Man shot dead in robbery in Britain, criminals said they forgot to turn in their guns…sorry….

The UK's gun homicide rate is 0.06 per 100,000. Compared to the US with 3.55.

That's 1/60th our gun homicide rate. With one quarter our murder rate.

And your suggestion...is they become more like us? Why would they want to do that?


No....I would suggest that they allow people who don't use guns to commit crime to have access to guns to keep from being stabbed and beaten at the hands of their criminals.....Britain is far more violent than we are...and unless you think getting stabbed, yet living, is better than using a gun to actually stop the stabbing in the first place....I would recommend you need help....

Why then has gun crime gone DOWN since handguns were banned? Why does Britian have 1/4 our murder rate? If more guns mean less crime.....why did less guns mean less crime?

And you realize that the UK and US measure 'violent crime' very differently. With 'violent crime' as measured by the FBI being murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. While 'violent crime' in the UK includes crimes against the person,” including simple assaults, all robberies, and all sexual offenses.

With only 1 in 4 of the sexual offenses listed in British violent crime stats being forcible rapes. Where *all* sexual offenses listed in FBI violent crime states being forcible rapes.

It goes on as you look at what Britian is actually measuring. With only 1/2 of 'violent crime' in Britian involving any injury. In Britain, simple harassment would be considered a violent crime. Possessing a knife when commiting a crime is considered a violent crime. Not using the knife. Simply having it on you. Causing public alarm would be considered a violent crime.

Where violent crime in the US remains only murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.


Gun crime did not go down....it spiked after the confiscation then returned to the level it was at before the confiscation....

Britain had 1/4 of our murder rate before they confiscated their guns.....their criminals murder each other and others less often...a culture difference between their criminal sub culture and ours....

Why then has gun crime gone DOWN since handguns were banned? Why does Britian have 1/4 our murder rate? If more guns mean less crime.....why did less guns mean less crime?

Can you explain why our gun crime has gone down as more Americans not only own guns but actually carry them? And less guns did not mean less crime in Britain.....Britain is 2x as violent as the United States and their gun crime level stayed the same as before the confiscation....

They disarmed normal gun owners, the people who didn't commit gun crimes in the first place, and their gun crime rate first spiked, then settled to the original level....they got nothing for their confiscation.......except more victims of stabbings and beatings...and Hot Burglaries....
 
And that's just what I could find without a few minutes checking. Shall we look up road rage incidents with guns? How about murder suicides with guns? Domestic violence with guns? The murder of children with guns?



I hate to tell you this sky. But those gun tragedies you listed. they dont mean much to a person who is consumed with the fear that without a gun, they are sure to be the victum of violent crime.

I wish all those unnecessay deaths did mean something to a gun nutter. But they dont. Even when one of their own kind does something stupid with a gun its cool.

think of the gun shop shooting recently.
there was no problem there. Well except for the gun store owner and son getting killed.

But hey, at least they got to shoot someone before they died. All is well.
 
Cops: S.C. toddler finds gun; shoots grandmother in back

Cops: South Carolina toddler finds gun; shoots grandmother in back

Idaho woman shot dead by two-year-old son was nuclear scientist

Idaho woman shot dead by two-year-old son was successful nuclear scientist

Toddler who fatally shot himself ID'd

Toddler who fatally shot himself ID'd

Tragedy as boy, 3, dies after shooting himself in the head with loaded pistol he found in a closet

Three-year-old boy dies after shooting himself in the head with pistol

Toddler may have accidentally shot and killed his father, Alabama authorities say

Toddler may have accidentally shot and killed his father, Alabama authorities say


Toddler Wounds Both Parents With 1 Shot From Handgun

Toddler Wounds Both Parents With 1 Shot From Handgun

And that's just what I could find without a few minutes checking. Shall we look up road rage incidents with guns? How about murder suicides with guns? Domestic violence with guns? The murder of children with guns?

Again, if anecdotal evidence is valid, its just as valid for toddler's killing people as it would be for anything you've posted. If not, why not?


You should know the answer before you ask the question......

In a country of over 320 million people in 2013....how many fatal gun accidents were there...... 505, in a country with over 320 million guns at the time...

Do you understand how small a number that it?

How many children were killed by fatal gun accidents in 2013.... 69. How many children are there in the United States.... 74.2 million...

Do you understand how small a number that is compared to other ways of accidentally dying for children....?

Domestic violence, murder suicide....how about we look at total murders for 2014..... 8,124. How many defensive gun uses each year compared to that....1,500,000 according to bill clinton and barak obama...

8,124 gun murders, mostly by career criminals murderingt other criminals.... vs. Normal gun owners using guns to stop violent crime... 1,500,000

8,124 vs. 1,500,000

Can you tell which number is bigger...?

The facts, the truth and reality do not support any of your beliefs on this issue.....

here is a more complete breakdown....to spare you posting more individual news items...

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

Here are the stats on some common types of death....it would be better to start a crusade to teach people how to walk upright...and save them from falling deaths...you would save more lives.....

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

guns, drowning and poisoning....

If you cared about people....you would push to ban the following...


http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

Cars, Accidental deaths 2013......35,369

Poisons...accidental deaths 2013....38,851

Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013...29,001

gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013...30,208
Accidental drowning.....3,391
Accidental exposure to smoke, fire and flames.....2,760

Accidental gun deaths 2013......505

Accidental gun deaths of children under 14 in 2013....

Under 1 year old: 3

1-4 years old: 27

5-14 years old: 39

Total: 69 ( in a country of 320 million people)

Gun Suicide: 21,175

Non gun suicide: 19,974


2012...

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf

Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...

2010...606
2011...591
2012...548
2013...505

So...accidental gun deaths have been coming down as more people own and carry guns for self defense....now 12.8 million people actually carry guns for self defense......on their person, and the accidental gun death rate is going down, not up....
 
Cops: S.C. toddler finds gun; shoots grandmother in back

Cops: South Carolina toddler finds gun; shoots grandmother in back

Idaho woman shot dead by two-year-old son was nuclear scientist

Idaho woman shot dead by two-year-old son was successful nuclear scientist

Toddler who fatally shot himself ID'd

Toddler who fatally shot himself ID'd

Tragedy as boy, 3, dies after shooting himself in the head with loaded pistol he found in a closet

Three-year-old boy dies after shooting himself in the head with pistol

Toddler may have accidentally shot and killed his father, Alabama authorities say

Toddler may have accidentally shot and killed his father, Alabama authorities say


Toddler Wounds Both Parents With 1 Shot From Handgun

Toddler Wounds Both Parents With 1 Shot From Handgun

And that's just what I could find without a few minutes checking. Shall we look up road rage incidents with guns? How about murder suicides with guns? Domestic violence with guns? The murder of children with guns?

Again, if anecdotal evidence is valid, its just as valid for toddler's killing people as it would be for anything you've posted. If not, why not?

Again, if anecdotal evidence is valid, its just as valid for toddler's killing people as it would be for anything you've posted. If not, why not?


Why not...because I just gave you actual stats from the CDC......you know...actual numbers......
 
Cops: S.C. toddler finds gun; shoots grandmother in back

Cops: South Carolina toddler finds gun; shoots grandmother in back

Idaho woman shot dead by two-year-old son was nuclear scientist

Idaho woman shot dead by two-year-old son was successful nuclear scientist

Toddler who fatally shot himself ID'd

Toddler who fatally shot himself ID'd

Tragedy as boy, 3, dies after shooting himself in the head with loaded pistol he found in a closet

Three-year-old boy dies after shooting himself in the head with pistol

Toddler may have accidentally shot and killed his father, Alabama authorities say

Toddler may have accidentally shot and killed his father, Alabama authorities say


Toddler Wounds Both Parents With 1 Shot From Handgun

Toddler Wounds Both Parents With 1 Shot From Handgun

And that's just what I could find without a few minutes checking. Shall we look up road rage incidents with guns? How about murder suicides with guns? Domestic violence with guns? The murder of children with guns?

Again, if anecdotal evidence is valid, its just as valid for toddler's killing people as it would be for anything you've posted. If not, why not?


Again...don't ask a question you don't know the answer to.....

The murder of children with guns?

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

Kids murdered by guns....

under 1: 12
age 1-4: 39

age 5-14: 142

total gun murder of children.....193

Kids murdered by other means...

under 1: 270
age 1-4: 298
age 5-14: 135

murder of children by other means.....703

Now, if even if you include gun accidents into the total.....

you are still wrong....

Accidental death by gun for children....

under 1: 3
age 1-4: 27
age 5-14: 39

Total accidental gun death for kids 2013....69
 
2nd Amend.

thats great. 7 times a DGU happened in January 2016 that can be verified. Lets say there were at least 150 more DGUs. Hell lets say there were a thousand.

But there was (according to you) at least 123,270 in January alone. 1.5million divided by 365 days = forty one hundred PER DAY x 30 days in January = 123,000.

You are still a lot short. But thanks for trying.

Again I never said that DGUs dont happen. I just dont believe the frequency you claim is correct. Especially with no evidence of thousands per day happening.


I don't claim it....40 years of research claims it....including research conducted by anti gun researchers hired by bill clinton to dispute Kleck's number...they came up with 1.5 million.......

You can believe all you want...but actual research over 40 years shows you are wrong.
 
The UK's gun homicide rate is 0.06 per 100,000. Compared to the US with 3.55.

That's 1/60th our gun homicide rate. With one quarter our murder rate.

And your suggestion...is they become more like us? Why would they want to do that?


No....I would suggest that they allow people who don't use guns to commit crime to have access to guns to keep from being stabbed and beaten at the hands of their criminals.....Britain is far more violent than we are...and unless you think getting stabbed, yet living, is better than using a gun to actually stop the stabbing in the first place....I would recommend you need help....

Why then has gun crime gone DOWN since handguns were banned? Why does Britian have 1/4 our murder rate? If more guns mean less crime.....why did less guns mean less crime?

And you realize that the UK and US measure 'violent crime' very differently. With 'violent crime' as measured by the FBI being murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. While 'violent crime' in the UK includes crimes against the person,” including simple assaults, all robberies, and all sexual offenses.

With only 1 in 4 of the sexual offenses listed in British violent crime stats being forcible rapes. Where *all* sexual offenses listed in FBI violent crime states being forcible rapes.

It goes on as you look at what Britian is actually measuring. With only 1/2 of 'violent crime' in Britian involving any injury. In Britain, simple harassment would be considered a violent crime. Possessing a knife when commiting a crime is considered a violent crime. Not using the knife. Simply having it on you. Causing public alarm would be considered a violent crime.

Where violent crime in the US remains only murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.

Why then has gun crime gone DOWN since handguns were banned? Why does Britian have 1/4 our murder rate? If more guns mean less crime.....why did less guns mean less crime?


Again....can you explain why gun murder in the United States has been going down as more Americans own and carry guns?

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

And here is the FBI table 8……it is a great table because it goes back4 years to show the rates of decrease….

2014 table…..

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

From 2014…..and I added 2011……

2006

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

2006 fbi table 8

Murder by firearm….

2006-- 10,225
2007 10,129
2008-- 9,528
2009-- 9,199
2010- 8,874
2011-- 8,653
2012-- 8,897
2013-- 8,454
2014-- 8,124
 
And that's just what I could find without a few minutes checking. Shall we look up road rage incidents with guns? How about murder suicides with guns? Domestic violence with guns? The murder of children with guns?



I hate to tell you this sky. But those gun tragedies you listed. they dont mean much to a person who is consumed with the fear that without a gun, they are sure to be the victum of violent crime.

I wish all those unnecessay deaths did mean something to a gun nutter. But they dont. Even when one of their own kind does something stupid with a gun its cool.

think of the gun shop shooting recently.
there was no problem there. Well except for the gun store owner and son getting killed.

But hey, at least they got to shoot someone before they died. All is well.


505 accidental gun deaths in 2013.

1,500,000 violent crimes stopped and lives saved by armed citizens...

505 vs. 1,500,000

Can you do the math and tell which number is bigger and by how much?
 
And that's just what I could find without a few minutes checking. Shall we look up road rage incidents with guns? How about murder suicides with guns? Domestic violence with guns? The murder of children with guns?



I hate to tell you this sky. But those gun tragedies you listed. they dont mean much to a person who is consumed with the fear that without a gun, they are sure to be the victum of violent crime.

I wish all those unnecessay deaths did mean something to a gun nutter. But they dont. Even when one of their own kind does something stupid with a gun its cool.

think of the gun shop shooting recently.
there was no problem there. Well except for the gun store owner and son getting killed.

But hey, at least they got to shoot someone before they died. All is well.


Sadly....you have no idea what you are talking about......you only see what you see in the news...and that is very little reality, truth or facts on this issue.........

Here you go....some more....

Yes....this woman wakes up at 6.am. to be pistol whipped by 3 armed home invaders.....while her 2 children are sleeping. She manages to get to her pistol and shoots the a******s and they run. She manages to hit at least one them who apparently assumed room temperature.

Too bad she had that gun. Now that poor, violent sociopath was killed. It is really a shame when 3 gun toting, violent sociopaths can't enter a home at 6 a.m., pistol whip the woman in the home, and who knows what else they planned, and without getting shot at. Something really needs to be done....she should never have had that gun in the first place...I am sure had she not had that gun.....and other than the pistol whipping, these 3 violent sociopaths meant her no harm.....er.....other than the pistol whipping......

What kind of country do we live in when even violent sociopaths aren't safe from gun violence....?

DGU of the Day: Trotwood Ohio Woman Defeats Three Home Invaders - The Truth About Guns

Three men break into a home in Trotwood, Ohio. [Click here to watch the video.] They’re all armed. It is before 6 am, just three days after Christmas. One of the men is armed with a Tec-9 pistol. He enters last. The other two hold what appear to be conventional semi-auto pistols. They bypass two sleeping children to find the mother. The surveillance video shows the three following the mother after they pistol whipped her in the laundry room.

The man directly behind her has the Tec-9. Presumably holds her at gunpoint while the other two attempt to drag off a safe, in a room with two more children. While the two men are occupied with the safe, the woman breaks free from her captor, accesses a hidden pistol, and starts to fire.

All three run, but the Tec-9 gunman, Azikiwe Presley, is mortally wounded. His body is found 100 yards from the house. From wdtn.com:

“I got my gun and I started shooting and they ran,” the female caller told dispatchers. “They all three had guns, I’m confused … they must not have had bullets because after I pulled the trigger they just took off, instead of firing back. I don’t know if I hit one or not, I don’t see blood anywhere.”

In this case, the recipient of female dedication to protecting innocent life ran a hundred yards and died. It is not uncommon for a man who is fatally shot to run that far, even with a heart/lung shot. As he was likely the one holding the woman at gunpoint, and the closest, greatest, threat with the Tec-9, it is not surprising that he drew the lethal ticket. Whether through choice or happenstance, the mother made the right tactical decision.


Now....here is the thing.....the gun grabbers on U.S. will first tell us that this never happens.

Next they will tell us that the defender with a gun will never be able to actually use the gun because they aren't Navy Seals.

Next they will say, there is no way a good woman with a gun will ever win because she will be easily disarmed.

So......3 men with guns grab a woman with the element of surprise. They hit her, probably injuring her. She manages to get her gun and shoot the three of them out of her house killing one of the a******s in the process.........and I didn't see anywhere in the article where she was the first woman Navy Seal.

************************
Homeowner Stays Armed In The House — Finds Knife-Wielding Man Inside And It Turns Out Great!

WILLMAR, MINNESOTA — A Willmar homeowner returned home to find a man wielding a knife in the middle of his living room. Using his pistol, which he was licensed to carry, he held the suspect at gunpoint and called 911. During the encounter, he allowed the suspect to leave after putting his buck knife down. Police caught up to the suspect, 37-year-old by the name of Shane Fellers. He was found inside a vehicle being operated by an unknown woman. Both were taken into custody and, according to the West Central Tribune, Fellers was held on a $70,000 unconditional bail for first degree burglary and burglary with a dangerous weapon. He also allegedly supplied the police officer with an incorrect name when he was initially apprehended — tacking on an additional misdemeanor.**********************
Just saw this on the news....Predfan posted it in the firearms thread but this is about the owner of the store.....on the local news he thanked the new concealed carry law and the fact that his employee is a concealed carry permit holder.......I never thought I would see this in Chicago....


T-Mobile store employee shoots 2 armed robbery suspects near 95th, Jeffrey

The T-Mobile store in the 2000-block of East 95th St. was left riddled with bullet holes. If not for the employee carrying a weapon with a concealed carry license, the manager of the store says he might be telling a different story.

"I think concealed carry is a great opportunity for managers, workers, employees to protect themselves in these cases. And our employee did a great job to protect themselves and the other employee," said Neil Tadros, store manager.

He says two men entered the store and acted like they were shopping for phones for a few minutes, then pulled out guns.

One employee ran to the back to call for help while the other pulled out his own gun and fired at the two suspects. He hit one of them in the groin and the arm, and the other in the abdomen and the arm.

The men ran from the store with the employee chasing them, on the phone giving a description to police.

The suspects then drove to a nearby hospital where police took them into custody.

Neighbors say the cell phone store has been robbed several times in the last month. Ed Brown was working in the salon next door.



We need more of these stories and then the criminals will start breaking into stores when no one is in them...that way they won't get shot.....

--------------
Concealed Nation Fan Fends Off Three Home Invaders With M&P Shield

A father and son successfully fought off three home invaders in an early morning all-out fight for survival. Columbus police confirm that there was a home invasion in vicinity of 2:30 am where three suspected attackers kicked in the front door and immediately set to assaulting the son who was first to respond. Thankfully, his father was in the other room and able to flush out the attackers — using nothing less than his future everyday carry pistol, the M&P Shield.

“I come out and this one little one come tried to attack me and I took him out right away, one in the white shirt tried attacking me from the side, tried choking me and that kind of stuff,” says Shawn Howell, “Next thing you know he loses power and I jump up to get up and ready to start cleaning clocks but I just darted into my room… I come out and they were flying out the door so fast, I never seen anybody run so fast in my life… they knew what was coming,they knew I was going for a gun.”

According to both the victims’ testimony and police statements released through Channel 48 – Nebraska, the attackers fled before the future-concealed carrier could put bullets on target but he allegedly pursued them to their vehicle to “mark the truck”.

Both victims were transported to a nearby hospital where they were treated for superficial wounds sustained during the assault. Both the father and son were attending a concealed carry course to get their concealed carry permits and neither were expecting an attack of this magnitude to occur in their home.


---------


Burglars call 911 on themselves as homeowner holds them at gunpoint

A pair of men who were breaking into a Woodland, Washington, home Monday night got quite a scare when the owner of the house caught them redhanded.

Bill Lahti was surprised to find his home had been burglarized last week, partly because the home, which belonged to Lahti’s great-grandparents years ago and was handed down to him, isn’t exactly in an easy to get to location. The rural property has been dubbed by the Lahti family as “the hill,” and given the home’s history, Lahti was especially appalled at the break-in.

“I kept coming back periodically to check in,” Lahti told KATU. “So, Monday night, I roll up and there’s their truck backed up to the front door in the yard. (The) door was about – probably – four inches open. I could see the light through there. So, I came out there, jumped out of my truck, kicked the door open and there they were.”

Lahti told the two men to get down on their knees as he held them at gunpoint. He was going to call the police on them, but Lahti couldn’t get his phone to work. With his gun still trained on them, he instructed the crooks to make the call themselves. With few options, the suspects complied.

-----



Concealed Carrier Holds Burglar At Gunpoint With Her FNX .45

CLEVELAND, TENNESSEE — A woman successfully subdued a would-be burglar outside her home using her FNX .45. The suspect, James Jeffrey Dunn, was allegedly trying to break in through her front door late at night. She got her handgun and confronted the burglar, according to WRCB. Once at the doorway, she yelled through the door for him to stay put and not move. Moments later, she confronted him head-on — handgun drawn and ready to go.

via WRCB

“I tried to order him to stay right where he was at and I pointed the gun at him and I came running off the porch and I came within 10 feet of him and he laid the bicycle down and he crumpled on top of the bicycle,” she says.

She held him at gunpoint until Cleveland Police arrived and arrested Dunn, 35, on charges of aggravated burglary, theft, and burglary of a motor vehicle. Police note that Dunn had an arrest sheet tallying over 40 charges — the most recent being only 6 hours prior to his attempted burglary of this concealed carrier.

“We went over this when we got my concealed carry permit, these types of scenarios. But I had already put that gun up and ever taken it out since, you know?” she says. “Maybe to go the range once.”

When we talk about the new generation of concealed carriers, let’s take a good long look at the realities these people are facing: hardened, career criminals unafraid to bust through the door or do damage to private property and persons. It’s a good thing this woman had the proper training she needed and the right equipment.




---------------------------------

Lancaster Woman Scares Off Bat-Wielding Attackers By Pulling Gun On Them

LANCASTER, Ohio - It happened along a walking path in Lancaster.

Dinah Burns is licensed to carry a concealed gun, but she'd only recently started taking her weapon while walking her dog.

Based on what happened, it looks like she'll make a point of carrying from now on.

"I think if they'd gotten any closer, I probably would have fired,” said Burns.

It was Monday when Burns was on a footpath near Sanderson Elementary School.

"Two gentlemen came out of the woods, one holding a baseball bat, and said 'You're coming with us'."

The men weren't deterred by Dinah's dog Gracie.

"I said, 'Well, what do you want?,' and as I was saying that I reached in to my pocket and slipped my gun out, slipped the safety off as I pulled it out. As I was doing that the other gentleman came toward me and raised the baseball bat. And, I pointed the gun at them and said, 'I have this and I'm not afraid to use it.'"

The men took off and so far have eluded police. Dinah posted about the incident on Facebook to alert friends and neighbors, to criticism by some.

"Most of the males' opinion was, 'Why didn't you shoot them?'"

Easy to second-guess a decision made under pressure, based on her concealed carry training, and police agree.

"To get out of a situation, back out, get out of it as much as you can without having to discharge your firearm."

"I will say it's a good thing to go from a place of danger to a place of safety, however you get that done,” said Sgt. Matt Chambers, Lancaster Police.

"Very thankful that it turned out the way it did, and hope it doesn't happen again, but I will be prepared."


NRA-ILA | Armed homeowner scares off attacker, KTVA, Anchorage, Alaska 11/13/15

A homeowner was in their house in Anchorage, Alaska when they heard a knock at the door. The homeowner retrieved a gun and went to answer the door. Upon opening the door, an intruder pepper-sprayed the homeowner, prompting the homeowner to fire at the criminal. The attacker fled the scene. (KTVA, Anchorage, Alaska 11/13/15)

---------

NRA-ILA | Elderly couple fights off real monsters on Halloween, Helena-Arkansas.com, Helena, Ark. 11/01/15

An elderly couple were at home Halloween night, when the doorbell rang. Prepared to hand out candy to trick-or-treaters, the wife opened the door to find four armed robbers, at least two of whom were armed with guns.

The robbers forced their way inside the home, where the husband was sitting in a recliner. Upon learning of the home invasion, the husband retrieved a gun and fired at the criminals, prompting the home invaders to flee. (Helena-Arkansas.com, Helena, Ark. 11/01/15)

-----
 
don't claim it....40 years of research claims it....including research conducted by anti gun researchers hired by bill clinton to dispute Kleck's number...they came up with 1.5 million.......



Whether you made the claim matters not. You believe it. And have no evidence to back up your beliefs.

BtW. there have been LOts of studies on a variety of topics that have been shown to be incorrect.

When you look at the pure math of your claim, you can start to understand the pure bullshit it represents.

You have tried to respond to my requests of evidence of DGUs. And that was good of you.

But you have posting NOtHING to substantiate a claim of over four thousand DGUs PER DAY. Nothing.

On top of that, by your own admission crime is down.

Still, forty years ago was an entirely different time. But even with decreasing crime, you still believe over 4000 DGUs happen each and every day. Strange.

Be nice if you or someone else could PROVE it.
 
2nd Amend.

thats great. 7 times a DGU happened in January 2016 that can be verified. Lets say there were at least 150 more DGUs. Hell lets say there were a thousand.

But there was (according to you) at least 123,270 in January alone. 1.5million divided by 365 days = forty one hundred PER DAY x 30 days in January = 123,000.

You are still a lot short. But thanks for trying.

Again I never said that DGUs dont happen. I just dont believe the frequency you claim is correct. Especially with no evidence of thousands per day happening.

7 times a DGU happened in January 2016 that can be verified.

No....those are stories that were interesting enough to make news.......all the stories where the gun owner dispalyed a weapon and the criminals ran away......for the most part those are unreported, or don't make the local news.....

Then you have the ones where they hold the criminal for police...also don't make the news......

To make the 20 minutes of news on television...you need a body on the ground.....
 
don't claim it....40 years of research claims it....including research conducted by anti gun researchers hired by bill clinton to dispute Kleck's number...they came up with 1.5 million.......



Whether you made the claim matters not. You believe it. And have no evidence to back up your beliefs.

BtW. there have been LOts of studies on a variety of topics that have been shown to be incorrect.

When you look at the pure math of your claim, you can start to understand the pure bullshit it represents.

You have tried to respond to my requests of evidence of DGUs. And that was good of you.

But you have posting NOtHING to substantiate a claim of over four thousand DGUs PER DAY. Nothing.

On top of that, by your own admission crime is down.

Still, forty years ago was an entirely different time. But even with decreasing crime, you still believe over 4000 DGUs happen each and every day. Strange.

Be nice if you or someone else could PROVE it.


Again....you say that actual research is a lie, but what you "feel" is truth. And you call what I post strange. A country of over 320 million people, with over 13 million carrying guns every day and over 90 million homes with guns in them.........keep telling yourself that the numbers are wrong........I'll stick with 40 years of actual research conducted by oth private and government researchers, many of them openly hostile to gun ownership......
 
The UK's gun homicide rate is 0.06 per 100,000. Compared to the US with 3.55.

That's 1/60th our gun homicide rate. With one quarter our murder rate.

And your suggestion...is they become more like us? Why would they want to do that?


No....I would suggest that they allow people who don't use guns to commit crime to have access to guns to keep from being stabbed and beaten at the hands of their criminals.....Britain is far more violent than we are...and unless you think getting stabbed, yet living, is better than using a gun to actually stop the stabbing in the first place....I would recommend you need help....

Why then has gun crime gone DOWN since handguns were banned? Why does Britian have 1/4 our murder rate? If more guns mean less crime.....why did less guns mean less crime?

And you realize that the UK and US measure 'violent crime' very differently. With 'violent crime' as measured by the FBI being murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. While 'violent crime' in the UK includes crimes against the person,” including simple assaults, all robberies, and all sexual offenses.

With only 1 in 4 of the sexual offenses listed in British violent crime stats being forcible rapes. Where *all* sexual offenses listed in FBI violent crime states being forcible rapes.

It goes on as you look at what Britian is actually measuring. With only 1/2 of 'violent crime' in Britian involving any injury. In Britain, simple harassment would be considered a violent crime. Possessing a knife when commiting a crime is considered a violent crime. Not using the knife. Simply having it on you. Causing public alarm would be considered a violent crime.

Where violent crime in the US remains only murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.


Hmmmm....if they confiscated guns...why are gun crime and homicides up in Britain....they don't even have obama releasing felons, letting in drug gangs, and reducing gun crime prosecutions....

From Thursday, January 21, 2016......

Homicides in England and Wales up 14%

The police-recorded crime figures include a 9% rise in knife crime and a 4% rise in gun crime, which are thought to reflect a rise in gang violence largely in London and Manchester.

The rise in gun crime is the first recorded for eight years and includes a 10% rise in London.
The official statisticians say that a 36% rise in sexual offences, including the highest number of rapes since 2003 – at 33,341 – reflect a greater willingness of victims to come forward to report such crimes rather than a real surge in attacks.
 
The UK's gun homicide rate is 0.06 per 100,000. Compared to the US with 3.55.

That's 1/60th our gun homicide rate. With one quarter our murder rate.

And your suggestion...is they become more like us? Why would they want to do that?


No....I would suggest that they allow people who don't use guns to commit crime to have access to guns to keep from being stabbed and beaten at the hands of their criminals.....Britain is far more violent than we are...and unless you think getting stabbed, yet living, is better than using a gun to actually stop the stabbing in the first place....I would recommend you need help....

Why then has gun crime gone DOWN since handguns were banned? Why does Britian have 1/4 our murder rate? If more guns mean less crime.....why did less guns mean less crime?

And you realize that the UK and US measure 'violent crime' very differently. With 'violent crime' as measured by the FBI being murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. While 'violent crime' in the UK includes crimes against the person,” including simple assaults, all robberies, and all sexual offenses.

With only 1 in 4 of the sexual offenses listed in British violent crime stats being forcible rapes. Where *all* sexual offenses listed in FBI violent crime states being forcible rapes.

It goes on as you look at what Britian is actually measuring. With only 1/2 of 'violent crime' in Britian involving any injury. In Britain, simple harassment would be considered a violent crime. Possessing a knife when commiting a crime is considered a violent crime. Not using the knife. Simply having it on you. Causing public alarm would be considered a violent crime.

Where violent crime in the US remains only murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.


Hmmmm....if they confiscated guns...why are gun crime and homicides up in Britain....they don't even have obama releasing felons, letting in drug gangs, and reducing gun crime prosecutions....

From Thursday, January 21, 2016......

Homicides in England and Wales up 14%

The police-recorded crime figures include a 9% rise in knife crime and a 4% rise in gun crime, which are thought to reflect a rise in gang violence largely in London and Manchester.

The rise in gun crime is the first recorded for eight years and includes a 10% rise in London.
The official statisticians say that a 36% rise in sexual offences, including the highest number of rapes since 2003 – at 33,341 – reflect a greater willingness of victims to come forward to report such crimes rather than a real surge in attacks.

If more guns equal less crime, why does Britian have fewer guns.....but a fraction of our murder and gun homicide? With 1/4 the murder and 1/60th the gun homicide?

How high would Britian's gun violence have to rise before it approached even half of what we have now?

And your solution is MORE guns? Why would they ever want to do that?
 
Last edited:
The UK's gun homicide rate is 0.06 per 100,000. Compared to the US with 3.55.

That's 1/60th our gun homicide rate. With one quarter our murder rate.

And your suggestion...is they become more like us? Why would they want to do that?


No....I would suggest that they allow people who don't use guns to commit crime to have access to guns to keep from being stabbed and beaten at the hands of their criminals.....Britain is far more violent than we are...and unless you think getting stabbed, yet living, is better than using a gun to actually stop the stabbing in the first place....I would recommend you need help....

Why then has gun crime gone DOWN since handguns were banned? Why does Britian have 1/4 our murder rate? If more guns mean less crime.....why did less guns mean less crime?

And you realize that the UK and US measure 'violent crime' very differently. With 'violent crime' as measured by the FBI being murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. While 'violent crime' in the UK includes crimes against the person,” including simple assaults, all robberies, and all sexual offenses.

With only 1 in 4 of the sexual offenses listed in British violent crime stats being forcible rapes. Where *all* sexual offenses listed in FBI violent crime states being forcible rapes.

It goes on as you look at what Britian is actually measuring. With only 1/2 of 'violent crime' in Britian involving any injury. In Britain, simple harassment would be considered a violent crime. Possessing a knife when commiting a crime is considered a violent crime. Not using the knife. Simply having it on you. Causing public alarm would be considered a violent crime.

Where violent crime in the US remains only murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.


Hmmmm....if they confiscated guns...why are gun crime and homicides up in Britain....they don't even have obama releasing felons, letting in drug gangs, and reducing gun crime prosecutions....

From Thursday, January 21, 2016......

Homicides in England and Wales up 14%

The police-recorded crime figures include a 9% rise in knife crime and a 4% rise in gun crime, which are thought to reflect a rise in gang violence largely in London and Manchester.

The rise in gun crime is the first recorded for eight years and includes a 10% rise in London.
The official statisticians say that a 36% rise in sexual offences, including the highest number of rapes since 2003 – at 33,341 – reflect a greater willingness of victims to come forward to report such crimes rather than a real surge in attacks.

If more guns equal less crime, why does Britian have fewer guns.....but a fraction of our murder and gun homicide? With 1/4 the murder and 1/60th the gun homicide?

How high would Britian's gun violence have to rise before it approached even half of what we have now?

And your solution is MORE guns? Why would they ever want to do that?

If more guns equal less crime, why does Britian have fewer guns.....but a fraction of our murder and gun homicide? With 1/4 the murder and 1/60th the gun homicide?


No....Britain has the same number of homicides as it did before the gun ban....and more violent crime after the gun ban..........




Again....can you explain why gun murder in the United States has been going down as more Americans own and carry guns? in 2013 there were 320,000,000 guns in private hands....in 2014 there are now 357 million guns in private hands.....our gun murder rate has been going down steadily...as has our gun accident rate....


Please explain......

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

And here is the FBI table 8……it is a great table because it goes back4 years to show the rates of decrease….

2014 table…..

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

From 2014…..and I added 2011……

2006

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

2006 fbi table 8

Murder by firearm….

2006-- 10,225
2007 10,129
2008-- 9,528
2009-- 9,199
2010- 8,874
2011-- 8,653
2012-- 8,897
2013-- 8,454
2014-- 8,124
 
The UK's gun homicide rate is 0.06 per 100,000. Compared to the US with 3.55.

That's 1/60th our gun homicide rate. With one quarter our murder rate.

And your suggestion...is they become more like us? Why would they want to do that?


No....I would suggest that they allow people who don't use guns to commit crime to have access to guns to keep from being stabbed and beaten at the hands of their criminals.....Britain is far more violent than we are...and unless you think getting stabbed, yet living, is better than using a gun to actually stop the stabbing in the first place....I would recommend you need help....

Why then has gun crime gone DOWN since handguns were banned? Why does Britian have 1/4 our murder rate? If more guns mean less crime.....why did less guns mean less crime?

And you realize that the UK and US measure 'violent crime' very differently. With 'violent crime' as measured by the FBI being murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. While 'violent crime' in the UK includes crimes against the person,” including simple assaults, all robberies, and all sexual offenses.

With only 1 in 4 of the sexual offenses listed in British violent crime stats being forcible rapes. Where *all* sexual offenses listed in FBI violent crime states being forcible rapes.

It goes on as you look at what Britian is actually measuring. With only 1/2 of 'violent crime' in Britian involving any injury. In Britain, simple harassment would be considered a violent crime. Possessing a knife when commiting a crime is considered a violent crime. Not using the knife. Simply having it on you. Causing public alarm would be considered a violent crime.

Where violent crime in the US remains only murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.


Hmmmm....if they confiscated guns...why are gun crime and homicides up in Britain....they don't even have obama releasing felons, letting in drug gangs, and reducing gun crime prosecutions....

From Thursday, January 21, 2016......

Homicides in England and Wales up 14%

The police-recorded crime figures include a 9% rise in knife crime and a 4% rise in gun crime, which are thought to reflect a rise in gang violence largely in London and Manchester.

The rise in gun crime is the first recorded for eight years and includes a 10% rise in London.
The official statisticians say that a 36% rise in sexual offences, including the highest number of rapes since 2003 – at 33,341 – reflect a greater willingness of victims to come forward to report such crimes rather than a real surge in attacks.

If more guns equal less crime, why does Britian have fewer guns.....but a fraction of our murder and gun homicide? With 1/4 the murder and 1/60th the gun homicide?

How high would Britian's gun violence have to rise before it approached even half of what we have now?

And your solution is MORE guns? Why would they ever want to do that?


Britain confiscated their guns and only allow a few lucky people to have hunting shotguns.....and their gun murder rate remained the same, and their violence rate went sky high....

Sooooo...what did they get exactly for getting rid of their guns? And their gun violence rate wasn't high before the confiscation.........it was always very low because their criminals just don't murder each other as often as our criminals do.....
 
The UK's gun homicide rate is 0.06 per 100,000. Compared to the US with 3.55.

That's 1/60th our gun homicide rate. With one quarter our murder rate.

And your suggestion...is they become more like us? Why would they want to do that?


No....I would suggest that they allow people who don't use guns to commit crime to have access to guns to keep from being stabbed and beaten at the hands of their criminals.....Britain is far more violent than we are...and unless you think getting stabbed, yet living, is better than using a gun to actually stop the stabbing in the first place....I would recommend you need help....

Why then has gun crime gone DOWN since handguns were banned? Why does Britian have 1/4 our murder rate? If more guns mean less crime.....why did less guns mean less crime?

And you realize that the UK and US measure 'violent crime' very differently. With 'violent crime' as measured by the FBI being murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. While 'violent crime' in the UK includes crimes against the person,” including simple assaults, all robberies, and all sexual offenses.

With only 1 in 4 of the sexual offenses listed in British violent crime stats being forcible rapes. Where *all* sexual offenses listed in FBI violent crime states being forcible rapes.

It goes on as you look at what Britian is actually measuring. With only 1/2 of 'violent crime' in Britian involving any injury. In Britain, simple harassment would be considered a violent crime. Possessing a knife when commiting a crime is considered a violent crime. Not using the knife. Simply having it on you. Causing public alarm would be considered a violent crime.

Where violent crime in the US remains only murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.


Hmmmm....if they confiscated guns...why are gun crime and homicides up in Britain....they don't even have obama releasing felons, letting in drug gangs, and reducing gun crime prosecutions....

From Thursday, January 21, 2016......

Homicides in England and Wales up 14%

The police-recorded crime figures include a 9% rise in knife crime and a 4% rise in gun crime, which are thought to reflect a rise in gang violence largely in London and Manchester.

The rise in gun crime is the first recorded for eight years and includes a 10% rise in London.
The official statisticians say that a 36% rise in sexual offences, including the highest number of rapes since 2003 – at 33,341 – reflect a greater willingness of victims to come forward to report such crimes rather than a real surge in attacks.

If more guns equal less crime, why does Britian have fewer guns.....but a fraction of our murder and gun homicide? With 1/4 the murder and 1/60th the gun homicide?

How high would Britian's gun violence have to rise before it approached even half of what we have now?

And your solution is MORE guns? Why would they ever want to do that?


And did you fail to read this post.......


Homicides in England and Wales up 14%

The police-recorded crime figures include a 9% rise in knife crime and a 4% rise in gun crime, which are thought to reflect a rise in gang violence largely in London and Manchester.

The rise in gun crime is the first recorded for eight years and includes a 10% rise in London.
The official statisticians say that a 36% rise in sexual offences, including the highest number of rapes since 2003 – at 33,341 – reflect a greater willingness of victims to come forward to report such crimes rather than a real surge in attacks.


How is that possible......considering they confiscated their guns?
 
The UK's gun homicide rate is 0.06 per 100,000. Compared to the US with 3.55.

That's 1/60th our gun homicide rate. With one quarter our murder rate.

And your suggestion...is they become more like us? Why would they want to do that?


No....I would suggest that they allow people who don't use guns to commit crime to have access to guns to keep from being stabbed and beaten at the hands of their criminals.....Britain is far more violent than we are...and unless you think getting stabbed, yet living, is better than using a gun to actually stop the stabbing in the first place....I would recommend you need help....

Why then has gun crime gone DOWN since handguns were banned? Why does Britian have 1/4 our murder rate? If more guns mean less crime.....why did less guns mean less crime?

And you realize that the UK and US measure 'violent crime' very differently. With 'violent crime' as measured by the FBI being murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. While 'violent crime' in the UK includes crimes against the person,” including simple assaults, all robberies, and all sexual offenses.

With only 1 in 4 of the sexual offenses listed in British violent crime stats being forcible rapes. Where *all* sexual offenses listed in FBI violent crime states being forcible rapes.

It goes on as you look at what Britian is actually measuring. With only 1/2 of 'violent crime' in Britian involving any injury. In Britain, simple harassment would be considered a violent crime. Possessing a knife when commiting a crime is considered a violent crime. Not using the knife. Simply having it on you. Causing public alarm would be considered a violent crime.

Where violent crime in the US remains only murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.


Hmmmm....if they confiscated guns...why are gun crime and homicides up in Britain....they don't even have obama releasing felons, letting in drug gangs, and reducing gun crime prosecutions....

From Thursday, January 21, 2016......

Homicides in England and Wales up 14%

The police-recorded crime figures include a 9% rise in knife crime and a 4% rise in gun crime, which are thought to reflect a rise in gang violence largely in London and Manchester.

The rise in gun crime is the first recorded for eight years and includes a 10% rise in London.
The official statisticians say that a 36% rise in sexual offences, including the highest number of rapes since 2003 – at 33,341 – reflect a greater willingness of victims to come forward to report such crimes rather than a real surge in attacks.

If more guns equal less crime, why does Britian have fewer guns.....but a fraction of our murder and gun homicide? With 1/4 the murder and 1/60th the gun homicide?

How high would Britian's gun violence have to rise before it approached even half of what we have now?

And your solution is MORE guns? Why would they ever want to do that?


Britain confiscated their guns and only allow a few lucky people to have hunting shotguns.....and their gun murder rate remained the same, and their violence rate went sky high....

Hand gun were largely made illegal in 1997. Violence rates declined.

With 1/60th the gun violence deaths and 1/4 the murder rates that we have here.....why would they want more guns?
 
No....I would suggest that they allow people who don't use guns to commit crime to have access to guns to keep from being stabbed and beaten at the hands of their criminals.....Britain is far more violent than we are...and unless you think getting stabbed, yet living, is better than using a gun to actually stop the stabbing in the first place....I would recommend you need help....

Why then has gun crime gone DOWN since handguns were banned? Why does Britian have 1/4 our murder rate? If more guns mean less crime.....why did less guns mean less crime?

And you realize that the UK and US measure 'violent crime' very differently. With 'violent crime' as measured by the FBI being murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. While 'violent crime' in the UK includes crimes against the person,” including simple assaults, all robberies, and all sexual offenses.

With only 1 in 4 of the sexual offenses listed in British violent crime stats being forcible rapes. Where *all* sexual offenses listed in FBI violent crime states being forcible rapes.

It goes on as you look at what Britian is actually measuring. With only 1/2 of 'violent crime' in Britian involving any injury. In Britain, simple harassment would be considered a violent crime. Possessing a knife when commiting a crime is considered a violent crime. Not using the knife. Simply having it on you. Causing public alarm would be considered a violent crime.

Where violent crime in the US remains only murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.


Hmmmm....if they confiscated guns...why are gun crime and homicides up in Britain....they don't even have obama releasing felons, letting in drug gangs, and reducing gun crime prosecutions....

From Thursday, January 21, 2016......

Homicides in England and Wales up 14%

The police-recorded crime figures include a 9% rise in knife crime and a 4% rise in gun crime, which are thought to reflect a rise in gang violence largely in London and Manchester.

The rise in gun crime is the first recorded for eight years and includes a 10% rise in London.
The official statisticians say that a 36% rise in sexual offences, including the highest number of rapes since 2003 – at 33,341 – reflect a greater willingness of victims to come forward to report such crimes rather than a real surge in attacks.

If more guns equal less crime, why does Britian have fewer guns.....but a fraction of our murder and gun homicide? With 1/4 the murder and 1/60th the gun homicide?

How high would Britian's gun violence have to rise before it approached even half of what we have now?

And your solution is MORE guns? Why would they ever want to do that?


Britain confiscated their guns and only allow a few lucky people to have hunting shotguns.....and their gun murder rate remained the same, and their violence rate went sky high....

Hand gun were largely made illegal in 1997. Violence rates declined.

With 1/60th the gun violence deaths and 1/4 the murder rates that we have here.....why would they want more guns?

First...

Again....can you explain why gun murder in the United States has been going down as more Americans own and carry guns? in 2013 there were 320,000,000 guns in private hands....in 2014 there are now 357 million guns in private hands.....our gun murder rate has been going down steadily...as has our gun accident rate....


Please explain......

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

And here is the FBI table 8……it is a great table because it goes back4 years to show the rates of decrease….

2014 table…..

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

From 2014…..and I added 2011……

2006

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

2006 fbi table 8

Murder by firearm….

2006-- 10,225
2007 10,129
2008-- 9,528
2009-- 9,199
2010- 8,874
2011-- 8,653
2012-- 8,897
2013-- 8,454
2014-- 8,124
 
The UK's gun homicide rate is 0.06 per 100,000. Compared to the US with 3.55.

That's 1/60th our gun homicide rate. With one quarter our murder rate.

And your suggestion...is they become more like us? Why would they want to do that?


No....I would suggest that they allow people who don't use guns to commit crime to have access to guns to keep from being stabbed and beaten at the hands of their criminals.....Britain is far more violent than we are...and unless you think getting stabbed, yet living, is better than using a gun to actually stop the stabbing in the first place....I would recommend you need help....

Why then has gun crime gone DOWN since handguns were banned? Why does Britian have 1/4 our murder rate? If more guns mean less crime.....why did less guns mean less crime?

And you realize that the UK and US measure 'violent crime' very differently. With 'violent crime' as measured by the FBI being murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. While 'violent crime' in the UK includes crimes against the person,” including simple assaults, all robberies, and all sexual offenses.

With only 1 in 4 of the sexual offenses listed in British violent crime stats being forcible rapes. Where *all* sexual offenses listed in FBI violent crime states being forcible rapes.

It goes on as you look at what Britian is actually measuring. With only 1/2 of 'violent crime' in Britian involving any injury. In Britain, simple harassment would be considered a violent crime. Possessing a knife when commiting a crime is considered a violent crime. Not using the knife. Simply having it on you. Causing public alarm would be considered a violent crime.

Where violent crime in the US remains only murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.


Hmmmm....if they confiscated guns...why are gun crime and homicides up in Britain....they don't even have obama releasing felons, letting in drug gangs, and reducing gun crime prosecutions....

From Thursday, January 21, 2016......

Homicides in England and Wales up 14%

The police-recorded crime figures include a 9% rise in knife crime and a 4% rise in gun crime, which are thought to reflect a rise in gang violence largely in London and Manchester.

The rise in gun crime is the first recorded for eight years and includes a 10% rise in London.
The official statisticians say that a 36% rise in sexual offences, including the highest number of rapes since 2003 – at 33,341 – reflect a greater willingness of victims to come forward to report such crimes rather than a real surge in attacks.

If more guns equal less crime, why does Britian have fewer guns.....but a fraction of our murder and gun homicide? With 1/4 the murder and 1/60th the gun homicide?

How high would Britian's gun violence have to rise before it approached even half of what we have now?

And your solution is MORE guns? Why would they ever want to do that?


And did you fail to read this post.......


Homicides in England and Wales up 14%

The police-recorded crime figures include a 9% rise in knife crime and a 4% rise in gun crime, which are thought to reflect a rise in gang violence largely in London and Manchester.

The rise in gun crime is the first recorded for eight years and includes a 10% rise in London.
The official statisticians say that a 36% rise in sexual offences, including the highest number of rapes since 2003 – at 33,341 – reflect a greater willingness of victims to come forward to report such crimes rather than a real surge in attacks.


How is that possible......considering they confiscated their guns?

Did you miss my reply?

How high would their murder and gun homicide rates have to rise before they were even half of what we have here?


Just give me a round number. And then tell me why they would want to be more like us.
 

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