Zone1 Mandelbrot Sets -- Proof of God?

[zaangalewa]

More presumption. Insects are creators, e.g., bee hives, termite mounds, etc., maybe the creator of the universe was an insect?

If you make a science fiction film and you invent for this film an intelligent spider race and a spider will tell you in this film a great story about how this father gave his life energy and body to his mother so she had had enough energy to bear him and that he will also fulfill his life one dsay by sacrifying his body and life enrgy to a beloved female spider. ... What is this spider now? ... I'll tell you: A human being, a child of god.

If that is the case, the pinnacle of evolution may be insects and intelligence is just an interesting, if unimportant, evolutionary deadend.

Insects are not unimportant. Never life is unimportant. Life is the most valueable form of matter in the whole universe. And insects need our help now. We have to improve their living conditions. We are the king of gods creation. So we are responsible for all and every life here.

 

[zaangalewa]

ding

The stence from me "Why is it more easy to be than not be ¿a? nothing?" is nonsense. If you did not find this out immediately then you do not listen what others really say. Normally no one corrects such sentences beause it is for everyone clear what someone really liked to say. The correct sentence would be "Why is it more easy not to be a nothing than to be a nothing?". Shakespeare's "to be or not to be" played here a trick on me.

 

[zaangalewa]

I accept Jefferson’s calculations.

He made no calculation - he just simple repeated a prejudice. Did you for examlpler know that Jefferson had sent Christian missionaries to Red Indian tribes (payed from the US-American taxpayers) because he saws in this the only way how the Red Indians are able to survive?

He had a much better view of Catholic sponsored state terrorism than I do.

What a nonsense. Jefferson had nearly no sources. You have much more possibilities than he had. Also thanks of Jefferson.

Washington Adams and Madison and Tom Paine, and many of the American revolutionaries agreed at the time that the Catholic Church, was, in large part, responsible for all the bloodbaths of Europe.

Who of them was a Catholic?

I can’t believe a word you say about anything

Because I am a Catholic? What to say to such a convincing argument? ¿"Go and kill your president!"?

You say just simple "I am not a man of the enlightenment" although the USA is a born child of the enlightenment. When did you abort this child? Or do you really think the people some hundreds years ago knew everything and made no mistakes?

-----
Immanuel Kant:
What is Enlightenment?, 1784
Was ist Äufklarung? [Correct is: Was ist Aufklärung?]

Enlightenment is man's release from his self-incurred tutelage. Tutelage s man's
inability to make use of his understanding without direction from another. Self-
incurred is this tutelage when its cause lies not in lack of reason but in lack of
resolution and courage to use it without direction from another. Sapere aude! "Have
courage to use your own reason!"- that is the motto of enlightenment.
Laziness and cowardice are the reasons why so great a portion of mankind, after
nature has long since discharged them from external direction (naturaliter
maiorennes), nevertheless remains under lifelong tutelage, and why it is so easy for
others to set themselves up as their guardians. It is so easy not to be of age. If I have a
book which understands for me, a pastor who has a conscience for me, a physician
who decides my diet, and so forth, I need not trouble myself. I need not think, if I can
only pay - others will easily undertake the irksome work for me. ...
-----
Source: https://resources.saylor.org/wwwres...ent/uploads/2011/02/What-is-Enlightenment.pdf

 

[ding]

Why for heavens sake do you always try to speak only in empty phrases with me? Ever heard the sentence "I do not know"? The deeper component of this question is: Why is it more easy to exist for the universe (or anything within) than not to exist. Why is it more easy to be than not be ¿a? nothing? And do not try to tell me now god is stupid and you are his prophet.

And in general is perhaps also a question "What for heaven sake coud be "nothing"? Why do we have word for something what we call nothing? Is this not the most absurde words of all words at all? In a matrix of atoms for example (atoms=elements now) a missing atom - a hole - is a candidate for a quantum bit. Eh? A nothing is a kind of invisible number between 0 and 1? No one understands this. Do you? Pi for example is a transcendent number. A number with a never ending not periodic fraction. So pi-3 is also a transcendent number between 0 and 1. How is such a number able to have enough space in a gap between atoms? The belief of Christians - which is by the way unimportant or the essential Christian belief - that god made the world out of nothing is ... ¿how to say this? ... this belief seems to become more and more less absurde. Perhaps it will be one day a scietific fact? Who knows?

And in general I have also to warn everyone to use the word "not" without to start to think serios. This word produces often a wrong "inspiration" to be allknowing. Example: What is a not-pencil? It is everything except a pencil! But knows anyone everything about everything if he not knows something about a pencil? So "in god we trust" is also more than only an empty phrase.

It's not an empty phrase and you should already know that science tells us the universe was not created from pre-existing matter/energy.

 

[ding]

ding

The stence from me "Why is it more easy to be than not be ¿a? nothing?" is nonsense. If you did not find this out immediately then you do not listen what others really say. Normally no one corrects such sentences beause it is for everyone clear what someone really liked to say. The correct sentence would be "Why is it more easy not to be a nothing than to be a nothing?". Shakespeare's "to be or not to be" played here a trick on me.

Please educate yourself.

Modern Physics, the Beginning, and Creation

Some religious people look upon the discovery of the Big Bang as a scientific proof that the universe was created by God. Some atheists, on the other...

www.catholiceducation.org

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Who of them was a Catholic?

Do you think Separation of Church and State (freedom of conscience) in a nation of the ‘consented to be governed under established secular law’ people would be part of the soul/essence of America had all thirteen colonies been inhabited by an entirely devoted Catholic population willfully being governed by Rome instead of an English Protestant King in 1776?

Mandelbrot Sets -- Proof of God​

nfbw 240324 Vmspog00126 to Smspog00123

 

[zaangalewa]

It's not an empty phrase

It was. You said nothing at all to me.

and you should already know that science tells us the universe was not created from pre-existing matter/energy.

I never said so. Learn to understand what others say instead to try to force them to be the same idiot as you like to be.

 

[zaangalewa]

Please educate yourself. ...

 

[alang1216]

From your atheistic moral center?

Yes, though I'm not sure physical beauty has a moral component. As for my lack of belief in the supernatural, I'd bet my Western moral center is little different from any other Westerner, atheist, agnostic, theist, or deist.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Because I am a Catholic? What to say to such a convincing argument? ¿"Go and kill your president!"?

I did not know you were Catholic. I do not believe you because you said you have the numbers worked out but you asked me to do my own research which is absurd . I am explicitly calling you a liar because I do not believe you have done research that produced the claim you made. In an intellectual contest there may be fight or flight. You chose flight when asked for your backup . Thsnk yiu very much.

I respect Catholics whether they be
adherents to American Civil Religion or not.

Do you know what that is?

Here for you Saint Zangalawa is a taste of American Civil Enlightenment which was the greatest gift from our enlightenment revolutionary decades’ founders and the freedom thinking foot soldiers who gave them power to brighten the too long dark despotic world - 1770 through 1820,

​

American Enlightenment Thought | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

iep.utm.edu

American Enlightenment Thought​

Although there is no consensus about the exact span of time that corresponds to the American Enlightenment, it is safe to say that it occurred during the eighteenth century among thinkers in British North America and the early United States and was inspired by the ideas of the British and French Enlightenments. Based on the metaphor of bringing light to the Dark Age, the Age of the Enlightenment (Siècle des lumières in French and Aufklärung in German) shifted allegiances away from absolute authority, whether religious or political, to more skeptical and optimistic attitudes about human nature, religion and politics. In the American context, thinkers such as Thomas Paine, James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and Benjamin Franklin invented and adopted revolutionary ideas about scientific rationality, religious toleration and experimental political organization—ideas that would have far-reaching effects on the development of the fledgling nation. Some coupled science and religion in the notion of deism; others asserted the natural rights of man in the anti-authoritarian doctrine of liberalism; and still others touted the importance of cultivating virtue, enlightened leadership and community in early forms of republican thinking. At least six ideas came to punctuate American Enlightenment thinking: deism, liberalism, republicanism, conservatism, toleration and scientific progress. Many of these were shared with European Enlightenment thinkers, but in some instances took a uniquely American form.

Mandelbrot Sets -- Proof of God​

nfbw 240324 Vmspog00130 to Smspog00123

 

[ding]

It was. You said nothing at all to me.

My saying the universe is expanding in the mind of God is nothing to you?

 

[ding]

I never said so. Learn to understand what others say instead to try to force them to be the same idiot as you like to be.

Maybe you should worry about yourself.

 

[zaangalewa]

Do you think Separation of Church and State (freedom of conscience) in a nation of the ‘consented to be governed under established secular law’ people would be part of the soul/essence of America had all thirteen colonies been inhabited by an entirely devoted Catholic population willfully being governed by Rome instead of an English Protestant King in 1776? ...

I think this is a strange and anti-enlightening answer to the question "Who of them had been a Catholic?" - specially also because the complete modern world including enlightenment and humanism is a child of the catholic renaissance made in Italy.

 

[zaangalewa]

My saying the universe is expanding in the mind of God is nothing to you?

It's an empty phrase to say so. If I don't know something I say "I do not know". I do not need empty phrases. In my begin here in this world I knew nothing - and when I will leave this planet I will leave it more naked than naked.

 

[ding]

Yes, though I'm not sure physical beauty has a moral component. As for my lack of belief in the supernatural, I'd bet my Western moral center is little different from any other Westerner, atheist, agnostic, theist, or deist.

Maybe so but from my perspective your need to tear down the beliefs of others to build yours up is no different.

 

[ding]

It's an empty phrase to say so.

Again... saying the universe is expanding in the mind of God is not an empty phrase. It conveys a wealth of information. For instance it conveys that the universe is an alternate reality. It conveys that the universe exists at the pleasure of God. It conveys that the universe is made up of mind stuff.

It seems to me your stock answer to anything you don't understand is "empty phrase."

 

[NotfooledbyW]

I think this is a strange and anti-enlightening answer to the question "Who of them had been a Catholic?" - specially also because the complete modern world including enlightenment and humanism is a child of the catholic renaissance made in Italy.

You and Saint Ding should be getting along much better than you are.

The Church of Rome quenched enlightened liberal thinking whenever a friction created the slightest ember for over one thousand years, Now the Church of the Son of God proclaims the way was lit by their record label of Jesus and all can come freely to him or suffer eternal torment. The Church is still dark when it comes to individual liberty in my opinion. I care not to partake in Catholic belief just because it produced some good. It did so despite itself.

Mandelbrot Sets -- Proof of God​

nfbw 240324 Vmspog00037 to Smsoog00133

.

 

[zaangalewa]

Maybe so but from my perspective your need to tear down the beliefs of others to build yours up is no different.

I tear nothing down.

 

[alang1216]

Maybe so but from my perspective your need to tear down the beliefs of others to build yours up is no different.

You seem fond of tearing down my beliefs. So, if you're right, I guess we are no different in that regard.

 

[zaangalewa]

You and Saint Ding should be getting along much better than you are.

The Church of Rome quenched enlightened liberal thinking whenever a friction created the slightest ember for over one thousand years, Now the Church of the Son of God proclaims the way was lit by their record label of Jesus and all can come freely to him or suffer eternal torment. The Church is still dark when it vines to individual liberty in my opinion. I care not to partake in Catholic belief just because it produced some good. It did so despite itself.

So you are a Christian because you hate Catholics. When will you kill your president Joe Biden as you did kill John F. Kennedy?