Memo From Reality Based Community

[toomuchtime_]

dude, you're making republicans look like morally corrupt assholes.


If american soldiers or citizens were held by foreign powers and were water boarded, forced to wear women's underwear on their heads, and forced to crawl on the ground and bark like dogs, you wouldn't be outraged? What the fuck is wrong with you republicans?

In other words, you have no idea what aspect of water boarding makes you think of it as torture.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Your post is unresponsive and your conclusions are only speculations without any basis in fact or logic. People lie for all kinds of reasons and under all kinds of conditions and intelligence analysts understand that without confirmation, no piece of intel is to be trusted whether it is elicited by water boarding, physical torture or by treats.

Really? Ever paid attention to the prison system? Some warden a couple of years ago came up with an idea......he took the best behaved prisoners, and asked them if they'd like to participate in a program to train helper dogs.

Know what happened? The prison actually became pretty peaceful, as when the inmates were given trust (good stuff) instead of pain (bad stuff), they behaved in a surprising way......

They became model inmates and stayed that way. Why? They liked the position of trust that they were given, and did anything they could to keep it.

Like I said.....you've probably never been in a war zone, much less the military, because if you actually WERE......

You abandoned your military bearing douche.

Check the experiments by Pavlov and his dogs by the way.......

Try again idiot. Civility and politeness trumps torture most any day of the week.

 

[Missourian]

t

WEAK

The "at least 'we're not AS bad as al qaeda" is a phony and childish argument to make.

the most respected republicans with military experience - Powell, McCain, Hage - agree with me.

You know more about it than Colin Powell and John McCain? I think not.

What is weak is making the assertion that someone wear underwear on their heads is torture.

This is torture:

[youtube]J8e5WZrzZgA&NR=1[/youtube]

[youtube]zWnIRPl8xuw&feature=related[/youtube]

 

[Missourian]

Actually, beheading is the most humane and least painful way to execute someone. Now if they were instead stabbing them in the stomach and letting them die that way I would actually be a little more outraged. We kill those who break our laws, why would others not be allowed to?

Ask Eugene Armstrong about how "humane" it felt to be beheaded by terrorists.

[youtube]XFwxlt9D8N0[/youtube]​

 

[toomuchtime_]

Really? Ever paid attention to the prison system? Some warden a couple of years ago came up with an idea......he took the best behaved prisoners, and asked them if they'd like to participate in a program to train helper dogs.

Know what happened? The prison actually became pretty peaceful, as when the inmates were given trust (good stuff) instead of pain (bad stuff), they behaved in a surprising way......

They became model inmates and stayed that way. Why? They liked the position of trust that they were given, and did anything they could to keep it.

Like I said.....you've probably never been in a war zone, much less the military, because if you actually WERE......

You abandoned your military bearing douche.

Check the experiments by Pavlov and his dogs by the way.......

Try again idiot. Civility and politeness trumps torture most any day of the week.

Again, your post is unresponsive and irrelevant to the situation where interrogators need to get information from fanatical terrorists such as when we used water boarding on three al Qaeda captives after 9/11.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Again, your post is unresponsive and irrelevant to the situation where interrogators need to get information from fanatical terrorists such as when we used water boarding on three al Qaeda captives after 9/11.

Really?

Statements like that show you for the narrow minded ass that you truly are.

I bet you're a joy to be around at parties. Ya know.....treating people like shit, and not really caring, as long as your little slice of the pie is not interrupted.

You do realize, diplomacy works better than war, right?

Stay the course douchebag.......I hope your ship ends up on the bottom of the ocean, what with you being so "right".

You're even stupider than Bush Jr. because you didn't learn from his mistakes.

 

[KittenKoder]

Ask Eugene Armstrong about how "humane" it felt to be beheaded by terrorists.[/CENTER]

Meh ... one in 8 billion dies an easy death compared to all those I see suffer for years in hospitals and on the streets, I have no care about that one person at all, it's easy to die from a beheading and I would prefer it myself when I have to die. What about burn victims ... some psycho here recently started throwing gas on people on the streets and lighting them (targeting mostly the homeless) and got off with a slap on the hand. Those victims will suffer their ENTIRE lives from the pain, but instead you are worrying about one person dying very quick and almost painless.

 

[Missourian]

Meh ... one in 8 billion dies an easy death compared to all those I see suffer for years in hospitals and on the streets, I have no care about that one person at all, it's easy to die from a beheading and I would prefer it myself when I have to die. What about burn victims ... some psycho here recently started throwing gas on people on the streets and lighting them (targeting mostly the homeless) and got off with a slap on the hand. Those victims will suffer their ENTIRE lives from the pain, but instead you are worrying about one person dying very quick and almost painless.

How about Nick Berg

[youtube]_6pDtMeEF3A[/youtube]​

 

[michiganFats]

Thanks to Biker for posting the definition of torture. It's a little disturbing that the incoming AG would resort to something that in my opinion is ad hominem fallacy. The definition is what matters. Anything that is likely to break someones mind is not a good interrogation technique, torture or not. If we're at the point where we have to resort to this in order to gain information, I think that says a lot about the current capabilities of our intelligence organizations.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Matter of fact......there is one place where MENTAL ABUSE ONLY has a significant impact on someone's life for the rest of it......

Ever hear of mental abuse of children? Telling them day in and day out that they are worthless and cannot do anything?

Tell me that doesn't have a significant impact. Physical abuse is not the only kind there is.

 

[Anguille]

You do realize, diplomacy works better than war, right?

That needs to be repeated more often these days.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You're right Ang, but, unfortunately, it's gonna take a bit of time to calm the country down from the war rhetoric of the past admin.

Bush didn't understand diplomacy, and so consequently, neither does the country, because all we've heard is scare tactics from this admin.

 

[michiganFats]

Biker, unfortunately I don't think Bush is the only one who doesn't get diplomacy. Hillary's talk of "smart defense" doesn't bode well for us in my opinion.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Biker, unfortunately I don't think Bush is the only one who doesn't get diplomacy. Hillary's talk of "smart defense" doesn't bode well for us in my opinion.

Well, you're right. But the most important place to use diplomacy is from the Oval Office.

McStupid didn't really get diplomacy either.......remember "bomb Iran"?

Face it......most of the politicos in DC today don't really get what their job is either.

 

[driveby]

Actually, beheading is the most humane and least painful way to execute someone. Now if they were instead stabbing them in the stomach and letting them die that way I would actually be a little more outraged. We kill those who break our laws, why would others not be allowed to?

He compared beheading to waterboarding, reading comprehension owns you......

 

[ABikerSailor]

He compared beheading to waterboarding, reading comprehension owns you......

Hurt is still hurt, and dead is still dead........

Me? I wouldn't care how I was killed......I'd still be pissed about it.

 

[KittenKoder]

Matter of fact......there is one place where MENTAL ABUSE ONLY has a significant impact on someone's life for the rest of it......

Ever hear of mental abuse of children? Telling them day in and day out that they are worthless and cannot do anything?

Tell me that doesn't have a significant impact. Physical abuse is not the only kind there is.

I am living proof of that. Mental abuse I think is worse because of it. My mother kept saying I was going to hell because I was "not normal." Took me forever to finally get my life going.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I am living proof of that. Mental abuse I think is worse because of it. My mother kept saying I was going to hell because I was "not normal." Took me forever to finally get my life going.

I hear ya Kitten. Had some of the same stuff myself.

Ya know......doesn't anyone listen to Crosby Stills and Nash anymore?

Teach your children well.......not abuse them.

 

[mightypeon]

Well, depending on the situation, torture is quite easy to counter. Just Talk, Talk, Talk and dont get your mouth shut. Obviously, tell them some premade lies. Was their a neighbour you really wanted to get rid off?
If you are a "prisoner" who get waterboarded, it is likely in your interested to be a "very unreliable source".
Of course, frustrating the interrogators so much that they actually kill you would suck too.

 

[KittenKoder]

Well, depending on the situation, torture is quite easy to counter. Just Talk, Talk, Talk and dont get your mouth shut. Obviously, tell them some premade lies. Was their a neighbour you really wanted to get rid off?
If you are a "prisoner" who get waterboarded, it is likely in your interested to be a "very unreliable source".
Of course, frustrating the interrogators so much that they actually kill you would suck too.

Funny thing, how is it they are so sure that the person actually knows anything?