Marxism is all about picking winners and losers when it comes to businesses.

[TruthNotBS]

Wrong

Wnhen a business fails it fails not the economy

Mass production is a personal endeavor

Successfu, worker owned coops are the exception. The rule is proven that is it s a bad bunsiness model

AI only helps it does not and cannot run businesses

Once again boy we have no such system as it does not demand to be saved

Your alternatives are worse

The 2008 meltdown, triggered by giant financial institutions, plunged millions of people into unemployment and shuttered thousands of small businesses. That’s not a minor “personal” failure; it’s an economic catastrophe that spreads like wildfire. Mass production is a collective operation requiring supply chains, multiple teams, and entire communities working together and you’d have to ignore centuries of economic theory and real-world experience to pretend it’s some solitary endeavor.

As for worker-owned co-ops being a “bad business model,” that’s just baseless. Spain’s massive Mondragon Corporation, along with countless co-ops in the U.S. and worldwide, proves that workers can and do successfully run major enterprises. They prioritize job security, wage fairness, and long-term stability rather than chasing quick shareholder profits. And if you think AI “only helps” and “cannot replace human labor,” check the studies showing nearly half of all jobs are at risk of automation by 2027. Robots are already running warehouses, self-checkouts are taking over retail, and AI is handling entire supply chains.

Capitalism constantly demands bailouts, just look at the Great Depression, 2008, and the COVID crisis. Each time, governments had to pump in trillions to stop the whole system from blowing up, so let’s drop the nonsense about it never needing rescue. If you think the status quo is just fine, ask the people who lost their homes in ’08 or the millions who can’t afford healthcare under this broken system. Worker co-ops, universal healthcare, and democratic decision-making in workplaces aren’t “worse” alternatives; they’re already working better in Europe and even here in the US.

 

[Soupnazi630]

The 2008 meltdown, triggered by giant financial institutions, plunged millions of people into unemployment and shuttered thousands of small businesses. That’s not a minor “personal” failure; it’s an economic catastrophe that spreads like wildfire. Mass production is a collective operation requiring supply chains, multiple teams, and entire communities working together and you’d have to ignore centuries of economic theory and real-world experience to pretend it’s some solitary endeavor.

As for worker-owned co-ops being a “bad business model,” that’s just baseless. Spain’s massive Mondragon Corporation, along with countless co-ops in the U.S. and worldwide, proves that workers can and do successfully run major enterprises. They prioritize job security, wage fairness, and long-term stability rather than chasing quick shareholder profits. And if you think AI “only helps” and “cannot replace human labor,” check the studies showing nearly half of all jobs are at risk of automation by 2027. Robots are already running warehouses, self-checkouts are taking over retail, and AI is handling entire supply chains.

Capitalism constantly demands bailouts, just look at the Great Depression, 2008, and the COVID crisis. Each time, governments had to pump in trillions to stop the whole system from blowing up, so let’s drop the nonsense about it never needing rescue. If you think the status quo is just fine, ask the people who lost their homes in ’08 or the millions who can’t afford healthcare under this broken system. Worker co-ops, universal healthcare, and democratic decision-making in workplaces aren’t “worse” alte

The 2008 meltdown, triggered by giant financial institutions, plunged millions of people into unemployment and shuttered thousands of small businesses. That’s not a minor “personal” failure; it’s an economic catastrophe that spreads like wildfire. Mass production is a collective operation requiring supply chains, multiple teams, and entire communities working together and you’d have to ignore centuries of economic theory and real-world experience to pretend it’s some solitary endeavor.

As for worker-owned co-ops being a “bad business model,” that’s just baseless. Spain’s massive Mondragon Corporation, along with countless co-ops in the U.S. and worldwide, proves that workers can and do successfully run major enterprises. They prioritize job security, wage fairness, and long-term stability rather than chasing quick shareholder profits. And if you think AI “only helps” and “cannot replace human labor,” check the studies showing nearly half of all jobs are at risk of automation by 2027. Robots are already running warehouses, self-checkouts are taking over retail, and AI is handling entire supply chains.

Capitalism constantly demands bailouts, just look at the Great Depression, 2008, and the COVID crisis. Each time, governments had to pump in trillions to stop the whole system from blowing up, so let’s drop the nonsense about it never needing rescue. If you think the status quo is just fine, ask the people who lost their homes in ’08 or the millions who can’t afford healthcare under this broken system. Worker co-ops, universal healthcare, and democratic decision-making in workplaces aren’t “worse” alternatives; they’re already working better in Europe and even here in the US.

Wrong it was triggered by government interference moron

Capitaliam has never demanded bailouts MORON. The studies show AI only helps

Collectivism is a far worse alternatives europe is doing worse than us

 

[TruthNotBS]

Wrong it was triggered by government interference moron

Capitaliam has never demanded bailouts MORON. The studies show AI only helps

Collectivism is a far worse alternatives europe is doing worse than us

Your claim that the government singlehandedly caused the 2008 crash is laughable when nearly every serious analysis—from the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission to academic economists—pins the crisis on predatory lending, reckless speculation, and deregulation that let banks run amok with subprime mortgages and toxic derivatives. Let’s be clear: the government didn’t force Wall Street to package garbage loans into securities and lie about them, nor did it force credit agencies to slap AAA ratings on junk.

As for capitalism not demanding bailouts, tell that to the bankers who lined up in 2008 for TARP funds and the auto companies that begged for federal aid. History is unambiguous: in 1929, 2008, and again in 2020, the free market “self-regulated” itself straight into the ground, and massive public intervention was the only thing that stopped total collapse.

The idea that AI “only helps” is contradicted by countless studies (Oxford Martin School, McKinsey, etc.) showing how millions of jobs are going to be automated away. It’s already happening across industries, from self-checkouts in retail to bots handling customer service.

As for Europe being “worse,” many European nations outperform the U.S. in quality of life, healthcare, and overall well-being, so the “collectivism is worse” line doesn’t hold water unless you cherry-pick GDP growth stats without accounting for inequality, healthcare costs, or social stability. Your blanket dismissal of “collectivism” also ignores massive worker cooperatives like Spain’s Mondragon, which survived recessions more stably than many conventional corporations. Simply yelling “moron” doesn’t change these facts.

 

[Rigby5]

Back when Obama, assigned Joe Biden to distribute the 800 billion dollar stimulus package, needed because of Andrew Cuomo's sub prime mortgage fisaco, instead of going to areas that were in dire need, much of it went to bail out banks and unions. Of course these entities contributed heavily to the Obama campaign, so they got big rewards on the backs of the tax payers.

Bailout Tracker



So the rich got richer and poor got poorer under Obama.


Fast forward to today. The Computer Chips act, where billions of dollars were given, to rich people to make chips here in the US instead of overseas. So the companies on the NASDAQ are showing big time profits,(BIllions of our free tax dollars) and the stocks are soaring.

Biden Sends $53B to US Chipmakers by Signing CHIPS Act Into Law

The White House credits the act for already spurring more than $44 billion in new manufacturing plans. But rebuilding the US semiconductor industry will take years.

www.cnet.com

So the rich is getting richer and the poor staying poor under Biden/Harris.

Where is the outrage from you lefties who always say the rich should pay their fair share?

Good point.
Even though I am far left, it is true Obama should have bailed out the home owners defaulting on deceptive balloon payments, instead of letting them get repossessed and then bailing out the banks.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Your claim that the government singlehandedly caused the 2008 crash is laughable when nearly every serious analysis—from the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission to academic economists—pins the crisis on predatory lending, reckless speculation, and deregulation that let banks run amok with subprime mortgages and toxic derivatives. Let’s be clear: the government didn’t force Wall Street to package garbage loans into securities and lie about them, nor did it force credit agencies to slap AAA ratings on junk.

As for capitalism not demanding bailouts, tell that to the bankers who lined up in 2008 for TARP funds and the auto companies that begged for federal aid. History is unambiguous: in 1929, 2008, and again in 2020, the free market “self-regulated” itself straight into the ground, and massive public intervention was the only thing that stopped total collapse.

The idea that AI “only helps” is contradicted by countless studies (Oxford Martin School, McKinsey, etc.) showing how millions of jobs are going to be automated away. It’s already happening across industries, from self-checkouts in retail to bots handling customer service.

As for Europe being “worse,” many European nations outperform the U.S. in quality of life, healthcare, and overall well-being, so the “collectivism is worse” line doesn’t hold water unless you cherry-pick GDP growth stats without accounting for inequality, healthcare costs, or social stability. Your blanket dismissal of “collectivism” also ignores massive worker cooperatives like Spain’s Mondragon, which survived recessions more stably than many conventional corporations. Simply yelling “moron” doesn’t change these facts.

totally false the government was responsible and no intelligent anaysis says otherwise

europe is far worse odd

The fact that AI helps and nothing more is not contradicted by any intelligent evidence

 

[Rigby5]

So, like picking and choosing what will have a tariff and what will not?

Does this distributing an extra 22 billon dollars in cash to farmers, on top of the 25 billon dollars they already receive count under this Marxism thing you are talking about?

Subsidizing farmers that sell produce to China makes the whole USA richer, so is worth subsidizing.

 

[TruthNotBS]

totally false the government was responsible and no intelligent anaysis says otherwise

europe is far worse odd

The fact that AI helps and nothing more is not contradicted by any intelligent evidence

You haven't presented any evidence, unlike me who actually cites experts in the field. I state facts and you just respond by essentially going "NaaaAaaaaah". That's essentially your response. "NaaaAaaaaah".

 

[Soupnazi630]

You haven't presented any evidence, unlike me who actually cites experts in the field. I state facts and you just respond by essentially going "NaaaAaaaaah". That's essentially your response. "NaaaAaaaaah".

you are a liar I have presented evidence and fact you have presented ignorance based opinion and you are the only one crying like a girl when you are owned and proven wrong

 

[TruthNotBS]

you are a liar I have presented evidence and fact you have presented ignorance based opinion and you are the only one crying like a girl when you are owned and proven wrong

You've only proven your ignorance and inability to come to terms with reality.

 

[Rigby5]

Under pure Marxism any commerce and industry is owned collectively by the state and a small oligarchy will choose who will be in charge of running necessary industries. Nobody will own their own business any more or work for their own benefit.

And all but a very favored few will be quite the poorer for it.

Wrong.
Marxism is about collective means of production, but the state is supposed to have nothing to do with it.
The state is supposed to "whither away" once the evil aristocrats are neutralized.
Under Marxism, everyone can own there own business, but collective businesses should be more efficient and take over. But when you work on a collective business, you are still working for your own benefit. You just don't try to harm others like capitalist competition does now.

When you say, "all but a very few" will be the poorer for it, that is exactly capitalism.
With Marxism, the investment, labor, and benefits are spread equally, and the whole point is nothing is just for "a very few". What you described is exactly capitalism, where "all but a very few" who have a monopoly on capital, will be the poorer for it.

You not only do not understand Marxism, but have it totally backwards.

 

[Soupnazi630]

You've only proven your ignorance and inability to come to terms with reality.

I have proven you wrong ignorant and a fool

I am rooted in reality you are delusional

 

[TruthNotBS]

I have proven you wrong ignorant and a fool

I am rooted in reality you are delusional

Keep dreaming.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Wrong.
Marxism is about collective means of production, but the state is supposed to have nothing to do with it.
The state is supposed to "whither away" once the evil aristocrats are neutralized.
Under Marxism, everyone can own there own business, but collective businesses should be more efficient and take over. But when you work on a collective business, you are still working for your own benefit. You just don't try to harm others like capitalist competition does now.

When you say, "all but a very few" will be the poorer for it, that is exactly capitalism.
With Marxism, the investment, labor, and benefits are spread equally, and the whole point is nothing is just for "a very few". What you described is exactly capitalism, where "all but a very few" who have a monopoly on capital, will be the poorer for it.

You not only do not understand Marxism, but have it totally backwards.

WRONG

Marxism is about slavery genocide and tyranny The state never whithers away and never will



Under marxism there is never any private ownership of anything. Collectivist business are an overwhelming failure. you are forced to be a slave for others under marxism

 

[Soupnazi630]

Keep dreaming.

fact you are a liar and proven wrong and you know it

 

[TruthNotBS]

fact you are a liar and proven wrong and you know it

I know you're an idiot.

You can crow all you want about socialism being an “inevitable failure,” but history already shows that systems with robust social ownership, like worker co-ops and heavily socialized sectors in Scandinavian countries, have thrived on multiple fronts, from higher life satisfaction to greater economic security.

Mondragon Corporation in Spain (80,000 worker-owners strong) has weathered multiple recessions more smoothly than many traditional capitalist firms, proving that shared ownership is not just sustainable but often more resilient than top-down corporate control. Meanwhile, capitalism has a proven track record of imploding every few decades, so the notion that it’s some immortal system “destined” to win, looks pretty shaky when it requires constant life support via government bailouts.

As for AI and advanced automation, every credible study (Oxford Martin School, McKinsey, etc.) shows major job displacement is happening right now, threatening millions of workers across industries. That could give even more leverage to corporate monopolies if unchecked, but it also means we have a prime opportunity to reorganize production in ways that actually benefit the majority, be it through democratic ownership, universal basic services, or public-sector innovation.

The very technologies you say will “ensure capitalism’s success” can just as easily be used to coordinate large-scale cooperation without funneling profits to a few elite owners. Your bravado about being “younger and smarter” does nothing to refute the glaring failures of unchecked capitalism or the growing evidence that more cooperative, egalitarian models are not only possible but already thriving.

 

[Rigby5]

Obsolete. Our Technology has far outstripped the necessity of grunt labor.

Grunt labor is not diminished with technology but increased.
Assembly lines, writing code, running machines, flying drones, etc. are vastly increasing grunt work.

 

[Soupnazi630]

I know you're an idiot.

You can crow all you want about socialism being an “inevitable failure,” but history already shows that systems with robust social ownership, like worker co-ops and heavily socialized sectors in Scandinavian countries, have thrived on multiple fronts, from higher life satisfaction to greater economic security.

Mondragon Corporation in Spain (80,000 worker-owners strong) has weathered multiple recessions more smoothly than many traditional capitalist firms, proving that shared ownership is not just sustainable but often more resilient than top-down corporate control. Meanwhile, capitalism has a proven track record of imploding every few decades, so the notion that it’s some immortal system “destined” to win, looks pretty shaky when it requires constant life support via government bailouts.

As for AI and advanced automation, every credible study (Oxford Martin School, McKinsey, etc.) shows major job displacement is happening right now, threatening millions of workers across industries. That could give even more leverage to corporate monopolies if unchecked, but it also means we have a prime opportunity to reorganize production in ways that actually benefit the majority, be it through democratic ownership, universal basic services, or public-sector innovation.

The very technologies you say will “ensure capitalism’s success” can just as easily be used to coordinate large-scale cooperation without funneling profits to a few elite owners. Your bravado about being “younger and smarter” does nothing to refute the glaring failures of unchecked capitalism or the growing evidence that more cooperative, egalitarian models are not only possible but already thriving.

History shows no such thing

History shows that few worker owned coops survivie and thrive for any length of time. Most fal the exceptions are the ones like Mondragon constantly held up byt he state and tax redistricution

No credible study supports your claims of AI and advanced automation ensuring socialsim


The studies you cite only show them replace a small number sof workers and that is all


They cannot run abusiness

 

[Rigby5]

It is opposed by anyone who understands it which is most people

Wrong.
All families and tribes are always inherently communist.
So are all churches.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Wrong.
All families and tribes are always inherently communist.
So are all churches.

Wrong

they are not communist

They are organizations of voluntary cooperation

Communism is about slavery which by definition is INVOLUNTARY

 

[Rigby5]

Wrong it was triggered by government interference moron

Capitaliam has never demanded bailouts MORON. The studies show AI only helps

Collectivism is a far worse alternatives europe is doing worse than us

Wrong.
The Great Depression was caused by greed, where banks over leveraged based on the economic boom from WWI ending.
And that will always happen and always require bail outs.
Without government regulation, business would always over leverage booms until they create a bust, resulting in a very inefficient boom/bust sine wave.

The US only appears to be doing well, but is about to fail totally from massive deficits and national debt.