Zone1 Mandelbrot Sets -- Proof of God?

[ding]

Most things in this world make no distinction between good and evil, e.g., evolution, gravity, etc. To say that somehow a belief in a supernatural being does make a distinction since you can find just about any definition of good and evil in the religions of the world.

And yet you can't rid of your sense of fairness or find any flaw in your sense of fairness. Seems universal to me.

 

[alang1216]

Atheism proceeds in almost all its manifestations from the assumption that the basic principles guiding the life of an individual and of mankind in general do not go beyond the satisfaction of material needs or primitive instincts. They have no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure.

Spoken like a theist telling atheists what they believe. And just completely wrong. I, for example, value my children and would endure great pain to protect them.

 

[alang1216]

And yet you can't rid of your sense of fairness or find any flaw in your sense of fairness. Seems universal to me.

So atheists have a moral code like everyone else?

 

[zaangalewa]

I did not know you were Catholic. I do not believe you because you said you have the numbers worked out but you asked me to do my own research which is absurd .

No - this is not absurde. If you find it not out on your own you will anyway not believe what I say. And I do not see any sense to repeat this job now. I made it once only for my own clearness.

I am explicitly calling you a liar ...

Bye bye.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

If you find it not out on your own you will anyway not believe what I say. And I do not see any sense to repeat this job now

No you are a liar, You did no such research.

 

[BreezeWood]

your belief simply does nothing - for your belief ... in a 4th century book of forgeries and fallacies.

On the contrary, my faith turns on all the learning centers of the mind.

not sure faith over fact would be more value to your brain than for what is real to have something for it to build on.

- as the paradisian goal, heavenly religion of antiquity to triumph good vs evil at least has an objective to establish concrete resolutions.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Atheism proceeds in almost all its manifestations from the assumption that the basic principles guiding the life of an individual and of mankind in general do not go beyond the satisfaction of material needs or primitive instincts. They have no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure.

Nice smear. Hope you feel better.

 

[BreezeWood]

the happy video to the end - one problem for you zaan ...

everyone of them were atheist, its obvious liberation theology set them free from the desert.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Did you notice that "Mandelbrot" and "Feigenbaum" are two Jewish names? What about if they got their mathematical ideas, intuitions and theories with the help of god?

What if they didn't? Here, read this:

One Scientist's Path to Atheism: Lester Goldstein - Freedom From Religion Foundation

By Lester Goldstein Lester Goldstein FFRF Life Member and Nobel Laureate in Chemistry Paul D. Boyer wrote an article in the March 2004 Freethought Tod...

ffrf.org

 

[ding]

Nice smear. Hope you feel better.

Maybe you shouldn't be an atheist if you can't accept the logical consequence of only believing that you are only a material being.

 

[ding]

not sure faith over fact would be more value to your brain than for what is real to have something for it to build on.

- as the paradisian goal, heavenly religion of antiquity to triumph good vs evil at least has an objective to establish concrete resolutions.

The human brain does what the human brain does. Can there be anything more valuable to a being that knows and creates than to have all the learning centers of his mind switched on?

A good Christian focuses on the journey and not the destination. Doing the right thing, the right way for the right reasons is its own reward. The destination takes care of itself.

 

[ding]

So atheists have a moral code like everyone else?

The Free Masons respond:

Can Atheists follow moral law?
Again, from an areligious perspective,an Atheist can hold the same values that a non-Atheist holds, but for different reasons. A religious man may hold moral law to be a sacred or divine teaching, whereas a man without religion may believe that “doing good” is beneficial to himself and all of humanity, though not link it to God. Therefore, Atheists are capable of reaching the same end, that of acting uprightly, though they may have used different means to arrive at their conclusion. If Atheists can practice brotherly love, relief, and truth, then why deny them admittance to our Order? Paton (p.154) suggests that the Atheist “… acknowledges no relation to God which should lead to fear, or hope, or love, or obedience. To him, as to the most absolute speculative atheist, the moral law is nothing.” Paton suggests that following moral law is but a whim, a fleet of fancy which may be turned upon because a man who does not fear God has no reason to remain moral. Perhaps the best example of this philosophy was given by Albert Pike (ch. 23): The intellect of the Atheist would find matter everywhere; but no Causing and Providing Mind: his moral sense would find no Equitable Will, no Beauty of Moral Excellence, no Conscience enacting justice into the unchanging law of right, no spiritual Order or spiritual Providence, but only material Fate and Chance. His affections would find only finite things to love; and to them the dead who were loved and who died yesterday, are like the rainbow that yesterday evening lived a moment and then passed away. His soul, flying through the vast Inane, and feeling the darkness with its wings, seeking the Soul of all, which at once is Reason, Conscience, and the Heart of all that is, would find no God, but a universe all disorder; no Infinite, no Reason, no Conscience, no Heart, no Soul of things; nothing to reverence, to esteem, to love, to worship, to trust in; but only an Ugly Force, alien and foreign to us, that strikes down those we love, and makes us mere worms on the hot sand of the world. No voice would speak from the Earth to comfort him.

PS Review of Freemasonry

www.freemasons-freemasonry.com

 

[ding]

Spoken like a theist telling atheists what they believe. And just completely wrong. I, for example, value my children and would endure great pain to protect them.

Actually it was penned by a humanist and his sources were appropriately cited. It's not just his opinion.

The Socialist Phenomenon

I'm sure you would protect your loved ones at your own expense. Like I said before, you may pretend you don't believe in universal truths but your sense of fairness says otherwise.

 

[Grumblenuts]

The U.S. Constitution is unique in its godlessness. Its only mentions of religion are exclusionary, keeping religion out of government and vice versa, except for a curious little appendage: the date, “the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven.

”These days, “Year of our Lord” is a relic that has been mostly discarded. This anachronistic dating convention is, from time to time, reported to my organization, the Freedom From Religion Foundation, and we’ve helped remove it from diplomas and other government documents. Often all it takes is a complaint. After all, more than 100 million Americans are not Christian and having the Christian lord on their diploma or marriage certificate or bar admission is understandably a bit galling.

 

[BreezeWood]

The human brain does what the human brain does. Can there be anything more valuable to a being that knows and creates than to have all the learning centers of his mind switched on?

A good Christian focuses on the journey and not the destination. Doing the right thing, the right way for the right reasons is its own reward. The destination takes care of itself.

you misunderstand bing - brain is physiology ...

the unique spiritual content is what determines for the brain that which is good and evil - the spiritual content hasn't learning centers, its source is the manifestation of the metaphysical forces that created life - that's why what evolves is important to the heavens.

 

[alang1216]

The Free Masons respond:

Can Atheists follow moral law?
Again, from an areligious perspective,an Atheist can hold the same values that a non-Atheist holds, but for different reasons. A religious man may hold moral law to be a sacred or divine teaching, whereas a man without religion may believe that “doing good” is beneficial to himself and all of humanity, though not link it to God. Therefore, Atheists are capable of reaching the same end, that of acting uprightly, though they may have used different means to arrive at their conclusion. If Atheists can practice brotherly love, relief, and truth, then why deny them admittance to our Order? Paton (p.154) suggests that the Atheist “… acknowledges no relation to God which should lead to fear, or hope, or love, or obedience. To him, as to the most absolute speculative atheist, the moral law is nothing.” Paton suggests that following moral law is but a whim, a fleet of fancy which may be turned upon because a man who does not fear God has no reason to remain moral. Perhaps the best example of this philosophy was given by Albert Pike (ch. 23): The intellect of the Atheist would find matter everywhere; but no Causing and Providing Mind: his moral sense would find no Equitable Will, no Beauty of Moral Excellence, no Conscience enacting justice into the unchanging law of right, no spiritual Order or spiritual Providence, but only material Fate and Chance. His affections would find only finite things to love; and to them the dead who were loved and who died yesterday, are like the rainbow that yesterday evening lived a moment and then passed away. His soul, flying through the vast Inane, and feeling the darkness with its wings, seeking the Soul of all, which at once is Reason, Conscience, and the Heart of all that is, would find no God, but a universe all disorder; no Infinite, no Reason, no Conscience, no Heart, no Soul of things; nothing to reverence, to esteem, to love, to worship, to trust in; but only an Ugly Force, alien and foreign to us, that strikes down those we love, and makes us mere worms on the hot sand of the world. No voice would speak from the Earth to comfort him.

It may be consoling to many that their morality comes from heaven above but they're wrong, it comes from right here on earth. The society/culture we live in provides our moral compass. It tells us what is right and what is wrong. We may choose to ignore it, but when we do we know we are doing wrong. This is easy to prove if one studies history. If there was one God with one unchanging moral code, you'd think the religions that worship him would also have an unchanging code. What we find, if we look, is that the moral compass of religions changes over time. Since God wouldn't chance it must be human society that changes.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

The human brain does what the human brain does. Can there be anything more valuable to a being that knows and creates than to have all the learning centers of his mind switched on?

A good Christian focuses on the journey and not the destination. Doing the right thing, the right way for the right reasons is its own reward. The destination takes care of itself.

O

Maybe you shouldn't be an atheist if you can't accept the logical consequence of only believing that you are only a material being.

you misunderstand bing - brain is physiology ...

Does Saint Ding believe his brain matter has eternal life?

 

[alang1216]

Actually it was penned by a humanist and his sources were appropriately cited. It's not just his opinion.

I've read some of his writing and can't say I'm a fan and I don't believe he was a humanist

“If humanism were right in declaring that man is born to be happy, he would not be born to die. Since his body is doomed to die, his task on earth evidently must be of a more spiritual nature. It cannot the unrestrained enjoyment of everyday life. It cannot be the search for the best ways to obtain material goods and then cheerfully get the most out of them. It has to be the fulfillment of a permanent, earnest duty so that one's life journey may become an experience of moral growth, so that one may leave life a better human being than one started it. It is imperative to review the table of widespread human values. Its present incorrectness is astounding. It is not possible that assessment of the President's performance be reduced to the question of how much money one makes or of unlimited availability of gasoline. Only voluntary, inspired self-restraint can raise man above the world stream of materialism.”​

― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

I'm sure you would protect your loved ones at your own expense. Like I said before, you may pretend you don't believe in universal truths but your sense of fairness says otherwise.

Universal in Western culture but not universal everywhere throughout history.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Since God wouldn't chance it must be human society that changes.

Change and change being the intent, I presume (oh noes!). That's a great example of arguing logically. Still waiting for ding to display some..

 

[Grumblenuts]

Change is akin to death and taxes. Conservatives stupidly fight it. Liberals embrace and roll with it. Next..

What are the four dimensions? Google AI says:

In physics, the four dimensions are length, width, height, and time. Einstein believed that to know where you are, you need to know what time it is.

Now listen up, children. Grumblenuts says horse patootie. Where you are according to whose clock? Relativity! Remember, Einstein?! Though time often serves as a convenient, alternative way (or "coordinate") for us to measure large distances within a given reference frame, it's never truly a "4th dimension." Not even a second one.

We may say A is C light years from B, where A and B represent points defined by spatial coordinates (e.g., 0, 0, 0 and i, j, k in a cartesian system) and where C is understood to be the instantaneous scalar distance between the two. In any case, either "space" itself or points in space may be fully defined by three such coordinates -or- time may serve the same purpose. One may use one or the other, not both at once.. unless.. and until.. motion is introduced. Movement changes everything. Speed, velocity, acceleration.. Now take a nap.