Men surrounded for exercising Second Amendment rights.

[Anathema]

Getting laws overturned IMO is a better solution. I don't support anyone taking the life of another outside of direct self defense

That’s fine but until the law IS overturned, it is the responsibility of a proper Citizen to follow the law, or accept the consequences of breaking it.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Nothing they did as far as we know was unconstitutional. Are you going to say "well it's the law:", when someone makes guns illegal?

Where do we find "unlawful possession of a firearm" in the COnstitution?

The Constitution is not a defense so far as I’m concerned. Until and unless they were willing to engage in armed Revolution, which they weren’t since the Trooper is alive and they’re in custody, the Constitution is a moot point. Has been since 1865.

without the Constitution cops or the government could enter your home regardless of how you said they could not, they could take away what you have they could live in your home, make you submit to a state religion, no right to a trial they could torture you
It's all about the Constitution.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

What law did they break?

Illegal possession of firearms, for starters.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

do you obey laws that are unconstitutional?

This makes no sense.

Laws that the courts determine to be un-Constitutional cannot be enforced.

 

[pknopp]

Getting laws overturned IMO is a better solution. I don't support anyone taking the life of another outside of direct self defense

That’s fine but until the law IS overturned, it is the responsibility of a proper Citizen to follow the law, or accept the consequences of breaking it.

I disagree. It's the proper role of a citizen to ignore unconstitutional laws.

 

[Dadoalex]

pknopp, EvilEyeFleegle has it correct and is asking a valid question.
Interstate 95 in Wakefield was shut down by a standoff between Massachusetts State Police and a group of heavily armed men Saturday morning. The men claim to be part of a group called “The Rise of The Moors – The Moorish American Arms.”
The group claims to be American nationals but not US citizens. They have a Moroccan flag.

"How do you claim to be an "American national" and not be a citizen?"

pknopp, In your mind do they have rights to enter into the country and use our constitution for their nefarious purposes?

There was ZERO reasons to question them to start with.

A group of men.
Armed to the teeth.
Gathered along the side of an interstate highway at 1:30AM

There's "reasonable cause" dripping from that cake.

As long as you aren't a 2nd Amendment supporter.

Got nothing to do with the 2nd.
The men were behaving suspiciously.
The men behaving suspiciously were armed.

When challenged the men ran.

If you can't see the reasonable suspicion there you're not qualified to participate in the conversation.

As I said, most who pretend to support the 2nd really don't and this shows that we really have no 2nd Amendment rights because those who claim to support them by and large refuse to stand up for them.

Filling your car up because you ran out of gas is not acting suspicious.

No, it's not.
11 heavily armed men
Filling up their car
on the side of the road
at 1:30 in the morning is suspicious.

Those 4 facts taken separately may not provoke suspicion.
"11 heavily armed men at a gun range"
"Filling up their car at a gas station"
...

But as a group? VERY suspicious.
Nothing to do with race.
Nothing to do with guns.
But the totality of the situation required explanation.

 

[Anathema]

I disagree. It's the proper role of a citizen to ignore unconstitutional laws

That’s fine. Just don’t expect me to cry when some cop puts a pair between your eyeballs for breaking the law.

 

[Sunni Man]

yes they lose their rights So they also lose their right to life when they leave prison don't you agree?

I partially agree with you. ...
If a person went to prison for a non violent offense like writing bad checks. I have no problem with them having all their rights restored after a few years.
But if they went to prison for things like rape, robbery, murder, etc.
Then no, they have forfeited their rights. Period.

 

[pknopp]

pknopp, EvilEyeFleegle has it correct and is asking a valid question.
Interstate 95 in Wakefield was shut down by a standoff between Massachusetts State Police and a group of heavily armed men Saturday morning. The men claim to be part of a group called “The Rise of The Moors – The Moorish American Arms.”
The group claims to be American nationals but not US citizens. They have a Moroccan flag.

"How do you claim to be an "American national" and not be a citizen?"

pknopp, In your mind do they have rights to enter into the country and use our constitution for their nefarious purposes?

There was ZERO reasons to question them to start with.

A group of men.
Armed to the teeth.
Gathered along the side of an interstate highway at 1:30AM

There's "reasonable cause" dripping from that cake.

As long as you aren't a 2nd Amendment supporter.

Got nothing to do with the 2nd.
The men were behaving suspiciously.
The men behaving suspiciously were armed.

When challenged the men ran.

If you can't see the reasonable suspicion there you're not qualified to participate in the conversation.

As I said, most who pretend to support the 2nd really don't and this shows that we really have no 2nd Amendment rights because those who claim to support them by and large refuse to stand up for them.

Filling your car up because you ran out of gas is not acting suspicious.

No, it's not.
11 heavily armed men
Filling up their car
on the side of the road
at 1:30 in the morning is suspicious.

Those 4 facts taken separately may not provoke suspicion.
"11 heavily armed men at a gun range"
"Filling up their car at a gas station"
...

But as a group? VERY suspicious.
Nothing to do with race.
Nothing to do with guns.
But the totality of the situation required explanation.

Suspicious to you. I can't help that you are paranoid.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

It looks like a black supremacy militia group was on their way for training. In Maine, that would be a Somali terrorist training camp. Likely around Lewiston.

Send them to Gitmo.

 

[pknopp]

I disagree. It's the proper role of a citizen to ignore unconstitutional laws

That’s fine. Just don’t expect me to cry when some cop puts a pair between your eyeballs for breaking the law.

And you pay millions to settle a lawsuit.

 

[Anathema]

It's all about the Constitution

The US Constitution died with the Lincoln Administration. It hasn’t actually been a meaningful document since at least 1865.

 

[Anathema]

And you pay millions to settle a lawsuit

Dead men file no lawsuits.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Which is fine. Offer them assistance and move on.

This makes no sense.

Why would law enforcement ignore individuals in violation of the State’s firearm laws.

Because they respect the Constitution?

To respect the Constitution is to know and respect its case law – the Constitution exists solely in the context of its case law.

And in this case law enforcement respected both Fourth Amendment case law and Second Amendment case law.

 

[pknopp]

And you pay millions to settle a lawsuit

Dead men file no lawsuits.

And yet George Floyd (and others) costs taxpayers millions every year. Doesn't this ever get old to you?

 

[pknopp]

Which is fine. Offer them assistance and move on.

This makes no sense.

Why would law enforcement ignore individuals in violation of the State’s firearm laws.

Because they respect the Constitution?

To respect the Constitution is to know and respect its case law – the Constitution exists solely in the context of its case law.

And in this case law enforcement respected both Fourth Amendment case law and Second Amendment case law.

There has been NO Supreme Court rulings that state a state can restrict your 2nd Amendment rights.

 

[Anathema]

And yet George Floyd (and others) costs taxpayers millions every year. Doesn't this ever get old to you?

Yes; which is why I support legislation removing the standing of anyone other than the individual who was assaulted/shot from filing suit against the assaulter.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Dadoalex
Give me some some links saying different.

 

[pknopp]

And yet George Floyd (and others) costs taxpayers millions every year. Doesn't this ever get old to you?

Yes; which is why I support legislation removing the standing of anyone other than the individual who was assaulted/shot from filing suit against the assaulter.

Support it. It's never going to happen.

 

[Anathema]

Support it. It's never going to happen

I do and it won’t. At least not until we restore a proper government, an Authoritarian one, to rule this nation. Then we’ll start charging criminals families for the bullets necessary to kill their relative.