified.
The information may have been sensitive in nature...but it was declassified once it was removed.

It all comes down to a simple completely insane notion.

The notion that someone elected president isn't just above the law but that he keeps the perogatives of that office even after he leaves office. You go even further than that since according to your legal theory those perogatives exceed those of the CURRENT administration.

At absolutely no point do you adress the simple issue that according to the PRA those documents aren't Trump's to begin with and the statutes cited simply DO NOT MENTION classification. Simply " national security documents".

You do this classification dance and hope I don't notice that the issue isn't classified or declassified but rather government property and personal property and whether or not Trump held on to those documents when they are CLEARLY not personal.


As an aside. You held a TS-SCI clearance? Do you agree with holding documents holding documents with that level of clearance in a storeroom on a golf resort?

 

[SavannahMann]

I don't care if Bill Barr says that he has a case.......Merrick Garland has no legal standing to investigate Trump on any documents that were at Mara-lago....and he knows it. Here's why:

"When government drones “classify” documents, they do so only because their authority comes from the president. They can neither challenge nor exceed the president’s authority. Neither can Congress for that matter.​

​

This isn’t me saying that. This is the Supreme Court of the United States in an unchallenged decision that relies on a long-standing (as in, back to 1788) assignment of power to the executive. Presidents can voluntarily respect a national security law, but they do not have to abide by it.​

​

​

That’s because the president—and only the president—has plenary power when it comes to national security matters. Plenary power means “a power that has been granted to a body or person in absolute terms, with no review of or limitations upon the exercise of that power.”​

​

The leading case on this is Navy v. Egan, 484 U.S. 518 (1988), which considered whether a civil service board can review a “laborer’s” being denied national security clearance. In that context, the Supreme Court was clear about the president’s plenary power:​

​

Note that there are no procedural rules the president must follow to exercise his authority. Again, that’s because neither Congress nor the bureaucracy (which reports to the president) has the power to impose rules on him.​

​

Because Trump was still the President of the United States, at the very moment when he transferred those documents from the White House to his private residence, they were automatically and instantly declassified. After that, nothing in his possession was either “sensitive” or “classified,” and neither the current nor the past Attorney General can change that fact."​

​

Bill Barr’s latest anti-Trump diatribe explodes the myth that he’s a wise man

The Bible holds that “Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise…” (Proverbs 17:28.) In the modern era, with attribution to Mark Twain, Abraham Lincoln, or others, that’s been reworked as “Better to remain ...

www.americanthinker.com

Ok. Who can investigate Trump?