Polishprince
Diamond Member
- Jun 8, 2016
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Government authorities in America have proclaimed another law as well, the 1st Amendment guaranteeing the right to practice their faith.
Megachurch Pastor Calls On Christians To Defy COVID-19 Guidelines Even If It Means Death
- Thread starter TheProgressivePatriot
- Start date
Government authorities in America have proclaimed another law as well, the 1st Amendment guaranteeing the right to practice their faith.
Nonreligious Questions
Whether you’ve been turned off by religion in the past or have a question about one of the world’s religions, check out what Patheos has to offer.www.patheos.com
It is fitting to post this in "Religion and Ethics" with the emphasis on ethics. The pastor has a right to believe as he does, and perhaps even to sacrifice his life for those beliefs. However, he is a charismatic and persuasive person who has a lot of influence with his "flock" Like any group or demographic, you have people who are vulnerable and impressionable who will obey him.
In reading this, I could not help but to think of Jonestown:
I am hard pressed to see how Tony Spell is all that different than Jim Jones. Spell uses the power of the pulpit- as did jones- to manipulate and control his followers. Spell is probobly mentally ill, as was Jones and both have or had a need to be in control at all costs.
This is one of those non-denominational churches and I can guarantee you this loon is not ordained. So. When the really crazy Muslim sects led by the really crazy imams say their stuff, you're also all over them right?
I am really looking forward to the start of Ramadan on April 23rd
No, I do not support any religious death cult and I would and have spoken out against radical Muslims. But most Muslims are not radical, and most Christian are not either as I have readily acknowledged. So stop trying to bait me with your bullshit .
Okay so let's leave it at this: I don't think it's a good idea to go to church at this time depending especially on where you are. It's Good Friday. My church is having a virtual prayer meeting in an hour. But no church time meeting together.
However, Americans of faith have the RIGHT to meet together even if others think that's imprudent.
Do you also think that Americans have the right to run red lights and not use seat belts? It's not just about the health of people who are defying social distancing. It's about all of those who might get sick because of them, not to mention the emotional devastation of those close to them and the economic impact on the rest of us.
Are red lights and seat belts in the Constitution?
And you think you're savvy enough to handle fallacies correctly. SURE
Thank you for admitting that you think that you have the right to run red lights regardless of who else suffers from your actions. That's pretty fucked up.
Um....whoosh right over your head. DRIVING is not a Constitutional right. If you run red lights (seat belts is another story), you do not have the RIGHT to have a license. Again, it is not protected in the Constitution.
But guess what is?
FREEDOM OF RELIGION
Cut the ridiculous constitutional horseshit. I posed this as a moral and ethical question. Do you or do you not believe that this preacher should be enticing his followers to engage in activities that put them at risk of death? Do you or do you not believe the each of us has a responsibility to behave responsibly in a way that does not put themselves and others risk? Answer the fucking question!
As far as freedom of religion goes, all rights have limitations. There are religions that believe in human and animal sacrifices or the desecration of graves. Does freedom of religion extend to them as well.?
The answer is NO - they do not have the right to put people at serious risk of death by this virus. We (Jehovah's Witnesses) obey God as ruler rather than men (Acts 5:29) in cases where the government has a law which contradict God's law. For example, we do not go to war and many of us died because of that stand under Nazi rulership because we obey Jesus' direction to love our enemies (along with other reasos) - see Matthew 5:44.
However, we still meet together by computer download and/or telephone conference calls. We stopped our public meetings before the government required this of us simply because of love for neighbor and love for each other.
There is nothing against God's law to shelter in place or practice social distancing (c. 6 feet apart).
justinacolmena
Gold Member
- Banned
- #43
So why is that any worse, in this case, than obeying the COVID-19® guidelines?
They are aiming for a German Richtlinie with the idea of a "guideline" in English.
Wealthy, privileged, and employed ladies are all wearing fashionable gangster masks and pressing criminal social distancing charges against poorer or less privileged men.
The Germans (as well as the Japanese) themselves aren't falling for the lies they are imposing on us on in America, and also in Italy.
Germany has a low coronavirus mortality rate: Here's why
Germany seems to be taking the epidemic in its stride with a high number of cases but a low number of deaths, thanks to a number of factors.
Japan Makes Saving Face a Priority Over Saving Lives
As the number of coronavirus cases and COVID-19 deaths in Japan are on the rise, the government continues to make saving face a priority over saving lives.
www.thedailybeast.com
The Italian Doctor Flattening the Curve by Treating COVID-19 Patients in Their Homes
Luigi Cavanna's teams have visited more than 300 people with COVID-19 symptoms
The progressive patriot (user name) has noted that freedom of religion has limits. I am sure that those drafting the constitution did not have in mind the right to cause others to get sick or die. I am not sure about the legal issues - we only give allegiance to one government - the kingdom of God. Romans 13:1,2 is part of the laws of God's kingdom - to obey the superior authorities. I think the guilty religious groups claim to believe in the Bible, don't they?
This can be fought out in the courts later - right now, this week (and this month), it is urgent to follow the direction to shelter in place.
TheProgressivePatriot
Platinum Member
- Thread starter
- #46
A slight chance? Are you really out of your fucking mind!!??Nonreligious Questions
Whether you’ve been turned off by religion in the past or have a question about one of the world’s religions, check out what Patheos has to offer.
It is fitting to post this in "Religion and Ethics" with the emphasis on ethics. The pastor has a right to believe as he does, and perhaps even to sacrifice his life for those beliefs. However, he is a charismatic and persuasive person who has a lot of influence with his "flock" Like any group or demographic, you have people who are vulnerable and impressionable who will obey him.
In reading this, I could not help but to think of Jonestown:
I am hard pressed to see how Tony Spell is all that different than Jim Jones. Spell uses the power of the pulpit- as did jones- to manipulate and control his followers. Spell is probobly mentally ill, as was Jones and both have or had a need to be in control at all costs.
This is one of those non-denominational churches and I can guarantee you this loon is not ordained. So. When the really crazy Muslim sects led by the really crazy imams say their stuff, you're also all over them right?
I am really looking forward to the start of Ramadan on April 23rd
Tu Quoque Fallacy dismisses itself. Next in line please.
I am not saying you have NO RIGHT to argue the case. I'm saying your agenda is wholly exposed. Which is not Tu Quoque, you armchair philosopher
Apparently you do not understand a Quoque Fallacy
I know Internet Philosophers shout "FALLACY" as if anyone here is trying to construct philosophical arguments.
Apparently you have no idea as to how to construct any sort of argument .
I am telling you they give liberals a cheat sheet of "FALLACIES" and they think this make them sound smart so they crop dust all over internet forums
It's embarrassing. For you.
Give it a damned rest! State your argument in favor of the preacher's leading his flock to slaughter or shut the fuck up
You seem to be a little bit melodramatic here. "leading the flock to slaughter" is a wild overstatement.
There is a chance that some of the people might catch the bug, and a slight chance that someone could actually get sick and possibly die. Its a far way from leading people to certain death.
OldLady
Diamond Member
- Nov 16, 2015
- 69,568
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Jesus is up there shaking his head. He went around HEALING people, remember? He would not approve of people risking making themselves and others sick just to celebrate him in a large gathering.
I feel bad for believers; for deeply religious people, Easter is a much bigger deal than Christmas. The resurrection, the renewal, the forgiveness. There's the hot cross buns in the community room afterward, too, and the overpowering smell of 50 potted lilies on the steps of the altar, ladies in their new spring dresses and little girls in their new patent leather shoes. Kids all revved up on a belly full of Easter basket candy. Familiar hymns about hope. Easter is nice.
For some people, this is like taking Christmas away from someone who loves it.
TheProgressivePatriot
Platinum Member
- Thread starter
- #48
They didn't have the damned service yet, and the symptoms can take up to 14 days to develop. What the fuck is wrong with you?
One of the serious problems with the Corona/Covid-19 virus is that one can have no symptoms and still carry and spread this virus. Do you remember Typhoid Mary?
Further, some will have very mild symptoms and then after 10 days suddenly become mortally sick.
At this point, no one in the United States can say they do not have the virus now - unless they have been tested and found to be negative - of course, the tests are not 100% accurate, and also one can catch the virus while waiting for the test results.
In this pandemic it is important to listen to science.
Bottom line - shelter in place.
TheProgressivePatriot
Platinum Member
- Thread starter
- #50
So why is that any worse, in this case, than obeying the COVID-19® guidelines?
They are aiming for a German Richtlinie with the idea of a "guideline" in English.
Wealthy, privileged, and employed ladies are all wearing fashionable gangster masks and pressing criminal social distancing charges against poorer or less privileged men.
The Germans (as well as the Japanese) themselves aren't falling for the lies they are imposing on us on in America, and also in Italy.
Germany has a low coronavirus mortality rate: Here's why
Germany seems to be taking the epidemic in its stride with a high number of cases but a low number of deaths, thanks to a number of factors.www.cnbc.com
Japan Makes Saving Face a Priority Over Saving Lives
As the number of coronavirus cases and COVID-19 deaths in Japan are on the rise, the government continues to make saving face a priority over saving lives.www.thedailybeast.com
The Italian Doctor Flattening the Curve by Treating COVID-19 Patients in Their Homes
Luigi Cavanna's teams have visited more than 300 people with COVID-19 symptomstime.com
Well then go and attend his mega church. Smooze and breath deep. Let us know how you feel in 2 to 14 days
TheProgressivePatriot
Platinum Member
- Thread starter
- #51
Does that include human and animal sacrifice? Are the any limits to freedome of religion?
justinacolmena
Gold Member
- Banned
- #52
There are other points of contamination in the doctrines of those megachurches. That's a big building, with quite a ventilation system.
Some weed or marijuana is often smoked in a giant bong hidden in the ventilation system of a "megachurch" in order to enhance the "tabernacle" atmosphere for religious worship.
Other gases or vapes such as vitamin E acetate will be used to cause vaping illness or other respiratory distress to the congregation as a rebuke for their sinfulness.
Whatever people are smoking in those megachurches might well make them susceptible to some respiratory virus or other.
Sun Devil 92
Diamond Member
- Apr 2, 2015
- 32,078
- 11,107
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- Banned
- #53
While I think the lockdown is stupid and overblown....
There are precautions to be taken.
Unless he is putting a highvolume air mover on his building (and I don't know that you could put one large enough to pull that much air and still hear him......), this seems irresponsible.
Now, if he holds his meeting outdoors and everyone is 6 feet apart......and wearing masks....I am probably O.K. with it.
There are precautions to be taken.
Unless he is putting a highvolume air mover on his building (and I don't know that you could put one large enough to pull that much air and still hear him......), this seems irresponsible.
Now, if he holds his meeting outdoors and everyone is 6 feet apart......and wearing masks....I am probably O.K. with it.
Well, both Christmas and Easter are actually pagan holidays - but let those who are part of this world enjoy them - everyone has free will. Hot cross buns have their origin in ancient Babylon. Of course, hot buns are not the primary problem (but note Jeremiah 7:18), it is also the origin of the symbol of the cross.
See:'
What Is Easter All About? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.
wol.jw.org
Excerpt:
"It becomes apparent, then, that Easter is a pagan name and that the event is associated with a pagan goddess of spring. But let us now go back to the time when Easter got its official start. It was A.D. 325, long after Christ’s resurrection. By now apostasy had set in and there were many false Christians, Christians in name only. The pagan emperor Constantine was one of them. Constantine, who was still chief priest of the Roman pagan religion, assembled a large number of these apostate Christians together at the Council of Nicaea. What was this pagan priest’s motive?
He wanted harmony in religion for political reasons. And so, as the book A General History of Rome tells us, “he combined in his own mind the two hostile faiths rather than balanced them against another—a state of feeling rather than of opinion, which is more common, perhaps, than is generally supposed.” Constantine thus blended the two religions, the Roman pagan religion and apostate Christianity. One of the results was that Constantine decreed that “everywhere the Great Feast of Easter” was to be observed.
This appealed to the pagans, since they had long been used to worshiping a springtime goddess of fruitfulness. To the Greeks and Romans her name was Astarte. The Babylonians had worshiped her by the name Ishtar and the Phoenicians by the name Ashtoreth.
It was natural that the customs and rites pertaining to these springtime goddesses and their worship would surround Easter. Thus archaeologists have uncovered carvings of the fertility goddess Ishtar. They found her holding an egg in her hand and a rabbit at her feet. Thus the book Great Catholic Festivals comments on Easter: “The eating of eggs on this day is said to have come down from pagan usage of the egg as a symbol of fertility.” And The Catholic Encyclopedia says under “Easter”: “The rabbit is a pagan symbol and has always been an emblem of fertility.”
Worshipers of the springtime goddess Ashtoreth had a custom of eating cakes in her honor. They called the goddess “queen of heaven.” Of Ashtoreth and her worshipers the Bible says: “The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead the dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink-offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.” (Jer. 7:18, AS) Jehovah’s anger was kindled against his people whenever they adopted these pagan customs. But those who adopted the pagan Easter festival were not interested in following the Bible. They Christianized the pagan cakes, so they thought, by marking a cross on the top of them, thus the hot cross buns."
Of course, Easter is off topic but you brought it up and Easter Sunday is in 2 days.
justinacolmena
Gold Member
- Banned
- #55
Some European languages seem to have the same word for Easter and Passover, and the Eastern, Russian, or Greek Orthodox Church uses a different method for calculating the date of Easter from what Catholics and Lutherans are used to.
I am blissfully unaware of the precise details.
Outdoor gatherings are also advised against. Being 6 feet apart may not work if you are downwind of someone who is a carrier of this virus. Interesting you stated "overblown" (pun intended).
Btw - masks are not 100% efficient - this also depends on the type of mask. In my area it is very hard to find a good mask - though home-made ones can work fairly well.
Are you aware of the 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic that killed 20 million people on this planet - mostly in 4 months? Only the small island of St. Helena was spared. If we to not follow the scientific and governmental guidelines, 1.5% of humans on this planet could die. Thankfully most are sheltering in place and the death tall will be much less unless....
OldLady
Diamond Member
- Nov 16, 2015
- 69,568
- 19,614
- 2,220
I was being sympathetic; the topic is people still attending church on Easter. And I did comment on the topic first.Well, both Christmas and Easter are actually pagan holidays - but let those who are part of this world enjoy them - everyone has free will. Hot cross buns have their origin in ancient Babylon. Of course, hot buns are not the primary problem (but note Jeremiah 7:18), it is also the origin of the symbol of the cross.
See:'
What Is Easter All About? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Excerpt:
"It becomes apparent, then, that Easter is a pagan name and that the event is associated with a pagan goddess of spring. But let us now go back to the time when Easter got its official start. It was A.D. 325, long after Christ’s resurrection. By now apostasy had set in and there were many false Christians, Christians in name only. The pagan emperor Constantine was one of them. Constantine, who was still chief priest of the Roman pagan religion, assembled a large number of these apostate Christians together at the Council of Nicaea. What was this pagan priest’s motive?
He wanted harmony in religion for political reasons. And so, as the book A General History of Rome tells us, “he combined in his own mind the two hostile faiths rather than balanced them against another—a state of feeling rather than of opinion, which is more common, perhaps, than is generally supposed.” Constantine thus blended the two religions, the Roman pagan religion and apostate Christianity. One of the results was that Constantine decreed that “everywhere the Great Feast of Easter” was to be observed.
This appealed to the pagans, since they had long been used to worshiping a springtime goddess of fruitfulness. To the Greeks and Romans her name was Astarte. The Babylonians had worshiped her by the name Ishtar and the Phoenicians by the name Ashtoreth.
It was natural that the customs and rites pertaining to these springtime goddesses and their worship would surround Easter. Thus archaeologists have uncovered carvings of the fertility goddess Ishtar. They found her holding an egg in her hand and a rabbit at her feet. Thus the book Great Catholic Festivals comments on Easter: “The eating of eggs on this day is said to have come down from pagan usage of the egg as a symbol of fertility.” And The Catholic Encyclopedia says under “Easter”: “The rabbit is a pagan symbol and has always been an emblem of fertility.”
Worshipers of the springtime goddess Ashtoreth had a custom of eating cakes in her honor. They called the goddess “queen of heaven.” Of Ashtoreth and her worshipers the Bible says: “The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead the dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink-offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.” (Jer. 7:18, AS) Jehovah’s anger was kindled against his people whenever they adopted these pagan customs. But those who adopted the pagan Easter festival were not interested in following the Bible. They Christianized the pagan cakes, so they thought, by marking a cross on the top of them, thus the hot cross buns."
Of course, Easter is off topic but you brought it up and Easter Sunday is in 2 days.
But it's interesting about the hot cross buns. I thought a Belgian baker began it a bazillion years ago. That's what I get for watching the Food Channel.
justinacolmena
Gold Member
- Banned
- #59
Wake up, sheeple. I have been driving around major highways and almost passed out behind the wheel due to a strong oder of acetone drifting from nearby body shops. Traffic is light, guns are banned, and the cops, hospitals, and auto repair shops are getting desperate for business.
Vandalshandle
Gold Member
Parishioners don't want to miss Easter services. They are serving free Kool-Aid.
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