Matthew 12:40

[The Irish Ram]

lol. Friday daytime comes before Friday nighttime. Friday night is the second part of Friday and the first part of the Jewish sabbath. . If you believe Christ died on Friday, and he was gone by Sunday, how many days and nights was Christ in the heart of the earth again?
And what do you do with John's special sabbath? He said the day AFTER Christ died was a special sabbath. If Jesus died on Fri. then the next day would merely be the weekly sabbath, not a special one. Do you just ignore John telling us about the annual sabbath?

Let's use your math and see if it matches scripture:
According to you, Christ dies on Friday 3 hours before the beginning of the weekly sabbath, and is removed from the cross before the weekly sabbath begins at 6pm. ( He was not in the heart of the earth on Fri-day. He was hanging on a cross in Israel on Fri. His body was still with them and was laid in the tomb right before Fri @ 6pm. So, Friday night to Saturday would be 1 night. So, Christ, on Saturday, was in the heart of the earth, It was His day 1. Saturday night to Sunday would be night #2.
Before the sun even came up Sunday morning, Mary went to the tomb and Christ was already gone. By your calculations how long was Christ in the heart of the earth? 2 nights and 1 day. John gave you the answer to the controversy, and you simply choose to ignore it.

Explain what John was referring to and see then if that gives you the 3 days and 3 nights, because your calculations do not. John gave you the correct timeframe, and you simply choose to leave it out of your calculations, which is why you come up short.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Jewish people would never ask that.

And the Sabbath rarely starts at 6pm.

If they asked the Romans to kill Jesus, they wouldn't mind a few broken legs before the High Day Sabbath. Let's continue with scripture and Jewish John:

John 19:31-33 Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down. The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other.

 

[rosends]

If they asked the Romans to kill Jesus, they wouldn't mind a few broken legs before the High Day Sabbath.

if the text makes one historically erroneous claim, why not keep making them. I see.

Let's continue with scripture and Jewish John:

John 19:31-33 Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down. The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other.

Next, I get to quote Harry Potter. Fiction is fiction.

 

[The Irish Ram]

if the text makes one historically erroneous claim, why not keep making them. I see.

Next, I get to quote Harry Potter. Fiction is fiction.

You had better hope you are wrong because Israel is about to become ground zero. 1/3 of the Jews are going to be killed and 1/3 of what is left of them are also going to be killed. You will be a remnant by the time Christ comes back to stop it.

 

[ding]

According to you, Jesus spent the day Friday nailed to a cross. He died right before sundown. So, from Friday night to Saturday morning would be the 1st night. Saturday would be the first day. From Saturday night to Sunday morning would be the 2nd night. He was gone from the tomb on Sunday. And since we know that Jesus does not lie, then there needs to be a different calculation.
We know from John that there was a sabbath on the day after Christ died. Not the regular weekly Friday sabbath, but a special one. If the regular sabbath starts on Friday night, and that is when Christ died, then John was wrong about a special sabbath. I was just the weekly one. And yet, John made the distinction, and it fits exactly the 3 days and nights Jesus said he would be spending. The fact that John was the one who told us about the double sabbath, it is worth taking note. Which sabbath would correlate with Jesus' statement, the weekly one or the special one?

• Mark & Luke: These gospels typically record Jesus saying he will be killed and rise "after three days" (Mark 8:31, 9:31) or "the third day" (Luke 9:22, 13:32, 24:7, 24:46). Luke 24:21 also records disciples mentioning it is "the third day" since the crucifixion.
• John: Refers to the destruction and rebuilding of the temple in "three days" (John 2:19-21), interpreted post-resurrection as referring to his body.

 

[The Irish Ram]

But Jesus made a point about how long He would be in the heart of the earth, in days and nights. He even used Jonah as an example, which was also 3 days and 3 nights. That works literally if you use what John said. There were 2 sabbaths. One fits the timeframe and one doesn't. Why won't you consider what John said?

 

[rstrats]

Friday daytime comes before Friday nighttime.

That is incorrect. Thursday calendar day and Thursday daytime ended at sundown at the end of Thursday. At that moment, Friday calendar day and Friday night time began and lasted some 12 hours - more or less, depending on the season - until sunrise when the daytime began.

If you believe Christ died on Friday...

I don't. But this topic is directed to those who do believe that He died on that day.

...and he was gone by Sunday, how many days and nights was Christ in the heart of the earth again?
And what do you do with John's special sabbath? He said the day AFTER Christ died was a special sabbath. If Jesus died on Fri. then the next day would merely be the weekly sabbath, not a special one. Do you just ignore John telling us about the annual sabbath?

For the purpose of this topic, yes. That is an issue for a different topic. You can start a new one if you wish to discuss it.

 

[The Irish Ram]

No matter how you slice the pie, If Jesus was laid to rest Friday evening and gone before dawn on Sunday, 3 days and 3 nights just doesn't fit into that time frame:

Jewish days

• 1st day – sunset Saturday to sunset Sunday
• 2nd day – sunset Sunday to sunset Monday
• 3rd day – sunset Monday to sunset Tuesday
• 4th day – sunset Tuesday to sunset Wednesday
• 5th day – sunset Wednesday to sunset Thursday
• 6th day – sunset Thursday to sunset Friday
• 7th day – Sabbath; sunset Friday to sunset Saturday

I don't mean to be contrary, but I just can't pretend John didn't say what he said. What followed the day after Jesus was an annual Sabbath, often called a High Sabbath or a Special Sabbath.
The sabbath that John told us about that followed Christs death was a special sabbath, not the weekly Friday at sundown sabbath.
Where do you fit the sabbath that John described to us into the Friday, gone before Sunday scenario?

 

[rstrats]

No matter how you slice the pie,

There is only way to slice the pie with a sunset to sunset calendar day. You said that daytime comes before night time. Please explain how you arrive at that.

If Jesus was laid to rest Friday evening and gone before dawn on Sunday, 3 days and 3 nights just doesn't fit into that time frame:

Of course not, but again that's an issue for a different topic

I don't mean to be contrary...

Not contrary, just not understanding. Once again, all your comments deal with issues for a different topic. You need to start a new one to discuss them.

 

[The Irish Ram]

rosends,

re: "the idea in Judaism is called 'miktzat hayom kekulo' part of a day is [as] the entire.

As regards the Jewish practice of counting any part of a day as a whole day I would agree, but when “nights” is added to “days” to yield the phrase “x" days AND "x" nights it normally refers to a measurement of a consecutive time period where “day” refers to the light portion of a 24 hour period and “night” refers to the dark portion of a 24 hour period. No one In the history of apologetics as far as I know has ever presented any historical documentation that the phrase “ x" days AND "x" nights” was a unique first century idiom of Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek which could mean something different than what the phrase means in English. Again, if you have such documentation, I would very much like to see it.

You want someone to come up with an idiom that proves x days and x nights may mean something different from what it states. rosends gave a name for what you are looking for, and John gave you the 1st. Century example.
Using the Jewish days and night, many a Jew probably said, "I'll be home in 3 days, or, I'll be back next week." without documenting the time frame for posterity.
Jesus said, "I'll be in the heart of the earth for 3 days and 3 nights". < Not an idiom, or a metaphor, or a parable. It is a literal span of time.
He used x amount of Jewish days, and x amount of Jewish nights. < there is your documentation.
It is kind of silly to expect documentation for using days and nights as itinerary for some other meaning. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and 24 hours means 24 hours, and 3 days and nights means 3 days and nights. Jesus said it and you can take it literally.

 

[The Irish Ram]

John: Refers to the destruction and rebuilding of the temple in "three days" (John 2:19-21), interpreted post-resurrection as referring to his body

Yep.

John2: 19-22 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” But the temple he had spoken of was his body. After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.

 

[rstrats]

You want someone to come up with an idiom that proves x days and x nights may mean something different from what it states.

As I said previously, the original intent of the topic was poorly conceived with regard to the title and body of the OP. Unfortunately, it couldn't be edited once I realized it. However, it has been clarified in a number of subsequent posts.

So, once again, the topic issue is with regard to the commonality of forecasting a daytime or a night time when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur. So far, other than one possible example with the Esther account, no one has provided any examples (plural) to show that it was a common practice.

Jesus said, "I'll be in the heart of the earth for 3 days and 3 nights". < Not an idiom, or a metaphor, or a parable. It is a literal span of time.
He used x amount of Jewish days, and x amount of Jewish nights. < there is your documentation.

That is not an example of where a daytime or a night time is forecast or said to be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could be.

 

[rosends]

I don't know if this piece of trivia has been dropped here or not yet, but did you know that in the Jewish biblical texts, the phrase "night and say" appears 3 times but "day and night" does not appear at all?

 

[The Irish Ram]

What?

the topic issue is with regard to the commonality of forecasting a daytime or a night time when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur

It's either one or the other. Daytime or nighttime.
Would it help you to use the Jewish watches in regard to commonality?

John 11:1 Jesus answered, "Are there not 12 hours in a day?"

 

[Woodznutz]

According to the New Testament, Jesus was in the tomb for parts of three days (Friday, Saturday, and Sunday), fulfilling the "three days and three nights" prophecy through first-century Jewish timekeeping. While not 72 full hours, this period included the day of death, the full day of the Sabbath, and the morning of the resurrection.

Key Details on the Timeline:

• Cultural Context: In first-century Jewish tradition, any part of a day was counted as a full day, and the night was considered part of the preceding day.
• The Days: Jesus died on Friday afternoon (Day 1), remained in the tomb all day Saturday (Day 2), and rose Sunday morning (Day 3).
• Prophecy Fulfillment: Although the traditional Friday-to-Sunday timeline represents roughly 36-38 hours, it is understood as fulfilling the "three days and three nights" mentioned in Matthew 12:40.
• Alternative Views: Some interpretations argue for a Thursday or even Wednesday crucifixion to account for 72 literal hours, though the traditional Friday-Sunday timeline remains the most widely accepted.

The resurrection on the "third day" is consistently referenced in the Gospels and 1 Corinthians 15:4.

The Jews don't get to 'interpret' what Jesus said according to their 'traditions".
Jesus qualified the time frame according to time in the days of Jonah, which predated "Jewish Tradition".

Using the part of a day or night argument combined with what Jesus stated he would have to be in the grave for part of three separate days and part of three separate nights. How would that work?

 

[Woodznutz]

What?

It's either one or the other. Daytime or nighttime.
Would it help you to use the Jewish watches in regard to commonality?
View attachment 1228728
John 11:1 Jesus answered, "Are there not 12 hours in a day?"

Exactly. You can't have part of a night occur during the day, and vice versa.

 

[rosends]

What?

It's either one or the other. Daytime or nighttime.
Would it help you to use the Jewish watches in regard to commonality?
View attachment 1228728
John 11:1 Jesus answered, "Are there not 12 hours in a day?"

that image is generally correct as far as it goes. There is, though, a lot more.