Man shot dead in robbery in Britain, criminals said they forgot to turn in their guns…sorry….

[Skylar]

Why then has gun crime gone DOWN since handguns were banned? Why does Britian have 1/4 our murder rate? If more guns mean less crime.....why did less guns mean less crime?

And you realize that the UK and US measure 'violent crime' very differently. With 'violent crime' as measured by the FBI being murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. While 'violent crime' in the UK includes crimes against the person,” including simple assaults, all robberies, and all sexual offenses.

With only 1 in 4 of the sexual offenses listed in British violent crime stats being forcible rapes. Where *all* sexual offenses listed in FBI violent crime states being forcible rapes.

It goes on as you look at what Britian is actually measuring. With only 1/2 of 'violent crime' in Britian involving any injury. In Britain, simple harassment would be considered a violent crime. Possessing a knife when commiting a crime is considered a violent crime. Not using the knife. Simply having it on you. Causing public alarm would be considered a violent crime.

Where violent crime in the US remains only murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.

Hmmmm....if they confiscated guns...why are gun crime and homicides up in Britain....they don't even have obama releasing felons, letting in drug gangs, and reducing gun crime prosecutions....

From Thursday, January 21, 2016......

Homicides in England and Wales up 14%

The police-recorded crime figures include a 9% rise in knife crime and a 4% rise in gun crime, which are thought to reflect a rise in gang violence largely in London and Manchester.

The rise in gun crime is the first recorded for eight years and includes a 10% rise in London.
The official statisticians say that a 36% rise in sexual offences, including the highest number of rapes since 2003 – at 33,341 – reflect a greater willingness of victims to come forward to report such crimes rather than a real surge in attacks.

If more guns equal less crime, why does Britian have fewer guns.....but a fraction of our murder and gun homicide? With 1/4 the murder and 1/60th the gun homicide?

How high would Britian's gun violence have to rise before it approached even half of what we have now?

And your solution is MORE guns? Why would they ever want to do that?

Britain confiscated their guns and only allow a few lucky people to have hunting shotguns.....and their gun murder rate remained the same, and their violence rate went sky high....

Hand gun were largely made illegal in 1997. Violence rates declined.

With 1/60th the gun violence deaths and 1/4 the murder rates that we have here.....why would they want more guns?

First...

Again....can you explain why gun murder in the United States has been going down as more Americans own and carry guns? in 2013 there were 320,000,000 guns in private hands....in 2014 there are now 357 million guns in private hands.....our gun murder rate has been going down steadily...as has our gun accident rate....


Please explain......

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

And here is the FBI table 8……it is a great table because it goes back4 years to show the rates of decrease….

2014 table…..

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

From 2014…..and I added 2011……

2006

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

2006 fbi table 8

Murder by firearm….

2006-- 10,225
2007 10,129
2008-- 9,528
2009-- 9,199
2010- 8,874
2011-- 8,653
2012-- 8,897
2013-- 8,454
2014-- 8,124

Again, the guns were confiscated in 1997. Why then are you starting in 2006?

 

[2aguy]

No....I would suggest that they allow people who don't use guns to commit crime to have access to guns to keep from being stabbed and beaten at the hands of their criminals.....Britain is far more violent than we are...and unless you think getting stabbed, yet living, is better than using a gun to actually stop the stabbing in the first place....I would recommend you need help....

Why then has gun crime gone DOWN since handguns were banned? Why does Britian have 1/4 our murder rate? If more guns mean less crime.....why did less guns mean less crime?

And you realize that the UK and US measure 'violent crime' very differently. With 'violent crime' as measured by the FBI being murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. While 'violent crime' in the UK includes crimes against the person,” including simple assaults, all robberies, and all sexual offenses.

With only 1 in 4 of the sexual offenses listed in British violent crime stats being forcible rapes. Where *all* sexual offenses listed in FBI violent crime states being forcible rapes.

It goes on as you look at what Britian is actually measuring. With only 1/2 of 'violent crime' in Britian involving any injury. In Britain, simple harassment would be considered a violent crime. Possessing a knife when commiting a crime is considered a violent crime. Not using the knife. Simply having it on you. Causing public alarm would be considered a violent crime.

Where violent crime in the US remains only murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.

Hmmmm....if they confiscated guns...why are gun crime and homicides up in Britain....they don't even have obama releasing felons, letting in drug gangs, and reducing gun crime prosecutions....

From Thursday, January 21, 2016......

Homicides in England and Wales up 14%

The police-recorded crime figures include a 9% rise in knife crime and a 4% rise in gun crime, which are thought to reflect a rise in gang violence largely in London and Manchester.

The rise in gun crime is the first recorded for eight years and includes a 10% rise in London.
The official statisticians say that a 36% rise in sexual offences, including the highest number of rapes since 2003 – at 33,341 – reflect a greater willingness of victims to come forward to report such crimes rather than a real surge in attacks.

If more guns equal less crime, why does Britian have fewer guns.....but a fraction of our murder and gun homicide? With 1/4 the murder and 1/60th the gun homicide?

How high would Britian's gun violence have to rise before it approached even half of what we have now?

And your solution is MORE guns? Why would they ever want to do that?

And did you fail to read this post.......


Homicides in England and Wales up 14%

The police-recorded crime figures include a 9% rise in knife crime and a 4% rise in gun crime, which are thought to reflect a rise in gang violence largely in London and Manchester.

The rise in gun crime is the first recorded for eight years and includes a 10% rise in London.
The official statisticians say that a 36% rise in sexual offences, including the highest number of rapes since 2003 – at 33,341 – reflect a greater willingness of victims to come forward to report such crimes rather than a real surge in attacks.

How is that possible......considering they confiscated their guns?

Did you miss my reply?

How high would their murder and gun homicide rates have to rise before they were even half of what we have here?

Just give me a round number. And then tell me why they would want to be more like us.

And you failed to read my posts....

Gun crime in Britain was low long before they confiscated guns........and after the 1997 confiscation their gun violence rate spiked....then went back down to where it was before they confiscated their guns.

And as to how high they would need to rise...who cares? Their criminals have access to guns but don't use them to commit murder at the same level our criminals do...that is a difference in sub culture, not access to guns.

Britain did not have the gun violence levels we did.....they have a homogenous society, and a long history of respect for central authority....it affects their criminals....

And again.....please explain how our gun murder rate...specifically our gun murder rate, and our over all crime rate went down....as more Americans bought, owned and actually carry guns....please explain.....I know you want to ignore that....but try real hard....

 

[Skylar]

Why then has gun crime gone DOWN since handguns were banned? Why does Britian have 1/4 our murder rate? If more guns mean less crime.....why did less guns mean less crime?

And you realize that the UK and US measure 'violent crime' very differently. With 'violent crime' as measured by the FBI being murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. While 'violent crime' in the UK includes crimes against the person,” including simple assaults, all robberies, and all sexual offenses.

With only 1 in 4 of the sexual offenses listed in British violent crime stats being forcible rapes. Where *all* sexual offenses listed in FBI violent crime states being forcible rapes.

It goes on as you look at what Britian is actually measuring. With only 1/2 of 'violent crime' in Britian involving any injury. In Britain, simple harassment would be considered a violent crime. Possessing a knife when commiting a crime is considered a violent crime. Not using the knife. Simply having it on you. Causing public alarm would be considered a violent crime.

Where violent crime in the US remains only murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.

Hmmmm....if they confiscated guns...why are gun crime and homicides up in Britain....they don't even have obama releasing felons, letting in drug gangs, and reducing gun crime prosecutions....

From Thursday, January 21, 2016......

Homicides in England and Wales up 14%

The police-recorded crime figures include a 9% rise in knife crime and a 4% rise in gun crime, which are thought to reflect a rise in gang violence largely in London and Manchester.

The rise in gun crime is the first recorded for eight years and includes a 10% rise in London.
The official statisticians say that a 36% rise in sexual offences, including the highest number of rapes since 2003 – at 33,341 – reflect a greater willingness of victims to come forward to report such crimes rather than a real surge in attacks.

If more guns equal less crime, why does Britian have fewer guns.....but a fraction of our murder and gun homicide? With 1/4 the murder and 1/60th the gun homicide?

How high would Britian's gun violence have to rise before it approached even half of what we have now?

And your solution is MORE guns? Why would they ever want to do that?

And did you fail to read this post.......


Homicides in England and Wales up 14%

The police-recorded crime figures include a 9% rise in knife crime and a 4% rise in gun crime, which are thought to reflect a rise in gang violence largely in London and Manchester.

The rise in gun crime is the first recorded for eight years and includes a 10% rise in London.
The official statisticians say that a 36% rise in sexual offences, including the highest number of rapes since 2003 – at 33,341 – reflect a greater willingness of victims to come forward to report such crimes rather than a real surge in attacks.

How is that possible......considering they confiscated their guns?

Did you miss my reply?

How high would their murder and gun homicide rates have to rise before they were even half of what we have here?

Just give me a round number. And then tell me why they would want to be more like us.

And you failed to read my posts....

Gun crime in Britain was low long before they confiscated guns........and after the 1997 confiscation their gun violence rate spiked....then went back down to where it was before they confiscated their guns.

If the spike started after guns were confiscated....show us the crime rates from 1997. When guns were actually confiscated. You insist on showing us from 2006.

Why the nearly 10 year gap between your 'cause' and your 'effect'?

 

[2aguy]

Hmmmm....if they confiscated guns...why are gun crime and homicides up in Britain....they don't even have obama releasing felons, letting in drug gangs, and reducing gun crime prosecutions....

From Thursday, January 21, 2016......

Homicides in England and Wales up 14%

The police-recorded crime figures include a 9% rise in knife crime and a 4% rise in gun crime, which are thought to reflect a rise in gang violence largely in London and Manchester.

The rise in gun crime is the first recorded for eight years and includes a 10% rise in London.
The official statisticians say that a 36% rise in sexual offences, including the highest number of rapes since 2003 – at 33,341 – reflect a greater willingness of victims to come forward to report such crimes rather than a real surge in attacks.

If more guns equal less crime, why does Britian have fewer guns.....but a fraction of our murder and gun homicide? With 1/4 the murder and 1/60th the gun homicide?

How high would Britian's gun violence have to rise before it approached even half of what we have now?

And your solution is MORE guns? Why would they ever want to do that?

Britain confiscated their guns and only allow a few lucky people to have hunting shotguns.....and their gun murder rate remained the same, and their violence rate went sky high....

Hand gun were largely made illegal in 1997. Violence rates declined.

With 1/60th the gun violence deaths and 1/4 the murder rates that we have here.....why would they want more guns?

First...

Again....can you explain why gun murder in the United States has been going down as more Americans own and carry guns? in 2013 there were 320,000,000 guns in private hands....in 2014 there are now 357 million guns in private hands.....our gun murder rate has been going down steadily...as has our gun accident rate....


Please explain......

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

And here is the FBI table 8……it is a great table because it goes back4 years to show the rates of decrease….

2014 table…..

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

From 2014…..and I added 2011……

2006

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

2006 fbi table 8

Murder by firearm….

2006-- 10,225
2007 10,129
2008-- 9,528
2009-- 9,199
2010- 8,874
2011-- 8,653
2012-- 8,897
2013-- 8,454
2014-- 8,124

Again, the guns were confiscated in 1997. Why then are you starting in 2006?

Nope...I don't have to start in 2006...........

After shooting tragedies, Britain went after guns

After Britain’s sweeping handgun ban was imposed in 1997, for instance, tens of thousands of weapons were collected from legal owners in exchange for fair market value, cutting off supplies of stolen handguns that ended up in criminal hands and largely forbidding their sale by gun dealers in Britain.

Nevertheless, statistics show that gun violence in Britain increased for the next several years.

And now it has returned to the same level as before 1997...and as of 2015...it has gone up again...

 

[2aguy]

Hmmmm....if they confiscated guns...why are gun crime and homicides up in Britain....they don't even have obama releasing felons, letting in drug gangs, and reducing gun crime prosecutions....

From Thursday, January 21, 2016......

Homicides in England and Wales up 14%

The police-recorded crime figures include a 9% rise in knife crime and a 4% rise in gun crime, which are thought to reflect a rise in gang violence largely in London and Manchester.

The rise in gun crime is the first recorded for eight years and includes a 10% rise in London.
The official statisticians say that a 36% rise in sexual offences, including the highest number of rapes since 2003 – at 33,341 – reflect a greater willingness of victims to come forward to report such crimes rather than a real surge in attacks.

If more guns equal less crime, why does Britian have fewer guns.....but a fraction of our murder and gun homicide? With 1/4 the murder and 1/60th the gun homicide?

How high would Britian's gun violence have to rise before it approached even half of what we have now?

And your solution is MORE guns? Why would they ever want to do that?

And did you fail to read this post.......


Homicides in England and Wales up 14%

The police-recorded crime figures include a 9% rise in knife crime and a 4% rise in gun crime, which are thought to reflect a rise in gang violence largely in London and Manchester.

The rise in gun crime is the first recorded for eight years and includes a 10% rise in London.
The official statisticians say that a 36% rise in sexual offences, including the highest number of rapes since 2003 – at 33,341 – reflect a greater willingness of victims to come forward to report such crimes rather than a real surge in attacks.

How is that possible......considering they confiscated their guns?

Did you miss my reply?

How high would their murder and gun homicide rates have to rise before they were even half of what we have here?

Just give me a round number. And then tell me why they would want to be more like us.

And you failed to read my posts....

Gun crime in Britain was low long before they confiscated guns........and after the 1997 confiscation their gun violence rate spiked....then went back down to where it was before they confiscated their guns.

If the spike started after guns were confiscated....show us the crime rates from 1997. When guns were actually confiscated. You insist on showing us from 2006.

Why the nearly 10 year gap between your 'cause' and your 'effect'?

Oh....I see.......the FBI is in the United States......those are our stats, not Britains stats.....our gun murder rate went down...please...read more closely......

Like any lefty, you confused me.....

I start our list at 2006 because I haven't bothered to go back farther....our gun murder rate started going down as more people began to own and carry guns about the early 1990s...when the concealed carry movement really took off......

 

[Skylar]

If more guns equal less crime, why does Britian have fewer guns.....but a fraction of our murder and gun homicide? With 1/4 the murder and 1/60th the gun homicide?

How high would Britian's gun violence have to rise before it approached even half of what we have now?

And your solution is MORE guns? Why would they ever want to do that?

Britain confiscated their guns and only allow a few lucky people to have hunting shotguns.....and their gun murder rate remained the same, and their violence rate went sky high....

Hand gun were largely made illegal in 1997. Violence rates declined.

With 1/60th the gun violence deaths and 1/4 the murder rates that we have here.....why would they want more guns?

First...

Again....can you explain why gun murder in the United States has been going down as more Americans own and carry guns? in 2013 there were 320,000,000 guns in private hands....in 2014 there are now 357 million guns in private hands.....our gun murder rate has been going down steadily...as has our gun accident rate....


Please explain......

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

And here is the FBI table 8……it is a great table because it goes back4 years to show the rates of decrease….

2014 table…..

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

From 2014…..and I added 2011……

2006

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

2006 fbi table 8

Murder by firearm….

2006-- 10,225
2007 10,129
2008-- 9,528
2009-- 9,199
2010- 8,874
2011-- 8,653
2012-- 8,897
2013-- 8,454
2014-- 8,124

Again, the guns were confiscated in 1997. Why then are you starting in 2006?

Nope...I don't have to start in 2006...........

After shooting tragedies, Britain went after guns

After Britain’s sweeping handgun ban was imposed in 1997, for instance, tens of thousands of weapons were collected from legal owners in exchange for fair market value, cutting off supplies of stolen handguns that ended up in criminal hands and largely forbidding their sale by gun dealers in Britain.

Nevertheless, statistics show that gun violence in Britain increased for the next several years.

And now it has returned to the same level as before 1997...and as of 2015...it has gone up again...

You said *crime* rates exploded. Now you've been winnowed to 'gun violence'. Which you've already admitted is at ridiculously low levels. About 1/60th ours.

So when you said 'crime rates', what you actually mean was gun violence rates?

 

[2aguy]

Britain confiscated their guns and only allow a few lucky people to have hunting shotguns.....and their gun murder rate remained the same, and their violence rate went sky high....

Hand gun were largely made illegal in 1997. Violence rates declined.

With 1/60th the gun violence deaths and 1/4 the murder rates that we have here.....why would they want more guns?

First...

Again....can you explain why gun murder in the United States has been going down as more Americans own and carry guns? in 2013 there were 320,000,000 guns in private hands....in 2014 there are now 357 million guns in private hands.....our gun murder rate has been going down steadily...as has our gun accident rate....


Please explain......

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

And here is the FBI table 8……it is a great table because it goes back4 years to show the rates of decrease….

2014 table…..

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

From 2014…..and I added 2011……

2006

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

2006 fbi table 8

Murder by firearm….

2006-- 10,225
2007 10,129
2008-- 9,528
2009-- 9,199
2010- 8,874
2011-- 8,653
2012-- 8,897
2013-- 8,454
2014-- 8,124

Again, the guns were confiscated in 1997. Why then are you starting in 2006?

Nope...I don't have to start in 2006...........

After shooting tragedies, Britain went after guns

After Britain’s sweeping handgun ban was imposed in 1997, for instance, tens of thousands of weapons were collected from legal owners in exchange for fair market value, cutting off supplies of stolen handguns that ended up in criminal hands and largely forbidding their sale by gun dealers in Britain.

Nevertheless, statistics show that gun violence in Britain increased for the next several years.

And now it has returned to the same level as before 1997...and as of 2015...it has gone up again...

You said *crime* rates exploded. Now you've been winnowed to 'gun violence'. Which you've already admitted is at ridiculously low levels. About 1/60th ours.

So when you said 'crime rates', what you actually mean was gun violence rates?

Nope...all categories of crime in Britain went up........it is now more violent than the United States.....

Britain had low gun murder rates before they confiscated their guns....confiscating guns from normal British citizens did nothing for their murder rate...but now.....the criminals are starting to use guns more...

As I showed in the stats....their homicide rate is up and their gun crime rate is up 4%...

 

[Skylar]

If more guns equal less crime, why does Britian have fewer guns.....but a fraction of our murder and gun homicide? With 1/4 the murder and 1/60th the gun homicide?

How high would Britian's gun violence have to rise before it approached even half of what we have now?

And your solution is MORE guns? Why would they ever want to do that?

And did you fail to read this post.......


Homicides in England and Wales up 14%

The police-recorded crime figures include a 9% rise in knife crime and a 4% rise in gun crime, which are thought to reflect a rise in gang violence largely in London and Manchester.

The rise in gun crime is the first recorded for eight years and includes a 10% rise in London.
The official statisticians say that a 36% rise in sexual offences, including the highest number of rapes since 2003 – at 33,341 – reflect a greater willingness of victims to come forward to report such crimes rather than a real surge in attacks.

How is that possible......considering they confiscated their guns?

Did you miss my reply?

How high would their murder and gun homicide rates have to rise before they were even half of what we have here?

Just give me a round number. And then tell me why they would want to be more like us.

And you failed to read my posts....

Gun crime in Britain was low long before they confiscated guns........and after the 1997 confiscation their gun violence rate spiked....then went back down to where it was before they confiscated their guns.

If the spike started after guns were confiscated....show us the crime rates from 1997. When guns were actually confiscated. You insist on showing us from 2006.

Why the nearly 10 year gap between your 'cause' and your 'effect'?

Oh....I see.......the FBI is in the United States......those are our stats, not Britains stats.....our gun murder rate went down...please...read more closely......

More specifically, they measure different things. Britian includes all 'sexual offenses'. Which include everything from harrassment to forcible rape. The FBI includes only forcible rape. With only 1/4 of the 'sexual offenses' included in Britians violent crime stats being forcible rapes.

Wouldn't any rational person consider that relevant?

 

[Skylar]

Hand gun were largely made illegal in 1997. Violence rates declined.

With 1/60th the gun violence deaths and 1/4 the murder rates that we have here.....why would they want more guns?

First...

Again....can you explain why gun murder in the United States has been going down as more Americans own and carry guns? in 2013 there were 320,000,000 guns in private hands....in 2014 there are now 357 million guns in private hands.....our gun murder rate has been going down steadily...as has our gun accident rate....


Please explain......

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

And here is the FBI table 8……it is a great table because it goes back4 years to show the rates of decrease….

2014 table…..

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

From 2014…..and I added 2011……

2006

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

2006 fbi table 8

Murder by firearm….

2006-- 10,225
2007 10,129
2008-- 9,528
2009-- 9,199
2010- 8,874
2011-- 8,653
2012-- 8,897
2013-- 8,454
2014-- 8,124

Again, the guns were confiscated in 1997. Why then are you starting in 2006?

Nope...I don't have to start in 2006...........

After shooting tragedies, Britain went after guns

After Britain’s sweeping handgun ban was imposed in 1997, for instance, tens of thousands of weapons were collected from legal owners in exchange for fair market value, cutting off supplies of stolen handguns that ended up in criminal hands and largely forbidding their sale by gun dealers in Britain.

Nevertheless, statistics show that gun violence in Britain increased for the next several years.

And now it has returned to the same level as before 1997...and as of 2015...it has gone up again...

You said *crime* rates exploded. Now you've been winnowed to 'gun violence'. Which you've already admitted is at ridiculously low levels. About 1/60th ours.

So when you said 'crime rates', what you actually mean was gun violence rates?

Nope...all categories of crime in Britain went up........it is now more violent than the United States.....

Then show me all categories of crime in Britain going up from 1997. As your stats start in 2006. Almost a decade later.

 

[2aguy]

And did you fail to read this post.......


Homicides in England and Wales up 14%

The police-recorded crime figures include a 9% rise in knife crime and a 4% rise in gun crime, which are thought to reflect a rise in gang violence largely in London and Manchester.

The rise in gun crime is the first recorded for eight years and includes a 10% rise in London.
The official statisticians say that a 36% rise in sexual offences, including the highest number of rapes since 2003 – at 33,341 – reflect a greater willingness of victims to come forward to report such crimes rather than a real surge in attacks.

How is that possible......considering they confiscated their guns?

Did you miss my reply?

How high would their murder and gun homicide rates have to rise before they were even half of what we have here?

Just give me a round number. And then tell me why they would want to be more like us.

And you failed to read my posts....

Gun crime in Britain was low long before they confiscated guns........and after the 1997 confiscation their gun violence rate spiked....then went back down to where it was before they confiscated their guns.

If the spike started after guns were confiscated....show us the crime rates from 1997. When guns were actually confiscated. You insist on showing us from 2006.

Why the nearly 10 year gap between your 'cause' and your 'effect'?

Oh....I see.......the FBI is in the United States......those are our stats, not Britains stats.....our gun murder rate went down...please...read more closely......

More specifically, they measure different things. Britian includes all 'sexual offenses'. Which include everything from harrassment to forcible rape. The FBI includes only forcible rape. With only 1/4 of the 'sexual offenses' included in Britians violent crime stats being forcible rapes.

Wouldn't any rational person consider that relevant?

And it is taken into account........but keep trying to hide the truth.....

Please explain how our gun murder rate and our crime rate has gone down as more Americans own and carry guns at the same time Britain confiscated their guns.....

 

[2aguy]

First...

Again....can you explain why gun murder in the United States has been going down as more Americans own and carry guns? in 2013 there were 320,000,000 guns in private hands....in 2014 there are now 357 million guns in private hands.....our gun murder rate has been going down steadily...as has our gun accident rate....


Please explain......

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

And here is the FBI table 8……it is a great table because it goes back4 years to show the rates of decrease….

2014 table…..

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

From 2014…..and I added 2011……

2006

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

2006 fbi table 8

Murder by firearm….

2006-- 10,225
2007 10,129
2008-- 9,528
2009-- 9,199
2010- 8,874
2011-- 8,653
2012-- 8,897
2013-- 8,454
2014-- 8,124

Again, the guns were confiscated in 1997. Why then are you starting in 2006?

Nope...I don't have to start in 2006...........

After shooting tragedies, Britain went after guns

After Britain’s sweeping handgun ban was imposed in 1997, for instance, tens of thousands of weapons were collected from legal owners in exchange for fair market value, cutting off supplies of stolen handguns that ended up in criminal hands and largely forbidding their sale by gun dealers in Britain.

Nevertheless, statistics show that gun violence in Britain increased for the next several years.

And now it has returned to the same level as before 1997...and as of 2015...it has gone up again...

You said *crime* rates exploded. Now you've been winnowed to 'gun violence'. Which you've already admitted is at ridiculously low levels. About 1/60th ours.

So when you said 'crime rates', what you actually mean was gun violence rates?

Nope...all categories of crime in Britain went up........it is now more violent than the United States.....

Then show me all categories of crime in Britain going up from 1997. As your stats start in 2006. Almost a decade later.

Those are our stats, not Britains stats.....and those are our stats for gun murder.....as you can see and are obviously trying to hide from....our gun murder rate went down as more Americans bought and own and carry guns.

Of course the Brits banned guns and their violent crime rate went up......their gun murder rate spiked, as I posted, and then went back to the same level as before....essentially no change after confiscating their guns.

 

[Skylar]

Did you miss my reply?

How high would their murder and gun homicide rates have to rise before they were even half of what we have here?

Just give me a round number. And then tell me why they would want to be more like us.

And you failed to read my posts....

Gun crime in Britain was low long before they confiscated guns........and after the 1997 confiscation their gun violence rate spiked....then went back down to where it was before they confiscated their guns.

If the spike started after guns were confiscated....show us the crime rates from 1997. When guns were actually confiscated. You insist on showing us from 2006.

Why the nearly 10 year gap between your 'cause' and your 'effect'?

Oh....I see.......the FBI is in the United States......those are our stats, not Britains stats.....our gun murder rate went down...please...read more closely......

More specifically, they measure different things. Britian includes all 'sexual offenses'. Which include everything from harrassment to forcible rape. The FBI includes only forcible rape. With only 1/4 of the 'sexual offenses' included in Britians violent crime stats being forcible rapes.

Wouldn't any rational person consider that relevant?

And it is taken into account........but keep trying to hide the truth.....

Its 'taken into account, huh'? Show us, don't tell us.

 

[Skylar]

Again, the guns were confiscated in 1997. Why then are you starting in 2006?

Nope...I don't have to start in 2006...........

After shooting tragedies, Britain went after guns

After Britain’s sweeping handgun ban was imposed in 1997, for instance, tens of thousands of weapons were collected from legal owners in exchange for fair market value, cutting off supplies of stolen handguns that ended up in criminal hands and largely forbidding their sale by gun dealers in Britain.

Nevertheless, statistics show that gun violence in Britain increased for the next several years.

And now it has returned to the same level as before 1997...and as of 2015...it has gone up again...

You said *crime* rates exploded. Now you've been winnowed to 'gun violence'. Which you've already admitted is at ridiculously low levels. About 1/60th ours.

So when you said 'crime rates', what you actually mean was gun violence rates?

Nope...all categories of crime in Britain went up........it is now more violent than the United States.....

Then show me all categories of crime in Britain going up from 1997. As your stats start in 2006. Almost a decade later.

Those are our stats, not Britains stats.....and those are our stats for gun murder.....as you can see and are obviously trying to hide from....our gun murder rate went down as more Americans bought and own and carry guns.

Its a comparison of their rates of gun murders to ours. Britian's gun violence homicides are 1/60th ours.

How high would Britian's gun homicide rate have to climb before it was even half ours. I'll simplify it for you. How many orders of magnitude would they have to increase their gun homicide rates to match ours?

And why would they ever, ever want to?

 

[2aguy]

Nope...I don't have to start in 2006...........

After shooting tragedies, Britain went after guns

After Britain’s sweeping handgun ban was imposed in 1997, for instance, tens of thousands of weapons were collected from legal owners in exchange for fair market value, cutting off supplies of stolen handguns that ended up in criminal hands and largely forbidding their sale by gun dealers in Britain.

Nevertheless, statistics show that gun violence in Britain increased for the next several years.

And now it has returned to the same level as before 1997...and as of 2015...it has gone up again...

You said *crime* rates exploded. Now you've been winnowed to 'gun violence'. Which you've already admitted is at ridiculously low levels. About 1/60th ours.

So when you said 'crime rates', what you actually mean was gun violence rates?

Nope...all categories of crime in Britain went up........it is now more violent than the United States.....

Then show me all categories of crime in Britain going up from 1997. As your stats start in 2006. Almost a decade later.

Those are our stats, not Britains stats.....and those are our stats for gun murder.....as you can see and are obviously trying to hide from....our gun murder rate went down as more Americans bought and own and carry guns.

Its a comparison of their rates of gun murders to ours. Britian's gun violence homicides are 1/60th ours.

How high would Britian's gun homicide rate have to climb before it was even half ours. I'll simplify it for you. How many orders of magnitude would they have to increase their gun homicide rates to match ours?

And why would they ever, ever want to?

And that has no bearing on the discussion....

Their gun murder rate was low in comparison to ours before they confiscated their guns. AFter they confiscated their guns their gun crime rate went up.....it spiked. Then it went back down to the level it was at before they confiscated their guns....thereby making the whole exercise of disarming normal British citizens, the people not committing crimes with guns...pointless.....

And why would they want to have guns like us...to stop rapes, stabbings and beatings that are at a rate far higher than we have in the United States.....Britain is more violent than the United States.....

 

[2aguy]

Nope...I don't have to start in 2006...........

After shooting tragedies, Britain went after guns

After Britain’s sweeping handgun ban was imposed in 1997, for instance, tens of thousands of weapons were collected from legal owners in exchange for fair market value, cutting off supplies of stolen handguns that ended up in criminal hands and largely forbidding their sale by gun dealers in Britain.

Nevertheless, statistics show that gun violence in Britain increased for the next several years.

And now it has returned to the same level as before 1997...and as of 2015...it has gone up again...

You said *crime* rates exploded. Now you've been winnowed to 'gun violence'. Which you've already admitted is at ridiculously low levels. About 1/60th ours.

So when you said 'crime rates', what you actually mean was gun violence rates?

Nope...all categories of crime in Britain went up........it is now more violent than the United States.....

Then show me all categories of crime in Britain going up from 1997. As your stats start in 2006. Almost a decade later.

Those are our stats, not Britains stats.....and those are our stats for gun murder.....as you can see and are obviously trying to hide from....our gun murder rate went down as more Americans bought and own and carry guns.

Its a comparison of their rates of gun murders to ours. Britian's gun violence homicides are 1/60th ours.

How high would Britian's gun homicide rate have to climb before it was even half ours. I'll simplify it for you. How many orders of magnitude would they have to increase their gun homicide rates to match ours?

And why would they ever, ever want to?

Yes.....you don't want to actually answer the real question....here it is again...

Again....can you explain why gun murder in the United States has been going down as more Americans own and carry guns? in 2013 there were 320,000,000 guns in private hands....in 2014 there are now 357 million guns in private hands.....our gun murder rate has been going down steadily...as has our gun accident rate....


Please explain......

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

And here is the FBI table 8……it is a great table because it goes back4 years to show the rates of decrease….

2014 table…..

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

From 2014…..and I added 2011……

2006

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

2006 fbi table 8

Murder by firearm….

2006-- 10,225
2007 10,129
2008-- 9,528
2009-- 9,199
2010- 8,874
2011-- 8,653
2012-- 8,897
2013-- 8,454
2014-- 8,124

 

[Skylar]

You said *crime* rates exploded. Now you've been winnowed to 'gun violence'. Which you've already admitted is at ridiculously low levels. About 1/60th ours.

So when you said 'crime rates', what you actually mean was gun violence rates?

Nope...all categories of crime in Britain went up........it is now more violent than the United States.....

Then show me all categories of crime in Britain going up from 1997. As your stats start in 2006. Almost a decade later.

Those are our stats, not Britains stats.....and those are our stats for gun murder.....as you can see and are obviously trying to hide from....our gun murder rate went down as more Americans bought and own and carry guns.

Its a comparison of their rates of gun murders to ours. Britian's gun violence homicides are 1/60th ours.

How high would Britian's gun homicide rate have to climb before it was even half ours. I'll simplify it for you. How many orders of magnitude would they have to increase their gun homicide rates to match ours?

And why would they ever, ever want to?

Yes.....you don't want to actually answer the real question....here it is again...

Again....can you explain why gun murder in the United States has been going down as more Americans own and carry guns? in 2013 there were 320,000,000 guns in private hands....in 2014 there are now 357 million guns in private hands.....our gun murder rate has been going down steadily...as has our gun accident rate....


Please explain......

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

And here is the FBI table 8……it is a great table because it goes back4 years to show the rates of decrease….

2014 table…..

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

From 2014…..and I added 2011……

2006

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

2006 fbi table 8

Murder by firearm….

2006-- 10,225
2007 10,129
2008-- 9,528
2009-- 9,199
2010- 8,874
2011-- 8,653
2012-- 8,897
2013-- 8,454
2014-- 8,124

And here we go full circle. The guns were confiscated in 1997. Your stats start in 2006.

Why the nearly 10 year gap between your 'cause' and your 'effect'.

 

[2aguy]

Nope...all categories of crime in Britain went up........it is now more violent than the United States.....

Then show me all categories of crime in Britain going up from 1997. As your stats start in 2006. Almost a decade later.

Those are our stats, not Britains stats.....and those are our stats for gun murder.....as you can see and are obviously trying to hide from....our gun murder rate went down as more Americans bought and own and carry guns.

Its a comparison of their rates of gun murders to ours. Britian's gun violence homicides are 1/60th ours.

How high would Britian's gun homicide rate have to climb before it was even half ours. I'll simplify it for you. How many orders of magnitude would they have to increase their gun homicide rates to match ours?

And why would they ever, ever want to?

Yes.....you don't want to actually answer the real question....here it is again...

Again....can you explain why gun murder in the United States has been going down as more Americans own and carry guns? in 2013 there were 320,000,000 guns in private hands....in 2014 there are now 357 million guns in private hands.....our gun murder rate has been going down steadily...as has our gun accident rate....


Please explain......

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

And here is the FBI table 8……it is a great table because it goes back4 years to show the rates of decrease….

2014 table…..

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

From 2014…..and I added 2011……

2006

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

2006 fbi table 8

Murder by firearm….

2006-- 10,225
2007 10,129
2008-- 9,528
2009-- 9,199
2010- 8,874
2011-- 8,653
2012-- 8,897
2013-- 8,454
2014-- 8,124

And here we go full circle. The guns were confiscated in 1997. Your stats start in 2006.

Why the nearly 10 year gap between your 'cause' and your 'effect'.

Okay...twit. My stats in 2006 are from the United States and point out how our gun crime rate has been steadily declining.....


If you insist I will go to 1997........this is what happens when you have a discussion with a lefty...they become children when you show they are wrong.

 

[2aguy]

Here you go....1996-2000......

Federal Bureau of Investigation - Uniform Crime Reports - 2000

gun murder rate 1997 -2000


1997..... 10,729
1998..... 9,257
1999..... 8,480
2000..... 8,493

I will get the rest.....now...please explain why it is that gun murder was going down in the U.S. as more Americans bought, owned and actually carried guns for self defense.....?

 

[2aguy]

And here we go.....to 1997...

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

And here is the FBI table 8……it is a great table because it goes back4 years to show the rates of decrease….

FBI Table 2004

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8 - Crime in the United States 2008

2014 table…..

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

From 2014…..and I added 2011……

2006

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8 and

2006 fbi table 8

Murder by firearm….

Federal Bureau of Investigation - Uniform Crime Reports - 2000

gun murder rate 1997 -2000


1997..... 10,729
1998..... 9,257
1999..... 8,480
2000..... 8,493
2001..... 8,719
2002... 9,369
2003.... 9,638
2004..... 9,385
2005.... 10,158
2006.... 10,225
2007 10,129
2008-- 9,528
2009-- 9,199
2010- 8,874
2011-- 8,653
2012-- 8,897
2013-- 8,454
2014-- 8,124

Explain how our gun murder rate is going down as more Americans....13 million Americans, now carry guns for self defense....