Marxism is all about picking winners and losers when it comes to businesses.

[Ringo]

 

[Ringo]

After World War II, the common refrain of pro-marxist messages was the need to break capitalism because of the insolubility of the contradiction between productive forces (the Scientific and Technological Revolution has raised human beings to unprecedented heights) and production relations (bourgeois parasites are driven by greed to suicide).
The material base of the initial stages of communism has been built on the planet, and this is on the basis of the Asian industrial super cluster only!
Capitalist elites, on the contrary, have completely degenerated, do not know what to do with the ever-complicating world. As a messiah, they are waiting for AI, but it is late. Do you think they invest hundreds of billions of dollars in AI for nothing? That's the only salvation of the rapidly dumbing down Capital.

 

[Soupnazi630]

The three pillars of anti-communist ideology: petty-bourgeois egocentrism (for those who aspire to be masters of life), patriarchal and religious sanctuaries (for those who have nothing to gain), and artificial dumbing down (for the youth to choose only from what is offered).

Quite wrong

the pillars are intellect and intelligence. Understanding of what communism is and the evil nature of the entire ideology

 

[TruthNotBS]

Back when Obama, assigned Joe Biden to distribute the 800 billion dollar stimulus package, needed because of Andrew Cuomo's sub prime mortgage fisaco, instead of going to areas that were in dire need, much of it went to bail out banks and unions. Of course these entities contributed heavily to the Obama campaign, so they got big rewards on the backs of the tax payers.

Bailout Tracker



So the rich got richer and poor got poorer under Obama.


Fast forward to today. The Computer Chips act, where billions of dollars were given, to rich people to make chips here in the US instead of overseas. So the companies on the NASDAQ are showing big time profits,(BIllions of our free tax dollars) and the stocks are soaring.

Biden Sends $53B to US Chipmakers by Signing CHIPS Act Into Law

The White House credits the act for already spurring more than $44 billion in new manufacturing plans. But rebuilding the US semiconductor industry will take years.

www.cnet.com

So the rich is getting richer and the poor staying poor under Biden/Harris.

Where is the outrage from you lefties who always say the rich should pay their fair share?

Capitalism's failures force society to bail out its capitalist institutions to avoid the complete collapse of its economy. Capitalism's boom and bust cycles are endemic, inevitable outcomes of a system that places private capital accumulation as its top priority rather than serving the public good or human labor (the backbone and foundation of any economy).

 

[TruthNotBS]

After World War II, the common refrain of pro-marxist messages was the need to break capitalism because of the insolubility of the contradiction between productive forces (the Scientific and Technological Revolution has raised human beings to unprecedented heights) and production relations (bourgeois parasites are driven by greed to suicide).
The material base of the initial stages of communism has been built on the planet, and this is on the basis of the Asian industrial super cluster only!
Capitalist elites, on the contrary, have completely degenerated, do not know what to do with the ever-complicating world. As a messiah, they are waiting for AI, but it is late. Do you think they invest hundreds of billions of dollars in AI for nothing? That's the only salvation of the rapidly dumbing down Capital.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Capitalism's failures force society to bail out its capitalist institutions to avoid the complete collapse of its economy. Capitalism's boom and bust cycles are endemic, inevitable outcomes of a system that places private capital accumulation as its top priority rather than serving the public good or human labor (the backbone and foundation of any economy).

That isnt Capitalism but Cronie Capitalism (where government has to pick winners and losers then bail out the winners with other people's money). In real capitalism the consumers win because every business is competing for the consumer's money, and there will be some winners and some losers, but most businesses will adapt and make well of themselves.

When businesses are thriving, so do the labor force, because if that force participates in the stock of that business, then they also will reap the rewards of their hard work. That is the dirty little secret that Unions and Democrats hate, and wont tell anyone about it.

 

[TruthNotBS]

That isnt Capitalism but Cronie Capitalism (where government has to pick winners and losers then bail out the winners with other people's money). In real capitalism the consumers win because every business is competing for the consumer's money, and there will be some winners and some losers, but most businesses will adapt and make well of themselves.

When businesses are thriving, so do the labor force, because if that force participates in the stock of that business, then they also will reap the rewards of their hard work. That is the dirty little secret that Unions and Democrats hate, and wont tell anyone about it.

You keep trying to escape the obvious by slapping the label “crony capitalism” on every failing of the system as if there’s some pristine version of capitalism out there that magically operates for the common good. That’s a textbook dodge. Cronyism isn’t an external parasite clinging to an otherwise perfect model, it’s the logical outcome of a system that inherently rewards private profit above all else, enabling the wealthiest players to influence politicians and set the rules of the game. If that weren’t the case, why do we see the same pattern (bailouts, corruption, enormous political lobbying), repeatedly across capitalist economies throughout history?

Your fairytale of a “democratic marketplace” that naturally self-regulates is willfully naive. If government inspectors disappear tomorrow, you’ll see exactly how “democratic” the competition for “consumer dollars” truly is when a few unscrupulous businesses cut corners to maximize profits at the expense of public health. People can’t always afford to wait for a court case or the “invisible hand” to eventually punish companies that are killing them. Government regulatory agencies exist to prevent abuses before they escalate into large-scale disasters.

That’s not a bug, it’s a feature of a system that prioritizes profit over public good. No amount of feel-good rhetoric about “investing in stocks” changes the fact that the overwhelming majority of people can’t buy their way into economic security when the entire deck is stacked for the wealthy. Ultimately, without firm regulation and a real commitment to the needs of society, capitalism leads to a vicious cycle of wealth concentration and political capture. Calling it “crony” capitalism doesn’t absolve the system it just proves that the so-called “free market” never truly was free for anyone but the rich. Adam Smith the father of Industrial Age capitalism wrote:

"What are the common wages of labor, depends everywhere upon the contract usually made between those two parties, whose interests are by no means the same. The workmen desire to get as much, the masters to give as little as possible. The former are disposed to combine (To form labor unions) in order to raise, the latter in order to lower the wages of labor.

It is not, however, difficult to foresee which of the two parties must, upon all ordinary occasions, have the advantage in the dispute, and force the other into a compliance with their terms. The masters, being fewer in number, can combine (In the form of chambers of commerce, industry-specific associations, and guilds, super-PACs, non-profit front organizations/NGOs, armies of lobbyists bribing politicians in the halls of government, think tanks staffed by Ivy league analysts and scholars who write the papers and legislation that they hand to the lobbyists, to give to their cronies in the US Congress) much more easily; and the law, besides, authorises, or at least does not prohibit their combinations, while it prohibits those of the workmen.

Emphasis Mine..

Even Adam Smith recognizes that Capitalists (i.e."masters") "combine" (unionize) to advance their vested interests, hence it behooves workers, to do the same. He also acknowledged that the interests of the "masters" and their workmen AREN'T THE SAME. So again, labor unions are important, in order to collectively negotiate one's terms of employment with powerful, wealthy employers/exploiters/masters.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Capitalism's failures force society to bail out its capitalist institutions to avoid the complete collapse of its economy. Capitalism's boom and bust cycles are endemic, inevitable outcomes of a system that places private capital accumulation as its top priority rather than serving the public good or human labor (the backbone and foundation of any economy).

No it does not

There is no NEED to bail out failed industry it is merely a form of corruption. Human labor is no such thing the individual mind is

 

[Stryder50]

Obsolete. Our Technology has far outstripped the necessity of grunt labor.

Yeah, I see a lot of AI robots working the fields, picking crops, milking the cows, working in the slaughter houses, etc.

 

[Stryder50]

Crony capitalism is one of the defining characteristics of modern conservatism. If you send Republicans millions in campaign donations, Republicans will return the favor with billions in sweet government cash. Trump isn't new in that regard, he's just taken the crony capitalism to new corrupt heights.

Needless to say, every Truymp cultists here enthusiastically supports that corruption, and despises anyone who calls out their love of corruption.

And needless to say, Democrats don't do it to anywhere near the extent that Republicans do it.

As is always the case on every issue, 90% of the corruption here comes from the right. That means anyone who tries a mealymouthed "WAAAAAAA but both sides do it!" is willingly running cover for the Republican corruption, and is thus part of the corruption

Let's see, Clinton, Obama, Biden (and their wives) all went right into collecting government checks right out of college. Barely any to none experience in wealth creation (free enterprise ~ capitalism), just wealth redistribution (guv'mint parasites).
Ironically all became far richer (millionaires) than would be possible had they just banked those paychecks, never spent them.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm ????????

Obviously nothing corruption wise in those DemocRATs

 

[TruthNotBS]

No it does not

There is no NEED to bail out failed industry it is merely a form of corruption. Human labor is no such thing the individual mind is

Do you seriously think we can just stand by and watch entire industries go belly-up without facing catastrophic consequences for everyone else? Letting critical financial institutions or major sectors collapse doesn’t just punish the so-called “losers” in the system; it triggers a domino effect that destroys jobs, wipes out savings, and puts families on the street.

And if you think “the mind” stands apart from labor, you’ve got it backward. A person’s cognitive abilities, creativity, and innovation are part of their labor. Workers' mental and physical effort, whether they’re designing software or building cars, creates value in the first place. Without that hands-on, brains-on work, your precious "capital" and machinery sit idle, generating nothing. Hello? What part of that didn't you understand? Labor is the foundation of the economy, it creates everything.

Spare me the free-market dogma that bailing out failed industries is never necessary. When a system is built around private profit and things go off the rails, it’s often government intervention that saves ordinary people from bearing the entire brunt of the disaster. If you’re fine with letting everyone suffer, just say so. But don’t pretend it’s some moral high ground to watch the economy crash and burn while real human beings lose everything. That's sociopathic. Are you a sociopath?

 

[TruthNotBS]

Let's see, Clinton, Obama, Biden (and their wives) all went right into collecting government checks right out of college. Barely any to none experience in wealth creation (free enterprise ~ capitalism), just wealth redistribution (guv'mint parasites).
Ironically all became far richer (millionaires) than would be possible had they just banked those paychecks, never spent them.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm ????????

Obviously nothing corruption wise in those DemocRATs

What "government checks" are you talking about? The imaginary ones in your little convoluted brain? Talking about "government checks":

Rank	Parent	Subsidy Value	Number of Awards
1	Boeing	$15,499,739,531	963
2	Intel	$8,423,581,056	139
3	Ford Motor	$7,746,892,959	704
4	General Motors	$7,533,646,692	793
5	Micron Technology	$6,790,131,915	21
6	Amazon.com	$5,887,660,428	480
7	Alcoa	$5,727,691,764	134
8	Cheniere Energy	$5,617,152,523	43
9	Foxconn Technology Group (Hon Hai Precision Industry Company)	$4,820,780,112	75
10	Venture Global LNG	$4,338,702,441	8
11	Texas Instruments	$4,286,716,512	75
12	Volkswagen	$4,103,804,970	225
13	Sempra Energy	$3,828,022,782	51
14	NRG Energy	$3,415,751,518	266
15	NextEra Energy	$3,392,737,237	119
16	Sasol	$2,836,049,845	72
17	Tesla Inc.	$2,829,855,494	116
18	Stellantis	$2,795,436,436	213
19	Walt Disney	$2,626,608,041	272
20	Nucor	$2,575,858,691	202
21	Iberdrola	$2,380,558,984	111
22	Rivian Automotive Inc.	$2,366,022,712	8
23	Hyundai Motor	$2,349,743,470	18
24	Oracle	$2,272,418,288	96
25	Shell PLC	$2,214,461,311	133
26	Alphabet Inc.	$2,140,082,221	134
27	Mubadala Investment Company	$2,124,035,097	62
28	Nike	$2,104,917,829	153
29	Meta Platforms Inc.	$2,103,574,428	83
30	Toyota	$2,071,134,513	244
31	Paramount Global	$1,986,772,523	348
32	Brookfield Corporation	$1,984,319,869	293
33	Comcast	$1,982,844,868	409
34	OGE Energy	$1,971,748,595	19
35	Exxon Mobil	$1,917,119,478	241
36	Apple Inc.	$1,912,457,519	70
37	Samsung Electronics	$1,891,262,898	44
38	Nissan	$1,842,814,165	98
39	Berkshire Hathaway	$1,834,939,931	1,221
40	Summit Power	$1,783,593,414	6
41	JPMorgan Chase	$1,740,972,699	1,151
42	Energy Transfer	$1,736,836,843	175
43	Southern Company	$1,735,931,348	45
44	Cleveland-Cliffs	$1,705,295,415	129
45	General Electric	$1,650,460,706	961
46	Duke Energy	$1,635,172,669	95
47	Vornado Realty Trust	$1,623,857,336	33
48	Eli Lilly	$1,587,988,100	82
49	Wolfspeed Inc.	$1,564,076,731	66
50	General Atomics	$1,556,475,083	113
51	IBM Corp.	$1,498,690,934	370
52	Lockheed Martin	$1,462,674,082	327
53	SCS Energy	$1,419,011,796	5
54	Corning Inc.	$1,391,611,133	403
55	Panasonic	$1,384,147,584	61
56	Microsoft	$1,368,493,159	115
57	Sagamore Development	$1,320,000,000	2
58	Northrop Grumman	$1,284,299,594	288
59	Vingroup	$1,254,021,021	2
60	Continental AG	$1,244,875,478	111
61	RTX Corporation	$1,216,214,555	805
62	CF Industries	$1,189,688,351	150
63	Valero Energy	$1,058,366,895	209
64	Dow Inc.	$1,049,400,498	642
65	AES Corp.	$1,039,510,135	136
66	Air Products & Chemicals	$1,026,557,482	89
67	SkyWest	$1,010,125,798	339
68	Exelon	$986,892,877	98
69	Pyramid Companies	$973,565,278	93
70	SK Holdings	$960,550,283	8
71	Centene	$916,959,104	67
72	Mazda Toyota Manufacturing, U.S.A., Inc.	$900,000,000	1
73	Apollo Global Management	$899,742,274	614
74	Delta Air Lines	$871,485,833	13
75	Jefferies Financial Group	$871,137,335	16
76	SK Hynix	$866,700,000	2
77	Honda	$854,285,026	98
78	Bayer	$852,475,226	217
79	Shin-Etsu Chemical	$828,683,936	106
80	Enterprise Products Partners	$826,988,371	89
81	SunEdison	$821,563,157	124
82	Goldman Sachs	$800,873,386	253
83	Bank of America	$798,465,317	957
84	Warner Bros. Discovery Inc.	$787,468,003	220
85	E.ON	$786,865,473	40
86	EDF-Electricite de France	$781,143,574	36
87	Triple Five Worldwide	$748,000,000	4
88	EDP-Energias de Portugal	$733,674,868	14
89	Related Companies	$714,675,504	8
90	Koch Industries	$698,421,970	518
91	Caithness Energy	$672,688,888	30
92	Dell Technologies	$658,417,951	185
93	Wells Fargo	$657,333,216	543
94	FedEx	$649,583,890	637
95	Entergy	$638,533,387	235
96	OCI N.V.	$627,879,406	5
97	Chevron Phillips Chemical	$619,839,444	20
98	Bedrock Detroit	$618,000,000	1
99	Dominion Energy	$615,465,134	80

Download results as CSV or XML or Save your search (Click here for information on download subscriptions)

 

[Ringo]

Do you seriously think we can just stand by and watch entire industries go belly-up without facing catastrophic consequences for everyone else?

. That's sociopathic. Are you a sociopath?

No, he's a latent communist. He wants to act according to the instructions written in the Communist hymn: “We will destroy the whole world of violence, to the foundations...”

 

[TruthNotBS]

​

 

[Soupnazi630]

Do you seriously think we can just stand by and watch entire industries go belly-up without facing catastrophic consequences for everyone else? Letting critical financial institutions or major sectors collapse doesn’t just punish the so-called “losers” in the system; it triggers a domino effect that destroys jobs, wipes out savings, and puts families on the street.

And if you think “the mind” stands apart from labor, you’ve got it backward. A person’s cognitive abilities, creativity, and innovation are part of their labor. Workers' mental and physical effort, whether they’re designing software or building cars, creates value in the first place. Without that hands-on, brains-on work, your precious "capital" and machinery sit idle, generating nothing. Hello? What part of that didn't you understand? Labor is the foundation of the economy, it creates everything.

Spare me the free-market dogma that bailing out failed industries is never necessary. When a system is built around private profit and things go off the rails, it’s often government intervention that saves ordinary people from bearing the entire brunt of the disaster. If you’re fine with letting everyone suffer, just say so. But don’t pretend it’s some moral high ground to watch the economy crash and burn while real human beings lose everything. That's sociopathic. Are you a sociopath?

Yes we can.

that is fact

I have it forward you on the other hand are out of touch with reality. Only fans proves you a fool.

No I am not sparing you. It is in your face

Your farcical and delusional claim that bailouts are forced or necessary is stupid illogical and wrong. Government saves no such thing it only interfers and inneffectively. Business failing will not crash the economy DUMBASS

 

[TruthNotBS]

Yes we can.

that is fact

I have it forward you on the other hand are out of touch with reality. Only fans proves you a fool.

No I am not sparing you. It is in your face

Your farcical and delusional claim that bailouts are forced or necessary is stupid illogical and wrong. Government saves no such thing it only interfers and inneffectively. Business failing will not crash the economy DUMBASS

Why don’t you drop the infantile smug act for a second and think about who bears the brunt of an economic collapse when businesses fail on a massive scale. Hint: it’s not the corporate elites who you worship. It’s the working-class families who lose their jobs, their healthcare, their homes, and their chance at a decent life. Your so-called “hardcore capitalism” approach boils down to telling them “FUCK YOU!” while everything goes up in flames. That’s not heroic or logical; it’s just heartless. Whether you like it or not, the government stepping in during a crisis is often the only thing standing between ordinary people and total destitution.

Spare me the nonsense about labor not being the foundation of the economy. You can’t even flip a light switch without the work of electricians, factory workers, miners, and the rest of society that keeps your lights on and your fridge stocked. Those folks aren’t cogs you can toss aside; they’re the engine that keeps the market running. When the working majority (94% or more) goes under, there is no market left for your precious capitalist assholes, to exploit.

Even Elon Musk, your billionaire god, admits we’re heading for mass unemployment and that government intervention (UBI and regulation) will be needed to keep society afloat.

​

If we’re at a point where billionaires are begging for bailouts and wage subsidies, maybe, just maybe, we should question whether having a tiny class of privileged, greedy capitalist “owners” is even necessary when technology can handle much of production. There's no need for them.

So next time you sneer at “stupid,” “illogical,” and “wrong” claims that bailouts or regulations might be necessary, try considering the reality: capitalism needs constant saving from itself. We already have the government stepping in to prevent total collapse whenever the greed train derails. Why not take that to its logical conclusion, democratize production, and cut out the parasitic capitalist middlemen at the top who treat the rest of us like expendable ATMs? If you’re still cheerleading a system that can only survive by crashing and burning everyone else, you're obviously the "dumbass".

 

[Soupnazi630]

Why don’t you drop the infantile smug act for a second and think about who bears the brunt of an economic collapse when businesses fail on a massive scale. Hint: it’s not the corporate elites who you worship. It’s the working-class families who lose their jobs, their healthcare, their homes, and their chance at a decent life. Your so-called “hardcore capitalism” approach boils down to telling them “FUCK YOU!” while everything goes up in flames. That’s not heroic or logical; it’s just heartless. Whether you like it or not, the government stepping in during a crisis is often the only thing standing between ordinary people and total destitution.

Spare me the nonsense about labor not being the foundation of the economy. You can’t even flip a light switch without the work of electricians, factory workers, miners, and the rest of society that keeps your lights on and your fridge stocked. Those folks aren’t cogs you can toss aside; they’re the engine that keeps the market running. When the working majority (94% or more) goes under, there is no market left for your precious capitalist assholes, to exploit.

Even Elon Musk, your billionaire god, admits we’re heading for mass unemployment and that government intervention (UBI and regulation) will be needed to keep society afloat.

​

If we’re at a point where billionaires are begging for bailouts and wage subsidies, maybe, just maybe, we should question whether having a tiny class of privileged, greedy capitalist “owners” is even necessary when technology can handle much of production. There's no need for them.

So next time you sneer at “stupid,” “illogical,” and “wrong” claims that bailouts or regulations might be necessary, try considering the reality: capitalism needs constant saving from itself. We already have the government stepping in to prevent total collapse whenever the greed train derails. Why not take that to its logical conclusion, democratize production, and cut out the parasitic capitalist middlemen at the top who treat the rest of us like expendable ATMs? If you’re still cheerleading a system that can only survive by crashing and burning everyone else, you're obviously the "dumbass".

That is not how economics works moron

The collapse of a business or businesses does not collapse the economy. There is no such thing as a business too big to fail

Capitalism never bails itself out or has to be bailed out you pompous but utterly stupid fool.

Democratixing everything is not a ligicalnext step. It is a violatiuon of property rights which means human rights resulting in poverty genocide and slavery for all.

Middle men are not parasitic tyou retarded DOLT they fill a necessary demand which your collectivist ideas cannot figure out even with the best AI

No worker has a job without someone smarter PROVIDING IT

learn how reality works you feckless delusional twat

 

[TruthNotBS]

That is not how economics works moron

The collapse of a business or businesses does not collapse the economy. There is no such thing as a business too big to fail

Capitalism never bails itself out or has to be bailed out you pompous but utterly stupid fool.

Democratixing everything is not a ligicalnext step. It is a violatiuon of property rights which means human rights resulting in poverty genocide and slavery for all.

Middle men are not parasitic tyou retarded DOLT they fill a necessary demand which your collectivist ideas cannot figure out even with the best AI

No worker has a job without someone smarter PROVIDING IT

learn how reality works you feckless delusional twat

When large financial institutions are tightly interwoven with everything from credit lines to consumer confidence, their collapse doesn't vanish in some free-market puff of smoke. It throws millions out of work and crushes small businesses that relied on those bigger players to function.

Leaving vital industries to fend for themselves in a crisis, under the notion that “the market will naturally correct itself,” doesn’t just risk a handful of corporate bankruptcies, it risks the livelihoods of millions of people. When major businesses collapse, it’s not just top executives who feel the pain; it’s the workers who suddenly have no job, no healthcare, and no financial cushion to ride out the storm. Entire communities that rely on those jobs and services are thrown into chaos, putting even more strain on public resources like welfare and unemployment benefits. This chain reaction can rapidly turn an economic downturn into a full-blown societal crisis that drags on for years, possibly crippling a nation’s long-term development.

Believing that all this misery is just a necessary part of “creative destruction” or the so-called “invisible hand” at work is both callous and shortsighted. An economy, at its core, is supposed to serve the people who participate in it, not demand their sacrifice on the altar of market purity

Over the last century, any number of crises, from the Great Depression to the 2008 crash to COVID, have required heavy government intervention to keep entire markets from imploding. Trying to link democratized production with genocide or slavery is just empty scare tactics. The idea of workers collectively owning and managing their workplaces isn’t about marching anybody off to camps.

Mondragon in Spain is one modern example of a large-scale worker cooperative where people have job stability, better representation, and more say in how the business is run.

​

Here is an American worker-owned cooperative:

​

Equating shared ownership of factories or resources with somehow losing the right to own a toothbrush is a deliberate mix-up of personal property and the productive property that generates social wealth. It's not confiscating your home or your car; it’s giving workers a stake in their own labor instead of handing power to a tiny capitalist class.

The notion that so-called “middle men” are absolutely essential and irreplaceable becomes shaky when you look at advancements in automation and AI. Technology is already cutting out layers of needless corporate bureaucracy and distribution channels. Worker cooperatives or public ownership can handle coordination and logistics without a cadre of profit-skimming intermediaries.

We already see how AI can schedule complex supply chains more efficiently than a room full of suits trying to maximize short-term gains. When people say workers only have jobs thanks to “someone smarter” who provides them, they’re reversing cause and effect. It’s the workforce, teachers, miners, truck drivers, engineers, who produce value every day. A single investor or boss can’t manage every aspect of production by themselves.

Mass production has always been and continues to be today, a social endeavor not a personal one. Mass production isn't a personal venture, but a social one, hence it should be owned and operated by the people who work the productive enterprise, not a little, unelected dictator. Just as we (at least theoretically in principle) have democracy in politics, we should also have it in the workplace, where we spend most of our waking hours. All of our leadership at work should be elected and accountable to the workers (the staff), because just as we have zero tolerance for unelected masters in government, we should likewise be intolerant of them in the workplace.

Moreover, entrepreneurs often depend on the public education system, government research grants, and taxpayer-funded infrastructure to succeed. Yes, some innovators exist, but it’s disingenuous to suggest that the American workforce would be lost without a wealthy unelected master at the helm. There are better ways to organize our labor.

The final irony is being told to “learn how reality works” by someone hurling insults instead of evidence. Reality is that capitalism has a brutal track record of colonial exploitation, child labor, labor abuse, cyclical crashes, and obscene inequality where billionaires sit on fortunes too big to spend in a hundred lifetimes. The reality is that every major collapse: 1929, 2008, the COVID downturn....required big government action to keep the system from totally cannibalizing itself.

None of this proves capitalism is indispensable. AI and automation can already handle many of the tasks capitalists use to justify their lofty positions at the top of the food chain. We have plenty of examples of worker-owned enterprises that run just fine, often outperforming their privately owned, traditional, capitalist-run counterparts in stability and fairness. Shifting resources toward social needs rather than shareholder dividends opens the door to better healthcare, education, housing, and more democratic, humane work environments. Meanwhile, capitalism’s long record of meltdowns, exploitation, and savage inequality speaks for itself.

The only thing that’s truly past its expiration date is the idea that we have no alternative to a system that keeps imploding and then demands to be saved, time and again, by the very people it exploits. AI and modern technology only make it easier to coordinate production without funneling profits to a handful of greedy, capitalist sociopaths.

 

[TruthNotBS]

​

 

[Soupnazi630]

When large financial institutions are tightly interwoven with everything from credit lines to consumer confidence, their collapse doesn't vanish in some free-market puff of smoke. It throws millions out of work and crushes small businesses that relied on those bigger players to function.

Leaving vital industries to fend for themselves in a crisis, under the notion that “the market will naturally correct itself,” doesn’t just risk a handful of corporate bankruptcies, it risks the livelihoods of millions of people. When major businesses collapse, it’s not just top executives who feel the pain; it’s the workers who suddenly have no job, no healthcare, and no financial cushion to ride out the storm. Entire communities that rely on those jobs and services are thrown into chaos, putting even more strain on public resources like welfare and unemployment benefits. This chain reaction can rapidly turn an economic downturn into a full-blown societal crisis that drags on for years, possibly crippling a nation’s long-term development.

Believing that all this misery is just a necessary part of “creative destruction” or the so-called “invisible hand” at work is both callous and shortsighted. An economy, at its core, is supposed to serve the people who participate in it, not demand their sacrifice on the altar of market purity

Over the last century, any number of crises, from the Great Depression to the 2008 crash to COVID, have required heavy government intervention to keep entire markets from imploding. Trying to link democratized production with genocide or slavery is just empty scare tactics. The idea of workers collectively owning and managing their workplaces isn’t about marching anybody off to camps.

Mondragon in Spain is one modern example of a large-scale worker cooperative where people have job stability, better representation, and more say in how the business is run.

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Here is an American worker-owned cooperative:

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Equating shared ownership of factories or resources with somehow losing the right to own a toothbrush is a deliberate mix-up of personal property and the productive property that generates social wealth. It's not confiscating your home or your car; it’s giving workers a stake in their own labor instead of handing power to a tiny capitalist class.

The notion that so-called “middle men” are absolutely essential and irreplaceable becomes shaky when you look at advancements in automation and AI. Technology is already cutting out layers of needless corporate bureaucracy and distribution channels. Worker cooperatives or public ownership can handle coordination and logistics without a cadre of profit-skimming intermediaries.

We already see how AI can schedule complex supply chains more efficiently than a room full of suits trying to maximize short-term gains. When people say workers only have jobs thanks to “someone smarter” who provides them, they’re reversing cause and effect. It’s the workforce, teachers, miners, truck drivers, engineers, who produce value every day. A single investor or boss can’t manage every aspect of production by themselves.

Mass production has always been and continues to be today, a social endeavor not a personal one. Mass production isn't a personal venture, but a social one, hence it should be owned and operated by the people who work the productive enterprise, not a little, unelected dictator. Just as we (at least theoretically in principle) have democracy in politics, we should also have it in the workplace, where we spend most of our waking hours. All of our leadership at work should be elected and accountable to the workers (the staff), because just as we have zero tolerance for unelected masters in government, we should likewise be intolerant of them in the workplace.

Moreover, entrepreneurs often depend on the public education system, government research grants, and taxpayer-funded infrastructure to succeed. Yes, some innovators exist, but it’s disingenuous to suggest that the American workforce would be lost without a wealthy unelected master at the helm. There are better ways to organize our labor.

The final irony is being told to “learn how reality works” by someone hurling insults instead of evidence. Reality is that capitalism has a brutal track record of colonial exploitation, child labor, labor abuse, cyclical crashes, and obscene inequality where billionaires sit on fortunes too big to spend in a hundred lifetimes. The reality is that every major collapse: 1929, 2008, the COVID downturn....required big government action to keep the system from totally cannibalizing itself.

None of this proves capitalism is indispensable. AI and automation can already handle many of the tasks capitalists use to justify their lofty positions at the top of the food chain. We have plenty of examples of worker-owned enterprises that run just fine, often outperforming their privately owned, traditional, capitalist-run counterparts in stability and fairness. Shifting resources toward social needs rather than shareholder dividends opens the door to better healthcare, education, housing, and more democratic, humane work environments. Meanwhile, capitalism’s long record of meltdowns, exploitation, and savage inequality speaks for itself.

The only thing that’s truly past its expiration date is the idea that we have no alternative to a system that keeps imploding and then demands to be saved, time and again, by the very people it exploits. AI and modern technology only make it easier to coordinate production without funneling profits to a handful of greedy, capitalist sociopaths.

Wrong

Wnhen a business fails it fails not the economy

Mass production is a personal endeavor

Successfu, worker owned coops are the exception. The rule is proven that is it s a bad bunsiness model

AI only helps it does not and cannot run businesses

Once again boy we have no such system as it does not demand to be saved

Your alternatives are worse