McDonalds cashier requirements

[Esmeralda]

How, exactly, are these universities financed?

They are funded by Finnish tax payers - which is why I don't say that they are entirely free for Finns, but really are for foreign students.

Frankly, I don't understand people who don't want to have an educated populace. Reality shows us that countries with a high number of educated people is a country with less crime, low population growth, better economy, better infrastructure, a better all around society. Look at the difference between first world countries, where literacy and education are high and third world countries where they are low. My impression of a certain type of American, with a certain view point, as evidenced by many posters here, is that if we enacted their vision of what they want for this country, we would end up with, essentially, a third world theocracy. Very disturbing.

 

[Saigon]

Esmeralda -

I agree entirely. I don't have children myself, but am more than happy to pay tax to cover our education system, which Newsweek recently ranked #1 in the world.

Being educated has a massive impact on society overall; I believe educated people making better choices both in life and at the ballot box, are less likely to become involved in crime or drugs, and can actually contribute to the world around them. It isn't a panacea, but it helps.

I do have to admit, though, that educating a largely homogenous poulation of five million is difficult to compare with the task facing US authorities. Education in the US needs to improve, but it's one hell of a challenge to educate everyone.

 

[Esmeralda]

Esmeralda -

I agree entirely. I don't have children myself, but am more than happy to pay tax to cover our education system, which Newsweek recently ranked #1 in the world.

Being educated has a massive impact on society overall; I believe educated people making better choices both in life and at the ballot box, are less likely to become involved in crime or drugs, and can actually contribute to the world around them. It isn't a panacea, but it helps.

I do have to admit, though, that educating a largely homogenous poulation of five million is difficult to compare with the task facing US authorities. Education in the US needs to improve, but it's one hell of a challenge to educate everyone.

I agree with you on every point.

I never had a problem paying taxes to support education. It is a much bigger challege providing a strong education system for a very large and diverse population. I have a strong belief that the lack of support in the US for teachers and education is one of the main things that is detrimental to education there. Neither teachers nor education are valued as they are in countries that have a better record of success in educating the populace.

 

[thereisnospoon]

QW, Spoon -

Try and understand this, because it is actually a little complex.

A student comes to Finland from Germany.

He pays no fees. His parents pay no fees. German tax payers pay no fees.

Hence, HIS education is free for him, his family and country.

Of course providing education involves some cost - but in this case no cost is directed to the student, his family or tax payers, which was my original point.

Attempting to worm your way out of this foolishness by changing the wording of your statement makes no difference.
Now, get this straight. Whether the student or his family pays or not isn't the issue.
The fact is SOMEONE, most likely the taxpayers of Finland are paying taxes to fund higher education.
So do not try to tell us it's "free"...There is no such thing.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Esmeralda -

I agree entirely. I don't have children myself, but am more than happy to pay tax to cover our education system, which Newsweek recently ranked #1 in the world.

Being educated has a massive impact on society overall; I believe educated people making better choices both in life and at the ballot box, are less likely to become involved in crime or drugs, and can actually contribute to the world around them. It isn't a panacea, but it helps.

I do have to admit, though, that educating a largely homogenous poulation of five million is difficult to compare with the task facing US authorities. Education in the US needs to improve, but it's one hell of a challenge to educate everyone.

Paying taxes is not the issue. It is the waste fraud and misuse of taxpayer resources that is the issue.
You live in Finland. You are unaware of the shit going on here.
Our public education system is the most expensive in the world. Per student expenses is twice that of the next nation. Yet, our public educators and liberal commentators insist we have short changed our kids. It's nonsense. There is no accountability. We have teacher's unions running roughshod over taxpayers and greasing the palms of union friendly politicians.
For every dollar in taxation for public schools, as much as 60% is spent on administration and non essentials.

 

[Esmeralda]

Esmeralda -

I agree entirely. I don't have children myself, but am more than happy to pay tax to cover our education system, which Newsweek recently ranked #1 in the world.

Being educated has a massive impact on society overall; I believe educated people making better choices both in life and at the ballot box, are less likely to become involved in crime or drugs, and can actually contribute to the world around them. It isn't a panacea, but it helps.

I do have to admit, though, that educating a largely homogenous poulation of five million is difficult to compare with the task facing US authorities. Education in the US needs to improve, but it's one hell of a challenge to educate everyone.

Paying taxes is not the issue. It is the waste fraud and misuse of taxpayer resources that is the issue.
You live in Finland. You are unaware of the shit going on here.
Our public education system is the most expensive in the world. Per student expenses is twice that of the next nation. Yet, our public educators and liberal commentators insist we have short changed our kids. It's nonsense. There is no accountability. We have teacher's unions running roughshod over taxpayers and greasing the palms of union friendly politicians.
For every dollar in taxation for public schools, as much as 60% is spent on administration and non essentials.

I don't live in Finland. I'm an American, and I know far more about education in America than the average American. You express a rant that indicates how little you know about or understand what the problems are.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Esmeralda -

I agree entirely. I don't have children myself, but am more than happy to pay tax to cover our education system, which Newsweek recently ranked #1 in the world.

Being educated has a massive impact on society overall; I believe educated people making better choices both in life and at the ballot box, are less likely to become involved in crime or drugs, and can actually contribute to the world around them. It isn't a panacea, but it helps.

I do have to admit, though, that educating a largely homogenous poulation of five million is difficult to compare with the task facing US authorities. Education in the US needs to improve, but it's one hell of a challenge to educate everyone.

Paying taxes is not the issue. It is the waste fraud and misuse of taxpayer resources that is the issue.
You live in Finland. You are unaware of the shit going on here.
Our public education system is the most expensive in the world. Per student expenses is twice that of the next nation. Yet, our public educators and liberal commentators insist we have short changed our kids. It's nonsense. There is no accountability. We have teacher's unions running roughshod over taxpayers and greasing the palms of union friendly politicians.
For every dollar in taxation for public schools, as much as 60% is spent on administration and non essentials.

I don't live in Finland. I'm an American, and I know far more about education in America than the average American. You express a rant that indicates how little you know about or understand what the problems are.

OOPS...That post was intended for Saigon. Sorry.
And just to reiterate, we do indeed spend far more than any other nation on public education.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

How, exactly, are these universities financed?

They are funded by Finnish tax payers - which is why I don't say that they are entirely free for Finns, but really are for foreign students.

Frankly, I don't understand people who don't want to have an educated populace. Reality shows us that countries with a high number of educated people is a country with less crime, low population growth, better economy, better infrastructure, a better all around society. Look at the difference between first world countries, where literacy and education are high and third world countries where they are low. My impression of a certain type of American, with a certain view point, as evidenced by many posters here, is that if we enacted their vision of what they want for this country, we would end up with, essentially, a third world theocracy. Very disturbing.

Frankly, I don't understand why people who want an educated populace think that taxpayer funding is the way to accomplish it. When the government steps in the incentive to offer a quality education for the money disappears.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Esmeralda -

I agree entirely. I don't have children myself, but am more than happy to pay tax to cover our education system, which Newsweek recently ranked #1 in the world.

Being educated has a massive impact on society overall; I believe educated people making better choices both in life and at the ballot box, are less likely to become involved in crime or drugs, and can actually contribute to the world around them. It isn't a panacea, but it helps.

I do have to admit, though, that educating a largely homogenous poulation of five million is difficult to compare with the task facing US authorities. Education in the US needs to improve, but it's one hell of a challenge to educate everyone.

Paying taxes is not the issue. It is the waste fraud and misuse of taxpayer resources that is the issue.
You live in Finland. You are unaware of the shit going on here.
Our public education system is the most expensive in the world. Per student expenses is twice that of the next nation. Yet, our public educators and liberal commentators insist we have short changed our kids. It's nonsense. There is no accountability. We have teacher's unions running roughshod over taxpayers and greasing the palms of union friendly politicians.
For every dollar in taxation for public schools, as much as 60% is spent on administration and non essentials.

I don't live in Finland. I'm an American, and I know far more about education in America than the average American. You express a rant that indicates how little you know about or understand what the problems are.

Feel free to outline what you think the problems are, I will be happy to let everyone who reads the conversation how unwilling you are to admit that you really don't get it.

 

[Saigon]

I don't understand why people who want an educated populace think that taxpayer funding is the way to accomplish it

1. It has a proven history of delivering better education outcomes.

2. It is cheaper per student.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I don't understand why people who want an educated populace think that taxpayer funding is the way to accomplish it

1. It has a proven history of delivering better education outcomes.

2. It is cheaper per student.

That is a load of crap. Here in the US, the federal government subsidizes higher education.
Therefore these institutions raise their tuition to levels unaffordable to the middle class. This leaves students with loan debt after they receive their degree.
As for your first point...Private universities that accept no federal or state dollars are the elite institutions in the US.
Typical. It's all about government with you, isn't it.

 

[Esmeralda]

I don't understand why people who want an educated populace think that taxpayer funding is the way to accomplish it

1. It has a proven history of delivering better education outcomes.

2. It is cheaper per student.

It is very obvious why the government should be funding education. In countries where families have to personally, individually pay for their children to go to school, those from wealthy, upper class, and comfortably middle class familes get a decent education. Kids from working class and poor familes don't, if they get any edcuation at all. As I said before, there are Americans here, and others throughout the country, whose vision of what America should be like would guarantee that our country becomes a third world theocracy. The irony is that I'll bet most of the people on here are not that well off, and if they had to pay out of their own pockets for their kids to go to school, it would be a huge burden. They want something that would be very difficult for them to deal with, and their kids would still not get as good an edcuation as kids from better off families. The schools their kids would go to would not have the facilities or the quality teachers that schools kids from better off families would go to. When we have a state system of education, far more equality in education occurs, no matter what your economic background. If we are talking about higher education, for me, it wasn't easy, but it wasn't impossible. I worked throughout school and took out some loans. I went to a state college and university. As a graduate student, I taught lower division classes and earned my tuition that way. If you want it bad enough, you do what you need to do. If you want a good education, you put into it what you want out of it.

If we had the kind of system Finland has for higher education, taxes would be higher, but everyone would be able to graduate university if they want it, if they want to do the work. As far as that education being adequate or better: you get out of it what you put into it~bottom line.

 

[Saigon]

Spoon -

For me it is all about outcomes and value for money. I have 0 interest in the politics of the issue - I just want to see the best education delivered for the best price.

Newsweek ranks Finland #1 in the world in education, so I would say our model might be worth looking at with an open mind.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I don't understand why people who want an educated populace think that taxpayer funding is the way to accomplish it

1. It has a proven history of delivering better education outcomes.

2. It is cheaper per student.

1. Provide examples.
2. Provide examples.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I don't understand why people who want an educated populace think that taxpayer funding is the way to accomplish it

1. It has a proven history of delivering better education outcomes.

2. It is cheaper per student.

It is very obvious why the government should be funding education. In countries where families have to personally, individually pay for their children to go to school, those from wealthy, upper class, and comfortably middle class familes get a decent education. Kids from poor familes don't, if they get any edcuation at all. As I said before, there are Americans here, and others throughout the country, whose vision of what America should be like would guarantee that our country becomes a third world theocracy. The irony is that I'll bet most of the people on here are not that well off, and if they had to pay out of their own pockets for their kids to go to school, it would be a huge burden. They want something that would be very difficult for them to deal with, and their kids would still not get as good an edcuation as kids from better off families. The schools their kids would go to would not have the facilities or the quality teachers that kids from better off families would go to. When we have a state system of education, far more equality in education occurs, no matter what your economic background.

The concept of public education is a good one. Except now we have educrats who's job it is to justify keeping their jobs. We have in many high tax states, teacher's unions who's job it is to protect teacher's jobs. We have a mentality among unionized teacher's that when the cameras are rolling it's about the kids and how much they don;t care about the money. But when the taxpayers speak out and the nice little cocoon the unions have built is threatened, suddenly it's no longer about the kids.
Taxpayers are finally figuring out that throwing money at a problem will not make it go away.
Spend money on schools? Yes! But only with the strongest accountability.
BTW..Before you go off and claim public schools are "free", remember how they are funded. We are all in one way or another paying out of our pockets for public education. There is no such thing as "free"...Never has. Never will be.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I don't understand why people who want an educated populace think that taxpayer funding is the way to accomplish it

1. It has a proven history of delivering better education outcomes.

2. It is cheaper per student.

It is very obvious why the government should be funding education. In countries where families have to personally, individually pay for their children to go to school, those from wealthy, upper class, and comfortably middle class familes get a decent education. Kids from poor familes don't, if they get any edcuation at all. As I said before, there are Americans here, and others throughout the country, whose vision of what America should be like would guarantee that our country becomes a third world theocracy. The irony is that I'll bet most of the people on here are not that well off, and if they had to pay out of their own pockets for their kids to go to school, it would be a huge burden. They want something that would be very difficult for them to deal with, and their kids would still not get as good an edcuation as kids from better off families. The schools their kids would go to would not have the facilities or the quality teachers that kids from better off families would go to. When we have a state system of education, far more equality in education occurs, no matter what your economic background. If we are talking about higher education, for me, it wasn't easy, but it wasn't impossible. I worked throughout school and took out some loans. I went to a state college and university. As a graduate student, I taught lower division classes and earned my tuition that way. If you want it bad enough, you do what you need to do. If you want a good education, you put into it what you want out of it.

If we had the kind of system Finland has for higher education, taxes would be higher, but everyone would be able to graduate university if they want it, if they want to do the work. As far as that education being adequate or better: you get out of it what you put into it~bottom line.

Yes, it is obvious, if you ignore empirical evidence. Crying about fairness only matters if you think the world is supposed to be fair, it isn't. You should look up the term autodidact sometime, you might learn something.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Spoon -

For me it is all about outcomes and value for money. I have 0 interest in the politics of the issue - I just want to see the best education delivered for the best price.

Newsweek ranks Finland #1 in the world in education, so I would say our model might be worth looking at with an open mind.

Newsweek? Didn't The Daily Beast buy that rag?

 

[Saigon]

The concept of public education is a good one. Except now we have educrats who's job it is to justify keeping their jobs. We have in many high tax states, teacher's unions who's job it is to protect teacher's jobs. We have a mentality among unionized teacher's that when the cameras are rolling it's about the kids and how much they don;t care about the money. But when the taxpayers speak out and the nice little cocoon the unions have built is threatened, suddenly it's no longer about the kids.
Taxpayers are finally figuring out that throwing money at a problem will not make it go away.
Spend money on schools? Yes! But only with the strongest accountability.
BTW..Before you go off and claim public schools are "free", remember how they are funded. We are all in one way or another paying out of our pockets for public education. There is no such thing as "free"...Never has. Never will be.

You make some good points there, Spoon.

Public education is a good concept, but it has to be well managed and funded carefully to minimise waste.

Teachers need to work hard and be accountable for their success and failure - they should also be rewarded when they are successful.

I totally agree that more money is not always the answer.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Spoon -

For me it is all about outcomes and value for money. I have 0 interest in the politics of the issue - I just want to see the best education delivered for the best price.

Newsweek ranks Finland #1 in the world in education, so I would say our model might be worth looking at with an open mind.

Got a link to that article. I'd like to read it.
Next, if Finland's higher learning is numero uno, then why are foreign students flocking to HERE in droves to get a degree?...I guess it's not so bad here.
Oh, it should NEVER be about outcome. All students are different. They should succeed or fail based on their own abilities or shortcomings. Guaranteed equality of outcome is incompatible with freedom and liberty.
I see the term "outcome" and the hair on the back of my neck stands up.

 

[Esmeralda]

Spoon -

For me it is all about outcomes and value for money. I have 0 interest in the politics of the issue - I just want to see the best education delivered for the best price.

Newsweek ranks Finland #1 in the world in education, so I would say our model might be worth looking at with an open mind.

As far as I am aware, the schools throughout the world which are rated best: they are given this rating based on standarized tests. I do not believe that standardized testing in a true indication of the quality of education students have recieved. Results, imo, are what students are able to do with their education, in the long run. Something which is far more difficult to assess. General knowledge a good thing indeed, but a well developed mind, a creative and critical thinker, a person who remains a life long learner, etc., those things are far more important than the results of a standardized test. The life accomplishments, the span and quality of a person's intellectual development, those are the things that indicate how well educated a person is.